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Elder Scrolls Online

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General Discussion  » Massively votes TESO most likely to flop

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262 posts found
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17382

12/21/13 1:19:56 PM#41
Originally posted by azurrei

 

TESO is an MMO set in the ES Universe, not an MMO version of TES: (insert name of ES game.)  There IS a difference.

I would say you are 100% correct.

I would also say that brings about its own issues.

MMO players want something more than what has already gone before. I'm not talking about the "completely 'new'/different" crowd as they don't understand tat nothing is really ever "new". Just maybe a different spin on what has already been done.

So the question is whether or not ESO can hold mmo players. On that note, there are those who would insist that it doesn't have to, just like all mmo games don't "have to" hold them. Just play and move on when you are ready.

There are also those who want mmo's to be more than just a few months of fun.

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/21/13 1:24:58 PM#42
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112

I think ES fans would translate more readily into mmo players than SW fans, plus I believe there is a small difference in the budgets.    

Why is that? Every ES is single player with absolutely no multi player capabilities. I good chuck of ES players play it BECAUSE it's single player. Not to mention an MMO Star Wars was already a huge success before SWTOR was made, that is, until SoE did what SoE does and screw up the entire game with NGE.  Which means a Star Wars MMO was alot less risky then an ES one.

I assumed when you were counting fans you meant fans of all and every aspect of the SW franchise, so my point was simply that as a percentage of the total a gamer (ES) is more likely to play a game than someone who enjoyed a film franchise (SW).  

  Kyleran

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12/21/13 1:26:03 PM#43
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by azurrei

 

TESO is an MMO set in the ES Universe, not an MMO version of TES: (insert name of ES game.)  There IS a difference.

I would say you are 100% correct.

I would also say that brings about its own issues.

MMO players want something more than what has already gone before. I'm not talking about the "completely 'new'/different" crowd as they don't understand tat nothing is really ever "new". Just maybe a different spin on what has already been done.

So the question is whether or not ESO can hold mmo players. On that note, there are those who would insist that it doesn't have to, just like all mmo games don't "have to" hold them. Just play and move on when you are ready.

There are also those who want mmo's to be more than just a few months of fun.

I'm starting to think this group is a smaller niche than the Full Loot, FFA PVP market these days.

Probably because we're spread all around countless MMOs as part of the loyal 100-200K that seem to stick with our game of choice while the rest of the world moves on.

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  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17382

12/21/13 1:35:25 PM#44
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Sovrath
 
There are also those who want mmo's to be more than just a few months of fun.

I'm starting to think this group is a smaller niche than the Full Loot, FFA PVP market these days.

Probably because we're spread all around countless MMOs as part of the loyal 100-200K that seem to stick with our game of choice while the rest of the world moves on.

I can agree with that as well.

  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

12/21/13 1:39:41 PM#45
Originally posted by Myria

The one that got me was "Biggest Innovation or Trend of 2013: The return of sandbox gameplay". Where exactly are all these "sandbox" games (assuming, of course, any two people could ever even agree on the meaning of the term)?

I think they mean more of a Resurgence in more Gamers asking for Sandbox MMOs and Developers actually thinking in less Linear and Themepark terms

The Trend now is Games (in Development) are leaning a little more to Sandbox elements

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  Myria

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 547

12/21/13 2:01:56 PM#46
Originally posted by CthulhuPuffs

I think they mean more of a Resurgence in more Gamers asking for Sandbox MMOs and Developers actually thinking in less Linear and Themepark terms

The Trend now is Games (in Development) are leaning a little more to Sandbox elements

What 'more Gamers'? If you mean the echo chambers of sites like this one and Massively, perhaps. But then, again, if they were representative of the market then WoW would be a niche game, ToR would have closed shop two years ago, and the genre would be ruled by F2P sandboxes.

 

And, what trend? Seems to me most of the big guns on the horizon are fairly standard "themeparks", however one cares to define that term. The only possible exception is EQN, and frankly I'll believe that when I see it. Trusting Smed's word on anything has never been a safe bet, not that he would even really have to lie, exactly, to get people around here to believe a game that hasn't even really entered alpha is everything they want it to be,

 

I've been hearing the whole "subs are dead, long live F2P" and "Themeparks are dead, long live sandboxes" mantra for almost two years now. It's starting to remind me of the 90's when every year was the year Linux was going to take over the desktop.

  reeereee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 710

12/21/13 2:16:54 PM#47
I think this news is extremely encouraging for TESO.  Anyone who thinks FFXIV is the game of the year, that Neverwinter is the most underrated mmo, and that the subscription model is a mistake picking a game to fail is like a stamp of sure success.
  Siphaed

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/08
Posts: 788

12/21/13 2:37:50 PM#48
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

If you read what they say it sounds like they think it's going to sell a lot of boxes and subs at least short term but it's long term viability is up in the air.  Well duh, if TESO doesn't innovate day 1 onward it is going to have issues holding onto subs.  They are going to have to fight every month to keep those subs by giving players something to sub for.

And I find it interesting they voted FFXIV game of the year and traditional sub models the biggest blunder of the year.   They do know it's a Sub game right?

 

As Bre explained in the comments section, Game of the Year has to be an MMORPG that launched in 2013 (that was their stipulation).  There were very short pickings between indie games,  Defiance,  FFXIV, and Neverwinter.   So, honestly it was the best of the worst.    

 

And the reason that traditional sub models is getting hot-listed for blunder is because of the plethora of non-sub, high-quality MMO's that have they have to compete with.     Games like GW2 having bi-weekly content updates show that a sub is not needed to do many updates compared to WoW's once-in-a-while patches every so many months for it's $15 monthly.     Their expansion of the year was one of those updates for GW2:  Super Adventure Box; that goes to show you something of the quality of it's content updates.

 

As for TESO, it will have issues.  So far it's a love it or hate it relationship with the press that's covered the game.  And it's become apparently clear that there's far more than 50% that are in the "hate it" category of that split.     Much of the hate is through people that are saying the animation/combat is nowhere near ready to launch and will need more than 4 months to fix;  it's clunky and troublesome for players to use compared other quality games.  Another issue, arguably the most important, is that it doesn't feel likea very well built, quality MMORPG.  Instead it feels more like an elder scrolls game with multiplayer slapped on haphazardly.

 

 

 

  Omnifish

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Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 615

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12/21/13 2:59:31 PM#49
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by udon
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

If you read what they say it sounds like they think it's going to sell a lot of boxes and subs at least short term but it's long term viability is up in the air.  Well duh, if TESO doesn't innovate day 1 onward it is going to have issues holding onto subs.  They are going to have to fight every month to keep those subs by giving players something to sub for.

And I find it interesting they voted FFXIV game of the year and traditional sub models the biggest blunder of the year.   They do know it's a Sub game right?

Payment model and game quality are 2 separate things.

Subscription model is going the way of the dinasaurs, I agree with that, especially from the developers viewpoint, as cash shop provides 100x more possibilities (give any type of player an option), while subscription is - convince all players that the game is worth another $15 for one more month.

So as a developer in sub model, its a losing battle as no matter how good your game is, players will get bored and unsub.

F2P game - player get bored and leave, no problem, they can leave and come back whenever they want, you are not under pressure to convince them to resub, the players don't feel pressured to play because they paid. 

When F2P model is done right (not predatory or manipulative) - its head and shoulders better than a sub model.

 

 

This is where the argument fails really for F2try, pay to progress games.

All cash shops are predatory and manipulative by nature because there a games sole source of income. Most of these survive because a few thousand people dump money into the shops every month. If people truly came and went and never spent anything, as you claim, the game would die. What gets developed is more fluff or more cock block items to get more money out of those people who invest money, thus any proper development or bug fixing gets ignored.

Subscribing means that ultimately the developer is responsible to those who pay the sub, like a magazine subscription. Bug issues? Get fixed because you might lose subs, new content? will happen periodically because you might lose subs. F2try games? who cares? some other mug will pay for the fluff/lockboxes if someone else leaves....

 

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  Jorl

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/12
Posts: 262

12/21/13 3:02:34 PM#50
I think the game looks like elderscrolls but I'm not going to jump in right away, wait a few weeks or months for the price to drop and all the queues die down. :)
  User Deleted
12/21/13 3:14:16 PM#51
Looking at the other "best of's" they selected, I can't really take the list seriously.  Defiance was a runner up for best new MMO?  I don't know, maybe 2013 really was just a bad year...
  Rohn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3754

12/21/13 3:18:59 PM#52
Originally posted by DMKano

http://i.massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/19/massivelys-best-of-2013-awards/

Thoughts?

I hope it does OK, I know some great folks working at Zenimax.

 

 

Massively.com is populated by hypocrites who have very little handle on the MMO scene.

Their Game of the Year came out in 2010, not 2013.  The same game won Most Improved, because it came out in 2010.  The same game is sub-based, which they list as the Biggest Blunder of the Year.

Their reasons for saying TESO will fail are suspect at best.

Massively.com has ZERO credibility.

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1791

12/21/13 3:25:05 PM#53

I personally find it near impossible to get an honest opinion on this game. Few here seem to be capable of looking at this game for what it is and how it will actually play as an mmo. 

 

All I see is a bunch of people acting like they are comparing future relationship options against their first girl/boyfriend that can never live up to their expectations.

 

As always I reserve my judgement until I actually play it. I will say (if in fact both games actually release within 6 months) that ESO and Archage are what most interest me within that timeline. ESO is entirely hinged upon if their systems they promise actually work. It is an odd hybrid that I haven't quite got my head wrapped around yet.

 

 

You stay sassy!

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3883

12/21/13 3:26:24 PM#54
Originally posted by reeereee
I think this news is extremely encouraging for TESO.  Anyone who thinks FFXIV is the game of the year, that Neverwinter is the most underrated mmo, and that the subscription model is a mistake picking a game to fail is like a stamp of sure success.

I agree. I've never found a reason to spend any time at Massively. The only times I ever go there is when they post yet another amateurish article written by gossip columnist wannabes and it gets linked here by someone who somehow takes them seriously.

 

I mean, who can forget their "ESO wil have a sub AND a cash shop" crap? Some people here even still believe that.

 

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2543

12/21/13 3:34:37 PM#55

I agree 100% TESO will fail misrable.

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  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1571

12/21/13 3:37:38 PM#56
Originally posted by Raquis

there is no way it will flop,they will just lets subs and game get cheaper along its life span.

these people know how to make games.thank goodness its not  a kill 5 rats game.

If you think the game doesn't have "kill ten" quests then you are in for a shock lol. Not saying it's like lotro "kill boars" quests but the game defo has some fed-x quests.

Every single mmo has fed-x questing to some degree.

As for the game flopping, no way in hell will it flop, not since battle.net and blizzard has a ip had such a non mmo player based ready to be introduced to the genera.

Console TES gamer's will not be able to resist an TES title even if it's an mmo.

 

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  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5939

12/21/13 3:37:56 PM#57
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
I think I feel quite annoyed when massively pretends to know what MMO gamers as a population think.

Me too. They wrote a craptastic year end article like this last year. It was equally as trite.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19249

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

12/21/13 3:40:17 PM#58
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by reeereee
I think this news is extremely encouraging for TESO.  Anyone who thinks FFXIV is the game of the year, that Neverwinter is the most underrated mmo, and that the subscription model is a mistake picking a game to fail is like a stamp of sure success.

I agree. I've never found a reason to spend any time at Massively. The only times I ever go there is when they post yet another amateurish article written by gossip columnist wannabes and it gets linked here by someone who somehow takes them seriously.

 

I mean, who can forget their "ESO wil have a sub AND a cash shop" crap? Some people here even still believe that.

 

Hmm, well I did believe this, and lots of links in a Google search support this, so I'd be interested in knowing why you believe otherwise?

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Pigglesworth

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Joined: 6/02/13
Posts: 266

12/21/13 3:42:23 PM#59
If its on the Internet it must be true.

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  CthulhuPuffs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/13
Posts: 379

Will consume your soul, yet stay crunchy in milk

12/21/13 3:48:14 PM#60
Massively.com votes ESO most likely to Fail, and MMORPG.com will most likely have every Site "reviewer" give the game a 9.0 (like they did with SWTOR) so it will all balance out in the end.

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