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General Discussion  » Elder Scrolls is dead, the sky is falling, it's over for Bethesda

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51 posts found
  SuperNick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 456

 
OP  1/30/14 8:51:52 AM#1

Really guys? I've seen people who have gone as far as saying "Bethesda are disrespecting me! Never buying their game again" and "I'm looking at potential lawsuits right now"

So the complaints thus far:

  • If I don't buy an Imperial version, I will never get my Imperial race.
  • If I don't pre-order, I will never get to play any race on any faction.
  • This game has a sub. It will be F2P in a week.
Let's evaluate the statements. Firstly, we'll start with how ESO isn't going to be paywalled. If you didn't buy an Imperial version or pre-order, it stands to reason those things are going to be achievable in-game otherwise they'd be.. paywalled?
 
 
Matt Firor said the game, in addition to the monthly fee, would offer players a chance to spend more on items in an in-game cash shop.

“There won’t be anything like bonus points, but we will have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too like name changes and things like that,” he said.

So yes, there will be a cash shop but jumping on the worst possible scenario of having to "buy" the Imperial race and the any race/any faction functionality? Chill out and wait to see what finishing the Newgame++ yields. Plenty of MMOs work in this framework where you can add the entitlements offered by collectors editions to your account later down the road.
 
People need to calm down and wait for actual facts. You don't kick your community in the face by forcing them down routes, you give them attractive options that they can CHOOSE to pay a little extra for to have it sooner, much like the horse.
 
Lastly, am I the only one who thinks a sub model is just fine for games that are actually good and make good decisions? Sure, SWTOR went free, it was a crap game. It had poor business decisions made all around and it did that to survive the crap decisions. Yeah, GW2 was free from the start, it's entire model is based around minor content updates. LOTRO went free, aye, after 6 years? Old games do well to go free, it breathes life into them for a few more years.
 
I don't go to a restaurant and have a bad meal then become bitter towards every restaurant from that point on - simply put, I never really know until I've tried it or at least read a multitude of reviews. So why would I do it with an MMO when I have no facts to speak of?
 
So hey, calm down for just a few minutes, hold off on the lawsuits and buy the game you're probably going to buy anyway.
  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2641

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/30/14 8:54:43 AM#2
It's the same few folks that post this doom gloom for all games...they been here years.

  Hellidol

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 379

1/30/14 9:01:20 AM#3
Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

  SuperNick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 456

 
OP  1/30/14 9:05:58 AM#4
Originally posted by Hellidol
Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

I agree, there have been some unfortunate releases in the last few years but as I said, I can't use them as a basis for how everything will be from here on out; that's just a bleak way to walk through life in general. I dunno how people do it. :P

Should I never watch a movie again because After Earth horrified me?

Should I never buy a car again because my brand new 2014 model broke down a week after I got it?

I'm personally excited and think it's a real labor of love that isn't constricted by some parent company who wants to push it out the door before it's ready. (Read: a lot of the recent MMOs..)

  Ratero

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 322

1/30/14 9:19:28 AM#5

Personally, I love it when the Drama Queens start their collective ranting.  It makes the boards interesting and I can sit back in my chair with a bag of pop-corn and laugh at all of them.

Seriously though, it's like this on pretty much any launch.  The Pre-orders for the game are revealed and all the whiners come out of the wood works.  For the most part, everything and I mean everything in the pre-orders are nothing but fluff and people pay out large sums for that fluff.  Also, after a few weeks into the game most people never use the pre-order fluff again.  There are some exceptions though... like some mounts that can only be received through pre-ordering.

The point is this... They give you a list of options on how to purchase the game.  If you find value in one option over another then it is YOUR choice which one you buy.  By choosing one pre-order option over another pre-order option has NO effect at all on someone elses selection.  They had the opportunity to purchase that same package and they decided not to purchase it for some reason or another.  You made your choice and they made their choice.

Personally, I find it a bit refreshing that the higher costing pre-orders of ESO do give you something more than worthless fluff.  If I wanted to spend more money on a higher end pre-order then I would actually like to have some sort of "value" given back to me in game instead of a silly cloth map, statue, a CD or some book I will never crack open.  If people are willing to pay a bit more for the game than other people I see no reason why they should not be given something that while may not give them a huge advantage in the game, it does give them something in game that is nice.  In the case of ESO unlocking the ANY race for ANY faction for the pre-orders... I think it is brilliant and I think they should never offer it again since it would then water down the reason for doing the pre-orders in the first place.  Perhaps at some later date they could sell single race unlocks in the cash shop, but not for a few months after release.

/sits back with his bag of pop-corn and starts reading more of the forums

Ratero.

  Hellidol

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/12
Posts: 379

1/30/14 9:25:26 AM#6
Originally posted by SuperNick
Originally posted by Hellidol
Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

I agree, there have been some unfortunate releases in the last few years but as I said, I can't use them as a basis for how everything will be from here on out; that's just a bleak way to walk through life in general.

Should I never watch a movie again because After Earth horrified me?

Should I never buy a car again because my brand new 2014 model broke down a week after I got it?

How about being nice to people? Should I never be nice to anyone again because some people throw niceness back in your face?

I'm personally excited and think it's a real labor of love that isn't constricted by some parent company who wants to push it out the door before it's ready. (Read: a lot of the recent MMOs..)

What you are describing is very different subjects, one is something you want to like to do effortlessly, like being nice, if you are then thats what will happen. Gaming is kind of different in the sense of having to put effort into in-order to feel achievement. Much like a hypothesis if you are wrong all the effort put into it really wears down on the optimism. Also movies, cars, and ( dare i say it) people are generally not enough bad to the point of no return. If I tried boxing for the last 4 years and lost every fight out of 20 fights you might want to quit because it is simply not worth the effort if you feel you will lose before you even have the match. A lot of people feel that way with MMO's I have played: SWG, UO, SB, EVE, WOW, Linage 2, swtor, ect... out of all the mmos in the like 11 years I have only had fun with 3 ....and all three of them don't exist in the same form or at all. 

  User Deleted
1/30/14 9:32:08 AM#7
Originally posted by Ratero

Personally, I love it when the Drama Queens start their collective ranting.  It makes the boards interesting and I can sit back in my chair with a bag of pop-corn and laugh at all of them.

Seriously though, it's like this on pretty much any launch.  The Pre-orders for the game are revealed and all the whiners come out of the wood works.  For the most part, everything and I mean everything in the pre-orders are nothing but fluff and people pay out large sums for that fluff.  Also, after a few weeks into the game most people never use the pre-order fluff again.  There are some exceptions though... like some mounts that can only be received through pre-ordering.

The point is this... They give you a list of options on how to purchase the game.  If you find value in one option over another then it is YOUR choice which one you buy.  By choosing one pre-order option over another pre-order option has NO effect at all on someone elses selection.  They had the opportunity to purchase that same package and they decided not to purchase it for some reason or another.  You made your choice and they made their choice.

Personally, I find it a bit refreshing that the higher costing pre-orders of ESO do give you something more than worthless fluff.  If I wanted to spend more money on a higher end pre-order then I would actually like to have some sort of "value" given back to me in game instead of a silly cloth map, statue, a CD or some book I will never crack open.  If people are willing to pay a bit more for the game than other people I see no reason why they should not be given something that while may not give them a huge advantage in the game, it does give them something in game that is nice.  In the case of ESO unlocking the ANY race for ANY faction for the pre-orders... I think it is brilliant and I think they should never offer it again since it would then water down the reason for doing the pre-orders in the first place.  Perhaps at some later date they could sell single race unlocks in the cash shop, but not for a few months after release.

/sits back with his bag of pop-corn and starts reading more of the forums

Ratero.

Couldn't have said it better myself.  I like a CE with a little kick to it.

  nationalcity

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/04
Posts: 339

1/30/14 9:36:04 AM#8
Originally posted by Hellidol
Originally posted by SuperNick
Originally posted by Hellidol
Maybe they have issues IRL, or maybe like me have been very disappointed with most of the newer MMO's in the last 8 years. I for one, cant say why i know this, but really believe this game to be a much better product then any mmo from the last 8 years. If all you like is the wow type content encounters then you wont like this, in wow content is hard until one of few things happen, nerfs, learn content or gear improvement. For most people its a combo of both. I for see people that want a encounter to feel new every time will love this game quit a bit, those that just like to log on and stand around having people look at their cool gear will hate this game and try to talk it to the ground. 

I agree, there have been some unfortunate releases in the last few years but as I said, I can't use them as a basis for how everything will be from here on out; that's just a bleak way to walk through life in general.

Should I never watch a movie again because After Earth horrified me?

Should I never buy a car again because my brand new 2014 model broke down a week after I got it?

How about being nice to people? Should I never be nice to anyone again because some people throw niceness back in your face?

I'm personally excited and think it's a real labor of love that isn't constricted by some parent company who wants to push it out the door before it's ready. (Read: a lot of the recent MMOs..)

What you are describing is very different subjects, one is something you want to like to do effortlessly, like being nice, if you are then thats what will happen. Gaming is kind of different in the sense of having to put effort into in-order to feel achievement. Much like a hypothesis if you are wrong all the effort put into it really wears down on the optimism. Also movies, cars, and ( dare i say it) people are generally not enough bad to the point of no return. If I tried boxing for the last 4 years and lost every fight out of 20 fights you might want to quit because it is simply not worth the effort if you feel you will lose before you even have the match. A lot of people feel that way with MMO's I have played: SWG, UO, SB, EVE, WOW, Linage 2, swtor, ect... out of all the mmos in the like 11 years I have only had fun with 3 ....and all three of them don't exist in the same form or at all. 

I'm not sure where you get this a lot of people, I mean people on this forum, people on other forums?

 

I mean people do realize that people on forums are only a small percentage of the actually mmo population right?

Most people are not on the forums, I mean I feel bad for you that didn't enjoy any of the mmos' that came out recently but your lumping people in the same category as you without any kind of facts except for forums that are notoriously know for whining and complaining......

 

Now I realize not everyone is gonna like TESO but these doom and gloom posts are getting a little ridiculous....

There will be plenty of people at launch just like every mmo now whether they hold onto them or not is a different story......

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4879

1/30/14 9:36:57 AM#9
I hate threads with "sucker" titles.

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  Tredo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/17/04
Posts: 196

1/30/14 9:37:59 AM#10
It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3875

1/30/14 9:41:11 AM#11
Originally posted by Tredo
It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

Bah...if you played Pong you've played every game ever... kids today, Oy!

  Tygranir

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/13
Posts: 765

1/30/14 9:41:54 AM#12
Originally posted by Tredo
It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

If you didn't enjoy Skyrim... why would you even be interested in ESO?

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  Fdzzaigl

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2111

1/30/14 9:42:52 AM#13

You will most probably be able to buy those things in the cash shop, eventually.

Does that make it alright? No.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2382

1/30/14 9:43:42 AM#14
Let's not.  you can disagree with people all you want, but you have to accept that people are affected by things differently than you.  If people are going to swear off Bethesda and/or Zenimax because they feel disrespected, then you insulting them for doing so isn't going to make them change their mind.  People have a right to be upset, and you have no right to tell them how they should feel.
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5331

1/30/14 9:43:43 AM#15
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Tredo
It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

Bah...if you played Pong you've played every game ever... kids today, Oy!

yup, most of them haven't realised that Bethesda isn't Zenimax

  bakon2

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/04
Posts: 124

1/30/14 9:48:06 AM#16
Originally posted by Tredo
It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

As to your first point, you are right.  It is super easy to explain this game.  It is an MMO that is attempting to combine the lore from the SINGLE player ESO games into a PERSISTENT MMO world.  Persistent world is the main difference not just extra people running around, that is oversimplifying the difference.  Your second point about the game not being good is moot simply because it is your opinion.  I happen to like it, you don't.  Good.  Move on. 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3875

1/30/14 9:48:14 AM#17
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You will most probably be able to buy those things in the cash shop, eventually.

Does that make it alright? No.

Everything is eventual...

All things come to those who wait...

 

"Eventually" may take a good while to come around but who can argue with your logic?

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4779

1/30/14 10:06:35 AM#18
Originally posted by Tygranir
Originally posted by Tredo
It's super easy to explain  this game... it's not very good at all. If you played Skyrim you have played ESO, only difference is some extra people running around.

If you didn't enjoy Skyrim... why would you even be interested in ESO?

I've got to wonder this as well, and yet he's not alone.

This game is literally elder scrolls, done as an MMO. He's right about that. They've said that is what this game is going to be. And now, it's somehow 'crap' because of it.

Makes about as much sense as going onto the Warhammer boards and saying 'this game will suck, because I hate space marines'.

  Fdzzaigl

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2111

1/30/14 10:09:04 AM#19
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl

You will most probably be able to buy those things in the cash shop, eventually.

Does that make it alright? No.

Everything is eventual...

All things come to those who wait...

 

"Eventually" may take a good while to come around but who can argue with your logic?

As you can also read in my reply, I absolutely do not agree with the approach they're taking.

Based on the fact that they have cash shop plans already though, I'm pretty sure they'll try to nickle & dime the hell out of it even more.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  asrlohz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 664

Alea iacta est, beloved Doomsayers.

1/30/14 10:15:56 AM#20

That Matt Firor quote is old and outdated. Paul Sage put those rumours to rest. But considering the recent events, it might as well be a cash shop since they are going to be selling the imperial race in their store as an "upgrade" for the standard TES:O edition.

 

Also, Bethesda won't fall. Nor will Zenimax Media. Maybe ZOS but most likely not. It's the same as the doomsayers said about Mists of Pandaria when it was released. "Oh, this is surely the end of Blizzard". For gods sake no. It's not, these are multi billion companies. They are worth more than you, your father and the previous 19 generations of your family ever were and the future 12 generations of your line will ever be.

 

Hopefully they won't all be doomsayers. The game will most likely make a profit, but it won't be the game I had hoped for and will most likely not captivate me for very long with this "Purchase Convenience" options that have recently been installed.

But it's still too early to say. Considering the amount of dust this announcement has brought up I think it's plausible that they might retract and redesign their marketing and launch.

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