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General Discussion  » Zenimax - it takes work to make a decision this bad

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255 posts found
  Solar_Prophet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 577

1/29/14 4:19:05 PM#21

OP has points. If this were a F2P or B2P title, it wouldn't be such a big deal. But pay-gating non-fluff content in a P2P game? That's BS. The whole reason people prefer the sub model is because that stuff isn't supposed to happen. Everyone pays the same, everyone gets equal access.

It doesn't bother me much because I don't really care about the game, but while the OP is taking things perhaps a bit overboard, I can definitely understand why he's upset.

Today's message is brought to you by the Federal Reserve! Printing two million more dollars by the time you finish reading this post!

  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2944

1/29/14 4:23:30 PM#22
I just can't comprehend all of the whining. During the beta time period, there seems to be an overwhelming majority that disliked the fact that they couldn't play every race in any alliance. Perhaps they actually listened to the beta response and made a compromise with the preorder process giving people what they wanted? If this makes the majority happy for a change in direction, isn't that a good thing? Who cares if you think it is a cash grab or a lie. Again its the same question. If they are accommodating a request from beta feedback and reacting to some negative press, is it not good that they reversed course to some degree? Is this not  more in line with the single player games now?????

There Is Always Hope!

  Stimz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 71

1/29/14 4:24:05 PM#23
Originally posted by JJ82
Originally posted by Stimz
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Stimz
but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

 

It's not the first game to give special stuff for a CE people.... Almost every game these days does that. And I mean... Its to play as an Imperial...It not exactly a special race...

Can you name another subscription based game that offered an exclusive race only to special edition buyers? And no, you down playing it means nothing to what is being spoken about which is having to spend more for the FULL GAME which seems to only be available to those that buy the imperial edition.

Something I have only seen with F2P games like Neverwinter which offered the special type of Drow for its founders pack.

I guess you guys are not the type of people who feel," Well, I paid a couple bucks more, maybe I should get something special", Types. Personally I feel like the collectors edition is well worth it, I will never touch the imperial of course, I just want the xp rings, and the nice 5 day early access. I mean... I feel like if a game is going to give something special, it shouldn't be able to be achieved again. If I paid 30 extra dollars, I want to have that item, I don't want people who buy the game 2 years down the road to have it, I'M a founder, not them. But I guess you guys don't understand that somehow. I mean...  I think its the coolest thing ever, and I'm actually really excited for it.

  Of course, Like I said, You can always upgrade to the CE, so its not working the way I wanted it to, but at least I can be an Argonian no matter what Alliance Im in, C:

  VincerKaden

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 460

1/29/14 4:37:24 PM#24

Seems pretty well-received on Facebook. So it might turn out okay. The race is just a skin anyway, isn't it?

 

Play or do not. It's not really a big deal for me.

  laserit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1376

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

1/29/14 4:39:34 PM#25
Originally posted by Margulis

I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

 

Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this!!  What is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

 

And the BIGGEST ISSUE:  This isn't a F2P game!!!  If it was you could get away with this, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE!  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

 

You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

I wanted to be JEDI

 

F#$@ Zenimax

Zenimax kicked my dog

  seafirex

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 240

1/29/14 4:42:23 PM#26

Give it time they will let you experience the imperial even without buying  the CE version, after a while that the game is out they will put it in with a patch .

Because too much people would have complain about it. People will be angry at them for making them spend money on the CE version of the game just to find out that after 6 months or 1 year down the road it was given to all, the dev will apologies and give the players some treats to forget the mistake.  Could be a mount or something else, like all of them do when they mess up something.

Typical mmorpg advertisement more they get attention the better it is for them .  I could be wrong but i am pretty sure at this point something similar will play out.

Let's give them time to sort out issue's. 

Personally i am not getting the game when it comes out for now at least. There is a few thing i need them to fix first of all before i buy it. But i can understand the frustration some people have i would have loved also to be able to create one of those imperials.

  Hariken

Elite Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 423

1/29/14 4:43:17 PM#27
Originally posted by TdogSkal

As long as Gamers keep allowing companies to do this, they will keep doing it.

 

Same with DLC.  Look at Rome 2. Upon release it also had a DLC at release.  Which should never ever happen but because games allow it, these companies are going to keep doing it.   It is unacceptable to release a game and a DLC on the same day, that is a huge kick in the teeth to your fans but games do it all the time because WE gamers have accepted it and allowed it to happen.

 

Same thing here. A box sale and P2P should not have extra locked content that requires more fees but since other companies have done it and it has gone well enough others copy it.

We gamers are to blame for the sad state the current gaming industry is in.  We allowed this to happen, now we have to deal with it.

Your so right. As a gamer I'M tired of this from U.S. game companies. Tired of these so called AAA games and the way they treat gamer's. I'M not going to buy into this anymore. The more we put up with this the worse it will get. The sad part is they will make a ton of money on this too. But not from me anymore.

  Katilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 634

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

1/29/14 4:43:55 PM#28

I highly doubt anyone complaining on this forum has EVER bought a CE of an MMO, otherwise you will realize that every single game that offers a CE has special items that you ONLY get with the CE.... hence the extra money, this is nothing new people....I personally always spend the extra for the in game goodies I get for them. 

  SmellyNanner

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 143

1/29/14 4:43:59 PM#29

I really was super excited for this game. I'm still excited, but after a hint of what the future will look like in terms of business, NTY. If I'm subscribing, I deserve all of the content in the game.. ALL of it, none I have to pay for.

 

Like SWTOR, when I subscribed, everything was unlocked, 100%. There were still things I could purchase from the cartel shop, but none of it was actualy game content..

This is just stupid... If it were F2P, cool, but this is ridiculous. 

Looks like I'll keep on waitin' for WildStar.

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

1/29/14 4:44:01 PM#30
Originally posted by Margulis

I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

 

Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this!!  What is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

 

And the BIGGEST ISSUE:  This isn't a F2P game!!!  If it was you could get away with this, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE!  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

 

You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

anyone can find negativity and hate about anything on the internet.  "public backlash"  comes from a vocal minority of people who try to turn nothing into something because they feel they are not getting enough attention on the interwebs.  you are being overly dramatic.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Jyiiga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1008

1/29/14 4:44:58 PM#31

It has been proven on these very forums, multiple times, that there is a considerable group of players interested in subscription based games. The most played MMO titles in the world are subscription based.

Every single F2P game I have played in the past few years, has been a nickle and dime joke.

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  1/29/14 4:54:44 PM#32
Originally posted by keithian
I just can't comprehend all of the whining. During the beta time period, there seems to be an overwhelming majority that disliked the fact that they couldn't play every race in any alliance. Perhaps they actually listened to the beta response and made a compromise with the preorder process giving people what they wanted? If this makes the majority happy for a change in direction, isn't that a good thing? Who cares if you think it is a cash grab or a lie. Again its the same question. If they are accommodating a request from beta feedback and reacting to some negative press, is it not good that they reversed course to some degree? Is this not  more in line with the single player games now?????

You really can't comprehend it, or you refuse to comprehend it?  Because it's pretty simple - they are paylocking content that should be a given to everyone in a box sale + sub P2P game.  CE editions or preorders of an MMO should come with vanity items and fluff stuff for a P2P MMO - not an entire playable race.  You can continue to downplay it or minimize it all you want, but it's an extremely shady business practice especially after them specifically saying they would NOT do stuff like this.

 

 

  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  1/29/14 4:56:34 PM#33
Originally posted by Katilla

I highly doubt anyone complaining on this forum has EVER bought a CE of an MMO, otherwise you will realize that every single game that offers a CE has special items that you ONLY get with the CE.... hence the extra money, this is nothing new people....I personally always spend the extra for the in game goodies I get for them. 

Oh... care to tell me the last P2P sub model mmo that had a race in the pre-order or CE edition?

  Xodic

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/27/03
Posts: 23

1/29/14 4:56:44 PM#34

Most of you are missing the fundamental lack of principles that is taking place here. This is a subscription game, people love this payment model due to the fact that you are entitled to ALL content  via a monthly fee. What these clowns are doing is selling additional content with no regards to their previous statements on such nonsense. This in fact could be the start of a long line of content abuse; what’s next? Imagine a payment model where not only do you have to purchase the game, pay the monthly fee, but also pay for levels beyond 20, or pay for new areas, or pay additional fees to increase your crafting ability. This, in a nut shell, is basically what is taking place here. There is absolutely no need for people to defend this behavior. People feel betrayed, and have every right and logical sense to be upset at the big-wig who made such a bold and carless decision to go this route with their “special edition”.

I went out and bought a PS4 for this game, which I am certainly still going to play, but some of the comments above hold true; if we continue to allow this “business first” approach into our gaming world it will continue to go downhill. I’m not sure if many of you remember the golden days,  where a group of prodigy’s set out on a course to make a game that people love, for the love of games, instead of making games where people stumble into wallets first, for the love of money. 

  ArChWind

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/11
Posts: 485

1/29/14 4:57:14 PM#35

Don't sweat it. They will make it free eventually including CE stuff.

Something similar happened in EQ2. People that were vets and had played for 8 and 9 years had some items that were rewards for paying subs for these years.

Now think about it a min. Guy pays $15 a month for 5 years to get a item that was never available to anyone else unless they had spent the same 5 years. That comes out to 900 bucks that was spent on the game and the reward was very nice, So now one day SOE decided that the vets program had caused a major spread across the player base so they decided to put many of these so called one of a kind veteran rewards on a NPC that if you did a daily quest you could get the same item within 10 days of playing.

Taking it a step further these items that were 8 and 9 years of commitment which cost the vets `$1800 could be gotten from this NPC buy simply playing the game every day for 30 days.

It will happen and you’re going to rage and rage. I guarantee you it will happen.

The iron sphere turns.

  Drakynn

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/08
Posts: 2051

1/29/14 5:00:20 PM#36
Originally posted by Margulis
Originally posted by keithian
I just can't comprehend all of the whining. During the beta time period, there seems to be an overwhelming majority that disliked the fact that they couldn't play every race in any alliance. Perhaps they actually listened to the beta response and made a compromise with the preorder process giving people what they wanted? If this makes the majority happy for a change in direction, isn't that a good thing? Who cares if you think it is a cash grab or a lie. Again its the same question. If they are accommodating a request from beta feedback and reacting to some negative press, is it not good that they reversed course to some degree? Is this not  more in line with the single player games now?????

You really can't comprehend it, or you refuse to comprehend it?  Because it's pretty simple - they are paylocking content that should be a given to everyone in a box sale + sub P2P game.  CE editions or preorders of an MMO should come with vanity items and fluff stuff for a P2P MMO - not an entire playable race.  You can continue to downplay it or minimize it all you want, but it's an extremely shady business practice especially after them specifically saying they would NOT do stuff like this.

 

 

This.I got no problem with CE editions in general and most only offer vanity/convenience  items and titles.But an entire playable race no...

Also after making all sorts of arguments about why races were faction locked and some of them good ones it seems it was all BS and it was only done to monetize the game.I don't have any trust in the devs now.

  Katilla

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 634

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

1/29/14 5:00:42 PM#37
Originally posted by SmellyNanner

I really was super excited for this game. I'm still excited, but after a hint of what the future will look like in terms of business, NTY. If I'm subscribing, I deserve all of the content in the game.. ALL of it, none I have to pay for.

 

Like SWTOR, when I subscribed, everything was unlocked, 100%. There were still things I could purchase from the cartel shop, but none of it was actualy game content..

This is just stupid... If it were F2P, cool, but this is ridiculous. 

Looks like I'll keep on waitin' for WildStar.

yeah and I got the CE of SWTOR... it game with a BUNCH of in game items, including a speeder nobody else could get, and a nifty little statue...like i said ALL CE versions come with in game items of some sort.

  Skilial

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/09/07
Posts: 31

1/29/14 5:05:15 PM#38

Just don't buy the game. Voice your disdain with your wallet. I was considering buying this game, but thanks to OP (even though it was over the top), I won't dare spend any money on it. This is going for Wildstar and EQN, too. I am tired of the genre and more importantly tired of complaining about features, gameplay, fees, subs, options, and everything else.

I will admit games these days are extremely beautiful, have nice sounds and effects, but there is no imagination. EQN may have the best idea by combining Minecraft and EQ to make something nice, but I will wait to see if players are still around after 6 months.

TL;DR: Just don't buy it. You only provide positive reinforcement to gaming companies to milk more money from your pockets.

  JeroKane

Elite Member

Joined: 2/21/06
Posts: 4837

1/29/14 5:05:15 PM#39
Originally posted by keithian
I just can't comprehend all of the whining. During the beta time period, there seems to be an overwhelming majority that disliked the fact that they couldn't play every race in any alliance. Perhaps they actually listened to the beta response and made a compromise with the preorder process giving people what they wanted? If this makes the majority happy for a change in direction, isn't that a good thing? Who cares if you think it is a cash grab or a lie. Again its the same question. If they are accommodating a request from beta feedback and reacting to some negative press, is it not good that they reversed course to some degree? Is this not  more in line with the single player games now?????

Yes they listened. They saw how popular the Empire race was and put it behind a 80 bucks PAY wall!

Nothing but an ordinary cash grab!

I was very interested in ESO, playing the beta weekend 2 weeks ago.

But this kind of crap is an Instant turn off for me! It means they have no faith in the game and desperately try to grab as much cash upfront as possible!

I am not going to touch this game with a 10 foot pole!

 

  CazNeerg

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 2220

"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb." Dark Helmet

1/29/14 5:08:50 PM#40

Originally posted by iridescence

Originally posted by Stimz
but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that. 

I am.  Want more, pay more, sounds perfectly fair.

Originally posted by JJ82

Can you name another subscription based game that offered an exclusive race only to special edition buyers?

Star Trek Online's lifetime subscription option included an exclusive race, and at launch it was sub only.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

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