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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » Vanguard Shutting Down July 31, 2014

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153 posts found

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1278

1/25/14 1:21:50 PM#101
I am going to try and play some before it goes under.  One of the best games I have ever played.

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

1/25/14 4:49:41 PM#102

Even if Vangaurd had a poor launch epic amount of bugs and few could play it on max setting you guys have to admit it had many good aspect that few if any MMO these days has, such as crafting mini games, card games, plenty of races and classes, huge world to explore.

Sad to see it it go.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.


Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 1071

1/25/14 5:11:03 PM#103
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by syriinx
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by DamonVile

This is going to be one of those everyone is sad to see it go but no one was actually playing it. ( obviously a few were )

It ran a hell of a lot longer than I ever thought it would.

Yep, this is what happens when people don't put their money where their mouth is. Everyone talks about wanting oldschool, but people don't support that.

It is sad for those who actually did play and pay. It always is.

SOE never took this game seriously. Why would you expect players to?

If SoE never took it seriously why did they spend so much time trying to get it playable?  Why toss away so much $$ into something you arent serious about?


People have this very incorrect recollection of what happened.  Game launched -> awful sales due to word of mouth/beta state -> quickly dropped below 50k -> SoE spends 18 months debugging, fixing, adding content -> subs down even further, below 25k -> SoE finally gives up until they tried it f2p years later

There was nothing to indicate to SoE "hey if you actively develop the game more people will come!".  In fact there was 18 months of evidence against it.   


The game never had the proper support/development staff it needed. Whatever SoE did was too little too late.

So basically you are saying Sigil sucked.  We know this.  SoE is mostly blameless here.  SoE did what no other developer would have even attempted, they tried to fix Sigil's mess.  But they didnt get the support from players so they stopped.


Yes, SoE in theory could have added more staff (though its not like the staff was small during the time SoE was working on it) but they went far above and ridiculously beyond what anyone else would have done and only had red ink to show from it.  Game developers arent charities although players seem to expect them to be.

It amazes me that there are people who place significant blame on SoE for VG.  They werent perfect (no MMO developer is remotely close to perfect), but the game certainly did not fail because of SoE.


Advanced Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 241

1/25/14 6:30:12 PM#104

It amazes me that you think that way and my impression is the opposite. The reason many people eventually left was due to broken promises. If you do some research and or was around to see what soe actually communicated, you would see all that they promised would come. Yet we saw almost nothing of the sort. We also saw years without any development. Still you claim people should stick around, and that soe did more than expected and that the players are to blame for not playing?


Why would you trust and play the game when soe never delieverer what they said? An absolutely absurd view!!!


I bet if soe just communicated more, and was more upfront on what was coming, or the lack of updates. People wouldn't be so shocked and angry that the game was going away. They lied and lied, and painted a brighter picture time and time again with empty promises.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 1247

1/25/14 6:35:29 PM#105
R.I.P vanguard , gonna miss my psi , blood mage , monk and paladin.

Elite Member

Joined: 8/15/07
Posts: 2936

1/26/14 7:14:48 AM#106

Well maybe, just maybe, some day someone will buy it and bring it back to life.


Wishful thinking but 3 things would have to happen :

1) someone would have to buy it.

2) they would have to promote it.

3) stop the crap F2P.



As it stands now I would never go back anyway because its F2P ............ so good !


Novice Member

Joined: 12/18/04
Posts: 280

1/26/14 10:27:13 AM#107

So sad. 

I spent a lot of time in this game and no matter how many times I left I would always end up back in VG.  The things I will remember most about this game was that:

I never ever ever was able to memorize the complete NT map EVER!!!!!

Harvesting did not suck

I just solo that 4 dot!  only to be one shotted by a grey 1 dot?!?!

Do NOT land flying mounts on mountain sides... you might drown :(

is that mob over level 50?  Better watch your chat window!

At times the mobs had a very long memory. To the point where you can kill a mummy deep inside a dungeon and when it respawns some time later it STILL has an agro lock on you and trains the entire place on top of you. 

and I still need to find a group to get my final piece of swamp armor. 


Vanguard, you will be missed and sadly I never found anything that can replace you when I have strayed but now I have no safe harbor to return to.  

<div><span style="width:120px; height:120px;float:left;overflow: hidden;"><a href=""><img src="" style="border: 0pt none ; margin: 10px 10px 10px 10px; width: 120px; height: 120px;"></a></span></div>


Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1523

1/26/14 11:11:52 AM#108
Originally posted by Lidane

SOE is going further, actually. They're not just shutting down Vanguard. Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures, Free Realms, and Wizardry Online are also gone:

Looks like they're clearing house of everything that's not EverQuest related.


"Hey guys, we're implementing this great new "All Access" subscription option.. Pay one fee and play all our MMOs! Oh... but by the way, before you get too excited, we're also shutting down half of them..."

Typcal SOE/Smedley. The kings of empty hype and unfulfilled promises.

I understand if the games are under-performing or whatever, that they'd want to "trim the fat", so to speak. But their timing never ceases to amuse. It's almost like they deliberately aim to embody every "evil corporation with ulterior motives up the wazoo" stereotype people attribute to them.

Even the latest update from Smedley on Reddit, about "SWG refugees having a place to call home in an upcoming, as yet unannounced MMO" just reeks of opportunistic PR to get people hyped before they even know what they're being hyped about. It's like he's taking the vague hype around EQ:N/Landmark before anyone really even knew what it was, and taking it a step further. I can't help but feel like I'm being "punk'd" every time that guy makes an announcement, and it's just a matter of time before he goes "Sike! Gotcha again!"


Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

1/26/14 11:37:21 AM#109

Anyone who blames SoE for Vanguard is either extremely ill informed or a McQuaid extremist. Make no mistake Vanguard would not have launched for a single day without SoE. The blame rests 100% on Brad's shoulders.


Microsoft gave him complete control over the game and he pissed it away with lack of deadlines and a rehashed outdated game engine. Brad was not in the office for 90% of Vanguards development even though he was the CEO with the "vision." He hired mostly underqualified friends and family to develop a game for the first time and it certainly showed with VG. At the first sign of trouble instead of sticking around to try and fix the game he sold it and ran while half the friends and family got fired in the parking lot. Think about that for a moment.......


This time around he's still trying to lead everyone with little hands on involvement(said himself in a Q&A question I asked). He's still pushing some vision. He doesn't have friends and family as staff thankfully(likely because they disowned him) but he has a skeleton crew instead. Honestly the guy that designed most the EQ classic dungeons should be leading with Brad in the background as some flunkie.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 455

King of Nerds

1/26/14 11:46:44 AM#110

Never heard anyone say anything good about Vanguard when it launched and saw very few people talking about it a few months after launch. Never tried it myself.


So uh, I guess I'm surprised it lasted this long?


Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/09/08
Posts: 2336

1/26/14 11:47:16 AM#111
Vanguard is one of the games that people really loved, but the people that loved it didn't play it. Just like SWG when it shut down, just like COH when it shut down. People will consistently complain that companies are shutting down game after game but when you aren't playing the game they shut down (due to low population and little to no income garnered from said game) then it is partially your own fault. I liked Vanguard but not enough to make it my main MMORPG, and certainly not enough to care that it is currently being shut down, but I sure do feel bad for the people who were playing it. I think SOEs decision to shut it down makes perfect sense, the game wasn't getting more people playing it and when it did it was very small amounts of players, they had the game on life support for 3 years now, it just makes sense at this point.

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 1147

1/26/14 11:50:27 AM#112

RIP Vanguard, I had a blast playing this game. After end-game raiding for a while, I quit, feeling like I had "finished" the game.

Still has some of the best crafting and probably the best pet class.

RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.


Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1523

1/26/14 11:54:45 AM#113
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

Anyone who blames SoE for Vanguard is either extremely ill informed or a McQuaid extremist. Make no mistake Vanguard would not have launched for a single day without SoE. The blame rests 100% on Brad's shoulders.


Microsoft gave him complete control over the game and he pissed it away with lack of deadlines and a rehashed outdated game engine. Brad was not in the office for 90% of Vanguards development even though he was the CEO with the "vision." He hired mostly underqualified friends and family to develop a game for the first time and it certainly showed with VG. At the first sign of trouble instead of sticking around to try and fix the game he sold it and ran while half the friends and family got fired in the parking lot. Think about that for a moment.......


This time around he's still trying to lead everyone with little hands on involvement(said himself in a Q&A question I asked). He's still pushing some vision. He doesn't have friends and family as staff thankfully(likely because they disowned him) but he has a skeleton crew instead. Honestly the guy that designed most the EQ classic dungeons should be leading with Brad in the background as some flunkie.

Well that's awfully generous of you. You give SOE a complete pass on the current state of VG, even though they acquired all rights to it 7 years ago, and have sat on it since, making only a couple half-hearted attempts at doing anything with it. Despite promises made about its future, which were never fulfilled.

It would be like a couple adopting a child that was poorly raised for the first 5 years of its life, doing absolutely nothing to improve or adjust the child's attitude/problems for the next 12 years, and then when he ends up being thrown in jail, saying "Hey.. it's not our fault he turned into a thieving, drug-dealing/abusing miscreant... His biological parents are to blame for that. We had nothing to do with it".

It would be like continuing to blame Tanaka for any problems ARR has, even though his involvement ended when he left and Yoshi-P stepped in, back while 1.0 was still running.

SOE has had control of Vanguard for longer (2007-present)  than even Sigil did (2002-2007). But somehow, you believe, they are blameless for its current state. That's quite amazing. I don't think I've ever seen such an impressive display of intellectual dishonesty.

Buying up games and then sitting on them and letting them rot until they're finally shut down is something SOE kinda has a history of. They did it with with Matrix Online. They did it with Vanguard as well.

Judging by the rest of your post, it's quite clear you have a strong anti-Brad McQuaid leaning, and so your post was basically just an excuse to take some pot shots at him and his new project. Regardless, your "version" of history just doesn't hold up.

Again, since the true motivation of your post is quite transparent, there's already a forum section specifically for Pantheon here on Seems your opinions of McQuaid and his new project, such as they are, would be better suited there.


Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/09
Posts: 1529

1/26/14 12:32:18 PM#114
U know they shutdown amazing games all the time..... saying vanguard was a good game is just the hipster thing to do

Steam: Neph


Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1238

1/27/14 4:19:49 PM#115
Originally posted by cheyane

If not for SOE Vanguard would have never even have seen the light of day and now you are all blaming SOE.

Proof? They were the first person to bite to take it over, but given how many MMOs are funded, especially back then, someone else would have stepped forward that probably would have tried a lot harder.

Originally posted by Nephaerius
U know they shutdown amazing games all the time..... saying vanguard was a good game is just the hipster thing to do

What, pray tell, was bad about it? I've played MMOs for 13 years and it was probably the best PvE MMO to date.


Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 1569

It''s one thing to have a opinion, but enforcing one is unconstitutional.

1/27/14 11:29:42 PM#116
If SoE would of did this in 2009, I would have ZERO complaints with this move. I've trolled the forums because of the utter ish that was released on launch. I updated my PC in 2007 because of this game and it still didn't play correct. So with 2k down the drain I hated this game, But with F2P I've come back and though it still has its bugs it was actually playable. With that said, I'm not sad to see it go because of those memories from '07, but sucks as I was hoping they would release the inquisitor class and it seem SoE was actually trying to get this game to work. 

Novice Member

Joined: 12/12/13
Posts: 83

Typing is no substitute for thinking.

1/28/14 2:08:37 AM#117
I'll never forget this game. It was a lot of fun despite the early (and current) bugs. It was a game made for those old school 'open world' lovers that just couldn't deliver early enough to reach the masses. Is really a shame. 

Acolytes Gaming (

Sheep or Shepard- Make up your own damn mind.

It is true, the older you get, the less patience you have for those who watch a Youtube video and from that believe they know it all.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/07
Posts: 846

"Choke on the smoke from my quill."

1/28/14 2:23:21 AM#118

Some of my best mmorpg memories are from Vanguard. We didn't care about the launch bugs with my friends. Everything was so exaggerated anyways and game was still very fun and easily playable.

But when EU servers kept having so bad ping all the time and SOE wasn't doing anything to fix tit, the game never got another chance after the initial 3-4 months.

Sad to see it go though. Maybe they'll replace it with another watered down single player game with online mode, then call it an mmorpg. Those seem to be popular these days.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 761

Jesus is Lord.

1/28/14 12:22:33 PM#119
One of the best MMORPGs out there to date. Had good Varking memories for sure. Devs are too lazy nowadays to make anything remotely like it or as deep and exciting now, so I don't expect anything as good for a very long time.

MMORPGs are great to look forward to after a hard day of work, but heaven is the ultimate reward for those who live Christ-like.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 1544

1/30/14 12:56:11 PM#120
RIP Vanguard.  Here's to the best MMO I have ever played, or probably will play.
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