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General Discussion  » Suspicious of all the bad reviews...

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205 posts found
  ihaveabeard

Novice Member

Joined: 10/20/05
Posts: 56

2/11/14 3:37:30 PM#181
Originally posted by himods
Originally posted by ihaveabeard
Originally posted by himods

...or here's another wild idea, maybe the press got so much shit after giving overly positive reviews to swtor and other crapgames, that they now try to earn back their readers trust by being overly critical.

 

But that would mean the gaming press is full of it and their reviews are worthless. And that just isn't the case, right?

My sarcasmo-meter just blew up.


Well, Sarcasmo is my super hero name...

  alterfenix

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 335

2/11/14 3:43:43 PM#182
Originally posted by Markusrind

First we have the game design released by the developers.

People didn't like their design and spoke up.

Others said "how can you not like the design before you play it"?

 

Then People start playing it in Beta.

 Bad reviews come out despite the NDA.  

Others said that "when the NDA is dropped the good reviews will come".

 

Then the NDA is dropped for the press for the first 15 levels.

The press say is isn't a great game.

Others say "they are only reviewing the first 15 levels, the rest of the game is great".

 

Anyone see a pattern here? Anyone want to guess what will happen when levels 16 and up are free of an NDA completely?

 

 

Honestly so far from ppl that actually enjoyed beta I've heard mostly that after level 15 game does not change so if someone does not enjoy the game this far they should drop it at this point.

Also I find it weird a bit:

- WAR mixed but I'd say generally in favour of the game

- Aion - same, possibly even more in favour of the game

- SWTOR - no comments here for obvious reason

- GW2 - same as above

- Rift - in general good, some claiming that refreshing and so on

- TESO - pretty much in every single review in past few days says all bad things. (I found exactly one where atuthor did admit that he enjoyed playing beta). Awful, boring, dusgusting, not immersive, shallow, just like any other - name it.

It's actually funny because getting player's reactions I find it that their reactions as a constrast are as always mixed - some hate it, some not decided and some loved betas so far - nothing different than in case of any other ne MMORPG on the market. No conspiration theory, just an observation.

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5789

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

2/11/14 3:45:09 PM#183
Originally posted by Dulu

Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

 

Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

 

And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

 

My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

Read all that is yellow. Read it a few times. Im talking specifically about GW2 here, not AoC and not Warhammer.

 

You are saying that almost no one enjoyed GW2, and at the same time you are saying that you personally enjoyed TESO, and you are comparing those two things. Everything is wrong with your comparison. GW2 servers are always heavy load, and full of people. Do i think TESO will be successful? if they fix it, yes. But stop writing this kind of stuff making it sound like your personal opinion and preference is bigger than the facts.

You think almost no one enjoyed GW2 because you read the people who dont like it and ignore anything about the people who do enjoy it because bad things always show up first. You gotta be more realistic. Its fine to dislike games, its not ok to make up stuff based on your own opinions to pass them as facts.

 

  sapphen

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 920

2/11/14 3:50:19 PM#184
Originally posted by jpnz
There is definitely a coordinate smear campaign that includes all mass media and all YouTube personalities. It spans thousands of people and countries.
Thanks Obama!


Now where is my tin foil hat?

Ohhh, that would make me angry.  Here I am disliking the game for free when I could get paid for it!

  psiic

Elite Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 705

2/11/14 3:51:09 PM#185
Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by psiic

I have see so called press lie their asses off about a piece of shit game to get us to buy it, but this is the first time I've seen press lying their asses off about a great game to try and get us not to buy it.

 

Frankly I think it is time for game devs to start re-evaluating who truly deserves to be considered press.

 

I think Angry Joe really states the real issue here. The ENTITLED mentality. 

 

Basically he states...

If ESO was a FREE game with this awesome engine, fantastic combat, superior graphics, and huge huge world, this would be the BEST game EVER!!

But because it's not FREE it sucks....

 

This whole entitled mentality that has become so prevalent  really pisses me off.

 

ESO is costing them a rather sizable investment, to provide a quality staff, and NOT to pink slip the whole dev team right after launch like EVERY F2P game has done costs money.

If you do not like it then go play one of the 100's of F2P games that you are bored with in two weeks, or raising hell because they have no support staff and you have to wait weeks to get an email answered.

Tons of us are excited over ESO and even more excited to be getting back to a sub based model so we do not have to put up with gold spammers, botters, hackers, chat spamming idiots, and entitled kiddies.

 

Yep. Considered press. What they are reviewing the game against.

And what they are reviewing the game against is a subscription based mmo. And the bulk of them are coming up with - I wouldn't call them bad reviews but simply so-so reviews. As you say Angry Joe said it would be great as a F2P game.

So basically AJs problem - and maybe some of the other reviewers as well - is the payment method. Now you talk about an entitled mentality. Well I think people should pay for games but they should also get what they pay for.

Zenimax - like lots of devs before them - are saying the sub is to provide new content. Yet it won't work out that way. The sub will hurt initial sales big time - no one expects TESO to sell tens of millions. Yet because of the investment it probably needs to sell high millions at least and then more still to make a profit.  

Pick your own numbers. If the game cost $150M and they make $30 from every sale that means they need 5M sales just to recover the cost. Ouch. Yes the base game costs c. $60 but in most countries 20% of that is tax and then there are retail or online costs e.g. Amazon's share, Visa / Paypal etc. Pick your own numbers but they need big sales. And a sub hurts sales. 

And when it doesn't sell 5M+ - because of the sub - what happens? Pink slips as you say. Your posts are probably helping to doom the long term future of the game. It will survive for sure with a loyal fanbase but not as it should.

The alternative. Doesn't have to be F2P. B2P + regular DLC. And if they don't have the DLC drops on day 1 reduce the size of the base game. cut 50% and simply sell a huge game rather than a gigantic one; sell the rest as 4 or 5 DLC drops at $15 or whatever. Doubles the price of the game in essence!

The history of all recent sub-based launches - going back years now - have ended with devs being moved. Maybe to a different game or given a pink slip. 

And if it was B2P I think the reviews would be much more positive. And Skyrim like sales would be possible.

First off thank you for the well thought out intelligently constructed rejoinder. 

You have some very good points, that truly do come down to box sales numbers.  Hopefully those numbers are better than projected.

If not,  I do see exactly what you are saying. I do not really see the dlc option being feasible considering the size and scope of the base game they are giving us with the initial purchase.  

They very well may have to supplement revenue with a cash shop addition.

I really would not be happy about it, but I would understand it and probably support it as well.

  Katilla

Novice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 641

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

2/11/14 3:52:08 PM#186
to put it simply, you can NEVER please the people on these forms.  They will always complain about every single game, even if it's amazing.  I don't regret my CE pre-order either.
  handlewithcare

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/14
Posts: 325

2/11/14 3:55:22 PM#187

I also decided today to get the imperial addition,its not necessary you get racial skills not class skills that are only for the imperial so that's not a big difference.

only thing I am not happy about and if people knew about this 6moths ago like when they went in a uproar about first and 3rd person view is that you cant swim underwater and that is just stuped all games have that so that is going to make the game feel a little cheapish but all and all I loved it.

its not a mmo its like skyrim online whish is mush better.

  Azmodeus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 138

2/11/14 4:01:03 PM#188
Originally posted by marganculos

are you all of you on crack or something??! BAD = BAD stop searching conspiracy in every fking review ... it's their opinion


if you want play it just buy this crap for + $150 per year and PLAY IT... if you don't want, like me and many other then don't buy it ... simple

 

Someone is super bitter!!  What free to play games are you playing so they can be labeled as "crap" ?    Please tell us!

 

  vzerov

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 120

2/11/14 4:12:41 PM#189
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by Dulu

Been on the MMO scene for a very long time, and I've seen companies like MMORPG.com and other review sites suck the **** of games that have been terrible, just because they have big names.

 

Age of Conan, Warhammer and Guild Wars 2 being the most notable. Anyone who was an MMO veteran when these games were releasing probably remembers thinking these games would be the next WoW, or the next Jesus Christ, etc. That's what the review companies were spouting.

 

And then you actually got to play the games... and yeah, we know the history.

 

My point is, why is it all of a sudden a game like ESO, which I thoroughly enjoy and think is so much better than anything that has released in years, is getting such terrible reviews, while games which almost no one enjoyed - received such AWESOME reviews?

Read all that is yellow. Read it a few times. Im talking specifically about GW2 here, not AoC and not Warhammer.

 

You are saying that almost no one enjoyed GW2, and at the same time you are saying that you personally enjoyed TESO, and you are comparing those two things. Everything is wrong with your comparison. GW2 servers are always heavy load, and full of people. Do i think TESO will be successful? if they fix it, yes. But stop writing this kind of stuff making it sound like your personal opinion and preference is bigger than the facts.

You think almost no one enjoyed GW2 because you read the people who dont like it and ignore anything about the people who do enjoy it because bad things always show up first. You gotta be more realistic. Its fine to dislike games, its not ok to make up stuff based on your own opinions to pass them as facts.

 

and what exactly does heavy load in gw2 means? since you can still log in to a server while its labled as "full", obviously the meaning of words might be different between us and the devs.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

2/11/14 4:35:03 PM#190
There is a difference between saying a particular game isn't worth a subscription, and saying no game is worth a subscription.  Any reviewer who is categorically opposed to subscriptions is probably going to give any game that has one a bad review, no matter how good it is.  And let's not kid ourselves, that is a category a fair number of reviewers seem to fall into.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Theodwulf

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 209

2/11/14 4:39:23 PM#191

 It would benefit a company  to hire some guys, lets call them "Viral marketing consultants" to say good things about their product and do a hatchet job on any and all naysayers. It is very easy to see how it would work. A couple of guys with a bunch of sock puppets could give the illusion of a positive consensus. This works better with "professionals" who are also paid shills and give some semblance of credibility and authority.

 

  Now on the flip side. Where is the pay off to doing a hatchet job on a game?  Getting people NOT to buy ESO doesn't mean they will rush out and buy a different  game and there is no way to get them to go to a specific game(ie the one that would benefit the reviewer).

 

  More likely than not the bad reviews, that weren't that bad, are an attempt by  industry journalists to regain their lost credibility for years of prostituting themselves out to game companies.

 

  If there is any doubt, wait a month AFTER launch to buy the game, by that point you will know for sure who is a shill and who is not:)

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

2/11/14 8:52:37 PM#192
Originally posted by Theodwulf

 It would benefit a company  to hire some guys, lets call them "Viral marketing consultants" to say good things about their product and do a hatchet job on any and all naysayers. It is very easy to see how it would work. A couple of guys with a bunch of sock puppets could give the illusion of a positive consensus. This works better with "professionals" who are also paid shills and give some semblance of credibility and authority.

  Now on the flip side. Where is the pay off to doing a hatchet job on a game?  Getting people NOT to buy ESO doesn't mean they will rush out and buy a different  game and there is no way to get them to go to a specific game(ie the one that would benefit the reviewer).

  More likely than not the bad reviews, that weren't that bad, are an attempt by  industry journalists to regain their lost credibility for years of prostituting themselves out to game companies.

  If there is any doubt, wait a month AFTER launch to buy the game, by that point you will know for sure who is a shill and who is not:)

Or, even better, ignore all the reviewers and play the game yourself when it does an open beta.  All a review can tell you is what somebody else thinks, and how is that remotely useful unless you have some reason to believe they think just like you do?

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  simon155

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/13
Posts: 22

2/11/14 10:05:55 PM#193

I have noticed a commonality. Most of the trolling threads seem to touch upon the monthly payment, claiming "It would be ok if it were free to play".

 

You'll most likely find most of the posters are hoping that if they bicker or complain enough about the game, somehow Zen will let them have it for free lol.

 

Not happening. They will have to find something else to play and moan about ;op

  Wolfhammer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 525

Bleh!

2/12/14 2:01:16 PM#194

I reckon half the bad mouthing of the game stems from a lot of people who can't afford to play it on release.  They haven' tested it but read crap from other haters who haven't tested and pass it on as gospel.

Personally I'm fine with the cost and sub, have beta'd the last couple of weekends and find it well worth it so will be pre-ordering.  Least we won't have to deal with the FTP entitlement crowd on release.

I'm looking forward to gaming with mature MMO fans.

/toodle-pip

  Lyrian

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/07
Posts: 254

2/12/14 2:18:56 PM#195

The reason why we aren't thrilled about ESO is because it is a purely content driven game which we feel is reminiscent of SWTOR's game play model, which while we enjoyed, did not last past the first month or two. Many of us feel let down in this having hoped that future games would avoid that trap. Many of us want a game we can consistently log into month after month, year after year and are beyond frustrated in seeing, to our eyes is a worse attempt at a content driven MMORPG than SWTOR was.

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1432

2/12/14 2:39:27 PM#196
Originally posted by Wolfhammer

I reckon half the bad mouthing of the game stems from a lot of people who can't afford to play it on release.  They haven' tested it but read crap from other haters who haven't tested and pass it on as gospel.

Personally I'm fine with the cost and sub, have beta'd the last couple of weekends and find it well worth it so will be pre-ordering.  Least we won't have to deal with the FTP entitlement crowd on release.

I'm looking forward to gaming with mature MMO fans.

/toodle-pip

WoW must be full of mature players then. A sub does not guarantee a "mature" set of players. 

Zenimax should dump the freeloading entitlement minded subscribers who think $15 should give them everything - and a stack of new content as well. Which I might add is a problem of developers own making. You get hundreds of hours in the core game for $60; the sub will give you lots of new content. Really? It never scales. Content costs money. 

And no I am not suggesting that the game F2P + cash shop but B2P + DLC. And if they need to hold back content to ensure they have several DLC drops good to go so be it. With the price of the core game broadly aligned to the price of the xpacs.

People "understood" the need for subs when servers, database software were expensive - the base price of the game wouldn't support the extra cost. Expensive servers, expensive database software, lots of techs were needed to turn the handles. That was 10+ years ago. Today it doesn't wash.  As a result mmos that have launched in the last several years have floundered. Sold millions maybe but not tens of millions. And hence the sub ends up trying to cover the shortfall. 

 

  muthax

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/15/05
Posts: 603

2/12/14 2:43:55 PM#197
Originally posted by gervaise1
 

 

People "understood" the need for subs when servers, database software were expensive - the base price of the game wouldn't support the extra cost. Expensive servers, expensive database software, lots of techs were needed to turn the handles. That was 10+ years ago. Today it doesn't wash.  As a result mmos that have launched in the last several years have floundered. Sold millions maybe but not tens of millions. And hence the sub ends up trying to cover the shortfall. 

 

I gather from this sentence that you have no experience working in a modern IT environment at an enterprise level

  Zeblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/10/06
Posts: 942

2/12/14 2:51:03 PM#198

Like so many others Dulu your picking the reviews you like and dislike.  Most dont  review a mmo based on if you like it or not.

Been in allot of the betas and most of what they say is true. It has nothing new to it. You can watch any video of game play and see quests are kiddish, crafting is easy, npc's just stand there waiting to die. Its not worth a monthly fee.

  simon155

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/13
Posts: 22

2/13/14 3:43:34 AM#199

Originally posted by Wolfhammer

I reckon half the bad mouthing of the game stems from a lot of people who can't afford to play it on release.  They haven' tested it but read crap from other haters who haven't tested and pass it on as gospel.

Personally I'm fine with the cost and sub, have beta'd the last couple of weekends and find it well worth it so will be pre-ordering.  Least we won't have to deal with the FTP entitlement crowd on release.

I'm looking forward to gaming with mature MMO fans.

/toodle-pip

I would have to agree. There does seem to be an underlying reference to monthly subscriptions in every case. Perhaps they don't want to admit to finding it hard to afford. I would have to agree though - very much looking forward to this one. It seems like the VAST majority in the betas are saying good things - there's only been a couple of whiners in the betas that I'm aware of, and despite their evident complaints, they have been there right up to the end... That should tell you something.

 

Originally posted by Lyrian

The reason why we aren't thrilled about ESO is because it is a purely content driven game which we feel is reminiscent of SWTOR's game play model, which while we enjoyed, did not last past the first month or two. Many of us feel let down in this having hoped that future games would avoid that trap. Many of us want a game we can consistently log into month after month, year after year and are beyond frustrated in seeing, to our eyes is a worse attempt at a content driven MMORPG than SWTOR was.

Is that the royal "we"? It's good to speak to the elected spokesman. Personally I didn't buy SWToR. It's one of the few I didn't bother with, on the basis I thought it wouldn't keep my interest for long. It's good to see confirmation this would have been the case. ESO on the other hand, I'm confident will keep my interest longer. Like I'd said before though, people look for different things in games. For me, and many beta testers, there seems to be a general consensus it's checked all our boxes. For yourself, who knows. Hang out for a game that fits your own needs then.

 

Originally posted by Zeblade

Like so many others Dulu your picking the reviews you like and dislike.  Most dont  review a mmo based on if you like it or not.

Been in allot of the betas and most of what they say is true. It has nothing new to it. You can watch any video of game play and see quests are kiddish, crafting is easy, npc's just stand there waiting to die. Its not worth a monthly fee.

Despite the general negativity, I'd have to agree with the first statement. My best advice would be as a rule - IGNORE reviews. I would hope the vast majority of us simply use reviews to get a peek at screenshots, and in most cases spend some time on the game sites after that, reading everything about the classes, abilities, game mechanics, how it plays, watching footage etc. All reviews do for me are tip me off about games I want to look into. Some of the best games get bad reviews, and lots of rubbish games get good reviews. You just have to keep an open mind, and consider what it is you individually like in a game.

 

  cakelizard

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/08
Posts: 61

2/13/14 4:25:05 AM#200

Besides the gimmick of being bale to use whatever weapons/armor ya wanna use, what does this game do that others havent?

 

Most  gaming sites are giving ESO negative reviews due to a lack of innovation, clunky controls, a simplified combat system (Console sacrifice ) and boring questing.  If this games your thing cool, no ones gonna change your mind and i hope ya have fun. But, for most people this game is a let down.

 

GW2 made people ask " whats worth 15 dollars a month?" and so far the content in this game doesnt justify it to themn And i think thats fair to be honest with you. The only MMO i think was worth 15 dollars a month was Asherons call, which they did fantastic world changing updates updates, seasonal updates  (snow in the winter etc), and just made you feel you really paid into new content.

 

Or maybe the lizard people running the banks and the NWO want this game to fail because it exposes the truth about 9/11.

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