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75 posts found
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2889

There... are... four... lights!

1/29/14 12:08:57 PM#21

They do it for a simple reason... because there will always be people to buy it and find excuses for such business practices.

 

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  DrSmaSh

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/04
Posts: 463

Be yourself

1/29/14 12:10:09 PM#22

Nice post OP, I fully agree. It is very shady to be offering such pre-orders when even NDA hasn't been lifted. Sadly, too many people will buy in to this and support such bad business practices.

Wait for the finished produced before you judge it, goes for positive or negative threads. Sadly current trend in MMOs is not looking too good. If you pre-order, thus pay for the game before it's done and said game turns out to be shit - you are supporting the negative trend in MMOs (or even games in general).

Anyways, nice post.

Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...

  Vannor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2998

1/29/14 12:10:13 PM#23

Where the hell does it say you can play any race in any alliance if you pre order? Seriously...

Either EVERYONE is an idiot and can't understand things or I'm missing something. 

EDIT: Nevermind, just got the email where it says it. This is dumb. If this doesn't change then I'm not gunna play this game. I was going to pre-order anyway.. but if this is a sign of how they are going to do business for the game's lifespan then I don't want any part of it.

  IGaveUp

Novice Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 272

I can't pull it off. I gave up.

1/29/14 12:12:50 PM#24
Originally posted by Vannor

Where the hell does it say you can play any race in any alliance if you pre order? Seriously...

Either EVERYONE is an idiot and can't understand things or I'm missing something. 

 

Here's a news story on it:  http://www.gamefront.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-imperial-edition/

 

If you do dip into pre-order waters, either with the standard edition of TESO or the swanky Imperial Edition, Bethesda will also throw in The Explorer’s Pack bonus at launch, which includes: a Scuttler vanity pet, four bonus treasure maps, and “the ability to play as any of the nine races in any Alliance.” Evidently those who don’t pre-order will have their Alliance race choices limited.

  Coldren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 427

1/29/14 12:16:02 PM#25
Originally posted by azurrei

Really? This is like Blizzard going "ok guys, we know you have given us hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars over the years...but if you want to play any race on either faction, you have to cough up $20 even though you are still paying $15/mo." I think it is pretty crappy, to be honest.  Vanity mounts, vanity armor, vanity pets, headstart, etc.? Sure.  But this is BS...they are already milking people and the game isn't even out yet.

 

I'd disagree for the following..

1) The game is not released yet, so no, this isn't the same. A game changing the rules after being established for almost a decade (Or more? Not sure how old WoW is) is not the same thing as modifying a mechanic prior to release.

2) WoW has a cash shop, making you pay money on top of a subscription. They're just gonna let you pay them to instantly level to 90 when Warlords of Draenor comes out.. The expansion might give you one free when you buy, but make no doubt, they will offer that service. Along with, oh yeah, FACTION TRANSFERS/RACE CHANGES that have been in place for years now. Sure you can't START as a blood elf in the alliance, but you can certainly PAY to convert your Blood Elf into a Human!  Makes much more sense.

 

  itbewilly

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/09
Posts: 345

1/29/14 12:16:46 PM#26
Originally posted by azurrei
Originally posted by Coldren
Originally posted by itbewilly
Originally posted by Coldren

I wonder if this is all a mis-communication. You get access to the IMPERIAL race, which says it can play any Alliance. I think this might have been a mistake, but who knows.

Either way, I got the imperial edition.. Was going to get it anyway. 

Not a mistake. The Imperial is part of the Deluxe Edition. It also includes a perk where you can craft Imperial style Armor and change any style armor you have to Imperial style but no one seems to care to take the time to read all the details. I figured the TESO haters would pounce on the exclusive armor crafting as a reason to hate the game also.

The pre-order bonus is 3 things

1) Ability to play as any race in any alliance.

2) Some Vanity Scuttlesomething pet

3) some treasure map/maps.

Im guessing this means if you just buy the Imperial Edition you can still play the Imperial in any alliance but only the Imperial if its not pre-ordered because the pre-order perk is the only way the other races can join other alliances.

That very well could be too.. I'm sure they'll make what the pre-orders get for free a cash shop option. 

Which, honestly, doesn't bother me. It'll probably be cheap or obtainable in game, so this is just another pre-order perk.

Really? This is like Blizzard going "ok guys, we know you have given us hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars over the years...but if you want to play any race on either faction, you have to cough up $20 even though you are still paying $15/mo." I think it is pretty crappy, to be honest.  Vanity mounts, vanity armor, vanity pets, headstart, etc.? Sure.  But this is BS...they are already milking people and the game isn't even out yet.

Did you read the website?

The any race any class perk has nothing to do with what version of the game you buy. Its a pre-order perk. How is it them charging you $20 for a feature if you get the feature with any pre-order you make. Standard or Deluxe edition

  Vannor

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/03
Posts: 2998

1/29/14 12:19:16 PM#27
Originally posted by itbewilly
Originally posted by azurrei
Originally posted by Coldren
Originally posted by itbewilly
Originally posted by Coldren

I wonder if this is all a mis-communication. You get access to the IMPERIAL race, which says it can play any Alliance. I think this might have been a mistake, but who knows.

Either way, I got the imperial edition.. Was going to get it anyway. 

Not a mistake. The Imperial is part of the Deluxe Edition. It also includes a perk where you can craft Imperial style Armor and change any style armor you have to Imperial style but no one seems to care to take the time to read all the details. I figured the TESO haters would pounce on the exclusive armor crafting as a reason to hate the game also.

The pre-order bonus is 3 things

1) Ability to play as any race in any alliance.

2) Some Vanity Scuttlesomething pet

3) some treasure map/maps.

Im guessing this means if you just buy the Imperial Edition you can still play the Imperial in any alliance but only the Imperial if its not pre-ordered because the pre-order perk is the only way the other races can join other alliances.

That very well could be too.. I'm sure they'll make what the pre-orders get for free a cash shop option. 

Which, honestly, doesn't bother me. It'll probably be cheap or obtainable in game, so this is just another pre-order perk.

Really? This is like Blizzard going "ok guys, we know you have given us hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars over the years...but if you want to play any race on either faction, you have to cough up $20 even though you are still paying $15/mo." I think it is pretty crappy, to be honest.  Vanity mounts, vanity armor, vanity pets, headstart, etc.? Sure.  But this is BS...they are already milking people and the game isn't even out yet.

Did you read the website?

The any race any class perk has nothing to do with what version of the game you buy. Its a pre-order perk. How is it them charging you $20 for a feature if you get the feature with any pre-order you make. Standard or Deluxe edition

It's pretty obvious they plan to sell the explorer pack separately once the game launches.. that's milking it. Standard game feature, which may affect ability due to racial perks, will be behind a cash wall and not included in your subscription. It's a dodgy tactic to make people feel like they have to pre-order. I don't like it at all.

  Joejc7135

Novice Member

Joined: 5/06/13
Posts: 220

1/29/14 12:20:27 PM#28
Well it's settled then...I will never buy this game. Dear Zenicraps or whatever your company is called. Sell me game...sure. Charge me a sub? Alright....ask me for more money on top of that? An extra 100 bucks to get all the classes? Nope. At least release your game first before you start charging money on top of box price and sub for content you purposely locked away. Crazy to me that people will go for this still though, I wish they would just pay me the 150 bucks and ill send them a bottle of jergens and some anal beads...same thing pretty much,
  BeansnBread

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5562

1/29/14 12:22:50 PM#29
Originally posted by itbewilly
Originally posted by azurrei

Really? This is like Blizzard going "ok guys, we know you have given us hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars over the years...but if you want to play any race on either faction, you have to cough up $20 even though you are still paying $15/mo." I think it is pretty crappy, to be honest.  Vanity mounts, vanity armor, vanity pets, headstart, etc.? Sure.  But this is BS...they are already milking people and the game isn't even out yet.

Did you read the website?

The any race any class perk has nothing to do with what version of the game you buy. Its a pre-order perk. How is it them charging you $20 for a feature if you get the feature with any pre-order you make. Standard or Deluxe edition

I think he's talking about the people that don't pre-order. Like, lets say this game is really good and the word of mouth goes big. Are all the people that get sucked in by word of mouth going to be stuck without being able to play any race they want? It's unlikely they would force this on people without giving them an option to buy it. It leads many people to believe there will be a cash shop to unlock this stuff so people don't feel shorted.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Coldren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 427

1/29/14 12:23:27 PM#30
Originally posted by Joejc7135
Well it's settled then...I will never buy this game. Dear Zenicraps or whatever your company is called. Sell me game...sure. Charge me a sub? Alright....ask me for more money on top of that? An extra 100 bucks to get all the classes? Nope. At least release your game first before you start charging money on top of box price and sub for content you purposely locked away. Crazy to me that people will go for this still though, I wish they would just pay me the 150 bucks and ill send them a bottle of jergens and some anal beads...same thing pretty much,

1) It's a race lock, not a class lock.

2) It's not 100 bucks more, everyone who pre-orders (Digital, Physical, Standard, Imperial) gets the unlock.

That hundred bucks extra is if you wan the physical collectors edition with the maps, books and statues.

But you don't have to buy it to unlock the Imperial race.

And I suspect even if you don't pre-order, they'll have a way to unlock the imperial race and the any race/any faction later via MTx, probably some small amount.

Hate if you must, but hate for the right reasons.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17594

1/29/14 12:27:16 PM#31
Originally posted by rodarin

 

They already made a huge mistake going subscription

 

Except I think that's one of their better decisions.

I pre-ordered because of the early access (and I have played the game quite a bit so knew that I was going to get it) but this "play any race in any alliance" was a surprise.

On one hand "good" because I might be able to play with friends. On the other hand it does feel a bit smarmy.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2889

There... are... four... lights!

1/29/14 12:30:22 PM#32
Originally posted by Coldren

And I suspect even if you don't pre-order, they'll have a way to unlock the imperial race and the any race/any faction later via MTx, probably some small amount.

This is pretty much why people are pissed. Because it's a SUBSCRIPTION based game, and you also have to fork out additional money to unlock races and classes. If you pay a subscription, you should have access to the full package, without having to pay more to unlock such important things as races (with unique racial perks/skills).

Hate if you must, but hate for the right reasons.

There you go, read the right reason just above. There are so many things you can give for a pre-order or collector, this is just a foul move to try to make a quick cash grab.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

1/29/14 12:36:06 PM#33
Originally posted by rodarin

Now what?

 

Pre order comes out and you get to play any race on any alliance? Really?

 

By the CE and you get to play an Imperial on any race, which also gives access to every alliance.

 

Now I wont go as far as to say pay to win, but since we cant talk about the game at all since theyre banhammering everyone here because Zenimax has threatened to sue this place because of said NDA violations we dont have to violate much to talk about this.

 

While it may or may not be pay to win, it is certainly not something a subscription based game should be doing. I know the fanboys are trying to spin it in a positive light but no way no how. Buy to play sure no problem. So what does that subsription get you again? Access tot he servers? Well that was the argument against it, every game now gives free access to their servers. So it pays for content? The new content they are supposedly going to be spitting out every 6 weeks or so? OK lets go with that. do we get 100% of that content  or will there also be special purchases (made with real world cash)one can make to get exclusive deals within those updates?

 

They already made a huge mistake going subscription but they explained it in a way some people could swallow. Now with this revelation there is no spin. Its all disguised cash shop just like myself and many others said. Also as far as them not having a 'cash shop' within the game. Really? I bet there is one in there from day one, a special button you push that leads you to their website where you upgrade stuff or buy things. So even if it isnt technically a virtual store (which will be coming if it isnt there) there will definitely be some sort of access within the game to get you to someplace to spend more money beyond your subscription.

 

But hey I said it before if simpletons are willing to spend money hand over fist great for the developers, but in 6-9 months when the game is a ghost town and all but a handful of people are left defending it dont forget its what you wanted. And when the next big thing comes out and releases the exact same thing in a different package dont try and make it out to be any different.

 

Its the vicious circle MMO land is in these days, people spend money for garbage then expect developers and studios to try harder. Why? They made a lot of money releasing a pile of shit why actually make a game worth playing that will cost a lot more?

 

One last note. I dont ever remember ANY game good, great or shitty that released their pre order before they dropped the NDA. The worst of the worst usually did it simultaneously to soften the blow. So the game is still technically in closed beta phase, with more betas to come and theyre selling these things like the game is out the door ready. Which it probably is, at least in their minds.  But since it is still under NDA people who have actually seen it cant comment on whether it actually is or not.

 

99% of the stuff on forums is complete and utter opion and perception. THIS however is not opinion or conjecture it is fact. Now how we all want to spin what it means sure that is opinion. But the FACT is if you buy the pre order you can play a Breton in Ebonhart Pact, Aldemari Dominion and Daggerfall coveneant. Anyone who doesnt pre order, which includes all players after release day who join can only play Breton on Daggerfall Covenant. Well that is until they click that little button I talked about before and PAY to open that option up. But even if they dont have that option which they 100% will it is still not a fair and balanced game for everyone, which is what justifying a subscription should be. EVERYONE who pays a sub to any game should get EXACTLY the same as the other guy, no more, no less.Thats the excuse for having a sub. 

 

I LMAO when I see these interviews where these guys have the balls to say "we chose a subscription because we didnt want to lock off things for people in the game". What a load of shit.

 

Now I see why Bethesda created a shell company to publish this game under, because this will make SoE cash grab tactics looks like childs play before all is said and done. If they are doing this before the NDA is lifted and their out of beta what will happen once they hook a few crackheads on the game?

 

 

My apologies. I am so warn out of all these "pay to win" rants. It sounds like people who run around spitting political slanders and have no real idea what it means. What you've told me is that they have included a way that for extra money allows you to be any race/class comibination.  Can you verify that there is a winning race/class combination that is needed to win the game. Does this lead directly or indirectly to a win condition. If you claim pay to win, then how does this effect the win?

 

  rodarin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 450

 
OP  1/29/14 12:38:54 PM#34
Originally posted by Coldren
Originally posted by Joejc7135
Well it's settled then...I will never buy this game. Dear Zenicraps or whatever your company is called. Sell me game...sure. Charge me a sub? Alright....ask me for more money on top of that? An extra 100 bucks to get all the classes? Nope. At least release your game first before you start charging money on top of box price and sub for content you purposely locked away. Crazy to me that people will go for this still though, I wish they would just pay me the 150 bucks and ill send them a bottle of jergens and some anal beads...same thing pretty much,

1) It's a race lock, not a class lock.

2) It's not 100 bucks more, everyone who pre-orders (Digital, Physical, Standard, Imperial) gets the unlock.

That hundred bucks extra is if you wan the physical collectors edition with the maps, books and statues.

But you don't have to buy it to unlock the Imperial race.

And I suspect even if you don't pre-order, they'll have a way to unlock the imperial race and the any race/any faction later via MTx, probably some small amount.

Hate if you must, but hate for the right reasons.

No to play Imperial you need to buy the COLLECTORS EDITION pre order, which is quite a bit more.

 

This is supposed to be a subscription game. They had a shit storm over that when they announced it. They made all sorts of statements about why and how they chose to do it. Yet theyre charging for stuff that should be in a BUY TO PLAY game with ZERO subscription. Its called double dipping how people cant  understand that is beyond  me, but theyre the EXACT audience these guys are looking for more money than brains.

 

As far as WoW comparisons, who aid WoW has been any good or does the right thing? I would say a vast majority of the people who are even semi serious about MMOs dont like WoW and havent played it in years. BUT Zenimax is definitely targeting people who are familiar with WOW and how they run their business. So in that aspect theyre definitely a WOW clone, and if that is the case and the money is there they will evenutally do anything to make money the same way WoW does.

 

Its also ironic people use speculation and say things like yeah maybe down the road, when that is all we have heard from Zenimax about content. Yeah game doesnt have that yet but we're looking into putting it in eventually. Which from all the evidence piling up means if we sell enough stuff to suckers and make enough money to justify putting it in we will.

 

I have also seen a lot of threads about 'wires' and shells. Well I suspect this game is going to be released as a shell, much the same way Age Of Conan was rleased. Relying on PvP to hide the sever lack of end game content. Zenimax is saying the exact same things that  Funcom and al the fanboys of that game said. My how history loves to repeat itself. 

 

I also suspect they have a target pre order number in mind, once they hit that they will magically drop the NDA. Smart from a money aspect, dumb as a customer service aspect. But then again they know that people who pre orer will take a lot more shit from guys who are cautious.

  dontadow

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1049

1/29/14 12:39:48 PM#35

In reality, threads like this should say "I have a sense of entitlement because other things work like x".

Everything doesnt work the same. When you pay for a game, sub or other, you have to have faith that you are getting the "original" what you are paid for and if someone else gets more in a collectors, then believe that that extra is worth the extra money.

i"m neither here nor there on the game. I just can't stand the paytowin whaling that happens everytime someone with a sense of entitlement thinks they deserve more. For 50 bucks you're getting what everone else got. 30 years ago, 50 bucks bought you super mario bros 1. Now it buys you the exact contents of elder scroll sans the right to combine any class/race.

  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1285

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

1/29/14 12:40:42 PM#36
Originally posted by dontadow
Originally posted by rodarin
-snip

My apologies. I am so warn out of all these "pay to win" rants. It sounds like people who run around spitting political slanders and have no real idea what it means. What you've told me is that they have included a way that for extra money allows you to be any race/class comibination.  Can you verify that there is a winning race/class combination that is needed to win the game. Does this lead directly or indirectly to a win condition. If you claim pay to win, then how does this effect the win?

Actually, if there is a winning race/class combo then allowing any race to any alliance actually evens out the imbalance. The question would be, is there any material advantage to having an off race in some other alliance? I can't think of any.

All die, so die well.
Join SOLA in ArcheAge.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2889

There... are... four... lights!

1/29/14 12:41:34 PM#37

I'm amazed that there are so many sheep not understanding the psychological tactic involved in this move...

Enjoy playing a Nord, but your friends don't play Ebonheart, and you want to also play with them? No choice, pre-order. If you join later, you'll have to use whatever cash shop is coming to achieve the same.

It's very subtle yet I believe it will be quite efficient.

It's like if WoW offered to play Tauren on alliance side or Night Elf on horde side for $20.

 

I'm okay with additional races and classes being added in expansion packs for P2P games. I'm NOT okay with races and/or class "pay to win" restrictions being implemented even before the game is even released, hell, even before the NDA is lifted!

 

That smells foul. It's tactics fit for a F2P games (and which would be okay then), but applied to a P2P game.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Coldren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/08
Posts: 427

1/29/14 12:42:05 PM#38
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Coldren

And I suspect even if you don't pre-order, they'll have a way to unlock the imperial race and the any race/any faction later via MTx, probably some small amount.

This is pretty much why people are pissed. Because it's a SUBSCRIPTION based game, and you also have to fork out additional money to unlock races and classes. If you pay a subscription, you should have access to the full package, without having to pay more to unlock such important things as races (with unique racial perks/skills).

Hate if you must, but hate for the right reasons.

There you go, read the right reason just above. There are so many things you can give for a pre-order or collector, this is just a foul move to try to make a quick cash grab.

They aren't locking out classes, they're locking out a race and the ability to play any race in any faction.

And I might add, this is nothing new. I said it in another post, but even the behemoth that is WoW allows you to pay for things like Faction/Race/Server transfers on TOP of their subscription. Sure, you might not be able to start out as a blood elf playing as an Alliance character, but you can certainly pay to have your blood elf converted to any other alliance race that has the same class.

WoW seemed to survive. And they pulled this little stunt well after it launched. Sure, it's a cash grab, it's a business after all. I'm sure they'll be many more MTx options in the future. 

Besides, honestly, if playing an Orc in the Ebonheart Pact was THAT big an issue for you, you likely weren't going to play it anyway. Now they give you the option to do so IF you preorder (all preorders get faction/race unlock, but Imperial is an Imperial edition purchase, of course), or if you pay some undetermined fee (Or possibly complete an in-game event or quest.. who's to say?), you can now eliminate that barrier that would have stopped you from buying.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2889

There... are... four... lights!

1/29/14 12:46:10 PM#39
Originally posted by Coldren

And I might add, this is nothing new. I said it in another post, but even the behemoth that is WoW allows you to pay for things like Faction/Race/Server transfers on TOP of their subscription. Sure, you might not be able to start out as a blood elf playing as an Alliance character, but you can certainly pay to have your blood elf converted to any other alliance race that has the same class.

Nice apologist job trying to compare apples and oranges. From what I know (and I know it well since I'm playing that game), you still can't play a blood elf as alliance in WoW, no matter how much you pay. The races are still faction restricted. There's absolutely no way to unlock Blood Elf for alliance or Night Elf for horde.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  mari3k

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/13
Posts: 146

1/29/14 12:47:11 PM#40

Theres an other thread about this, whats with that stupid headline ??

 

THREAD CLOSED !!!

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