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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » Who is to blame for VG's lackluster performance?

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25 posts found
  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1288

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

 
OP  12/18/13 5:15:14 PM#1

A quote in another thread got me to thinking.


Originally posted by aspekx
...as screwy as (vanguard) was it actually had some rather imaginative / innovative bits to it...


Oh I totally agree. The game's UI was ground breaking. I blame Microsoft for VG's plight. They lacked faith and pulled funding. SOE took over the game, yay, but under some conditions. Conditions that, I feel, alienated VG from the very fans it was originally intended to please.

/edit, oops i mispelled McQuaid. Sowwy.

Who is to blame for VG's lackluster performance?

Microsoft (the original publisher who pulled the plug)
SOE (the publisher who adopted the game with some conditions)
Brad McQuad
(login to vote)

P L A N E T S I D E 1 is up !! check PS1 forum for link to current installer.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 814

12/18/13 5:29:18 PM#2

Sigil, not just Brad McQuaid.  Brad may have sucked at running the show, but the code for the game was apparently a disaster.  You can't blame microsoft for cutting funding, and SoE worked their assess off while receiving little income to improve the game.  SoE could have handled things a little differently in the last couple of years, but it wouldnt have made a big impact.

 

99% Brad/Sigil, 1% SoE

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1047

12/18/13 5:30:01 PM#3
Probably Brad McQuaid, but without real insider info, there is no way to tell.  If rumours of management misbehaviors were accurate, it's no wonder that Microsoft would pull the plug.

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Yyrkoon_PoM

Novice Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 150

12/18/13 5:47:36 PM#4
Sigil/Brad were 99.9999% the reason the game went live the way it did. It was like like watching the movie Titanic ... you just knew it was going to hit an iceberg.  As a previous poster noted SoE did what it could to get the game live .... even acquired all assets of Sigil after the game went live.  SoE was just the co-publisher, when Vanguard went live,  it was only after 4 months after that SoE took over instead of shut down. Basically Vanguard would have died if not for SoE ... the Vanguard team ... well most of them went down with the ship, which makes the biggest target  Brad.
  Darth-Batman

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 707

Bruce, I am your father.

12/18/13 5:52:13 PM#5
Didnt the guy fire everyone in the parking lot? That type of person should never be in charge of anything other than flushing their own poo down the toilet, maybe not even that.
  Big_Data

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/10
Posts: 48

12/19/13 10:17:39 PM#6

Everyone remembers the (unconfirmed) stories about parking lot firings and bad management, but no one recalls other details like how funding promised by Microsoft didn't come through, cutting development short.

  Letsinod

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/06
Posts: 325

12/19/13 10:29:36 PM#7

There was so many things that went wrong that a book could be written about it all.  Office affairs, parking lot firings, MS pulling funding for Xbox development, horrible coding, and massive changes to the core of the game in beta.  The one thing I have always wanted to know though was how much SOE paid to acquire it all.

 

 

  Xthos

Elite Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2623

12/19/13 10:33:33 PM#8

I would say their is blame to go around for everyone.

 

Microsoft got tired of delays and couldn't stomach that mmos often go over budget and are delayed, so they lost faith and wanted to cut ties.

 

Sigil/Brad - They were behind where they probably promised, which yes doesn't mean a lot in mmos, but they were behind.  They also supposedly had some jumbled bad code, and they were a little too ambitious with polygon counts and such that caused a lot of the hitching at release SoE said.

 

SoE - They helped, but they could of offered more support early on, to help avoid the release state that turned many off.  Then they pretty much abandoned it, after they promised a relaunch that didn't happen, before they abandoned it for a long time.

 

So blame for everyone, and yes they cut down on some of the old school aspects and made experience faster and less penalties for things, probably among many other things, been a long time.

 

I had a brand new computer that was a top end gaming machine, so I didn't have a horrible time playing through the bugs/lag, so I wasn't as jaded as some.  Vanguard is in my top 5 mmos, they had a lot of nice systems (crafting/harvesting/diplomacy/pve/world etc...).

 

I would go back and play Vanguard now, but I just don't see the type of commitment that would keep me playing, and I know it is a catch 22, no people, no development, but if they even said if we get 'x' number of new people, we will scale development with population or something, then it may spark some kind of growth, who knows?

 

VG was the last mmo that I played for a long time, nothing since...All new stuff feels shallow, mostly flash and graphics and not enough depth. 

  Big_Data

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/10
Posts: 48

12/19/13 10:34:44 PM#9

I wish someone would write a book!  Remember to that it appeared as though the main motivation SOE had in grabbing Vanguard was so it wouldn't compete against EverQuest 2.

After a while they kept it around as a value add for their station pass.

Although the project was mismanaged I think it all came apart when Microsoft decided to pull funding for the Xbox. The game was far from complete, and was basically forced into release.

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4348

12/19/13 10:42:06 PM#10

MS pulled funding because after almost a year of development sigil had nothing but video clips to show for it. I remember a post from one of the ex developers talking about almost the entire game was made in 9 months after soe came in and had deadlines.

I think there is only one person to blame for VG. He may of had great ideas but he did now have the skills required to run a whole team and see a game through.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  User Deleted
12/19/13 10:54:02 PM#11
Originally posted by syriinx

Sigil, not just Brad McQuaid.  Brad may have sucked at running the show, but the code for the game was apparently a disaster.  You can't blame microsoft for cutting funding, and SoE worked their assess off while receiving little income to improve the game.  SoE could have handled things a little differently in the last couple of years, but it wouldnt have made a big impact.

 

99% Brad/Sigil, 1% SoE

 

Pretty much this.  While the buck stops with Brad, he wasn't the only one to blame at Sigil. 

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2625

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

12/19/13 10:56:14 PM#12

I vote other.

 

Combat, absolutely one of the worst and slowest combats in any game I ever played.  It literally looks like the animations are stuck in slow-mo.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Alcuin

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 298

12/19/13 11:51:32 PM#13

I think the push for high end specs was partially to blame.  I guess that means Sigil & Brad are to blame, but they weren't alone in their thinking.  There was an ironic philosophy about tech back then.  I remember it from the id software days  of DOOM and Quake.  There were extreme system requirements and it seemed average people could not play the game without an expensive upgrade- maybe even a whole new computer.  These extreme requirements may have affected how system resources were used and how things were coded, but I don't know enough to say so with certainty.  Like others, I've also heard over the years that the code was horrible.

 

The extreme system requirements thing had happened with EQ2 too.  I remember not being able to run it on all but the lowest of settings and even then it was a slideshow in the cities.

So at that time I stuck with EQ1 and then... WoW, which ran just fine on my system at the time. 

 

When Vanguard sputtered to life, I didn't even attempt to buy it.  I wasn't going to go through the same thing I went through with EQ2.  I think I stuck with CoH at the time.  

_____________________________
"Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit"

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3031

12/20/13 12:00:18 AM#14
I can forgive a bad launch, but I won't forgive bad support.  SOE could have easily fixed problems, but instead they did what they always do with games the aquire.  They do nothing with them.  You're lucky to get a patch once a year from them that actually does anything, and that patch is an expansion you have to buy.

Best Game Ever? Highest game rated on Metacritic!

  Big_Data

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/10
Posts: 48

12/20/13 9:47:43 AM#15


Originally posted by Alcuin I think the push for high end specs was partially to blame.  I guess that means Sigil & Brad are to blame, but they weren't alone in their thinking.  There was an ironic philosophy about tech back then.  I remember it from the id software days  of DOOM and Quake.  There were extreme system requirements and it seemed average people could not play the game without an expensive upgrade- maybe even a whole new computer.  These extreme requirements may have affected how system resources were used and how things were coded, but I don't know enough to say so with certainty.  Like others, I've also heard over the years that the code was horrible.   The extreme system requirements thing had happened with EQ2 too.  I remember not being able to run it on all but the lowest of settings and even then it was a slideshow in the cities. So at that time I stuck with EQ1 and then... WoW, which ran just fine on my system at the time.    When Vanguard sputtered to life, I didn't even attempt to buy it.  I wasn't going to go through the same thing I went through with EQ2.  I think I stuck with CoH at the time.  
 

Exactly this. They assumed that people like you would upgrade, since many people were willing to do that to play EQ1. They didn't anticipate that A. people were burnt out from upgrading and B. there were other MMO options that required less tech to play (WoW).

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 814

12/20/13 9:52:29 AM#16
Originally posted by Big_Data

Remember to that it appeared as though the main motivation SOE had in grabbing Vanguard was so it wouldn't compete against EverQuest 2.

 

Only to stupid people.  No one else was picking up Vanguard.  Its only chance of release after microsoft dumped it was SoE.  If they were worried about the competition they would have just let it become vaporware.

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 814

12/20/13 9:54:29 AM#17
Originally posted by Gravarg
I can forgive a bad launch, but I won't forgive bad support.  SOE could have easily fixed problems, but instead they did what they always do with games the aquire.  They do nothing with them.  You're lucky to get a patch once a year from them that actually does anything, and that patch is an expansion you have to buy.

I guess you were in a coma for the 18 months where they made the game playable and added content?  SoE supported Vanguard.  Players did not.  

  fantasyfreak112

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/13
Posts: 523

12/20/13 9:59:57 AM#18
Are people serious voting Microsoft? Brad wasn't even in his office 90% of the time during his own games development. That shows a distinct lack of caring.
  Sajman01

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 208

12/20/13 10:02:16 AM#19

Shrug.

I know for myself, I picked up the game because my system specs were just above the requirement. Went to play the game and it was unplayable. Tried to do some config changes and nothing worked. Quit it and never looked back.

  Vonatar

Elite Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 553

12/20/13 10:03:03 AM#20

Lacklustre launch: Brad/Sigil for failing to execute.

 

Lacklustre performance to date: SOE, for failing to promote and develop what they had.

 

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