Trending Games | World of Warcraft | ArcheAge | EVE Online | Diablo 3

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,815,567 Users Online:0
Games:731  Posts:6,214,866
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Poll - was the decision regarding the CE and pre-orders worth the backlash?

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search
95 posts found
  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

1/30/14 7:46:35 AM#41
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by dumpcat

Originally posted by Vonatar
"The cost of anything unaffordable is unfair in the eyes of the person who can't afford it."

 

 

And they feel as if an injustice has been dealt to them....Gotta love the entitlement generation.

 

And it's a false argument.  Basically the straw man logical fallacy.

 

Most of the people that I see calling this out as a money grab are people that have purchased more expensive CEs in the past.  Many of them are also supporters of the subscription model.

 

There is a very large difference between not being able to afford something and feeling like something is designed to take advantage of the consumer.

 

Haha take advantage of its consumers oh man too funny!  How does a video game take advantage of their consumer?  You have a choice you buy it or you don't.  

 

I bet most of you already had your eso release complaint form filled out months ago.  All you had to do was insert whatever they were added to CE version.  

 

The monetization methods of any product or service can be designed in a way to take advantage of the consumer.  There are entire consumer advocacy groups designed to prevent this type of behavior and without them, things would be a lot worse for everyone.  Why?  Because a ton of people take the same stance that you are.

 

You are welcome to laugh about it all you want.  However, laughing at something does not change it's validity.

  Reham79

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/14
Posts: 500

1/30/14 7:53:49 AM#42
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by dumpcat

Originally posted by Vonatar
"The cost of anything unaffordable is unfair in the eyes of the person who can't afford it."

 

 

And they feel as if an injustice has been dealt to them....Gotta love the entitlement generation.

 

And it's a false argument.  Basically the straw man logical fallacy.

 

Most of the people that I see calling this out as a money grab are people that have purchased more expensive CEs in the past.  Many of them are also supporters of the subscription model.

 

There is a very large difference between not being able to afford something and feeling like something is designed to take advantage of the consumer.

 

Haha take advantage of its consumers oh man too funny!  How does a video game take advantage of their consumer?  You have a choice you buy it or you don't.  

 

I bet most of you already had your eso release complaint form filled out months ago.  All you had to do was insert whatever they were added to CE version.  

 

The monetization methods of any product or service can be designed in a way to take advantage of the consumer.  There are entire consumer advocacy groups designed to prevent this type of behavior and without them, things would be a lot worse for everyone.  Why?  Because a ton of people take the same stance that you are.

 

You are welcome to laugh about it all you want.  However, laughing at something does not change it's validity.

 

First you didn't explain how ESO is taking advantage of its consumers.  I don't need to join some group I'm a mature grown adult. If I don't like a product I don't buy it, I don't come on some site and cry they are taking advantage of me because I don't like their product. 

 

There are also consumer groups that are fighting violence, sex and language in video games, they are about as good as the other ones.  

  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 568

1/30/14 7:55:17 AM#43
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by dumpcat

Originally posted by Vonatar
"The cost of anything unaffordable is unfair in the eyes of the person who can't afford it."

 

 

And they feel as if an injustice has been dealt to them....Gotta love the entitlement generation.

 

And it's a false argument.  Basically the straw man logical fallacy.

 

Most of the people that I see calling this out as a money grab are people that have purchased more expensive CEs in the past.  Many of them are also supporters of the subscription model.

 

There is a very large difference between not being able to afford something and feeling like something is designed to take advantage of the consumer.

 

Haha take advantage of its consumers oh man too funny!  How does a video game take advantage of their consumer?  You have a choice you buy it or you don't.  

 

I bet most of you already had your eso release complaint form filled out months ago.  All you had to do was insert whatever they were added to CE version.  

 

The monetization methods of any product or service can be designed in a way to take advantage of the consumer.  There are entire consumer advocacy groups designed to prevent this type of behavior and without them, things would be a lot worse for everyone.  Why?  Because a ton of people take the same stance that you are.

 

You are welcome to laugh about it all you want.  However, laughing at something does not change it's validity.

All sales are designed to take advantage of the consumer. It's a question of degrees.

I still struggle to see how Zenimax are taking advantage of the consumer to a degree warranting complaint. They are exercising typical supply and demand principles in my view, by selling something people want to buy in order to realise an early return on investment.

Prior to pre-order we all presumed that (a) Imperial is not a playable race, and (b) races are faction locked. Now we discover that neither restriction is absolute, if you are prepared to pre-order and/or buy the Imperial Edition.

Does it make a difference to the consumer that some people will be Imperials, or that some people will play as Khajiit in the Daggerfall Covenant? I can't see how, other than coveting what someone else has.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10507

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

1/30/14 8:00:00 AM#44

The backlash of all those people preordering and buying the more expensive collector's editions?  Yeah, I bet it was worth it.

 

**

 

It's current #15 in pc game sales on Amazon.  The Imperial Edition is currently #2. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/software/1294221011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_sw_2_3_last

 

**

 

The Imperial Edition is #6 in the general "Video Games" category.

 

http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-video-games/zgbs/videogames/ref=pd_dp_ts_vg_1

 

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

1/30/14 8:05:41 AM#45
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by dumpcat

Originally posted by Vonatar
"The cost of anything unaffordable is unfair in the eyes of the person who can't afford it."

 

 

And they feel as if an injustice has been dealt to them....Gotta love the entitlement generation.

 

And it's a false argument.  Basically the straw man logical fallacy.

 

Most of the people that I see calling this out as a money grab are people that have purchased more expensive CEs in the past.  Many of them are also supporters of the subscription model.

 

There is a very large difference between not being able to afford something and feeling like something is designed to take advantage of the consumer.

 

Haha take advantage of its consumers oh man too funny!  How does a video game take advantage of their consumer?  You have a choice you buy it or you don't.  

 

I bet most of you already had your eso release complaint form filled out months ago.  All you had to do was insert whatever they were added to CE version.  

 

The monetization methods of any product or service can be designed in a way to take advantage of the consumer.  There are entire consumer advocacy groups designed to prevent this type of behavior and without them, things would be a lot worse for everyone.  Why?  Because a ton of people take the same stance that you are.

 

You are welcome to laugh about it all you want.  However, laughing at something does not change it's validity.

All sales are designed to take advantage of the consumer. It's a question of degrees.

I still struggle to see how Zenimax are taking advantage of the consumer to a degree warranting complaint. They are exercising typical supply and demand principles in my view, by selling something people want to buy in order to realise an early return on investment.

Prior to pre-order we all presumed that (a) Imperial is not a playable race, and (b) races are faction locked. Now we discover that neither restriction is absolute, if you are prepared to pre-order and/or buy the Imperial Edition.

Does it make a difference to the consumer that some people will be Imperials, or that some people will play as Khajiit in the Daggerfall Covenant? I can't see how, other than coveting what someone else has.

 

The lead designer explicitly stated that a subscription model was the best fit for TESO so that content wouldn't be locked behind pay walls.  Locking a full race behind a pay wall (the addition cost of the CE) is certainly locking content behind a pay wall despite the existence of the subscription.  It represents a complete disconnect between what was said and the actions taken be Zenimax.  That alone *should* be enough not to trust the company.

 

However, if you would like more.  Zenimax is expressly forbidding anyone from talking about actual game play (NDA) while offering presales of the product.  While I very much believe it is the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves prior to a purchase, Zenimax is actively attempting to prevent the consumer from educating themselves.  Instead, they are attempting to provide only the marketing message they would like available and are asking consumers to make a buying decision based on that.  Guess what?  That marketing message is designed to make a potential buyer buy, not to educate them about the pros and cons of the product.  This, more than anything else, is what warrants a complaint.

 

If Zenimax would simply drop the NDA, allow EVERYONE to talk about their experience with the game, allow video reviews to be posted to YouTube and run an open beta that allows potential consumers to try before buying, I would remove my complaints for the most part.  I still believe the flat out lie about not gating content behind a pay wall as justification for subscription is an adequate reason to not purchase the game, but at least potential consumers can research that themselves.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3087

1/30/14 8:06:18 AM#46
The thing I find funny is that most of the people making a big deal about it were probably going to pre-order it anyways, or weren't going to play the game ever anyways.  So what's it matter.
  SuperNick

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/10/07
Posts: 399

1/30/14 8:10:03 AM#47

Why are people automatically assuming the worst? From my point of view, thinking that the Imperial race and "any alliance, any race" features won't be achievable by in-game means is illogical, you can't restrict things away from people who didn't choose to pre-order or buy xyz collector's edition. I'm sure a company with one of the most successful game franchises in history considered this well before armchair businessmen suddenly thought of it.

To me it seems quite clear, just like the horse, you will be able to achieve those things just fine; you'll just have to wait for them. What people here seem to be proposing is "no collectors? OK, no horse forever".

Wait and see what finishing all 3 alliance campaigns (new game+, new game++ as they're calling it) yields.

PS: What's with basically every thread degenerating into how F2P is a godsend to the industry? F2P games are mediocre at best. They went F2P because they made horrendous decisions in some areas, leading to that ultimate result. They did not go F2P because "no one wanted to pay a sub".

If I go to an Italian restaurant and it's crap, does that give me complete insight to say every Italian restaurant I go to from then on will be equally as bad? (Read: comparing upcoming games to a few select fails of the past)

  Ghabbo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/11
Posts: 194

1/30/14 8:10:50 AM#48

  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 568

1/30/14 8:18:08 AM#49
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Dewguy79
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by dumpcat

Originally posted by Vonatar
"The cost of anything unaffordable is unfair in the eyes of the person who can't afford it."

 

 

And they feel as if an injustice has been dealt to them....Gotta love the entitlement generation.

 

And it's a false argument.  Basically the straw man logical fallacy.

 

Most of the people that I see calling this out as a money grab are people that have purchased more expensive CEs in the past.  Many of them are also supporters of the subscription model.

 

There is a very large difference between not being able to afford something and feeling like something is designed to take advantage of the consumer.

 

Haha take advantage of its consumers oh man too funny!  How does a video game take advantage of their consumer?  You have a choice you buy it or you don't.  

 

I bet most of you already had your eso release complaint form filled out months ago.  All you had to do was insert whatever they were added to CE version.  

 

The monetization methods of any product or service can be designed in a way to take advantage of the consumer.  There are entire consumer advocacy groups designed to prevent this type of behavior and without them, things would be a lot worse for everyone.  Why?  Because a ton of people take the same stance that you are.

 

You are welcome to laugh about it all you want.  However, laughing at something does not change it's validity.

All sales are designed to take advantage of the consumer. It's a question of degrees.

I still struggle to see how Zenimax are taking advantage of the consumer to a degree warranting complaint. They are exercising typical supply and demand principles in my view, by selling something people want to buy in order to realise an early return on investment.

Prior to pre-order we all presumed that (a) Imperial is not a playable race, and (b) races are faction locked. Now we discover that neither restriction is absolute, if you are prepared to pre-order and/or buy the Imperial Edition.

Does it make a difference to the consumer that some people will be Imperials, or that some people will play as Khajiit in the Daggerfall Covenant? I can't see how, other than coveting what someone else has.

 

The lead designer explicitly stated that a subscription model was the best fit for TESO so that content wouldn't be locked behind pay walls.  Locking a full race behind a pay wall (the addition cost of the CE) is certainly locking content behind a pay wall despite the existence of the subscription.  It represents a complete disconnect between what was said and the actions taken be Zenimax.  That alone *should* be enough not to trust the company.

 

However, if you would like more.  Zenimax is expressly forbidding anyone from talking about actual game play (NDA) while offering presales of the product.  While I very much believe it is the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves prior to a purchase, Zenimax is actively attempting to prevent the consumer from educating themselves.  Instead, they are attempting to provide only the marketing message they would like available and are asking consumers to make a buying decision based on that.  Guess what?  That marketing message is designed to make a potential buyer buy, not to educate them about the pros and cons of the product.  This, more than anything else, is what warrants a complaint.

 

If Zenimax would simply drop the NDA, allow EVERYONE to talk about their experience with the game, allow video reviews to be posted to YouTube and run an open beta that allows potential consumers to try before buying, I would remove my complaints for the most part.  I still believe the flat out lie about not gating content behind a pay wall as justification for subscription is an adequate reason to not purchase the game, but at least potential consumers can research that themselves.

Making a playable race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall, in my opinion at least. It's almost entirely cosmetic, in pretty much the same way as giving people an exclusive mount.

 

As for initiating pre-orders while the game remains under NDA. I don't see the difference between that and the old days of gaming when you picked a box off the shelf, read the back, looked at the screenshots, and then took it home. Caveat emptor still applies, and if you're not satisfied with the information currently available then wait until you buy, or don't buy at all.

  raiders95

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/25/13
Posts: 20

1/30/14 8:23:46 AM#50

For me it's a NO !

Imperial is only a cosmetic thing that you "buy" by taking the CE.

If you cannot afford or don't want it, then just move on !

No race/alliance/pve/pvp/dungeons etc. will be removed from the game if you don't choose the CE, so stop crying !

 

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

1/30/14 8:26:37 AM#51
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by killion81

 

The lead designer explicitly stated that a subscription model was the best fit for TESO so that content wouldn't be locked behind pay walls.  Locking a full race behind a pay wall (the addition cost of the CE) is certainly locking content behind a pay wall despite the existence of the subscription.  It represents a complete disconnect between what was said and the actions taken be Zenimax.  That alone *should* be enough not to trust the company.

 

However, if you would like more.  Zenimax is expressly forbidding anyone from talking about actual game play (NDA) while offering presales of the product.  While I very much believe it is the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves prior to a purchase, Zenimax is actively attempting to prevent the consumer from educating themselves.  Instead, they are attempting to provide only the marketing message they would like available and are asking consumers to make a buying decision based on that.  Guess what?  That marketing message is designed to make a potential buyer buy, not to educate them about the pros and cons of the product.  This, more than anything else, is what warrants a complaint.

 

If Zenimax would simply drop the NDA, allow EVERYONE to talk about their experience with the game, allow video reviews to be posted to YouTube and run an open beta that allows potential consumers to try before buying, I would remove my complaints for the most part.  I still believe the flat out lie about not gating content behind a pay wall as justification for subscription is an adequate reason to not purchase the game, but at least potential consumers can research that themselves.

Making a playable race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall, in my opinion at least. It's almost entirely cosmetic, in pretty much the same way as giving people an exclusive mount.

 

As for initiating pre-orders while the game remains under NDA. I don't see the difference between that and the old days of gaming when you picked a box off the shelf, read the back, looked at the screenshots, and then took it home. Caveat emptor still applies, and if you're not satisfied with the information currently available then wait until you buy, or don't buy at all.

 

In your opinion, making a race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall.  However, charging an additional $20 (or whatever the difference is) to access an entire race with unique racial attributes certainly IS locking content behind a pay wall, opinions aside.  If any game adds an entirely new race, they will tout it as additional content.  They will not say they added a minor cosmetic feature of an entirely new race.  The fact that you have to pay more to access that content means it's locked behind a pay wall.

 

To address your second paragraph, the entire world has changed with the internet.  Social media and instantaneous communication means companies have an opportunity to prove their products are good, particularly digital products.  Hiding your product behind an NDA and offering presales is very close to the draconian practice of purchasing a game based on what you see on the back of the box.  I agree that they are similar.  However, I believe that technology and culture has changed enough to make previous practices undesirable.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3766

1/30/14 8:33:05 AM#52
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by killion81

 

The lead designer explicitly stated that a subscription model was the best fit for TESO so that content wouldn't be locked behind pay walls.  Locking a full race behind a pay wall (the addition cost of the CE) is certainly locking content behind a pay wall despite the existence of the subscription.  It represents a complete disconnect between what was said and the actions taken be Zenimax.  That alone *should* be enough not to trust the company.

 

However, if you would like more.  Zenimax is expressly forbidding anyone from talking about actual game play (NDA) while offering presales of the product.  While I very much believe it is the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves prior to a purchase, Zenimax is actively attempting to prevent the consumer from educating themselves.  Instead, they are attempting to provide only the marketing message they would like available and are asking consumers to make a buying decision based on that.  Guess what?  That marketing message is designed to make a potential buyer buy, not to educate them about the pros and cons of the product.  This, more than anything else, is what warrants a complaint.

 

If Zenimax would simply drop the NDA, allow EVERYONE to talk about their experience with the game, allow video reviews to be posted to YouTube and run an open beta that allows potential consumers to try before buying, I would remove my complaints for the most part.  I still believe the flat out lie about not gating content behind a pay wall as justification for subscription is an adequate reason to not purchase the game, but at least potential consumers can research that themselves.

Making a playable race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall, in my opinion at least. It's almost entirely cosmetic, in pretty much the same way as giving people an exclusive mount.

 

As for initiating pre-orders while the game remains under NDA. I don't see the difference between that and the old days of gaming when you picked a box off the shelf, read the back, looked at the screenshots, and then took it home. Caveat emptor still applies, and if you're not satisfied with the information currently available then wait until you buy, or don't buy at all.

 

In your opinion, making a race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall.  However, charging an additional $20 (or whatever the difference is) to access an entire race with unique racial attributes certainly IS locking content behind a pay wall, opinions aside.  If any game adds an entirely new race, they will tout it as additional content.  They will not say they added a minor cosmetic feature of an entirely new race.  The fact that you have to pay more to access that content means it's locked behind a pay wall.

 

To address your second paragraph, the entire world has changed with the internet.  Social media and instantaneous communication means companies have an opportunity to prove their products are good, particularly digital products.  Hiding your product behind an NDA and offering presales is very close to the draconian practice of purchasing a game based on what you see on the back of the box.  I agree that they are similar.  However, I believe that technology and culture has changed enough to make previous practices undesirable.

Rift CE locked "content":

 

Imperials are this games' version of the two-headed tartagon... boycott I say! 

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

1/30/14 8:38:50 AM#53
Originally posted by Iselin

Rift CE locked "content":

Imperials are this games' version of the two-headed tartagon... boycott I say! 

 

A mount that provides no advantage over any other mount obtained through in-game means is purely cosmetic.  To a degree, it is locking content, but a few cosmetic perks are commonly accepted as 'ok' for CEs (particularly mounts and companion pets).  That being said, it is significantly different than a playable race with unique racial traits.  This is the incomplete comparison logical fallacy.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3766

1/30/14 8:41:46 AM#54
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Iselin

Rift CE locked "content":

Imperials are this games' version of the two-headed tartagon... boycott I say! 

 

A mount that provides no advantage over any other mount obtained through in-game means is purely cosmetic.  To a degree, it is locking content, but a few cosmetic perks are commonly accepted as 'ok' for CEs (particularly mounts and companion pets).  That being said, it is significantly different than a playable race with unique racial traits.  This is the incomplete comparison logical fallacy.

A race that provides no advantage over any other race obtained through in game mean...

 

Or are you the last person in this forum who hasn't googled the skill lines or used the skill calculator that was linked here last week that shows just how mild the racial bonuses are?

 

  Betaguy

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2599

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/30/14 8:42:43 AM#55
The only backlash if from the few people here on these forums. Most major sites, got loads of pre-orders. Just a small vocal few on here starting all the drama.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1006

1/30/14 8:44:47 AM#56
I don't get the outrage... don't all games do stuff like this?
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2707

There... are... four... lights!

1/30/14 8:45:04 AM#57
Originally posted by Betaguy
The only backlash if from the few people here on these forums. Most major sites, got loads of pre-orders. Just a small vocal few on here starting all the drama.

A yes, 23.6% + 32.5% = 56.1% is a "small vocal few" indeed.

<= points at his avatar...

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5544

1/30/14 8:45:07 AM#58
Originally posted by lizardbones

The backlash of all those people preordering and buying the more expensive collector's editions?  Yeah, I bet it was worth it.

**

It's current #15 in pc game sales on Amazon.  The Imperial Edition is currently #2. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/software/1294221011/ref=pd_zg_hrsr_sw_2_3_last

**

The Imperial Edition is #6 in the general "Video Games" category.

http://www.amazon.com/best-sellers-video-games/zgbs/videogames/ref=pd_dp_ts_vg_1

I know this is going to sound like I'm hating on it, but look what it's up against.

 

#1 - Tomb Raider - A game that came out a year ago and is having a sale ($8.99).

#2 - Elder Scrolls Online Imperial - An Elder Scrolls MMORPG that just released it's pre-orders yesterday.

#3 - Max Payne 3 and Grand Theft Auto IV Bundle - Game that came out 2 years ago. Game that came out 6 years ago.

#4 - Bioshock Infinite - Game that came out 10 months ago and is on sale ($13.26). <- Good Deal

#5 - Hitman Absolution - Game that came out 2 years ago and is on sale ($7.49)

 

I don't know. Since it has like zero competition, I'm not sure we should be singing praises yet based on those stats. I don't think Amazon would be a great indicator anyway, but it this case it might actually be showing how poorly it's doing, not how well it's doing.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 568

1/30/14 8:46:47 AM#59
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by killion81

 

The lead designer explicitly stated that a subscription model was the best fit for TESO so that content wouldn't be locked behind pay walls.  Locking a full race behind a pay wall (the addition cost of the CE) is certainly locking content behind a pay wall despite the existence of the subscription.  It represents a complete disconnect between what was said and the actions taken be Zenimax.  That alone *should* be enough not to trust the company.

 

However, if you would like more.  Zenimax is expressly forbidding anyone from talking about actual game play (NDA) while offering presales of the product.  While I very much believe it is the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves prior to a purchase, Zenimax is actively attempting to prevent the consumer from educating themselves.  Instead, they are attempting to provide only the marketing message they would like available and are asking consumers to make a buying decision based on that.  Guess what?  That marketing message is designed to make a potential buyer buy, not to educate them about the pros and cons of the product.  This, more than anything else, is what warrants a complaint.

 

If Zenimax would simply drop the NDA, allow EVERYONE to talk about their experience with the game, allow video reviews to be posted to YouTube and run an open beta that allows potential consumers to try before buying, I would remove my complaints for the most part.  I still believe the flat out lie about not gating content behind a pay wall as justification for subscription is an adequate reason to not purchase the game, but at least potential consumers can research that themselves.

Making a playable race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall, in my opinion at least. It's almost entirely cosmetic, in pretty much the same way as giving people an exclusive mount.

 

As for initiating pre-orders while the game remains under NDA. I don't see the difference between that and the old days of gaming when you picked a box off the shelf, read the back, looked at the screenshots, and then took it home. Caveat emptor still applies, and if you're not satisfied with the information currently available then wait until you buy, or don't buy at all.

 

In your opinion, making a race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall.  However, charging an additional $20 (or whatever the difference is) to access an entire race with unique racial attributes certainly IS locking content behind a pay wall, opinions aside.  If any game adds an entirely new race, they will tout it as additional content.  They will not say they added a minor cosmetic feature of an entirely new race.  The fact that you have to pay more to access that content means it's locked behind a pay wall.

 

To address your second paragraph, the entire world has changed with the internet.  Social media and instantaneous communication means companies have an opportunity to prove their products are good, particularly digital products.  Hiding your product behind an NDA and offering presales is very close to the draconian practice of purchasing a game based on what you see on the back of the box.  I agree that they are similar.  However, I believe that technology and culture has changed enough to make previous practices undesirable.

"An entire race with unique racial attributes" is rather overstating it. It's a character model. As for the racial attributes, they have been designed, along with other systems in the game, to be of such minor importance that there really is no reason to choose a race/class combination on that basis (unless you are one of the 0.001% min/max crowd). You can offset any perceived benefit from a racial with enchantments anyway.

 

Yes, the world has changed, but it affords opportunity not obligation. An opportunity Zenimax has elected not to take by keeping the NDA in place, for whatever reason. However I choose not to be a conspiracy theorist and therefore not to see the NDA being used solely as a cloak to sell an inferior product. If you do, then best spend your cash down the pub instead I say.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5188

1/30/14 9:06:32 AM#60
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Vonatar
Originally posted by killion81

 

The lead designer explicitly stated that a subscription model was the best fit for TESO so that content wouldn't be locked behind pay walls.  Locking a full race behind a pay wall (the addition cost of the CE) is certainly locking content behind a pay wall despite the existence of the subscription.  It represents a complete disconnect between what was said and the actions taken be Zenimax.  That alone *should* be enough not to trust the company.

 

However, if you would like more.  Zenimax is expressly forbidding anyone from talking about actual game play (NDA) while offering presales of the product.  While I very much believe it is the consumer's responsibility to educate themselves prior to a purchase, Zenimax is actively attempting to prevent the consumer from educating themselves.  Instead, they are attempting to provide only the marketing message they would like available and are asking consumers to make a buying decision based on that.  Guess what?  That marketing message is designed to make a potential buyer buy, not to educate them about the pros and cons of the product.  This, more than anything else, is what warrants a complaint.

 

If Zenimax would simply drop the NDA, allow EVERYONE to talk about their experience with the game, allow video reviews to be posted to YouTube and run an open beta that allows potential consumers to try before buying, I would remove my complaints for the most part.  I still believe the flat out lie about not gating content behind a pay wall as justification for subscription is an adequate reason to not purchase the game, but at least potential consumers can research that themselves.

Making a playable race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall, in my opinion at least. It's almost entirely cosmetic, in pretty much the same way as giving people an exclusive mount.

 

As for initiating pre-orders while the game remains under NDA. I don't see the difference between that and the old days of gaming when you picked a box off the shelf, read the back, looked at the screenshots, and then took it home. Caveat emptor still applies, and if you're not satisfied with the information currently available then wait until you buy, or don't buy at all.

 

In your opinion, making a race only available to CE owners is not locking content behind a pay wall.  However, charging an additional $20 (or whatever the difference is) to access an entire race with unique racial attributes certainly IS locking content behind a pay wall, opinions aside.  If any game adds an entirely new race, they will tout it as additional content.  They will not say they added a minor cosmetic feature of an entirely new race.  The fact that you have to pay more to access that content means it's locked behind a pay wall.

 

To address your second paragraph, the entire world has changed with the internet.  Social media and instantaneous communication means companies have an opportunity to prove their products are good, particularly digital products.  Hiding your product behind an NDA and offering presales is very close to the draconian practice of purchasing a game based on what you see on the back of the box.  I agree that they are similar.  However, I believe that technology and culture has changed enough to make previous practices undesirable.

"An entire race with unique racial attributes" is rather overstating it. It's a character model. As for the racial attributes, they have been designed, along with other systems in the game, to be of such minor importance that there really is no reason to choose a race/class combination on that basis (unless you are one of the 0.001% min/max crowd). You can offset any perceived benefit from a racial with enchantments anyway.

 

Yes, the world has changed, but it affords opportunity not obligation. An opportunity Zenimax has elected not to take by keeping the NDA in place, for whatever reason. However I choose not to be a conspiracy theorist and therefore not to see the NDA being used solely as a cloak to sell an inferior product. If you do, then best spend your cash down the pub instead I say.

Except by keeping the NDA in place while trying to sell the game, it does make them look bad, if they really were seroius, they should lift the NDA, that their not, implies, rightly or wrongly, that they are afraid of what might happen if they did.

add that into the mix, and the arguments against can only gather more weight, if they really want people to buy this game, then they should at least have the decency to allow people to see exactly what it is their buying.

5 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 » Search