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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » [Poll] OK if not TSW, what's your favorite combat system?

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109 posts found
  TheLizardbones

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

1/03/14 1:42:40 PM#61


Originally posted by Ortwig
Interesting  coming back after a week -- seems AoC and GW2 are the big preferences, and I'm actually kinda surprised TERA and some of the console systems rated lower.  I still am coming away with the thought that it's not so much TSW's combat system but the animations and perhaps the builder/consumer mechanic that bugs people.  Still think TSW has one of the most interesting combat systems around, but understand why it's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

Very few comments on GW2 combat.  Is it mainly the animations that people like?




Concerning the builder->consumer mechanic, I think it highlights the main issue that I see with TSW's combat. It's essentially that the combat tries to be more than one thing at a time, and it doesn't work.

While in combat, the player has to look at the ground, the world and the mob they are fighting for tells, so this is similar to action based combat. On the other hand, the player also has to look at their interface instead of the world to see how their builders are doing and how their cooldowns are doing. The player has to constantly switch back and forth between the UI and the world of the game. Now this goes on in any game. The player is going to look at their UI, and look at the world even during combat, but it just doesn't seem to mesh well in TSW.

For instance, in WoW, the player can focus almost exclusively on their UI, passively paying attention to the game world. Love it or hate it, it allows the player to focus on the game. In an FPS the player is focused primarily on the game world, passively paying attention to their UI. Most queues are presented in the game world or overlay the whole screen. It allows the player to focus. TSW doesn't seem to allow the player to do this in combat. It doesn't feel like it anyway.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Thillian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3229

1/05/14 4:38:02 AM#62
Originally posted by Tholdornas

 

Builder, builder, builder, builder, builder, finisher. Rinse and repeat, folks! Throw in the occasional cooldown and done is the typical solo build you'll use 80%+ of your game time in TSW.

.

NOT TRUE, Simply not true.

THIS is a build if you want to have a simple 5x builder consumer build, BUT not all builds are like that. Take Blood+Elementalism build for instance, Bloodshot (one of the most powerful consumers) needs only 2 resources, coupled with Fire Manifestation and Fireshot or Blaze and Cannibalism make your build very fluid and you gotta improvise a lot even during raid or group. You gotta adopt to the situation AND raid/group buffs and ADJUST your burn phase accordingly. 

ITS your FAULT if you play your average elemental force build every day, there are TONS of builds which doesn't require you to fill up your resource pool to 5 and then use a consumer. AND I'm talking SOLELY about PVE.

REALITY CHECK

  User Deleted
1/05/14 5:03:25 AM#63

Chose other - Blade and Soul. 

Also pretty much everything you listed there had better combat than TSW.  I love the quests in TSW, and have played the game thoroughly, but combat is just crap.

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 797

1/05/14 5:04:48 AM#64

Darkfall/Mount&Blade/Mortal/Chivalry

Guess the closest thing listed is Skyrim.

  phoenix_genma_ken

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 33

1/05/14 5:07:31 AM#65
wildstar
  phoenix_genma_ken

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/12
Posts: 33

1/05/14 5:08:55 AM#66

wow ?

are u guyz serious ? lol

  Sandio

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/11
Posts: 12

1/05/14 6:14:24 AM#67
+1 Age of Conan!
  Vonatar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 617

1/05/14 6:26:58 AM#68
Mount & Blade.
  Tholdornas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/29/12
Posts: 57

1/05/14 6:36:58 AM#69
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Tholdornas

 

Builder, builder, builder, builder, builder, finisher. Rinse and repeat, folks! Throw in the occasional cooldown and done is the typical solo build you'll use 80%+ of your game time in TSW.

.

NOT TRUE, Simply not true.

THIS is a build if you want to have a simple 5x builder consumer build, BUT not all builds are like that. Take Blood+Elementalism build for instance, Bloodshot (one of the most powerful consumers) needs only 2 resources, coupled with Fire Manifestation and Fireshot or Blaze and Cannibalism make your build very fluid and you gotta improvise a lot even during raid or group. You gotta adopt to the situation AND raid/group buffs and ADJUST your burn phase accordingly. 

ITS your FAULT if you play your average elemental force build every day, there are TONS of builds which doesn't require you to fill up your resource pool to 5 and then use a consumer. AND I'm talking SOLELY about PVE.

Like I already stated I exaggerated quite a bit. I know there are other builds and I know that in PVP there may be entirely different rules for builds ( I never PVP in MMOs, so I really can't give a grounded opinion there), but the main point of my post stands: the main problem of TSWs combat is the fact that EVERY weapon plays exactly the same, since they all follow the same builder/finisher principle, hell, they all have the very same resource and each weapon can fill that resource what, 5 times? Yea, every single one.

And if you really want to sell the choice of filling up the resource bar to anything lower than five before pressing my finisher as a redeeming factor and the best thing since sliced bread, sorry, it's not working.

  Thillian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3229

1/05/14 6:45:31 AM#70
Originally posted by Tholdornas
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Tholdornas

 

Builder, builder, builder, builder, builder, finisher. Rinse and repeat, folks! Throw in the occasional cooldown and done is the typical solo build you'll use 80%+ of your game time in TSW.

.

NOT TRUE, Simply not true.

THIS is a build if you want to have a simple 5x builder consumer build, BUT not all builds are like that. Take Blood+Elementalism build for instance, Bloodshot (one of the most powerful consumers) needs only 2 resources, coupled with Fire Manifestation and Fireshot or Blaze and Cannibalism make your build very fluid and you gotta improvise a lot even during raid or group. You gotta adopt to the situation AND raid/group buffs and ADJUST your burn phase accordingly. 

ITS your FAULT if you play your average elemental force build every day, there are TONS of builds which doesn't require you to fill up your resource pool to 5 and then use a consumer. AND I'm talking SOLELY about PVE.

 

And if you really want to sell the choice of filling up the resource bar to anything lower than five before pressing my finisher as a redeeming factor and the best thing since sliced bread, sorry, it's not working.

The progression is a deck-building game. The resource management is like mana-pool management in the magic:the gathering. The combat itself is extremely action based with lots of dodging and moving around. Different rotations are there tho if you dig deep into the system; not all have the patience to uncover it .I think TSW combat together with the character progression is the best in the genre and the reason number 1 why I continue to play the game with over 2000 in-game hours. What other games have better combat? I can see GW2 is among the top in this poll, how does it differ to TSW? GW2 system is just waiting for cooldowns while you spam number 1.

REALITY CHECK

  Tholdornas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/29/12
Posts: 57

1/05/14 7:27:00 AM#71
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Tholdornas
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Tholdornas

 

Builder, builder, builder, builder, builder, finisher. Rinse and repeat, folks! Throw in the occasional cooldown and done is the typical solo build you'll use 80%+ of your game time in TSW.

.

NOT TRUE, Simply not true.

THIS is a build if you want to have a simple 5x builder consumer build, BUT not all builds are like that. Take Blood+Elementalism build for instance, Bloodshot (one of the most powerful consumers) needs only 2 resources, coupled with Fire Manifestation and Fireshot or Blaze and Cannibalism make your build very fluid and you gotta improvise a lot even during raid or group. You gotta adopt to the situation AND raid/group buffs and ADJUST your burn phase accordingly. 

ITS your FAULT if you play your average elemental force build every day, there are TONS of builds which doesn't require you to fill up your resource pool to 5 and then use a consumer. AND I'm talking SOLELY about PVE.

 

And if you really want to sell the choice of filling up the resource bar to anything lower than five before pressing my finisher as a redeeming factor and the best thing since sliced bread, sorry, it's not working.

The progression is a deck-building game. The resource management is like mana-pool management in the magic:the gathering. The combat itself is extremely action based with lots of dodging and moving around. Different rotations are there tho if you dig deep into the system; not all have the patience to uncover it .I think TSW combat together with the character progression is the best in the genre and the reason number 1 why I continue to play the game with over 2000 in-game hours. What other games have better combat? I can see GW2 is among the top in this poll, how does it differ to TSW? GW2 system is just waiting for cooldowns while you spam number 1.

I really don't want to talk bad about the whole deck-building or the depth it provides, I really don't. I like how the whole skill wheel is quite different form regular skill trees mostly because the wheel is freeform and you can learn what you want to learn.

My issue with TSWs combat is the fact that all this complex and interesting deck building is resulting in such a comparably bad to mediocre actual fighting experience, where you may be happy that your build is working as estimated, but actually pulling off the build proves to be far less exciting than putting it together. And concerning the resources: I don't understand what stopped the devs from including different resource systems (e.g. mana-esque bars for the magics, bullet system for the guns, some sort of rage/ weapon momentum system for melee). This would make the actual combat so much more complex, I think.

But maybe that's just me. 

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3598

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

1/05/14 7:42:52 AM#72

Being the odd man out, I liked EQ combat. Sure you were rooted so no jumping about and the animations were not very diverse or interesting (like doing flips and somersaults), but it was slow paced and allowed a player to utilize their skills and abilities as fights took awhile.

What I liked best was that a character's abilities factored in, not the player's hand-eye coordination. Strength factored into damage dealt. Agility factored into hit probability. Intelligence and Wisdom factored into a character's mana pool.

The "tense part" came when both the character's and the opponent's health got low and it was a race to see who would land the killing blow first.

Overall (the good and bad together), EverQuest did it right, in my opinion. Weird... I know :)

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  gambe1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 125

1/05/14 7:44:12 AM#73
Dark Souls
  BearKnight

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 461

1/05/14 7:52:40 AM#74
Originally posted by Ortwig

Okay TSW combat haters, you've been pretty loud about what you dislike.   Now tell us what combat games you think are great. Vote below or add your own!

if you are feeling talkative tell us why.

 

 

 

Dark Age of Camelot

 

Positional combat, with calculated detrimental effects that have chaining potential, and chained combat moves.

 

Nothing else can compare to it. I miss DAOC soo much :(

  Doogiehowser

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 1954

1/05/14 7:53:13 AM#75
AOC combat.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney

  Bjelar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/12
Posts: 384

1/10/14 5:10:52 PM#76
AoC by a huge margin.
  Vynt

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/19/04
Posts: 601

1/10/14 5:17:22 PM#77
Originally posted by BearKnight
Originally posted by Ortwig

Okay TSW combat haters, you've been pretty loud about what you dislike.   Now tell us what combat games you think are great. Vote below or add your own!

if you are feeling talkative tell us why.

 

 

 

Dark Age of Camelot

 

Positional combat, with calculated detrimental effects that have chaining potential, and chained combat moves.

 

Nothing else can compare to it. I miss DAOC soo much :(

Also the reactionaries off of blocks, parries, evades, that went into the combos you mentioned. Loved that. Still my favorite. The only thing I didn't like in it was the strafing, so cumbersome, lol. Movement was just not smooth. Only reason I don't go back to daoc.

  Thillian

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/31/06
Posts: 3229

1/11/14 9:18:56 AM#78
Originally posted by Tholdornas
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Tholdornas
Originally posted by Thillian
Originally posted by Tholdornas

 

Builder, builder, builder, builder, builder, finisher. Rinse and repeat, folks! Throw in the occasional cooldown and done is the typical solo build you'll use 80%+ of your game time in TSW.

.

NOT TRUE, Simply not true.

THIS is a build if you want to have a simple 5x builder consumer build, BUT not all builds are like that. Take Blood+Elementalism build for instance, Bloodshot (one of the most powerful consumers) needs only 2 resources, coupled with Fire Manifestation and Fireshot or Blaze and Cannibalism make your build very fluid and you gotta improvise a lot even during raid or group. You gotta adopt to the situation AND raid/group buffs and ADJUST your burn phase accordingly. 

ITS your FAULT if you play your average elemental force build every day, there are TONS of builds which doesn't require you to fill up your resource pool to 5 and then use a consumer. AND I'm talking SOLELY about PVE.

 

And if you really want to sell the choice of filling up the resource bar to anything lower than five before pressing my finisher as a redeeming factor and the best thing since sliced bread, sorry, it's not working.

The progression is a deck-building game. The resource management is like mana-pool management in the magic:the gathering. The combat itself is extremely action based with lots of dodging and moving around. Different rotations are there tho if you dig deep into the system; not all have the patience to uncover it .I think TSW combat together with the character progression is the best in the genre and the reason number 1 why I continue to play the game with over 2000 in-game hours. What other games have better combat? I can see GW2 is among the top in this poll, how does it differ to TSW? GW2 system is just waiting for cooldowns while you spam number 1.

I really don't want to talk bad about the whole deck-building or the depth it provides, I really don't. I like how the whole skill wheel is quite different form regular skill trees mostly because the wheel is freeform and you can learn what you want to learn.

My issue with TSWs combat is the fact that all this complex and interesting deck building is resulting in such a comparably bad to mediocre actual fighting experience, where you may be happy that your build is working as estimated, but actually pulling off the build proves to be far less exciting than putting it together. And concerning the resources: I don't understand what stopped the devs from including different resource systems (e.g. mana-esque bars for the magics, bullet system for the guns, some sort of rage/ weapon momentum system for melee). This would make the actual combat so much more complex, I think.

But maybe that's just me. 

The combat is not twitch-based as most others; maybe partially is but to a much lower extent. Did you miss rage-building mechanic in Skyrim combat as well? TSW combat is a lot more action-based than most other systems. I dont think this game needs more or any other "resource management".

REALITY CHECK

  h0urg1ass

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/29/05
Posts: 314

1/11/14 9:31:16 AM#79

Age of Conan by leaps and bounds.  It's fluid, dynamic and you feel in control of every action your character is taking.

I've never found another combat system more enjoyable, especially playing a Barbarian or a Bear Shaman.  It's so much fun running around attacking things with those two characters.

  Bloodaxes

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 2701

1/11/14 9:33:32 AM#80

Mount and Blade Warband

Darksouls

Continent of the ninth/ Vindictus/ Dragon Nest

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It doesn't work on every game but Secret World would have been awesome with a more fluid action combat.

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