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General Discussion  » Zenimax - it takes work to make a decision this bad

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254 posts found
  Margulis

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/14/08
Posts: 1643

 
OP  1/29/14 3:18:02 PM#1

I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

 

The big issue:  This isn't a F2P game!  If it was you could get away with charging extra for an entire race, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE.  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

 

Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this - what is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

 

You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

  zimike

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/25/08
Posts: 124

1/29/14 3:25:16 PM#2
Originally posted by Margulis

I've defended the game here and I stick by my opinions that the GAME itself is a lot better than what it is made out to be.  But this decision with the CE and pre-orders has seriously got to be one of the WORST ideas I have ever seen a company make. 

 

Zenimax, you are already battling a negative public eye, with articles coming out about predicted failures, most likely to flop, hate all over the internet, etc etc.  And this was JUST starting to turn around some after the last beta.  There was a new positive spin from a lot of people.  Obviously not all, but quite a few.  Now you go and do this!!  What is going on with your heads?!  Is it really worth a few extra CE purchases from people who really want to be an Imperial to incur the MASSIVE backlash and hate this decision is provoking, and subsequent lost sales?  This decision isn't just going to go away, for the entirety of the game's life people will talk about it, see Imperials running around and ask "I want to be an Imperial how do I get to be that?"  "Oh you can't unless you got the CE when it launched."

 

And the BIGGEST ISSUE:  This isn't a F2P game!!!  If it was you could get away with this, but you are asking for box sale, plus sub (P2P game) and STILL pay locking content.  And this isn't just some dumb costume or mount, it is an ENTIRE RACE!  And this is after you said you wouldn't do this sort of thing!

 

You have 2 months to fix this Zenimax, make it available to everyone.  Because you are doing WAYYYYYY more harm to yourself financially as it stands with the public backlash and hate than the small boost you would get from a few extra CE sales.

You may be going a bit over the top, but you have some points. Surely they have resources invested in a good PR and marketing team, lets hope they use them wisely.

  Bad.dog

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 1028

1/29/14 3:28:55 PM#3
And the fun has just begun ...wait until folks get tired of running around in game looking like they have a carrot stuck up their ass
  TdogSkal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 1259

Do not fear death, Death will come a knocking anytime it wants.

1/29/14 3:29:38 PM#4

As long as Gamers keep allowing companies to do this, they will keep doing it.

 

Same with DLC.  Look at Rome 2. Upon release it also had a DLC at release.  Which should never ever happen but because games allow it, these companies are going to keep doing it.   It is unacceptable to release a game and a DLC on the same day, that is a huge kick in the teeth to your fans but games do it all the time because WE gamers have accepted it and allowed it to happen.

 

Same thing here. A box sale and P2P should not have extra locked content that requires more fees but since other companies have done it and it has gone well enough others copy it.

We gamers are to blame for the sad state the current gaming industry is in.  We allowed this to happen, now we have to deal with it.

Sooner or Later

  spankybus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 1164

"Don''t touch that squirrel''s nuts!" - Willy Wonka

1/29/14 3:33:40 PM#5
If I read it correctly, people who buy the CE can play any race in any alliance. Wait til that one hits,

Frank 'Spankybus' Mignone
www.spankybus.com
-3d Artist & Compositor
-Writer
-Professional Amature

  Keldor837

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 106

1/29/14 3:41:05 PM#6

I understand your outrage over the matter and share it. But the fact is that all you're doing by posting this in this way is subjecting yourself to the trolls and fanboi's. There's been enough online blogs and forums raging about the individual pre-order incentives and people crying foul because the developers have been promising one thing while the higher-ups in the company have decided to do another.

Something to keep in mind is that while the developers may very well have not wanted pay-gates or such things. It's the people higher up that control the money flow that gauged whether they'll make more money in both short-term and long-term from such decisions. Whether it was the right/best one will be determined eventually, as of right now the cat's out of the bag. What you should really be focusing on is pointing out the disparity between what the developers want and are trying to do and what the investor's and accountants need. Ultimately, it's a business looking to make money. They likely have a whole department of people that analyze the market beyond simply box sales, and look at company net gains and losses. If the companies that are setting these pay gates are making a profit and the outrage caused by their under-handedness isn't outweighing the gains. Then of course a company that's going to break out in the online gaming community is going to follow suit.

  Zinzan

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 1368

1/29/14 3:44:57 PM#7
Originally posted by mari3k
[mod edit]

 

This is the problem though, the pre-order bonuses are significant, more so than usual for a subs game. It's not just the usual fluff, if you don't pre-order you will miss out on content options and apparently a whole race if you don't pre-order the CE.

im not too happy about this, I'm still not sure if I want to buy this game now at all.

Expresso gave me a Hearthstone beta key.....I'm so happy :)

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

1/29/14 3:46:14 PM#8
Originally posted by mari3k
[mod edit]

 

If it has more than 20 hours of content its more than worth the box price (which included the first month playtime), most single player games charge the same box price for less game, so pre-ordering most mmo's is fine

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1248

1/29/14 3:54:25 PM#9

Agree. They completely went full retard with these decisions. I liked the fact that races were locked and now if I don't pre-order the game or buy the CE I'm going to be a second class citizen within the game? Seriously, fuck that. This is going to turn so many people off the game.

 

 

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

1/29/14 3:55:46 PM#10
OP has points.
  Stimz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 72

1/29/14 4:03:47 PM#11
but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1248

1/29/14 4:06:33 PM#12
Originally posted by Stimz
but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

 

  Katilla

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/09
Posts: 640

"Who needs reality....i have a good game right here..."

1/29/14 4:07:11 PM#13
on 2/2/14 Target is selling pre-order cards that not only get you beta access, but you can also be any race/class as well and its only $1 to get one. They sent the wrong ones to the store without the beta code scratch off and had to recall them until 2/2 when they ship the cards....just sayin'
  Stimz

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/03/12
Posts: 72

1/29/14 4:08:35 PM#14
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Stimz
but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

 

It's not the first game to give special stuff for a CE people.... Almost every game these days does that. And I mean... Its to play as an Imperial...It not exactly a special race...

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1770

1/29/14 4:09:01 PM#15
Zenimax will feel justified when some people actually buy into that.  Then they will be able to point and say, "see, players want that and are willing to pay a lot extra for it".

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 948

1/29/14 4:09:14 PM#16

It takes work for a normal person to make a decision this bad, its effortless for this development team however. it proves everything they have said about the reasons for using this piss poor DaoC design is a complete JOKE.

We could have had a real TES MMO if it wasn't in the hands of Firor.

No closed faction lands. No hidden away PvP land to fight over, instead have an actual world at war. No idiotic racial locks. None of this "class skill" crap and have real freedom. Some kind of in game "foundry" to build content with. Combat that hits home. complete open world (no, part of the world being open is not open world). No crafting skill limits.

Now we get all the DaoC design limits, F2P style perks that go around them and a ton of time and resources spent trying to make the game still seem like an SRPG with voice-overs......

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  lugal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/13/08
Posts: 551

1/29/14 4:09:35 PM#17
Lol! People preordering a video game. Some things never change.
About playable race, who cares, does it really change the game? Is one race better than another stat wise? If it is just a skin, wtfc!

Roses are red
Violets are blue
The reviewer has a mishapen head
Which means his opinion is skewed
...Aldous.MF'n.Huxley

  JJ82

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/13
Posts: 948

1/29/14 4:12:25 PM#18
Originally posted by Stimz
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Stimz
but... you can just upgrade to the CE at any time, and be an imperial, so.,.... I dont see the problem.

So really if you want the full game you have to pay what? $80? $90? (plus a sub of course) I'm really not OK with that.

 

It's not the first game to give special stuff for a CE people.... Almost every game these days does that. And I mean... Its to play as an Imperial...It not exactly a special race...

Can you name another subscription based game that offered an exclusive race only to special edition buyers? And no, you down playing it means nothing to what is being spoken about which is having to spend more for the FULL GAME which seems to only be available to those that buy the imperial edition.

Something I have only seen with F2P games like Neverwinter which offered the special type of Drow for its founders pack.

"People who tell you you’re awesome are useless. No, dangerous.

They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/

  Ziegler

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 143

1/29/14 4:14:30 PM#19

I tried...I tried really hard.....

 

but nope...I just...DGAF

This game has been been a trainwreck in the works ever since the legal battles about it half a dozen years ago and looks like it is gaining speed coming round the bend. Casey Jones leading the Marketing team?

 

 

  Ziegler

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 143

1/29/14 4:17:36 PM#20
Originally posted by JJ82

Something I have only seen with F2P games like Neverwinter which offered the special type of Drow for its founders pack.

As much as I loath NW and Cryptic, in due fairness...the "HotN Drow" was just a reskin of the normal drow that others could play 60 days after launch....

 

Hmm....wonder how soon "normal" subscribers will be able to  purchase an Imperial after launch.

 

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