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Camelot Unchained

Camelot Unchained 

General Discussion  » So glad Camelot Unchained will be limited to PvP only

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70 posts found
  Xirik

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 1699

What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets and lies!

2/09/14 8:16:55 PM#21
Originally posted by SuperNick
Originally posted by Xirik
Originally posted by SuperNick
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by SuperNick

http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/182013/5f5b3e88-650f-471f-ac14-ecee9f18b7ef.jpg

Btw, I noticed that you pulled that graphic image from a video that Andrew used to make a point about having massive amounts of players on the screen.  This was posted literally days after they announced the game.  So it has nothing to do with what the graphics of the final game will be like.  They basically slapped together the demo using  particle effects they used from an iPad game they made (March on Oz).  Andrew even specifically emphasized that this won't be the final graphics for the game.

I find it hilarious how haters latch on to something completely out of context to make some fake negative point about a game they decided to hate (for some stupid reason like QQing over no PvE).  I say 'hater' since any intelligent person would realize that it's WAAAAY too soon to judge on graphics.

You really expect the graphics to evolve that much beyond that? Some improved textures and better artwork but that engine is what it is: old.

I'd venture a guess to say it's the hero engine but who knows.

Seems more unrealistic to assume the game will evolve from that to some kinda modern day title.

 

How is that taking things out of context either? I was illustrating a point the engine is gonna be dated from the get go, which is usually what you come to expect from indie developers. That's usually a lot for anything but a niché community to accept.

you must be new.

All alpha games look like crap.  Look at the old beta footage from ESO that got leaked months ago. Compare it to what it is now.

but since you are new you are forgiven.

Do they? ESO looked great in early alpha, as did Star Citizen. Have those games improved? Sure, but to the lengths people seem to be expressing here? No chance.

You crack on though son, keep defending where those millions went to with this game.

/thread for me

gotten love people who can't defend there position and ditch.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/61613-What-i-hope-for-ARR-graphics

Jacobs must have ruined this kids childhood or touched him..

"You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach

  Satarious

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1045

 
OP  2/09/14 8:21:26 PM#22
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I think Mark Jacobs knows his target demographic and is focused on delivering a very targeted experience. From my perspective that is smart. This is the game I think hardcore rvr freaks will flock to. From all accounts it intends on delivering exactly what they're asking for it, how they're asking for it.

They could screw it up and I could be wrong, but of all the indie mmos, and especially KS projects, this is the one I expect to be most successful.

Completely agree.  There's a huge pent-up demand for an MMO with RvR done RIGHT free from the chains of PvE and instanced combat freaks.  That doesn't exist in the marketplace, currently.  There's a few differences between the ideal of this game and Planetside.  It's not going to be a twitchy shooter game for one thing.  For another, it's going to have an elaborate crafting system that should be the perfect respite from non-stop PvP when you need to take a break from time to time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  InporylemQQ

Tipster

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 165

2/09/14 8:25:30 PM#23

Pretty curious to see what kind of route they will take on their PvP development. Will it be the typical no risk zergfest that we have seen 20 million copies since wow. Or something that would have somekind of meaning like item drops etc.

I don't even count the respoint and safe zone zerging as a PvP anymore I can't stand a single game anymore which revolves around dying and instantly running back to the action from the closest respoint.

ArcheAge, Black Desert and Bless videos InporylemQQ Youtube

  Satarious

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1045

 
OP  2/09/14 8:31:55 PM#24
Originally posted by InporylemQQ

Pretty curious to see what kind of route they will take on their PvP development. Will it be the typical no risk zergfest that we have seen 20 million copies since wow. Or something that would have somekind of meaning like item drops etc.

I don't even count the respoint and safe zone zerging as a PvP anymore I can't stand a single game anymore which revolves around dying and instantly running back to the action from the closest respoint.

How about the idea of organized zergs going up against other organized zergs?  I'm not sure if this game will deliver that, but that's the holy grail of MMO pvp, as far as I'm concerned.  If I were making this game, I would focus on the mechanics to make organizing zergs easy TOP priority.  Think ranks and drawing on maps that your troops can see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  Elandrial

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/04
Posts: 104

2/09/14 8:46:56 PM#25
Originally posted by Satarious
As ESO and WAR before it  have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible task.  It's human nature.  When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything.  I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.

ie if it does NOT fit your goal than it did not work?so i guess your the new mmorpg god who decided what everyone else likes

i was really confuse about what i liked,i am glad you decided for me.that really was a load off me. funny how the pvp games never really catch on.if you want pvp ,try fps.why not just have a big arena and everyone pile in and go at it.if that is all your interested in,why do you even need anything else?.oh that right you want to pvp others ,lower than you,who are playing a game.silly me.

  Elandrial

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/04
Posts: 104

2/09/14 8:49:31 PM#26
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by InporylemQQ

Pretty curious to see what kind of route they will take on their PvP development. Will it be the typical no risk zergfest that we have seen 20 million copies since wow. Or something that would have somekind of meaning like item drops etc.

I don't even count the respoint and safe zone zerging as a PvP anymore I can't stand a single game anymore which revolves around dying and instantly running back to the action from the closest respoint.

How about the idea of organized zergs going up against other organized zergs?  I'm not sure if this game will deliver that, but that's the holy grail of MMO pvp, as far as I'm concerned.  If I were making this game, I would focus on the mechanics to make organizing zergs easy TOP priority.  Think ranks and drawing on maps that your troops can see.

i assume you know what zerg is.by your response i sort of doubt it.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4662

2/09/14 8:53:53 PM#27

Game design 101 - you either build a PvE focused game or a PvP focused game - doing both leads to failure.

 

  Satarious

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1045

 
OP  2/09/14 8:58:50 PM#28
Originally posted by Elandrial
 

i assume you know what zerg is.by your response i sort of doubt it.

Zerging is the idea of overwhelming and defeating your enemy with a greater number of soldiers.  The slaughtered side typically cries foul since it doesn't require much skill to slaughter your enemy when you outnumber them 10 to 1.  And while I agree with the sentiment, life is this way.  Even in our own real history, it's how the North overwhelmed and defeated the South during the Civil War.  It's a human nature thing that will always exist.  My point is this:  What happens when you have two organized forces with the INTENTION of being zergs go up against each other?  Imagine the excitement and challenge on both sides when you're facing an equal opponent in both skill and numbers?  Or even more exciting, imagine pulling off an Alexander the Great maneuver and decimating your enemy that is 10 times your size through shear skill alone?  That is what I meant by the word "zerg".

 

What's your definition?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 693

2/09/14 9:07:11 PM#29

It is totally a wrong assumption to think that a game designed with only PvP in mind cannot be fun.

I'm having an absolute blast playing Chivalry: medieval warfare- a game that's designed for multiplayer only.

What I've come to learn over the years is that games succeed the most when they KNOW exactly what they're trying to be and when they do it amazingly well.

Which is exactly why I just recently threw in with CU folks. I see something special in their game that I have not seen elsewhere.

  FlyinDutchman87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 164

2/09/14 10:37:33 PM#30
Originally posted by azzamasin
Not having PvE goes against the very nature of an RPG though.  IMO CU becomes a 3rd person MOBA style game rather then an MMORPG.

/disagree

 

An RPG is simple a player playing a role to tell a story.

 

That story can just as easily be told by other players as it can be by devs. Plus if it's players telling the story you'll never run out of content.

 

 

  otacu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 552

2/10/14 1:42:46 AM#31
Originally posted by SuperNick
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by SuperNick

http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/182013/5f5b3e88-650f-471f-ac14-ecee9f18b7ef.jpg

Btw, I noticed that you pulled that graphic image from a video that Andrew used to make a point about having massive amounts of players on the screen.  This was posted literally days after they announced the game.  So it has nothing to do with what the graphics of the final game will be like.  They basically slapped together the demo using  particle effects they used from an iPad game they made (March on Oz).  Andrew even specifically emphasized that this won't be the final graphics for the game.

I find it hilarious how haters latch on to something completely out of context to make some fake negative point about a game they decided to hate (for some stupid reason like QQing over no PvE).  I say 'hater' since any intelligent person would realize that it's WAAAAY too soon to judge on graphics.

You really expect the graphics to evolve that much beyond that? Some improved textures and better artwork but that engine is what it is: old.

I'd venture a guess to say it's the hero engine but who knows.

Seems more unrealistic to assume the game will evolve from that to some kinda modern day title.

How is that taking things out of context either? I was illustrating a point the engine is gonna be dated from the get go, which is usually what you come to expect from indie developers. That's usually a lot for anything but a niché community to accept.

Are you just trying to guess now?

Hero Engine is what ESO uses. (thank God CU won't use it)

CU is going to use a "built from scratch" engine that will focus on large pvp battles. It's a specialized engine so it will be perfecet just for what CU will be. That's old news.

And yes graphics will evolve much beyond that. That wasn't even an prealpha!

  Voiidiin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 826

Soylent green is made from PEOPLE

2/10/14 2:14:37 AM#32
Originally posted by otacu
Originally posted by SuperNick
Originally posted by Satarious
Originally posted by SuperNick

http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/full/182013/5f5b3e88-650f-471f-ac14-ecee9f18b7ef.jpg

Btw, I noticed that you pulled that graphic image from a video that Andrew used to make a point about having massive amounts of players on the screen.  This was posted literally days after they announced the game.  So it has nothing to do with what the graphics of the final game will be like.  They basically slapped together the demo using  particle effects they used from an iPad game they made (March on Oz).  Andrew even specifically emphasized that this won't be the final graphics for the game.

I find it hilarious how haters latch on to something completely out of context to make some fake negative point about a game they decided to hate (for some stupid reason like QQing over no PvE).  I say 'hater' since any intelligent person would realize that it's WAAAAY too soon to judge on graphics.

You really expect the graphics to evolve that much beyond that? Some improved textures and better artwork but that engine is what it is: old.

I'd venture a guess to say it's the hero engine but who knows.

Seems more unrealistic to assume the game will evolve from that to some kinda modern day title.

How is that taking things out of context either? I was illustrating a point the engine is gonna be dated from the get go, which is usually what you come to expect from indie developers. That's usually a lot for anything but a niché community to accept.

Are you just trying to guess now?

Hero Engine is what ESO uses. (thank God CU won't use it)

CU is going to use a "built from scratch" engine that will focus on large pvp battles. It's a specialized engine so it will be perfecet just for what CU will be. That's old news.

And yes graphics will evolve much beyond that. That wasn't even an prealpha!

I am guessing that Supernick got burned by Warhammer Online / ToA and has not gotten over that. I just cannot fathom the hatred towards a game, it has never made much sense to me since no one is forcing anyone to play it.

Is it fear that someones favorite game will suffer cause another game is so popular that its pulling away subs from every other game?

On a side note, if players are wanting a very good RvR/PvP experience akin to what DAoC originally offered, then graphics are the least of anyones concerns.

Lolipops !

  otacu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 552

2/10/14 4:25:44 AM#33

Btw it's not true that CU has no PVE.

Crafting is PVE and it's huge in CU. There are even 3 crafter classes (one for each realm). There is the Depths. There are mobs to farm for materials.

So we can say that CU is 85-90% PVP and 10-15% PVE :)

 

Btw there is no problem with ESO or Gw2. They both have a fun BASIC rvr experience but those who want a complete and indepth RVR experience will come to Camelot Unchained since it offers so much more.

  FlyinDutchman87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 164

2/11/14 12:44:32 AM#34
Originally posted by otacu

 

Btw there is no problem with ESO or Gw2. They both have a fun BASIC rvr experience but those who want a complete and indepth RVR experience will come to Camelot Unchained since it offers so much more.

 

/agree

 

It's not even that i dislike PVE. However, inorder to have a PvP game that works you need to design the mechanics and systems AROUND PvP. Not put it in a box and shove it off to the side.

 

In GW2 if they took out WvW tomorrow no-one who doesn't WvW would even notice.

 

If EVE took out PvP tomorrow the entire landscape of the game would be altered.

 

THAT'S the difference. And that's why CU is going to be awesome.

 

 

 

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 196

2/11/14 1:02:01 AM#35
Originally posted by Satarious
As ESO and WAR before it  have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible feat.  It's human nature.  When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything.  I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.

By your logic, catering to the PvP crowd is also an impossible feat doomed to failure -- as evidenced by Darkfall, Mortal Online, and others before them.

  Spawnblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/02/05
Posts: 196

2/11/14 1:06:53 AM#36
Originally posted by FlyinDutchman87
Originally posted by otacu

 

Btw there is no problem with ESO or Gw2. They both have a fun BASIC rvr experience but those who want a complete and indepth RVR experience will come to Camelot Unchained since it offers so much more.

 

/agree

 

It's not even that i dislike PVE. However, inorder to have a PvP game that works you need to design the mechanics and systems AROUND PvP. Not put it in a box and shove it off to the side.

 

In GW2 if they took out WvW tomorrow no-one who doesn't WvW would even notice.

 

If EVE took out PvP tomorrow the entire landscape of the game would be altered.

 

THAT'S the difference. And that's why CU is going to be awesome.

 

 

 

The problem lies in that PvP is even regarded separately from PvE.  In Eve, PvE and PvP are basically intertwined and generally not differentiated much.  If you're attacked by pirates, they feel like a part of the universe, not a squad of gankers just trying to kill you and dance on your dead body.  Eve, however, took steps to really cultivate that feeling by rewarding people who treated it as IC  (people having to leave their ships in order for others to take them intact, creating interaction between the parties,) as well as providing reasoning for these interactions (profit, among other things.)  And filling the universe with living, breathing objectives for people to contest and feel achievement for obtaining (rather than stupid, useless points and unnecessary vanity items.)

 

I haven't followed Unchained enough to know if they can do it.  But they'd have to move fairly far away from DAOC to pull that off.  The only company with a AAA track record to do it is CCP, which leaves me resting my hopes in their World of Darkness MMO.

  FlyinDutchman87

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/10
Posts: 164

2/11/14 1:47:17 AM#37

That's because in EvE as in the RL, conflict is over resources. Not points, or a useless castle on a useless hill. If your only objective is to take a castle because your opponet has it, that's fun for about a month, until that particular castle has changed hands about 500 times. Then you start thinking WTH is the point?

 

What eve does is give lawless space the best resources, which in turn drives players to fight over those resources.  Which in turn drives the economy and increases the need for those resources. Which is why even though eve is more than a decade old. It's still the standard for what Open world PvP and a player based economy should look like.

 

That's what the games that have tried to do RvR have been missing. A reason to fight.... Outside of "because they are the other guys." Hopefully CU will do this with their resource spawn ideas, and player created structures. They seem to be on the right track, but only time will tell.

  Satarious

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/08
Posts: 1045

 
OP  2/11/14 1:55:54 AM#38
Originally posted by Spawnblade
Originally posted by Satarious
As ESO and WAR before it  have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible feat.  It's human nature.  When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything.  I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.

By your logic, catering to the PvP crowd is also an impossible feat doomed to failure -- as evidenced by Darkfall, Mortal Online, and others before them.

Wow.  Your argument is poorly structured.  First of all, your conclusion makes no sense based on my logic.  My argument was that you cannot possibly cater to every type of player in an MMO and please everyone.  Since the "PvP crowd" is a subset of the whole (PvE, IP, PvP, etc. crowds all combined), how are you arriving at your conclusion that the subset is somehow the same as the whole?  Common sense dictates that it would be a whole lot more efficient to focus on PvP like a laser and not have to worry about PvE distractions.  Your argument falls on its face.  The "Jack of all trades, but master of none" thing has been done to death with MMOs.  I think it's about time an MMO out there masters pvp (more specifically, RvR).

As for Darkfall, that game was a disaster before it was even released.  The company behind it was a joke.  Unlike Mark Jacobs (who knows how to release a polished, successful pvp type game),  these jokers were and still are a bunch of amateurs.  Also, the game was a free-for-all PvP game.  Those types of pvp games never work because it's just a bunch of individuals killing each other randomly.  There's no greater purpose like you would get from being a part of a team, guild, army, or nation in RvR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c

  otacu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 552

2/11/14 2:11:48 AM#39
Originally posted by FlyinDutchman87

That's because in EvE as in the RL, conflict is over resources. Not points, or a useless castle on a useless hill. If your only objective is to take a castle because your opponet has it, that's fun for about a month, until that particular castle has changed hands about 500 times. Then you start thinking WTH is the point?

 

What eve does is give lawless space the best resources, which in turn drives players to fight over those resources.  Which in turn drives the economy and increases the need for those resources. Which is why even though eve is more than a decade old. It's still the standard for what Open world PvP and a player based economy should look like.

 

That's what the games that have tried to do RvR have been missing. A reason to fight.... Outside of "because they are the other guys." Hopefully CU will do this with their resource spawn ideas, and player created structures. They seem to be on the right track, but only time will tell.

CU has the correct direction since the best crafting resources will be in war zones and not in safe zones. Also the dungeon "The Depths" should be considered a resource.

Can't wait to have forum access and see what are they planning as the "driving force" for the whole war.

  Octagon7711

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/12
Posts: 325

Devs please nerf paper it's overpowered I'm rock which is fine scissors are fine.

2/11/14 2:29:44 AM#40
Originally posted by Satarious
As ESO and WAR before it  have shown, pleasing everybody is an impossible feat.  It's human nature.  When you have PvE and IP obsessives pulling developers in all sorts of directions, you end up with a mediocre game that pleases no one and is just adequate at everything.  I look forward to an MMO that masters NON-INSTANCED RvR at the expense of everything else.

WOW is the number one rated game in terms of success.  It's the standard that all others try to beat.  PVP only games do ok but none come close to the top MMO games which have both.  Why even use ESO which isn't out yet as an example?

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