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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Forbes Predicting Biggest Disaster of 2014

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323 posts found
  Ratts

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/12
Posts: 48

Vexing with Voxels in . . . 2014?

1/03/14 10:35:41 AM#81
Originally posted by amber-r

Realy surprising a website like forbes would post an article as stupid as this, this kind of thing can lead to self fulfilling prophecies.

 

This article could be seen as damaging of an upcoming title, I wouldn't be surprised if legal action was possible.

 

It's not written as someone that has played the title, it's not written as a review of a released product, it's not even written by someone that knows what they are talking about or has much knowledge of the mmo genre.

 

I expect this kind of nonsense from a biased website like massively but Forbes?  Surprising.

It's written as an opinion article and analysis of the market.  What legal action . . . libel?  They'd have to prove that Forbes lied and had negative intent, neither of which is at all possible here.

For what Forbes was publishing, playing the game isn't necessary.  It's someone's view of the market, the brand, and the business model.  The piece is also published as a piece of guesswork, and acknowledges that the budget figure they're quoting is far from confirmed.

 

Maybe I'm biased because I tend to agree with their points.  From the little time I had in TESO beta (NDA violation, omg!) the game is fine but not worth a sub imo.  It's about the quality of GW2, which has it's fans and detractors, but fundamentally approached the market differently by being B2P and using boosts and cosmetic items in their cash shop.

I have a feeling that if Bethesda/Zenimax had gone the same direction with TESO we'd all be excited.  So you risk your $50 on a box, but then can come back to the game any time to see how they've improved it.  The sub model fundamentally raises the stakes and I think will prove to be a big mistake.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1825

1/03/14 10:40:23 AM#82

Makes sense seeing the history of late. The article would be taking more of a risk saying ESO would succeed without even looking at facts. I await to see how the actual game is regardless of payment model. The payment model is a complaint outside of the actual game play and it is starting to get old hearing that as the primary complaint for why the game will fail. ESO dropping their NDA will make things interesting finally.

 

It is not the mmo model I want but still hope it's good enough for a distraction. 2014 will be an interesting year for the genre. It will be a year where big budget traditionally made mmos are released along side the first waves of kickstarter mmos all trying different approaches (or old approaches perhaps). 2015-16 will be even more interesting imo. Just seeing companies try new things and seeing what sticks to the wall is vastly more interesting that what has transpired in the last few years.

You stay sassy!

  greenreen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1514

1/03/14 10:41:32 AM#83
Originally posted by Ratts
Originally posted by amber-r

Realy surprising a website like forbes would post an article as stupid as this, this kind of thing can lead to self fulfilling prophecies.

 

This article could be seen as damaging of an upcoming title, I wouldn't be surprised if legal action was possible.

 

It's not written as someone that has played the title, it's not written as a review of a released product, it's not even written by someone that knows what they are talking about or has much knowledge of the mmo genre.

 

I expect this kind of nonsense from a biased website like massively but Forbes?  Surprising.

It's written as an opinion article and analysis of the market.  What legal action . . . libel?  They'd have to prove that Forbes lied and had negative intent, neither of which is at all possible here.

For what Forbes was publishing, playing the game isn't necessary.  It's someone's view of the market, the brand, and the business model.  The piece is also published as a piece of guesswork, and acknowledges that the budget figure they're quoting is far from confirmed.

 

Maybe I'm biased because I tend to agree with their points.  From the little time I had in TESO beta (NDA violation, omg!) the game is fine but not worth a sub imo.  It's about the quality of GW2, which has it's fans and detractors, but fundamentally approached the market differently by being B2P and using boosts and cosmetic items in their cash shop.

I have a feeling that if Bethesda/Zenimax had gone the same direction with TESO we'd all be excited.  So you risk your $50 on a box, but then can come back to the game any time to see how they've improved it.  The sub model fundamentally raises the stakes and I think will prove to be a big mistake.

I'm excited they ARE going the sub route and care about what their game plays like more than having micro-transactions. Seems you aren't the only person on the play field. As a person who bought GW2 and is no longer playing it but could. I believe that speaks well enough.

  Carl132p

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/06
Posts: 558

1/03/14 10:45:56 AM#84
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Carl132p
Leave it to mmorpg.com to be completely taken in by ESOs crap. Everyone who's played beta including myself know that the combat is GOD AWFUL and the quests aren't any good either. Those caves you love to explore in skyrim? full of turds running around slaying everything the second it spawns. The cool little mini stories that come with quests? not cool in the least, more annoying than anything. 

So you are trying to tell us who haven't played the game that we should just take your word for it and start believing that game is awful?

Sorry but i like to make my own opinions and decisions. Obviously not everyone is going to like the game, which is expected and is a very natural thing. And i don't think you are in position to speak on behalf of 'every one' who has played the beta.

I AM in that position because NO ONE, who has experienced how poorly done the combat is, comes away saying man that was really well implemented. Your melee swings do as much damage as an auto attack in a normal mmo which leaves you sitting there stock still in front of a mob swinging away like an idiot because there is not point to moving around. Sometimes the mobs charge up a power attack and a big obvious box tells you to hit them, which causes a stun, then they sit there and get pummeled some more, but definitely don't die because your hits do nothing. Blocking doesn't actually block the attack, not only does the mob not respond to you blocking, you don't respond to you blocking and you take some damage for it. Whatever awesome combat the videos have lead you to believe is here is definitely not here, and again, the quests are shit. Have fun collecting ten more bear asses for the millionth time.

  Betaguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 2653

Some folks are like Slinkies, totally useless but great fun to watch when pushed down stairs

1/03/14 10:48:12 AM#85
Originally posted by Rzep
The day I start taking what Fobes says about video games seriously is the day I start telling the future by examining diarrhea.

 QFEx2....

+1 for lulz.

  greenreen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1514

1/03/14 10:49:41 AM#86
Originally posted by Carl132p
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Carl132p
Leave it to mmorpg.com to be completely taken in by ESOs crap. Everyone who's played beta including myself know that the combat is GOD AWFUL and the quests aren't any good either. Those caves you love to explore in skyrim? full of turds running around slaying everything the second it spawns. The cool little mini stories that come with quests? not cool in the least, more annoying than anything. 

So you are trying to tell us who haven't played the game that we should just take your word for it and start believing that game is awful?

Sorry but i like to make my own opinions and decisions. Obviously not everyone is going to like the game, which is expected and is a very natural thing. And i don't think you are in position to speak on behalf of 'every one' who has played the beta.

I AM in that position because NO ONE, who has experienced how poorly done the combat is, comes away saying man that was really well implemented. Your melee swings do as much damage as an auto attack in a normal mmo which leaves you sitting there stock still in front of a mob swinging away like an idiot because there is not point to moving around. Sometimes the mobs charge up a power attack and a big obvious box tells you to hit them, which causes a stun, then they sit there and get pummeled some more, but definitely don't die because your hits do nothing. Blocking doesn't actually block the attack, not only does the mob not respond to you blocking, you don't respond to you blocking and you take some damage for it. Whatever awesome combat the videos have lead you to believe is here is definitely not here, and again, the quests are shit. Have fun collecting ten more bear asses for the millionth time.

Do you expect players to act the same in PVP as mobs?

Mobs are supposed to be easy to kill in games, they are the fodder or am I missing something.

Any game with a targeting reticule it doesn't behoove you to move around wildly or you change where you are aiming. It sounds more like you don't like the targeting as a baseline.

Are you missing running around in circle eights while hopping around with your sword? I wouldn't miss people doing that.

Why didn't you mention that there is no skill cooldown and it's only based on magicka and stamina draining so no more waiting for skills to be ready to use or that holding a skill down makes the damage increased for ranged attacks. Or that stealthing increases the damage to a target or that you can stealth while fighting.

You ever ponder that you are trying to play the game a way that you expect it to be played like you have in other games instead of a way suiting the game and playing on its qualities?

  Coated

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/05/09
Posts: 302

1/03/14 11:00:06 AM#87

If this game has any success, it will not be because of the game play.

Again, this game is lucky that it has the elder scrolls name to back it up, otherwise box sales would be marginal at best. Just like SWTOR, it was lucky it had Star Wars in the title to give it a little more mmph. You think SWTOR was a terrible fail? Just imagine that game without the huge title name.

TESO is terrible. I realize this is just opinion, just like your opinion to defend it at this point, but the game is crap. It just sucks that people are putting their 'everything' into this game, because the disappointment for them is going to be the worst.

 

Another 200M wasted on a huge team with no vision, no original thought and poor execution. The saddest thing for me is the wasted time and effort on these relics who need to stop making MMORPG's.

  kilun

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/25/07
Posts: 692

1/03/14 11:02:03 AM#88
Originally posted by Ice-Queen
I think he has a point somewhat. Console players absolutely will not pay a monthly subscription fee to play it. They're just not that type of gamer, they're the pay $60 for a game, play it til they beat it, then move on type of gamers. I think the game will have a devoted fanbase like SWTOR did ((though no one can do as horribly as the SWTOR team did)), and end up selling a lot to begin with but dwindle down to a few hundred thousand players. Though I prefer subscription based mmo's it will not be worth one. Having played it, I don't see it being a big blockbuster mmorpg.

You do realise that a lot of MMO players buy consoles, and a lot have wanted to sit on their couch and role an MMO, this maybe the one that finally does that fully supported, remember FFXI still is on console and was ported over to XBox360 years later (what was it 2010?)  So there is a market for it.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

1/03/14 11:02:06 AM#89
Originally posted by sketocafe
Console players are the reason we're up to our necks in paid DLC and in game cash shops. How do people figure they won't go for a monthly fee?

Console gamers have nothing to do with it. 

The MMO gamer pre-ordered their game, paid extra to play it before it was released, shelled out for the CE, and agreed to a monthly fee. To add insult to injury, they willing paid for the expansions, too.

The MMO gamer has time and again told the industry "I have no familiarity with history, no concept of the difference between hope and reality, and absolutely no end to my wallet if you tell me over and over the words that I want to hear - that the game is made for me, that the features will revolutionize gaming, and that it is all based on my personal feedback."

 

After all, that is exactly how the past three years of MMOs have been sold, and it is the entire sales pitch for the Steam Early Access games, all of which start with "get involved with this game as it develops." Why? Because the buying patterns of the PC gamer have proven for well over a decade that there's money in doing it.

 

 

 

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  DamonVile

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

1/03/14 11:07:15 AM#90
Originally posted by Loktofeit
 

Console gamers have nothing to do with it. 

The MMO gamer pre-ordered their game, paid extra to play it before it was released, shelled out for the CE, and agreed to a monthly fee. To add insult to injury, they willing paid for the expansions, too.

The MMO gamer has time and again told the industry "I have no familiarity with history, no concept of the difference between hope and reality, and absolutely no end to my wallet if you tell me over and over the words that I want to hear - that the game is made for me, that the features will revolutionize gaming, and that it is all based on my personal feedback."

 

After all, that is exactly how the past three years of MMOs have been sold, and it is the entire sales pitch for the Steam Early Access games, all of which start with "get involved with this game as it develops." Why? Because the buying patterns of the PC gamer have proven for well over a decade that there's money in doing it.

 

But it's 100% the devs fault. They should be better people and just know the customer has no self control.

  Pigglesworth

Novice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

1/03/14 11:11:35 AM#91
If people are willing to hand them money, you expect them to turn it away?

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  Seelinnikoi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 582

1/03/14 11:12:29 AM#92

I have heard from an insider working on the game that it is no more than just "meh" at best.

This game is doomed.

  Mikey_Hazard

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 85

1/03/14 11:14:06 AM#93
Originally posted by greenreen
Originally posted by Carl132p
Originally posted by Doogiehowser
Originally posted by Carl132p
Leave it to mmorpg.com to be completely taken in by ESOs crap. Everyone who's played beta including myself know that the combat is GOD AWFUL and the quests aren't any good either. Those caves you love to explore in skyrim? full of turds running around slaying everything the second it spawns. The cool little mini stories that come with quests? not cool in the least, more annoying than anything. 

So you are trying to tell us who haven't played the game that we should just take your word for it and start believing that game is awful?

Sorry but i like to make my own opinions and decisions. Obviously not everyone is going to like the game, which is expected and is a very natural thing. And i don't think you are in position to speak on behalf of 'every one' who has played the beta.

I AM in that position because NO ONE, who has experienced how poorly done the combat is, comes away saying man that was really well implemented. Your melee swings do as much damage as an auto attack in a normal mmo which leaves you sitting there stock still in front of a mob swinging away like an idiot because there is not point to moving around. Sometimes the mobs charge up a power attack and a big obvious box tells you to hit them, which causes a stun, then they sit there and get pummeled some more, but definitely don't die because your hits do nothing. Blocking doesn't actually block the attack, not only does the mob not respond to you blocking, you don't respond to you blocking and you take some damage for it. Whatever awesome combat the videos have lead you to believe is here is definitely not here, and again, the quests are shit. Have fun collecting ten more bear asses for the millionth time.

Do you expect players to act the same in PVP as mobs?

Woe unto anyone expecting PvP to be a highlight of ESO… 3 Factions is cool, but the actual PvP gameplay in ESO is going to be lackluster at best.

I haven’t played the game, so I could be totally wrong here, but I’ve played all of the Elder Scrolls games and exactly zero of them would translate well into a PvP environment. If ESO is expecting to cater to the Elder Scrolls crowd, chances are very good that the PvP will be horri-bad.

"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." - Louis Hector Berlioz

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3217

1/03/14 11:14:36 AM#94
Originally posted by kitarad

Isn't SWToR making money why would it be a failure ?

For some reason people have a notion that if you can't topple WoW, then it's a failure.  

 

The reason why WoW is played by so many is because they're the only MMO that has a marketing team with money.  Rift did some marketing, but nothing like WoW.  Blizzard spent a lot of money on advertising on TV, even in primetime.  I know a lot of players in WoW that got the game as a present for birthdays or christmas, because someone they know saw the commercial and bought it for them...

 

Now back to the topic at hand.  I don't think it'll be a disaster.  Will it be  14 million subscribers strong? No, you'll never see another MMO like that, so just forget about it already lol.  Will it make money and be sustainable?  Who knows...it's like the weatherman.  He can get it close, but they never get it right.  Same with game predictions, I would say it'll be a fairly successful game.  They'll make money off it.  I hope it stays as P2P, as subscription is the only model I play, and will ever play.

  cnutemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/01/12
Posts: 239

1/03/14 11:23:40 AM#95
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Fearum
Originally posted by cnutemp
Originally posted by Toxia

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/01/02/predicting-the-biggest-disaster-of-2014-the-elder-scrolls-online/

 

Thoughts?

I think they may be right.   TESO brings nothing new to the table other than their IP.  Quest hub grinding to max level then 3 faction pvp?  Sounds like guild wars 2, and I already have that game.

If you really think GW2 is a good example of 3 faction PvP I feel sorry for you friend.

Guildwars mirrored class 3 "server" affair was disgusting. I feel sorry for him too...

So a quest hub grinder with better 3 faction pvp than guild wars 2?  You cant bank your 200+ million dollar budget on that.  That still isn't offering anything different than the competition other than the IP.  I still don't see this game keeping anyone other than half of their TES fans (with the other half leaving because they realized the gameplay was a complete 180.)

  Mikey_Hazard

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/11
Posts: 85

1/03/14 11:23:46 AM#96
Originally posted by Gravarg
Originally posted by kitarad

Isn't SWToR making money why would it be a failure ?

For some reason people have a notion that if you can't topple WoW, then it's a failure.  

 

The reason why WoW is played by so many is because they're the only MMO that has a marketing team with money.  Rift did some marketing, but nothing like WoW.  Blizzard spent a lot of money on advertising on TV, even in primetime.  I know a lot of players in WoW that got the game as a present for birthdays or christmas, because someone they know saw the commercial and bought it for them...

 

Now back to the topic at hand.  I don't think it'll be a disaster.  Will it be  14 million subscribers strong? No, you'll never see another MMO like that, so just forget about it already lol.  Will it make money and be sustainable?  Who knows...it's like the weatherman.  He can get it close, but they never get it right.  Same with game predictions, I would say it'll be a fairly successful game.  They'll make money off it.  I hope it stays as P2P, as subscription is the only model I play, and will ever play.

I played WoW since beta. The first commercial I saw for the game came out sometime around WotLK… 3 expansions deep… They already had like 10+ million subscribers at the time.

WoW’s success was due primarily to the established franchise, world-renowned developer cred, and the fact that it was for all intents and purposes; it was the world’s first big budget, mythos-established, AAA themepark MMO. Yeah, there was marketing, but I dare say Rift, etc. actually outspent WoW’s early-on marketing budget simply because they HAD to. No-name developer, new IP, etc.

WoW was a pioneer in the broad-appeal MMO market. Yeah, there were already MMOs but none with the kind of rabid fan-following that comes with Blizzard. You could argue that Star Wars (Galaxies) was a bigger IP than Warcraft (and you’d be right), but the difference is that Blizzard fans already all owned PCs… Because… Blizzard games.

"Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils." - Louis Hector Berlioz

  lizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/03/14 11:24:42 AM#97


Originally posted by DamonVile

Originally posted by Loktofeit

 
Console gamers have nothing to do with it.  The MMO gamer pre-ordered their game, paid extra to play it before it was released, shelled out for the CE, and agreed to a monthly fee. To add insult to injury, they willing paid for the expansions, too. The MMO gamer has time and again told the industry "I have no familiarity with history, no concept of the difference between hope and reality, and absolutely no end to my wallet if you tell me over and over the words that I want to hear - that the game is made for me, that the features will revolutionize gaming, and that it is all based on my personal feedback."   After all, that is exactly how the past three years of MMOs have been sold, and it is the entire sales pitch for the Steam Early Access games, all of which start with "get involved with this game as it develops." Why? Because the buying patterns of the PC gamer have proven for well over a decade that there's money in doing it.  
But it's 100% the devs fault. They should be better people and just know the customer has no self control.



Why?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

1/03/14 11:33:43 AM#98
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Rzep
The day I start taking what Fobes says about video games seriously is the day I start telling the future by examining diarrhea.

 QFEx2....

+1 for lulz.

Forbes isnt a Gaming Review Magazine. Its a Business Magazine.

They arent discussing the game itself, but the direction the Business is taking.

Bringer of Eternal Darkness and Despair, but also a Nutritious way to start your Morning.

Games Played: Too Many

  sayuu

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 128

1/03/14 11:40:50 AM#99
Originally posted by Seelinnikoi

I have heard from an insider working on the game that it is no more than just "meh" at best.

This game is doomed.

Really?

 

Because I heard (from a "insider") that this game is being called the savior of MMO's and best game of all time past, present, and future!

 

 

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 7009

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

1/03/14 11:41:36 AM#100
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs
Originally posted by Betaguy
Originally posted by Rzep
The day I start taking what Fobes says about video games seriously is the day I start telling the future by examining diarrhea.

 QFEx2....

+1 for lulz.

Forbes isnt a Gaming Review Magazine. Its a Business Magazine.

They arent discussing the game itself, but the direction the Business is taking.

Yes of course and it makes total sense because game reviews mean absolutely NOTHING<the ONLY review that matters is how a game rates to each individual and we all have different views.

I will not pretend to be able to dissect the game itself,i know little of the game but i do follow all gaming.My opinion is that the game is not marketed on the same level as Trion's Rift or Wow or even EQ Landmark or Wildstar.Marketing DOES matter a lot.

Also another very annoying thing i noticed when i was looking for a certain game of late is that the major gaming stores ONLY carry large number of Blizzard products and for some other big names they do not even have one copy on console or PC.

What  i see is TESO is doing minimal marketing ans has yet to put out that one big PR idea that makes it sound worth playing.

it is possible TESO could end up a top 5 game of all time,but the OTHER factors tells me the game "might" struggle a bit under their expectations.Timing will as always be key,i do not think they want to go head on with a few other big titles,so they need to pick a sweet spot in between.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

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