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General Discussion  » I guess sub. based games truly are dead

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182 posts found
  dumpcat

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 249

1/30/14 6:56:37 AM#121

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

  phantomghost

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/11
Posts: 635

"Kill me, my man kills you, that's how you lose."

1/30/14 7:10:37 AM#122
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

In the words of Tity Boi AKA 2 Chainz: "Truuuuuuu."

"I see they watchin' me and takin' notes on my moves, Run up on me it's all I want I ain't got nothin' to lose."

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17373

1/30/14 7:18:22 AM#123
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by asrlohz
Originally posted by rsealman

You are all missing the point.

Using one of the posters analogy of bicycles, lets say some vendor would advertise that in order for everyone to get proper quality maintained bicycles and some upgrades in the future you are required to pay them an "insurance" every month.

Ok, fine with that. That justifies the fee and there's no problem with that.

Now when you go get your bike, there's a surprise. All bikes are complete according to the vendor specs, the catch is that the bikes now come with crappy brakes by default, that weren't in the original spec.

For an extra fee can buy the better brakes. You feel a bit crappy about it but who doesn't want better brakes, right?

Wait till the vendor further down the line tells you that you have to pay for the seat. Enjoy the bumpy road.

Jokes aside, Zenimax is doing a plain cash-grab and is already contradicting what was advertised by Firor.

The new race is the 1st pay-wall , most likely of many to come if peeps swallow this one.

Digital Box + Monthly Fee + Content Pay-wall is really pushing the envelope.

Sorry but if you guys can't seem to grasp this, all hope is lost.

Pretty much right. I'm not planning on playing the imperial, but if I purchase the CE I want everything to be exclusive fluff. Not actual content that forces the people who want to play their favorite race to pay 20 bucks extra. And Imperial is a pretty popular race in TES.

Thing is, that it also contains convenience items such as a free horse and free rings of Mara which are both two very expensive items. The horse alone have been announced to cost about 15 000 septims.

Cash shop needs to be a non-tolerant zone. Either you take part of it or you don't. You can't offer extra content "Upgrades" if you're already paying for the extra monthly content with your subscription. And that's where our trust comes in. If we can't trust them to refuse all kinds of "extra" content, how can we trust them that they won't keep adding more of it? Just like the bike seat example you posed.

While I'm not a fan of gating content behind a DLC. That is a HORRIBLE analogy.

You are correct, it is a horrible analogy. I was just aboout to write the same as you but you beat me to it.

  User Deleted
1/30/14 7:38:34 AM#124
Originally posted by Yamota

The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?

This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.

So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.

Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.

 

Actually, OP the developers themselves claimed they went with the subscription model in order to allow players access to all  content without  additional "pay walls" to pass point X or acquire item Y in game. The cash shop was supposed to be for vanity items and we see how that worked out. These two preorder bonuses make them look hypocritical and at a future point if not immediately at start we know they will be up for sale. I am wondering if this option was of their own design, something the publisher forced on them in a cash grab, or a panic reaction to the feedback they received throughout beta testing? Considering the aim of your thread I will only mention if not dwell on the fact that these two "bonuses" go completely against the ideas of faction pride and faction value the developer stated that they wanted to establish for good AV3 PVP (the entire focus of end game) and proceeds to give them another shiner.

 

Oh they will make money by doing this. But I no longer believe how much money a game makes represents how good it is. And when you suddenly contradict your own stated core play values and ideas to make money in a cash grab you ruin your own reputation. I no longer trust... Just look at these forums man. Count the threads and comments on this subject. I am not the only one that feels that way.

  Havekk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/14/08
Posts: 1374

1/30/14 7:45:58 AM#125
Originally posted by Yamota

The whole point of getting a sub. based game is that everyone pays the same fee and get the same starting conditions. But lo and behold, collectors edition not only gives you bonus experience, a faster mount and a completely new race?

This is so wrong on atleast two ways. First, obviously, the fact that if you buy a collectors edition you will get significant exclusive content but also sets a precedence for the inevitable cash shop. Do you really think that if they offered this race in the collectors edition, they aren't going to offer the same or similar in the cash shop? Effectively turning this game to your typical F2P game, except it is not F2P. It is box+SUB and now also exclusive content which you need to pay for on top of the montly sub.

So true subscription based games, as we know it, are dead. RIP.

Either accept this cash shop plus P2P nonsense or move on from the MMO genre. Looking more and more to do the latter. Sad to see such a promising genre which started with UO (for me atleast) get turned into this.

 

What in the Sam hell are you talking about? You pay the sub and you get the game and the content for your character. The fact they're giving a race as a preorder item is no different then every game in the know world that gives free items/pets/mounts as bonuses to preorder. Its just note of that "I want everything" mentality that's ruining games to begin with. Why can't people be happy just playing the damn game? Everyone is always worried about what someone else has. Its like saying, hey! I pay a sub and I want that armor. Since I pay, I should get it as its content. Such bullshit.
  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1225

1/30/14 7:51:05 AM#126
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker. 

 

I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops. 

 

Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough. 

Crazkanuk

----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------

  aspekx

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2197

1/30/14 8:02:18 AM#127
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker. 

 

I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops. 

 

Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough. 

thank you.

 

'entitlement' has become the latest fad word from a certain propagand...i mean news outlet. i always hear Inigo Montoya when i see the word entitlement used.

 

it is in the nature of capitalism to create 'whiners'. why? because that's how the market works. people don't like something so they complain until a product or service gets changed or another is provided.

 

instead this guy wants you to not only stop feeling 'entitled' but he wants you to grind the wheels of capitalism's progress to a halt. 'just take what they give you or shut up,' is probably one of the more anticapitalist attitudes you can have.

 

where else in history have we heard that attitude? i dunno Stalinist Russia comes to mind where you have limited access to a limited set of choices in products or services. oh, and complainers end up in the gulags. Adam Smith is rolling over in his grave every time one of these uneducated bozos opens their mouth.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

  rockin_ufo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 376

Zoraï

1/30/14 8:23:23 AM#128

If you guys want to take if up the rear from a big company be my guest. I know all my friends have lost all interest in this game and will be taking our money elsewhere. It's a shame because ESO is actually a really fun game, but I'm not supporting bad business.

There's only 2 MMO left that do the sub right; FFXIV and EVE. They are also two of the more stable MMO released. ESO could share the same success if they stuck to their motto instead of switching things up last minute.

Whenever i step outside, somebody claims to see the light
It seems to me that all of us have lost our patience.
'cause everyone thinks they're right,
And nobody thinks that there just might
Be more than one road to our final destination--

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3876

1/30/14 8:26:25 AM#129
Originally posted by aspekx
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker. 

 

I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops. 

 

Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough. 

thank you.

 

'entitlement' has become the latest fad word from a certain propagand...i mean news outlet. i always hear Inigo Montoya when i see the word entitlement used.

 

it is in the nature of capitalism to create 'whiners'. why? because that's how the market works. people don't like something so they complain until a product or service gets changed or another is provided.

 

instead this guy wants you to not only stop feeling 'entitled' but he wants you to grind the wheels of capitalism's progress to a halt. 'just take what they give you or shut up,' is probably one of the more anticapitalist attitudes you can have.

 

where else in history have we heard that attitude? i dunno Stalinist Russia comes to mind where you have limited access to a limited set of choices in products or services. oh, and complainers end up in the gulags. Adam Smith is rolling over in his grave every time one of these uneducated bozos opens their mouth.

You're confusing Consumerism with Capitalism. Consumerists whine and hope for change. Capitalism is simpler: buy / do not buy... let your money do the talking.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

1/30/14 9:14:58 AM#130
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by muffins89
collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

Like a whole new race and any race/faction combination possible? Yeah, I dont think so...

Any race/faction doesn't cost you any extra you just have to buy any version of the game

There is three methods of payment for an MMO

F2P

B2P

P2P

For the first 2, having specific unique race and other exclusivity is important, it makes people spend more money, its games for the Have and Have not.

P2P is games with a SUB , it means you pay monthly fees to be granted access to every single content provided by the Game

Do you get it now, you pay to access content, all of the content for a flat fee !!

When you are locked from content in an Sub game, that means that nothing in the game will be safe from getting locked in the future. Think about it, 3 month down the line, to access the 3rd level of this dungeon, you have to upgrade your account to Founder's level, its only an $5 dollar upgrade to your account, then 6 month down the line, to have access to cross faction , you only have to upgrade your account for a measly $2 dollars to the Mercenary pack.

These ideas shouldn't exist in an Sub game, it exists in an F2P and B2P to generate profit for the companies, it shouldn't exist in an SUB game.

Why you might ask, its because you are already paying monthly access fees, so that you don't get nickel and dimed for content.

Locking a race is being nickel and dimed for content, and its just the beginning.

I hope your wallet is big enough

Personally I don't care how good this game is, their business model just muddy the water so badly that I would rather play other games without having to worry about always having to pay more just to be on par with everyone else.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Ratero

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 322

1/30/14 9:30:34 AM#131
Originally posted by muffins89
collectors editions have been giving exclusive digital content for a decade.

Here it is in a nut shell.

Everyone is offered the same pre-order choices.

If you want the fluff that they offer in the higher costing pre-orders then buy it.  If you don't want the fluff in the higher costing pre-orders then don't buy it.  Don't complain about what your "neighbor" buys, you made your decision for what ever reason... live with it.

Ratero.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

1/30/14 9:32:35 AM#132
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??

Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth

F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,

Sub Based games does not

You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race

How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here

the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.

If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.

I surely hope your Wallet is big enough

This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P

 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  stealthbr

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1059

1/30/14 11:13:27 AM#133
Originally posted by Lucioon

What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??

Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth

F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,

Sub Based games does not

You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race

How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here

the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.

If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.

I surely hope your Wallet is big enough

This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P

It's already been confirmed by the FAQ that the Imperial DLC will be made available at the ESO Store after launch. I also highly doubt the Explorer's Pack won't be made available at the ESO Store after launch as well. What will be next though? Thieves' Guild DLC? Dark Brotherhood DLC? Housing DLC? So much for Firor's "no pay-gates in ESO because we are a P2P game" crap talk.

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2390

1/30/14 11:19:47 AM#134
Originally posted by Lucioon
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??

Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth

F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,

Sub Based games does not

You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race

How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here

the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.

If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.

I surely hope your Wallet is big enough

This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P

 

Lucioon is right.  Vote with your wallet and hit them where it hurts.  My guess is this game will be f2p in 6 months anyway.

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/30/14 11:31:12 AM#135
Originally posted by asrlohz

They are ethnic. Just look here. It's the daggerfall covenant talking about the other races. And all the other factions do the same.

And for example, one of the quests I managed to play in Cologne contained an Argonian in the Aldmeri Dominion whom my Wood Elf was confused to find there. The only response I had was "What's an Argonian doing outside of The Ebonheart Pack". She replied that she didn't follow the pack. So if I play an Argonian my character would still be surprised. Then there are quests where you interact with Queen Ayrenn too. Why should she trust the enemies? 

Regarding the gear switching mechanic, look here. You can clearly see a low level character with shit gear being transformed into the "badass" looking gear.

And about the CE, it's not that it includes extra stuff, it's that it isn't exclusive. Anyone can buy it even if they only purchase the standard edition. So they can just upgrade their version of the game and get access to all that stuff. Just like how you would purchase a cool skin for your armour in a cash shop. Purchasing the physical Imperial Edition doesn't grant you anything exclusive other than the physical items.

If you join TESO a year from now, you can just pay $20 and get the same content the CE people got. So it's like the cashshop in Guildwars 2 where you could purchase gear skins. 

And the reason to why subs don't work longterm is because game companies are doing "this" to their fanbase. They're allowing everyone to pay for convenience and it hurts the longevity of the game. People would make alts if they wanted to play with their friends on another faction. Now they don't have to and that will shorten the longevity for the game. Same with the horses and rings of Mara, those were expensive items in the game according to Paul Sage, but now you can just pay 20 bucks and get them instantly. 

Mate, you need to start reading my posts instead of just jumping to conclusions. I provide sources, you provide assumptions. But I'm not surprised. It's obvious that you favour the F2P business model. 

Taking the most important point first, you are also providing assumptions, in regard to my preferences.  I only play games that include a sub option, and I always sub.  It's a better experience.  I just don't get bothered by the games including other revenue mechanisms that I am in no way required to use.

I don't actually like them getting rid of the race lock.  I never claimed I did.  But it doesn't violate the lore, every faction has members of races present, as you point out in your example, who aren't from the  three "primary" races for that faction.  I can separate out whether I like something from whether it is appropriate.

Given the way they implemented races, it really doesn't matter anyway, because it appears to be the case that (narratively speaking) the game never recognizes your race.  No reports from convention gameplay or official releases so much as imply that the game gives your race narrative weight.  Properly implemented races would include things like Argonians not liking Dunmer very much even though they are allied, and Altmer looking down on any character who isn't a High Elf (including their Bosmer and Khajit allies.)  They probably determined doing such an implementation would cost more than it was worth.  Perfect costs a lot more than good enough.

As for being able to upgrade later, that isn't really a cash shop thing per se, it is pretty normal for late adopters to be able to pay a fee for access to any digital items that were included in a collector's edition.

Originally posted by Lucioon

P2P is games with a SUB , it means you pay monthly fees to be granted access to every single content provided by the Game

You are incorrect.  There is no guarantee that you get anything but access to the game for the price of a sub.  It is not inherent in the model that everything be included in that price.  P2P is about not letting anyone in the door who refuses to pay the access fee, not about letting everyone who pays the access fee into the VIP room.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

  dumpcat

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/06/12
Posts: 249

1/30/14 12:13:01 PM#136
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker. 

 

I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops. 

 

Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough. 

Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.

All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.

But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6521

"I fight so you don't have to."

 
OP  1/30/14 4:21:58 PM#137
Originally posted by Lucioon
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

What you are really saying is, As a gamer who really wanted to play this game, keep your mouth shut and if they screw with you then let them right??

Sub based games does not have locked content from the beginning, that is the truth

F2P and B2P games have locked and unique exclusive content to generate profit,

Sub Based games does not

You can always have fluff that the game company charges money for, but not locked Race

How important is the Imperial race, not really that important in my personal opinion, but that is not the issue here

the issue here is that ESO is an SUB based game, you pay an Monthly Access fee to access their content, Content that is supposed to be 100% accessible for every single paying customer.

If ESO can lock a race behind a pay gate, what can't they lock behind a pay gate in the future.

I surely hope your Wallet is big enough

This is not about entitlement , its about the payment process. If they wanted to lock content behind pay gates, then they should have just went B2P

 

Very well put. The point is not the imperial race or a special mount, the point is that sub. based game gives access to everything for everyone. And that is not bloody entitlement, that is what you get for paying a box price and a fixed monthly fee. The way sub. based games have always worked like.

And with this debacle I can fucking guarantee you that races, weapons, spells, quests and all kind of goodies will be put in the cash shop. Effectively turning this game into your regular F2P game, except you have to pay a box price, and sub. fee. Idiotic. Why would I then not just play  F2P game then?

  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6521

"I fight so you don't have to."

 
OP  1/30/14 4:25:18 PM#138
Originally posted by dumpcat
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker. 

 

I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops. 

 

Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough. 

Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.

All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.

But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.

Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.

  killion81

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 894

1/30/14 4:29:50 PM#139
Originally posted by CazNeerg

As for being able to upgrade later, that isn't really a cash shop thing per se, it is pretty normal for late adopters to be able to pay a fee for access to any digital items that were included in a collector's edition.

 

Actually, that's exactly the definition of a cash shop.  A shop in which you can pay additional cash to unlock content otherwise not available.

  Skeeter50

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/12
Posts: 155

1/30/14 4:32:43 PM#140
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by dumpcat
Originally posted by CrazKanuk
Originally posted by dumpcat

The whining on these forums is embarrassing to say the least.

This entitlement mentality is spreading like a disease....dam socialism is infecting everyone in every market and it is getting old.

If you want these pre-order items get off of your ass and buy them...problem solved.

If you can't afford them  - do something about that situation.

If you are unwilling to purchase them - so be it, that is your decision.

You are NOT entitled to these items and Zenimax does not owe you a thing.

They made a product...if you don't want to purchase that product...move along.

In other words...grow up.

First of all, your commentary on socialism is wildly misinformed and hurts every ounce of your credibility. I feel like the next thing that's going to come out of your mouth is "damn commies!" like some Cold War era factory worker. 

 

I can't agree entirely with the OP, but I'm not a fan of someone further monetizing a game that I'm already paying for, either. I mean, sure, there may be some vanity items, but I don't think it's fair to hide content behind cash shops. 

 

Basically, your mentality is "You guys are whiners! Ok, now jam it in me! Yay capitalism!" while you're bent over a barrel with your pants around your ankles. There's nothing wrong with "no". Even whining about it here and there. Games are becoming more expensive to make, and they'll monetize any way that they can, but the only way they're ever going to know when enough is enough is by people telling them it's enough. 

Actually I've been around long enough to know what socialism is. I am spot on. I'm no pacifist so your disgusting bent over a barrel analogy will never happen hypothetically or in reality.

All I am saying is stop bitching and either buy it or don't. They owe you nothing and you don't have to support them with your wallet.

But for the love of gaming...stop the whining.

Wtf do you think forums are for. For people like you to tell people to stfu or worship the developers? No. People come here to express their opinions. If you cant handle that, you are the one who needs to leave the forums.

You admit you do not care to pre -order(play at release), so what is your AGENDA?

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