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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » LOTRO is in trouble.

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73 posts found
  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

1/21/14 9:57:04 AM#21
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by killion81
Originally posted by Sovrath

I doubt another developer would make another Lord of the Rings mmo.

 

Not because they wouldn't want to, but rather Disney will NEVER let go of those rights.  Of all companies in existence, Disney has done more lobbying to extend patent duration and coverage than any other.  (OK, I may be wrong on that, maybe some other company has done more, but Disney has done a LOT.)  In fact, Disney is one of the companies spearheading the charge for everyone's favorite internet regulation changes, stuff like SOPA and everything that has spawned off of it.

Well, I'm afraid I'm for extending patents being someone who does create and does get paid for it.

Having the owner of a patent or intellectual property retain their rights is always ok by me.

I think we will have to wait quite a few years before anyone is willing to invest in another Lord of the Rings mmo. I think it will eventually happen (look at the star wars IP) but it's going to be a while.

 

I'm all for a living creator retaining rights to their work as well.  However, Disney is attempting to extend the post death rights beyond 100+ years after death of the original creator.  I do not believe Walt Disney's grand kids (and more likely the Walt Disney Corporation) deserves to exclusively rake in all income off stuff Walt Disney created.  Especially since Walt Disney pulled HEAVILY from public domain for the majority of his stuff.  It's only fair that what he created reenters the public domain to inspire further creativity.

 

That being said, if Disney had access to the Star Wars IP, they would never have let it go to another company unless they were receiving heavy licensing fees (read: pure profit).  Maybe we will see a studio willing to pay more in licensing fees than Disney is making with LotRO, then it could happen.  It's all in the flow of money in the end.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17071

1/21/14 10:58:25 AM#22
Originally posted by killion81
 

 

I'm all for a living creator retaining rights to their work as well.  However, Disney is attempting to extend the post death rights beyond 100+ years after death of the original creator.  I do not believe Walt Disney's grand kids (and more likely the Walt Disney Corporation) deserves to exclusively rake in all income off stuff Walt Disney created.  Especially since Walt Disney pulled HEAVILY from public domain for the majority of his stuff.  It's only fair that what he created reenters the public domain to inspire further creativity.

Nah, I still dont' agree. If someone retains the rights of an IP they should always have control over it, leave it to another, sell it to another, etc.

I never believe the public should automatically get the rights to something just because a certain amount of time passes.The issue of "pulling from public domain" is a separate thing. If someone is pulling from public domain then I would think that anything he "borrows" should always be public domain. Meanign he/the corp. should never have been given permission to solely have control over it. But once they legally do have control over something they should always have the right/option to allow their predecessors to control it. But again, that's my opinion.

 

So, bringing it back to the topic, at least obliquely, whoever has control over Tolkien's work should retain it and be allowed to sell it, license it, etc, to whoever they want for years, decades to come.

Whether or not another game company sees value in a lord of the rings mmo is another thing. I imagine it would be very different.

Whether or not it's what players want, or a majority of what players want, is another thign entirely.

  User Deleted
1/21/14 11:11:11 AM#23
Originally posted by Gruug
Don't know what all the doom and gloom are about here. Isn't LOTRO and DDO f2p (freemium)? As such, I thought they were so successful that they could not fail?

*golf clap*

Payment models have no bearing on whether a game is shit or not.  DDO has been on a downward slope for many years now since Mirkwood.  Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, not the cash shop. 

 

  Asm0deus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 790

1/21/14 11:13:36 AM#24
Originally posted by Gruug
Don't know what all the doom and gloom are about here. Isn't LOTRO and DDO f2p (freemium)? As such, I thought they were so successful that they could not fail?

Kind of missing the point here I think you are.  It is not a question of the games being F2P or premium or sub based, it's about the quality going downhill.

 

Warner Brothers bought Turbine and there has been a steady change in how things are done. Some of it good lots of it bad.

Try and keep this thread about what it is and not some F2P vs Subs tangent.

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  keithian

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 2960

1/21/14 11:20:00 AM#25
All I know is that every year in these forums all of you state how horrible the game is or how it should have been done by someone else and every year the game keeps on ticking and every time I go back it seems to have a healthy population. Seems to be a disconnect between what you guys think and reality....as usual. I do agree it could have been much better, but it isn't a bad game at all.

There Is Always Hope!

  rodingo

Elite Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1688

1/21/14 11:20:35 AM#26
Lotro used to be a "decent" game.  I think it might have had the honors of being one of the first themeparks called a "wow clone",next to the NGE of SWG.  However, the game overall just hasn't aged well.  I would actually be fine with all the mechanics in place if they would just (turns on broken record) fix their poor animations.

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  thorwood

Novice Member

Joined: 10/04/07
Posts: 485

1/21/14 11:34:10 AM#27

I loved this game.  I haven't played in ages.

Is the storyline up to where the big battles start?

The game always did lag in areas where there were a lot of players.

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1061

1/21/14 11:43:09 AM#28

People seriously need to stop thinking that just because they don't like a game that it's "in trouble" or no one likes it. LOTRO has some balance problems since last xpac but it was over-all pretty high quality expansion and I still enjoy the game when I play it.

 

  Gruug

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1159

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

1/21/14 3:02:24 PM#29
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Gruug
Don't know what all the doom and gloom are about here. Isn't LOTRO and DDO f2p (freemium)? As such, I thought they were so successful that they could not fail?

*golf clap*

Payment models have no bearing on whether a game is shit or not.  DDO has been on a downward slope for many years now since Mirkwood.  Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, not the cash shop. 

 

 

I was agreeing with you up until you said "Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, NOT THE CASH SHOP". My guild jumped out of LOTRO within two months of the introduction of the "cash shop" BECAUSE of the introduction of the CASH SHOP.

 

Let's party like it is 1863!

  Asm0deus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/06/10
Posts: 790

1/21/14 3:37:31 PM#30
Originally posted by keithian
All I know is that every year in these forums all of you state how horrible the game is or how it should have been done by someone else and every year the game keeps on ticking and every time I go back it seems to have a healthy population. Seems to be a disconnect between what you guys think and reality....as usual. I do agree it could have been much better, but it isn't a bad game at all.

You have to be careful when making claims like "all of you" as that encompasses far more than you can credibly speak for.

There is always going to be complaints in forums like this about every game as people tend to post more when they are unhappy about something or have a "complaint" about something.

Sure populations will rise n fall as older players get bored and move on or decide they don't like the "changes" that happen in every game over time yet at times you can see when  a game is in a downward spiral that is "unusual" especially if you have been playing the game a long time.

 

Is there a disconnect?  I would say there is but recently it seems to be more on the devs side than the players, keep in mind this is from my POV from the DDO side of things rather than the Lotro side of things.  What many of us are wondering from DDO is if the disconnect is truly the devs fault or is it the WB pencil pushers fault.

 

For example in DDO the last expansion is known as Shadowfail instead of Shadowfell and with good reason.

 

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  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5630

1/21/14 5:26:17 PM#31
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Gruug
Don't know what all the doom and gloom are about here. Isn't LOTRO and DDO f2p (freemium)? As such, I thought they were so successful that they could not fail?

*golf clap*

Payment models have no bearing on whether a game is shit or not.  DDO has been on a downward slope for many years now since Mirkwood.  Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, not the cash shop. 

I have to partially disagree with this. I do think they have made some poor design decisions. I also think they've not always been honest and forthcoming, to say the least. However, their increasingly draconian and pervasive monetization has really put me off the game.

There are cash shop buttons everywhere. They monetize absolutely everything from game mechanics, to items, to content. It's just overblown and off-putting. Paying a sub doesn't really release you from this, it just bridges a small bit of stuff, arguably the the least problematic portion.

In my opinion of course, Turbine could vastly improve the game experience by progressing their model to something along the lines of SoE, Rift, Tera, or even SWTOR. As much as I think the free portion of SWTOR is poorly implemented, at least when you subscribe the experience is good. Both Rift and Tera offer great options. SoE has sort of a middle ground. It's not my favorite system, but likely the easiest for Turbine to adopt with the least hassle. Most every major game company has continually improved their payment systems except Turbine. Just my opinion of course.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  rodarin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 425

1/21/14 7:56:38 PM#32

The major problem with them is they are hamstrung by the lifetime subscriber holders. IMO they gave us too much, but who am I to argue. But basically we get everything free now, including expansions. But then again when expansions are 10 bux within a month of release then its all relative I guess.

 

I was a founder who pre ordered in late 06. Was int he betas, pre release and have played of and on the entire time. But I havent spent a dime of real cash since Moria.

 

I now some people claim to spend hundreds and thousands in the store but I simply dont believe them.

 

Now some people will buy every new mount they come out with or even a bunch whatever crap they have in the store. But anyone who plays the game is going to make quite a bit of TP a month just doing that.  I have a little over 6K still and with no expansion coming out until who knows when I will have so much TP I wont know what to do with it all. Just for OWNING the game. Dont even have to log in to qualify.

 

The two camps of this game are so far apart it isnt even funny. Some guys will say everything is fine. Those are the types who when hey try and log on and the game doesnt exist and the forums are gone will still be on here saying how well Lotro is doing, even after Turbine runs away like a thief in the night again. When I heard them say they werent releasing an expansion this next year I figured they were setting up for another pump and dump. Make some huge 'double' sized expansion which includes all of Gondor and then 6 months later pull the plug, a la AC 2.

 

Whether the licence is renewed until 2017 doesnt matter. The next expansion probably gets released in late 2015, so they pull the plug early mid 2016, no biggie to them.

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4573

1/21/14 8:04:28 PM#33

Come on now, They went Free to play. There's no way they are in trouble. Everyone knows that P2P is dead and F2P rules. Right? Am I right?

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  koboldfodder

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 367

1/21/14 8:18:42 PM#34

LOTRO was once a pretty darn good game.  It's first year or two you could really see the game had style AND substance and clearly there was room to grow.  The Mines of Moria expansion might be one of the best MMO expansions ever.  Two excellent classes, a massive dungeon, a raid, end game gear and the legendary item feature.....oh, and probably some of the best music on any MMO.

 

But for whatever reason, few people played the game.  They never advertised the game, ever.  Turbine is a very small company and while they made a stable, good product they had nothing left over to advertise the game or pay those people for the fourth year.

 

So they had to go F2P, and that was the beginning of the end.  This current combat revamp is just a NGE.  Many classes are so overpowered that it is not even a challenge to play the game.  Captains and other classes when specced correctly can solo content meant for raids....AT the same level.

 

They made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. 

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2764

1/21/14 8:54:05 PM#35

It started with the Mirkwood expansion, although that was at least fairly priced and labeled.

 

I got the Rohan expansion with my free lifer points.  I first went to do the great river content I missed and got bored.  I didn't even bother spending my points on the last expansion.

 

Turbine is a horrible company with one of the worst forum community managers I've ever seen.  They deserve the failure they've been wading in for years.  Shame on Tolkien Enterprises for renewing their contract.

 

I think it all started by them way underestimating the appeal of playing as the forces of evil outside of a PVP map.  And no I don't buy the statement that hte license holders wouldn't let them.  Just look at what TE has allowed other licensees to do with the IP.

 

  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 617

1/21/14 9:04:37 PM#36
Originally posted by Lithuanian
Originally posted by Onsaboo
  • Right now there's spam threads and porn on the official boards which have been there for ages.
  • Just because no other forum on this planet is/was being attacked by spambots. Also, admins of any other forums on this planet never sleep/eat/go to toilet or kitchen
  • The last expansion was buggy as shit and STILL remains unfinished.
  • because OP thinks expansion is buggy and because there are few bugs, all reported. Also, only OP knows (yet does not share this knowledge) how to finish Helm's Deep
  • There is huge amounts of lag for many players which Turbine refuses to even acknowledge.
  • Lag may happen as long as game is played online. Servers may experience downtime etc.
  • Turbine are consistently lying to its playerbase.
  • Care about any proof?
  • Turbine refuse to make any more group content and is bleeding players because of it; their replacement for end-game content, big battles, are shockingly bad.
  • Turbine said clearly: they investigated player behaviour and players are not up to group content. Look at old regions' group content and you will see one shining word - Trouble. Why should Turbine be making things players do not really want?
It's time to give this beloved IP to another developer to salvage something from it. Turbine used to be an excellent dev but I no longer recognise this company.

Overall, yet another "because game does not fit MY genius, game is nonsense, unfinished, devs are lying and Apocalypse is near" post.

I have been a player of LotRO since beta, and a hopeful player of LotRO and MEO since 2003. I have seen the game and the forums and Staff in good times and bad over the years.

and right now something is wrong. There is some truth to the OP's comments and observations, and I share their concern for what is happening and why.

If you want to blow it off as a BS post you are welcome to do so. I know it's a relevant post.

If you are a corporate plant, and I emphasize "if", then get off these forums and get on the LotRO official forums to remove the spam and porn posts before any further rep damage is done. Do the Damage Control where it really matters.... at the scene of the damage.


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 617

1/21/14 9:19:09 PM#37
Originally posted by rodarin

The major problem with them is they are hamstrung by the lifetime subscriber holders. IMO they gave us too much, but who am I to argue. But basically we get everything free now, including expansions. But then again when expansions are 10 bux within a month of release then its all relative I guess.

 

I was a founder who pre ordered in late 06. Was int he betas, pre release and have played of and on the entire time. But I havent spent a dime of real cash since Moria.

 

I now some people claim to spend hundreds and thousands in the store but I simply dont believe them.

 

Now some people will buy every new mount they come out with or even a bunch whatever crap they have in the store. But anyone who plays the game is going to make quite a bit of TP a month just doing that.  I have a little over 6K still and with no expansion coming out until who knows when I will have so much TP I wont know what to do with it all. Just for OWNING the game. Dont even have to log in to qualify.

 

The two camps of this game are so far apart it isnt even funny. Some guys will say everything is fine. Those are the types who when hey try and log on and the game doesnt exist and the forums are gone will still be on here saying how well Lotro is doing, even after Turbine runs away like a thief in the night again. When I heard them say they werent releasing an expansion this next year I figured they were setting up for another pump and dump. Make some huge 'double' sized expansion which includes all of Gondor and then 6 months later pull the plug, a la AC 2.

 

Whether the licence is renewed until 2017 doesnt matter. The next expansion probably gets released in late 2015, so they pull the plug early mid 2016, no biggie to them.

I am a Lifer as well, and as I feel the game is worth it (more because it's Tolkien's ME and out of respect for the original Dev Team) so I purchase each expansion and spend my TPs on vault expansions and whatnot.

Not all Lifers are money sinks. Some of us still financially support the game. My wife's Sub isn't a Lifer, neither is my daughter's... just mine.

As for the game, not everything is bad and not everything is good....  it's just that Turbine itself has changed over the years and so too has LotRO, and the game is far different in some important ways than it was years ago. It how it's changed that makes some happy and some upset.

Example: Years ago My wife and I and our friends could do our quests together, and if we had to enter an Instance for a quest we could do that together as well.... not so much now with the new content last couple of years. Now most of the time we have to disband Fellowship and run the Instance solo and then reform FS.... and that to me is NOT a MMORPG experience.... that to me is a console game experience. More than anything else, more than even the stupid LotRO Store, this is my major pet peeve and discontent with LotRO.

LotRO started out supporting both group and solo play, and now group play is being thrown by the wayside. This irritates me and I AM NOT A RAIDER! I am just a lover of Tolkien and his Middle Earth, and I want to enjoy this virtual version of it with my spouse and friends while we play the game and level our characters.... and we actually enjoy some of the stuff many people complain about here.... the virtues, the traits, we enjoy them because we are doing them together, but of course Players that play a MMO solo are going to find the same content boring. That's easy to figure out.

I would say stop trying to solo a MMO designed for group play... but LotRO is changing and if it sticks around another year or two I am confident Turbine will remove all group content and then I really will have a compliant. The Solo Players will love it though.


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  free2play

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1793

1/22/14 3:50:04 AM#38

I just don't agree with the general idea that the game is in bad shape.

 

It's a strong IP and a polished game with more content than you can keep track of. Put a new character modeling engine in as an optional upgrade and the game can carry for another 10 years.

 

  User Deleted
1/22/14 4:49:21 AM#39
Originally posted by Gruug
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Gruug
Don't know what all the doom and gloom are about here. Isn't LOTRO and DDO f2p (freemium)? As such, I thought they were so successful that they could not fail?

*golf clap*

Payment models have no bearing on whether a game is shit or not.  DDO has been on a downward slope for many years now since Mirkwood.  Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, not the cash shop. 

 

 

I was agreeing with you up until you said "Bad content and design decisions drove everyone away, NOT THE CASH SHOP". My guild jumped out of LOTRO within two months of the introduction of the "cash shop" BECAUSE of the introduction of the CASH SHOP.

 

 

Sounds like a knee-jerk reaction.  The game was still fine with the cash shop, although as a Freemium game I just stayed subscribed and got access to everything.  I don't have some crazy ambition to get everything for free in a F2P title, I am happy to pay for full access if its easier than piecemeal.  I see most Freemium games as giving a few options:

1) Completely free trial.

2) Piecemeal for slow content consumers.

3) Subscription for heavy users.

I guess if someone was actually trying to consume a lot of content as a F2P rather than subscribing you might have a beef with Turbine, but otherwise the cash shop is a bit of a non-issue.

The reason I stopped playing was just because the game became shit.  The new content, if you can call it that, is a joke.  They are diluting the game with gimmicks which are far removed from what everyone originally played the game for.  Mounted combat would have been fine for a few missions, but instead the whole expansion became about them.  Same with big battles. They just have no idea how to progress the game in a way that respects character progression and provides new challenges.

 

  travamars

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/10
Posts: 452

1/27/14 11:12:54 AM#40
Originally posted by Wiha
Originally posted by Malvious
well to bad they got the licence recently renewed until 2017.

Bad. I'd like to play a true Lord of the Rings game true to Tolkien's legacy. Lotro was even OK for a while but went right downhill after Moria imo.

That made me laugh...

True to tolkien's legacy??? Have you even read the books? Or did you just watch the movies?

If it were true to tolkiens books instead of fighting and killing monsters people would just stand around in groups and sing silly songs until they reached end game, then they would get to fight for a lvl or 2. It would apeal to 12 year olds an younger, like the books were intended for, but i doubt anyone over 16 would want to play.

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