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News & Features Discussion  » [Editorial] Elder Scrolls Online: Thoughts on the Collector's Edition Controversy

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297 posts found
  Razeekster

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/09/11
Posts: 2027

May the game be ever in your favor.

1/30/14 1:07:20 PM#21

I'm sorry, I'm not even usually the type of person to make comments like this, but this article comes off as a desperate attempt to make as many excuses as possible to justify the need to pay for a feature that will not be available if you do not pay for it before preorders are no longer an option.

 

If it was just a little feature it wouldn't matter, but in a universe like the Elder Scrolls, giving the feature for "characters to join any alliance, no matter which race you choose" as a preorder bonus is a complete and utter cash grab, and is totally unfair to those people who don't have the money to pay for the preorder right now but plan on buying and subscribing to the game down the road.

 

I really don't see how you can argue that that is an okay bonus to add to preorder. It just isn't.

Smile

  Calven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/14/12
Posts: 152

1/30/14 1:08:19 PM#22

World of Warcraft's Collector's Edition did NOT include a race lock. In fact, it included only an in-game vanity pet. besides that, everyone who bought the game recieved the exact same product. The CE gave them several real life items instead. Now, tell me how you would have felt if WoW had locked a race, only able to play if you spent 20$ extra. Now, I'm all for paying the price for somebody else's work, but if the game box costs 49,99$ and the race and the other three items cost 20$ extra, then I must conclude that the developers used several years making these CE perks while spending only a few days or months making the entire world we can play in everything in it.  If that is the case then the game is hardly worth playing but you can be sure that the Imperial Race and the Horse will be marvelous!

Race is not a vanity item. In WoW EVERY race has its own history, traits, cities and so on. They are unique. In ESO races are so important for everything that happens that you can't say that races doesn't matter.

The main point in this is that companies now demand money for a game box upon its release, but will immediately block off some of the content and sell it to you as seperate content, even though the game just released. I don't find that okay. I don't believe that a company can deliver a good game if half the developers are working on the game, while the other half is working on content to be sold just after it's release.

  Simsu

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/03
Posts: 347

1/30/14 1:09:56 PM#23

This setup screams of a "Subs Plus" payment model which I'll never ever support. They want to make the money off of subs and then sell extra things that are "optional," but may or may not be extremely handy to have (i.e. any race any faction).

They have a right to sell their game anyway they want to, but that doesn't mean I have to support it with my money or my words - and I don't care who else does what - "Subs Plus" screams "we're gonna milk you for all the money we can" to me. Go Subs or go Cash Shop.

Based on how it's starting out, I'd be amazed if they game didn't end up going F2P "soon" after launch. (When they've gotten as much sub money as they think the diehards will pay out.)

  Madimorga

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 2012

1/30/14 1:19:42 PM#24

Devs understand mmo players now.  We like to be first ones in.  We like mounts.  We like loot.  We like to have all the options available to us that are available to others.  And we will pay for it.

 

But there is a limit to what we'll pay for without feeling like milked fools.  I think these devs are coming precariously close to the edge with this one.  

 

Still, it's a tough business.  These games cost way too much to make now and the turnover is ridiculously high, often prompting a conversion to free to play for games that start off as subs.

 

I'm on the fence about ESO.  I might or might not play.  If they're smart, they'll offer this option post-launch for less money on Amazon and Steam once the early adopter frenzy wears off, leaving them in need of more revenue.  In which case I might later pick it up for ten bucks over the cost of the standard edition or whatever and try it then.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1251

1/30/14 1:24:36 PM#25

controversy?-srsly?

i personally like all the editions -they seem fair.

iam not a big fan of vanity pets- therefore i perhaps would of prefered -maybe a spacial 'spell' for your character-nothing too 'Op'...just something 'special' just like imperial to use while in starting zones...

thats all i have to say on this- on a side note Blizzard had always done outstanding CE- from wow to starcraft2 into Diablo3...

but i have ordered my ESO collectors- with no regrets!

  Fdzzaigl

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/09
Posts: 2160

1/30/14 1:25:56 PM#26
Originally posted by Razeekster

I'm sorry, I'm not even usually the type of person to make comments like this, but this article comes off as a desperate attempt to make as many excuses as possible to justify the need to pay for a feature that will not be available if you do not pay for it before preorders are no longer an option.

 

If it was just a little feature it wouldn't matter, but in a universe like the Elder Scrolls, giving the feature for "characters to join any alliance, no matter which race you choose" as a preorder bonus is a complete and utter cash grab, and is totally unfair to those people who don't have the money to pay for the preorder right now but plan on buying and subscribing to the game down the road.

 

I really don't see ho you can argue that that is an okay bonus to add to preorder. It just isn't.

These are my thoughts exactly. I have not been bashing on this game at all, even though I have (serious) doubts about some aspects of it recently.

You have to realise this is not on the same level as some other random game with no franchise behind it trying to reel in players with pre-order bonuses.

It's still a game in the Elder Scrolls series and these bonuses are things that go pretty deep, as they've been standardly available for previous games in the series. There is the distinct impression that loyal fans are being baited and hooked to pre-order the game while the NDA is still in effect and reviews are not possible.

Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1251

1/30/14 1:28:26 PM#27
Originally posted by nttajira

Now they give the option of the imperial race not faction locked, WHAT A JOKE !!

I'm saying all that, but I'm going to play the games because that amazing and nothing else better currently out and probably buy the collector edition for the horse+the race but this doesn't change how zenimax have changed how I view them = really bad !!

iam ok with imperial beign neutral. IF theres a short lore togo with it.

i always thought blizzard screwed up with deathknights and pandas= its clear to see which faction they 'really'  belong too..

that  said...with elders its safe to say imperials can play either factions- iam ok with that..

  Ruien

Novice Member

Joined: 3/15/12
Posts: 42

1/30/14 1:39:15 PM#28

I bought the digital imp. I am happy with my choice. I don't see the controversy. What I do see is the over all entitled mentality that rules the forums on this site.

As Madimorga stated, people think because they pay an amount they are entitled to everything. That could be true in other areas of a market but it hasn't always applied to games or gaming. In fact that mentality has been very detrimental to gaming on a whole with games losing any type of challenge. it has also lead to games being made that emphasize the "reward" over the game play. Now developers create an award and then make gameplay around it for you to do to get it. Thats how you get dailies for gold or tokens or faction so you can get the new uber sword. Its pathetic.

ESO has done something different. They have put the emphasis back on the gameplay and the reward is just an extra. Thats why you have so many entitled pukes who don't like the game. They have never known anything different than the WoW and its clones mentality.

If  ESO stays the way it is, I will be giving them money just to let them know at least 1 person appreciates what they have done.

  JJ82

Elite Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 1102

1/30/14 1:41:28 PM#29

If this pre-order deal is a success it bodes ill for the future of MMOs.

Companies will start deliberately locking content and developing games in a way that you will have to pay even more to unlock.

You hate F2P because its nickel and diming? Just wait, now you will have to buy a game, pay a sub and still have to pay more to unlock content!

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  MMOGamer71

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/07
Posts: 1649

1/30/14 1:42:40 PM#30
Originally posted by Ruien

I bought the digital imp. I am happy with my choice. I don't see the controversy. What I do see is the over all entitled mentality that rules the forums on this site.

As Madimorga stated, people think because they pay an amount they are entitled to everything. That could be true in other areas of a market but it hasn't always applied to games or gaming. In fact that mentality has been very detrimental to gaming on a whole with games losing any type of challenge. it has also lead to games being made that emphasize the "reward" over the game play. Now developers create an award and then make gameplay around it for you to do to get it. Thats how you get dailies for gold or tokens or faction so you can get the new uber sword. Its pathetic.

ESO has done something different. They have put the emphasis back on the gameplay and the reward is just an extra. Thats why you have so many entitled pukes who don't like the game. They have never known anything different than the WoW and its clones mentality.

If  ESO stays the way it is, I will be giving them money just to let them know at least 1 person appreciates what they have done.

Yeah offering a subscription based game with race pay locks like a F2P masked as a CE is an entitlement.

  aslan132

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/07
Posts: 331

1/30/14 1:43:00 PM#31

So, I get all the controversy over the race and everything, and honestly its only a part of the problem for me. People are really latching onto the fact that preorders get "any race in any faction", and collectors get "Imperial Race".

 

At first I was upset as anyone. Races in this game are not merely cosmetic as the author of this article would have you believe. They do have racial abilities, and skill lines, and do have an impact on gameplay. So all the hubbub over gating content behind a money wall is completely founded. Zenimax really needs to consider the larger implications of this.

 

That being said, I was most excited about "play any race in any faction" as I plan to play this game with my GF. I wanted to play Dark Elf, she wants to be Khajiit. I got excited to learn that we can both play our chosen races and still play together. 

 

Theres another issue though, and its one that seems to not have taken hold in the larger community. I will post directly from the ESO official preorder site:

 

  • When will I be able to redeem the digital items from the Explorer’s Pack or Imperial Edition?    
  • On PC / Mac, the earliest players will be able to receive their digital items from the Explorer's Pack or Imperial Edition is April 4th. On or after this date, their items will be sent to them via in game mail upon their first login. This mail will not expire and a full mail box will not prevent its arrival. Console customers will receive their digital items upon the announced launch date in June, 2014.
 
Ok, so for those that havent caught it yet, if you want to take advantage of any preorder perk or collectors perk, like Imperials or playing other races.... YOU HAVE TO GIVE UP YOUR HEADSTART.
 
Sorry for the caps, but making sure you see it. Ok abit dramatic, but perks wont be awarded until AFTER launch. Not during headstart/early access. That means to play the race I want (or Imperial) you have to reroll after headstart. Sure you can play a different character for those 5 days, but why? If after those 5 days im just starting over again, whats the point? Its not exactly a game that requires you to need alts. So if I want to take advantage of the 5 days early access to get ahead of the launch day rush, and even get into Cyrodiil early on, I still cant play the race I want. 
 
 
So the real question is, why are we paying $80-$100 for a race, that we cant play for the first 5 days? You have to choose between early access and the race of your choice. Talk about a rip-off. I was all for the CE and preorder perks, but Im not paying $80 bucks to LOSE my head start. 
  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2668

110100100

1/30/14 1:43:27 PM#32


Originally posted by SlyLoK

Originally posted by JJ82 " If anything they have provided a laurel leaf to the Elder Scrolls players that were upset about faction locks. Does this seem counter intuitive to the stance they took on faction locks originally? A little" No. What it did was prove that everything they said about why they used the base game design was a complete and total lie. Most TES fans that got upset about the game was WHY ISNT IT OPEN WORLD like TES games? We were told they HAD TO make it this way for realm pride and because MMOs require sacrifices. It was all BS, like most people said and they PROVED it. Its not a laurel, its a carrot on a stick to lead us away from the real issue, a poor game design that was just shown to be worthless made by people with no intention of making a TES game, just a DaoC remake.
No. It just means they heard what some people said and their dislike of the faction lock. And with a simple preorder they can now do what they wanted. The faction lock was originally there to keep one faction from being vastly more populated than the others.

The only controversy is coming from the people that have always bashed on TESO no matter what.. Now that they offer the option its " OMGZ what they said before was a LIE!111!!1! ".  


^^ that.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/30/14 1:47:37 PM#33
Originally posted by aslan132

So, I get all the controversy over the race and everything, and honestly its only a part of the problem for me. People are really latching onto the fact that preorders get "any race in any faction", and collectors get "Imperial Race".

 

At first I was upset as anyone. Races in this game are not merely cosmetic as the author of this article would have you believe. They do have racial abilities, and skill lines, and do have an impact on gameplay. So all the hubbub over gating content behind a money wall is completely founded. Zenimax really needs to consider the larger implications of this.

 

That being said, I was most excited about "play any race in any faction" as I plan to play this game with my GF. I wanted to play Dark Elf, she wants to be Khajiit. I got excited to learn that we can both play our chosen races and still play together. 

 

Theres another issue though, and its one that seems to not have taken hold in the larger community. I will post directly from the ESO official preorder site:

 

  • When will I be able to redeem the digital items from the Explorer’s Pack or Imperial Edition?    
  • On PC / Mac, the earliest players will be able to receive their digital items from the Explorer's Pack or Imperial Edition is April 4th. On or after this date, their items will be sent to them via in game mail upon their first login. This mail will not expire and a full mail box will not prevent its arrival. Console customers will receive their digital items upon the announced launch date in June, 2014.
 
Ok, so for those that havent caught it yet, if you want to take advantage of any preorder perk or collectors perk, like Imperials or playing other races.... YOU HAVE TO GIVE UP YOUR HEADSTART.
 
Sorry for the caps, but making sure you see it. Ok abit dramatic, but perks wont be awarded until AFTER launch. Not during headstart/early access. That means to play the race I want (or Imperial) you have to reroll after headstart. Sure you can play a different character for those 5 days, but why? If after those 5 days im just starting over again, whats the point? Its not exactly a game that requires you to need alts. So if I want to take advantage of the 5 days early access to get ahead of the launch day rush, and even get into Cyrodiil early on, I still cant play the race I want. 
  
So the real question is, why are we paying $80-$100 for a race, that we cant play for the first 5 days? You have to choose between early access and the race of your choice. Talk about a rip-off. I was all for the CE and preorder perks, but Im not paying $80 bucks to LOSE my head start. 

I think you are misreading this.  It refers to digital *items* arriving in the in game mail.  Your racial choice occurs in character creation, it has nothing to do with items.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4127

1/30/14 1:48:54 PM#34
  • CE pre-order... check.
  • Sorting through 20 guild invites...to do.
  • Theorycrafting builds...coming soon

Now I'm just waiting to play... everything else is just background noise.

  Reallymj

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 43

1/30/14 1:51:21 PM#35

All I see is a bunch of negative Neds and their sense of never ending entitlement. Might as well say you won't play unless you get a football helmet full of cottage cheese and naked pictures of Bea Arthur.

 

~Im not what I am~

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6115

1/30/14 1:51:31 PM#36

I enjoy posing critical questions and sifting new games. I think it's good for developers and the games if they can stand that test. It doesn't have to be negative, but critical thinking and questioning is nearly always good.

The problem, for me, is a question of integrity. Firor and Zeni have been misleading at best about how they're charging for the game. Like I said before, Neverwinter got raked over the coals for a $200 pre-order package but ESO gets a string of excuse articles. Why isn't this developer and Firor in particular being taken to task for making statements that don't match up? He said the sub was because pay-gates and "nickel and dime" microtransactions didn't fit the ESO premium experience. Well that's not true, but the author's answer is that it's okay to dismiss integrity because other people do it.

If we continually get game and service experiences that we find lacking, it's because we don't have any accountability. I'm sure the game is fun and people will like it. That doesn't mean we should overlook mistakes being made.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Stuka1000

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 813

1/30/14 1:53:29 PM#37
Originally posted by rochrist
I actually think an awful lot of people would be pretty ecstatic with a modern DAoC remake. Just sayin

You're right, but not if I could say play a troll as Albion.  What made realm pride was in no small part due to the differences, there will be no realm pride in ESO now that any race can join any alliance.  Dumbest decision ever.

  Jaychi72

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/12
Posts: 69

1/30/14 1:57:51 PM#38

looking for a group of people to Donate their time to make a game that everyone wants.

Any takers?

  User Deleted
1/30/14 2:01:19 PM#39
Originally posted by Jaychi72

looking for a group of people to Donate their time to make a game that everyone wants.

Any takers?

Candy Crush?

  pmcubed

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/05
Posts: 291

1/30/14 2:09:20 PM#40
Originally posted by Reallymj

All I see is a bunch of negative Neds and their sense of never ending entitlement. Might as well say you won't play unless you get a football helmet full of cottage cheese and naked pictures of Bea Arthur.

 

I think you fail to see the future repercussions if this becomes standard.  What is to stop every developer from holding back content and/or charging for content stuff over cosmetics?  The answer is the concerned consumer obviously. But, the dev's are shooting themselves in the foot when they make decisions that lead consumers to feel jaded.  It changes people's opinion to, "let's wait and see".  That approach leads to shallow F2P games, because both the developers and consumers don't feel like taking a risk.  

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