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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Massively votes TESO most likely to flop

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262 posts found
  Pigglesworth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

12/21/13 9:23:23 PM#101
Pre-paid cards, anyone? Hell, most credit cards even allow one-time use card numbers for online transactions.

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  rodarin

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/21/10
Posts: 443

12/21/13 9:27:47 PM#102

Way to go out on a limb, what game hasnt flopped the past decade?

 

But its Massively and they have as much credibility as Bernie Madoff.

 

ESO has a big hill to climb. It will sell a few million boxes. It will be interesting the sub offers they give. Because if they arent extremely favorable I dont see them holding many players for very long.

 

PvP centric sounds great but it wont be hardcore enough for the 'real' PvP crowd, and it will not appeal to the casual PvP crowd either because it isnt small instances like they have been weened on.

 

Also sounds like theyre throwing together some sort of PvE 'end game' at this point so I am sure that will go over just great....

 

No housing is another major negative. People can say all they want but many people, especially fans of this IP want housing. They should know, they sold how many 'Hearthside" copies? all that was was housing. Not that great either but had some interesting features that if added to MMO housing could be awesome.

 

Subscription games are just going to be held to a much higher standard. Plain and simple. If they release some half finished or even 75% finished mess and even if they have multiple updates there will still be bugs and fixes needed and people will drop like flies. History shows that.

 

A very aggressive launch date couple with some serious omissions in the RPG portion of the MMORPG of the game doesnt  really take a leap to call that one.

  Vorthanion

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1917

12/21/13 9:28:18 PM#103
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by LittleBoot
Originally posted by Razeekster
Originally posted by Myria

The Internet Herd -- and Massively, as well as this site, is nothing if not desperate to be part of the Internet Herd -- wants TESO to flop and hopes they can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

This isn't exactly news.

 

The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)? Then again, FFXIV ARR does not seem to be doing overly well as far as I can tell (not, mind, that I want it to fail or particularly care one way or the other), but it is amusing that the go on and on about FFXIV ARR and then bitch about Wildstar and ESO making the "mistake" of not realizing that subs are dead.

 

Because, yeah, subs are dead and it's F2P sandboxes everywhere.

I personally don't want TESO to flop as I love the Elder Scrolls games, but do I think that TESO is going to be a successful MMORPG? After playing in the Beta (I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by just saying I played in the Beta, and if I am feel free to edit/delete this post  O' Mighty Forum Mod), I'm going to be honest:

 

No, I don't think TESO is going to be very successful. It's coming out in 2014 around the same time a lot of other MMOs are speculated to be released too, and those MMOs seem to be drawing more attention from people than TESO has. TESO is 100% themepark, which is okay, but it's 100% themepark that doesn't seem to be doing anything new accept attaching the IP Elder Scrolls to it.

 

Like I said, I love the Elder Scrolls and had high hopes for TESO, but the problem is TESO just doesn't feel like Elder Scrolls.

I haven't played in the Beta, but I predict my response will be the following: -

I'll buy it, log in and find another generic themepark mmo.  It will either remind me enough of Skyrim that I'll wind up going back to it, or it will remind me enough of better themepark mmo's that I will go back to/ move onto those.  

I hope that isn't the case, but I fully expect it to be.  

The red signal that I first saw that made me think that TESO may not do so great is the overall lack of community interest in the game. Just scroll through past TESO articles here on MMORPG.com and compare them to other major AA+ MMORPGs that are getting covered... The lack of interest from the MMORPG community honestly worries me, and I get a sense that people have just grown tired of the same exact MMORPG coming out with a different skin on it.

 

I honestly don't think the Elder Scrolls games were ever meant to translate into an MMORPG. I think Bethesda expected fans of the Elder Scrolls games to all flock to TESO just because it had the Elder Scrolls IP attached to it, and that just hasn't seemed to happen (at least not from what I've seen).

There is also the possibility that this current trend to make MMOs action based is starting to ruffle feathers.  I've yet to see proof that the majority of MMO fans are action junkies.  What I think is happening is yet another minority group, like hardcores and raiders and pvpers who are very vocal and very pushy, dictating the direction of the genre and the genre seems to be suffering for it.  Kinda like this trend towards f2p, which is now proving to be rather tiresome to many MMO gamers.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

12/21/13 9:35:24 PM#104
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
Ballz are for niche games with low budgets. You can't spend hundreds of millions on the risk that you do we'll.

The closest I see out there taking risks is EQNext.

Ballz went into this game, which expects not only computer peeps, but also console players to pay monthly.

 

I guess Zenimax is going to be the testing grounds for future models.

 

A Test of Fire is appropriate.  Sure other games did this on console, FF, and EverQuest .. FF wins by default

 

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Arthasm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 677

12/21/13 11:50:05 PM#105
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Tamanous
Originally posted by Arthasm
p2p sux, 

You will do yourself a huge favor by realizing what you say about p2p is your personal opinion only.

 

I am much more concerned with the quality of the game upon release. I am glad though that the developers don't have to worry at this time how to monetize every element of the game prior to launch. P2p tells me they want their content in game to be equally accessible to all. Launching as f2p only means those with the loosest wallets benefit first or most.

 

If the game ends up being a clunky mess it will have nothing to do with the payment model.

Exactly.

 

A lot of people here, and evidently the writers at Massively, are always confusing the issue of what determines a game's success or failure by evaluating it all based on corporate profit.

 

It's fine for them, the developers and their financial backers, to think of it in those terms, but wtf does it really matter to us beyond them just achieving a baseline financial viability that allows them to stay open and supporting the game?

 

Quality, success and failure to us is really just about how much fun we have or don't have and whether we want to keep playing it or not. All this other bean counting crap just confuses the issue.

That was their word, Massively, not mine... I always prefer and going with p2p, at the end, payment model doesn't matter if game sux and if I don't have fun.

  emota

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 335

12/22/13 12:03:30 AM#106
TESO will be next year's xmas Turkey!
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5802

12/22/13 12:06:20 AM#107
Originally posted by Tamanous
Originally posted by Arthasm
p2p sux, 

You will do yourself a huge favor by realizing what you say about p2p is your personal opinion only.

I am much more concerned with the quality of the game upon release. I am glad though that the developers don't have to worry at this time how to monetize every element of the game prior to launch. P2p tells me they want their content in game to be equally accessible to all. Launching as f2p only means those with the loosest wallets benefit first or most.

If the game ends up being a clunky mess it will have nothing to do with the payment model.

You would do yourself a huge favor and realize that what you say about p2p is your personal opinion only.

I'm also concerned about game quality. I'm not going to waste my time with a game I don't find fun. That seems ludicrous to me.

The quality of the game doesn't have to do with the payment model, but then again it doesn't matter if the game is really good because it's not good enough to get me to rent it for $200 a year. I'm not renting temporary access to my games anymore. So while the p2p won't make the game bad or good, it will be a defining factor in me not spending money on or playing it.

The payment scheme for the game does matter to me. I find people defending smoke and mirrors about "no cash shop" but "we're going to sell account services" to be interesting. There is a box fee. They are going to charge for account services. What exactly does that subscription count for? If it works for you and others, great. It's a deal breaker for me.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Coated

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/05/09
Posts: 278

12/22/13 12:10:21 AM#108

This isn't much of a risk prediction on Massively's part. Out of all the games soon to be released, TESO looks the worst and by a huge margin. As it stands, that is just my personal opinion, but it won't be when the game gets released and the fail begins. Until then, people will just have to put in their 2 cents.

This game is lucky that it is riding on the shoulders of Elder Scrolls previous releases. If it wasn't for that hype, there wouldn't be anyone defending this.

  Cetra

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 371

12/22/13 12:19:41 AM#109
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

 

Not surprising for those who had partcipated in the beta weekends. Combat and skills are a big turn off in ESO.
  User Deleted
12/22/13 12:49:58 AM#110
Given the IP, I think its highly unlikely that it will flop.  Highly likely that they will drop the sub once they milk it for a while though.
  User Deleted
12/22/13 12:53:09 AM#111
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
Ballz are for niche games with low budgets. You can't spend hundreds of millions on the risk that you do we'll.

The closest I see out there taking risks is EQNext.

Ballz went into this game, which expects not only computer peeps, but also console players to pay monthly.

 

I guess Zenimax is going to be the testing grounds for future models.

 

A Test of Fire is appropriate.  Sure other games did this on console, FF, and EverQuest .. FF wins by default

 

DCUO also had a subscription on consoles for a  while.  I prefer B2P models, but a subscription wont put me off if I think the game is good enough.

  baphamet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/05/06
Posts: 2643

110100100

12/22/13 1:11:56 AM#112


Originally posted by Vorthanion

Originally posted by Razeekster

Originally posted by LittleBoot

Originally posted by Razeekster

Originally posted by Myria The Internet Herd -- and Massively, as well as this site, is nothing if not desperate to be part of the Internet Herd -- wants TESO to flop and hopes they can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.   This isn't exactly news.   The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)? Then again, FFXIV ARR does not seem to be doing overly well as far as I can tell (not, mind, that I want it to fail or particularly care one way or the other), but it is amusing that the go on and on about FFXIV ARR and then bitch about Wildstar and ESO making the "mistake" of not realizing that subs are dead.   Because, yeah, subs are dead and it's F2P sandboxes everywhere.
I personally don't want TESO to flop as I love the Elder Scrolls games, but do I think that TESO is going to be a successful MMORPG? After playing in the Beta (I don't think I'm breaking the NDA by just saying I played in the Beta, and if I am feel free to edit/delete this post  O' Mighty Forum Mod), I'm going to be honest:   No, I don't think TESO is going to be very successful. It's coming out in 2014 around the same time a lot of other MMOs are speculated to be released too, and those MMOs seem to be drawing more attention from people than TESO has. TESO is 100% themepark, which is okay, but it's 100% themepark that doesn't seem to be doing anything new accept attaching the IP Elder Scrolls to it.   Like I said, I love the Elder Scrolls and had high hopes for TESO, but the problem is TESO just doesn't feel like Elder Scrolls.
I haven't played in the Beta, but I predict my response will be the following: - I'll buy it, log in and find another generic themepark mmo.  It will either remind me enough of Skyrim that I'll wind up going back to it, or it will remind me enough of better themepark mmo's that I will go back to/ move onto those.   I hope that isn't the case, but I fully expect it to be.  
The red signal that I first saw that made me think that TESO may not do so great is the overall lack of community interest in the game. Just scroll through past TESO articles here on MMORPG.com and compare them to other major AA+ MMORPGs that are getting covered... The lack of interest from the MMORPG community honestly worries me, and I get a sense that people have just grown tired of the same exact MMORPG coming out with a different skin on it.   I honestly don't think the Elder Scrolls games were ever meant to translate into an MMORPG. I think Bethesda expected fans of the Elder Scrolls games to all flock to TESO just because it had the Elder Scrolls IP attached to it, and that just hasn't seemed to happen (at least not from what I've seen).
There is also the possibility that this current trend to make MMOs action based is starting to ruffle feathers.  I've yet to see proof that the majority of MMO fans are action junkies.  What I think is happening is yet another minority group, like hardcores and raiders and pvpers who are very vocal and very pushy, dictating the direction of the genre and the genre seems to be suffering for it.  Kinda like this trend towards f2p, which is now proving to be rather tiresome to many MMO gamers.

^^ this guy knows what he is talking about.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17224

12/22/13 2:10:14 AM#113
Originally posted by rodarin

 

Also sounds like theyre throwing together some sort of PvE 'end game' at this point so I am sure that will go over just great....

 

They are not "throwing together" some sort of pve 'end game'.

The pve end game has been in the planning for a long time. Whether they do it well is another thing but it's not like they suddenly decided to tack this thing on.

  Sleepyfish

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/25/09
Posts: 362

12/22/13 2:27:01 AM#114

When I think of this current crop of games they all remind me of no bullying zones where everyone is your friend and  you only need two fingers to play. I am amazed they have not made these games touch screen activated or voice controlled characters that fight for you and report you to the NSA for violent actions. For mmorpgs to work you cannot have this sterile kid friendly Discovery Zone. 

Character creation and theorycraft has been essentially eradicated in favor of premade templates with the option to change a few skills here and there based on whatever dungeon you are in. And it sucks. Killing the enemy in the open world is off limits because Timmys feelings might get hurt. Combat has become button spamming. Crafting reduced to making dyes out of oak bark. No I think the GW2, Neverwinter, ESO, TERA experiment was a failure that simply needs to go home and die at this point. Not sure about Wildstar yet, still trying to decide if it will suck to or not, oh yeh, EQN not keeping my hopes up on that one either. 

  SoMuchMass

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/13
Posts: 583

12/22/13 2:32:45 AM#115
Originally posted by DMKano
 

F2P game - player get bored and leave, no problem, they can leave and come back whenever they want, you are not under pressure to convince them to resub, the players don't feel pressured to play because they paid. 

When F2P model is done right (not predatory or manipulative) - its head and shoulders better than a sub model.

 

 

I have "gone back" to WoW more than any other MMO including F2P ones.  I think if the game is good, people will pay and come back.  This whole barrier to entry might be true, but it is overblown.  I literally have half a dozen F2P games on my HD right now, but never log in after I got bored of them.  

  Maquiame

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 627

Power without perception is spiritually useless and of no true value

12/22/13 8:53:50 AM#116
The game is dreadfully boring, and while looking good it kinda breaks my immersion seeing ten people running in line  to do another fetch quest in a TES game and the same fetch quest at that. 

Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

12/22/13 8:57:36 AM#117

I stopped taking the article serious when they voted Neverwinter as most underappreciated. Seriously? Neverwinter? Trololol.

If I had a crystal ball I'd be rich. ;)

Ok, it is fun to predict. But who can say. *shrug* I guess we really need a very fundamental MMO debate, how MMOs are supposed to develop. It just can't go on like this with the n-th EQ/WOW formula.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

12/22/13 9:03:17 AM#118

despite the warts, i do enjoy massively

it is irritating to me that they had a category called:  most likely to flop

 

every mmo has its fans

  Pigglesworth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

12/22/13 9:11:25 AM#119
Originally posted by Elikal

I stopped taking the article serious when they voted Neverwinter as most underappreciated. Seriously? Neverwinter? Trololol.

If I had a crystal ball I'd be rich. ;)

Ok, it is fun to predict. But who can say. *shrug* I guess we really need a very fundamental MMO debate, how MMOs are supposed to develop. It just can't go on like this with the n-th EQ/WOW formula.

You want something different, try EverQuest Next. It looks like it will be different. Not sure if it will work. I really hope it does. But, until something comes along that is better as a whole, not just this and that part, I will be playing ESO.

@PigglesworthTWR on Twitter

Pigglesworth @ EQNForum.com, MMORPG.com, EQNextfans.com, ProjectNorrath.com, & EQNFanSite.com

Malcontent @ EQNexus.com & EQHammer.com

  Dren_Utogi

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/10
Posts: 1468

12/22/13 9:27:56 AM#120

I've come to the conclusion :

 

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.

 

 

reviews are !@#$ing stupid. Play what you love.

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