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Hardware  » Finally WINDOWS 8.2 going back to classic desktop we know sinds win95!

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44 posts found
  Mendel

Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 610

12/11/13 9:40:00 AM#21

To me, the saddest thing about the whole Win 8 touchscreen-tablet-OS-for-your-PC fiasco was that there was no competitor ready to pounce on this corporate blunder with a competitive product.  There was money to be made, vast amounts of it, and a opportunity to be grasped.  But there's no real vendor competing for the OS market, and the customers are at the mercy of Microsoft.

Such are the dangers of an OS monopoly.

Edit:  For the record, I was happy with XP.  The only advance Win 7 gave me was DirectX10 and DirectX 11.  Those could have been fitted to XP just as easily.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3303

12/11/13 10:50:57 AM#22


Originally posted by Mendel
To me, the saddest thing about the whole Win 8 touchscreen-tablet-OS-for-your-PC fiasco was that there was no competitor ready to pounce on this corporate blunder with a competitive product.  There was money to be made, vast amounts of it, and a opportunity to be grasped.  But there's no real vendor competing for the OS market, and the customers are at the mercy of Microsoft.

Such are the dangers of an OS monopoly.


That's largely because Microsoft is right - the desktop PC isn't dead, but it's been relegated to old hardware and the workplace where you can't get away from Word/Excel/Photoshop/Visual Studio/etc.

All the new consumer computing is mobile and/or touchscreen. Go to Best Buy, or Costco, or Wal-Mart, and 75%+ of all computers there will either be laptops (many with touchscreens), hybrids (most with touchscreens) or tablets (almost all with touchscreens). And even that market is rapidly shifting - most of those tablets and many of those hybrids and laptops aren't running x86 - they are running ARM, and a lightweight OS (Android/iOS) and leveraging connectivity (i.e. "The Cloud") to make up the difference - and while there will always be some segment that this can't work for, for many many people, it does works, and it works very well.

Apple realized this back in 2008 - and that's why we haven't seen much movement in their desktop hardware or software -- it's still there, they know people will always have a need for it, but that isn't a growing segment. Desktop use is on the decline to some baseline level -- you support what you already have, you make incremental low-effort improvements so you don't drop off the map, but you don't throw a lot of money in after it thinking it'll be huge.

Windows already has two major competitors (although I hesitate to call them competition, that really isn't the right word, because your right, they have a near monopoly on the desktop OS) - OS X is popular, but it's hardware restricted, you can't run it on any desktop, so that's a big setback to OS X. And there's Linux, but it's fragmented into hundreds of different distributions, all hoping to be the next breakout -- but not many of them have much in the way of financial backing, and the fragmentation (which they love to bill as "choice") is actually a detractor, particularly when it introduces problems with software distribution and compatibility. Maybe SteamOS will help solidify that camp, but that remains to be seen.

So why would something new jump in there? They'd be jumping after a sinking ship, and I think most companies that are in a position to develop or release a desktop OS realize that.

The problem Microsoft has is that they realized this about 4 years too late. They needed to start shifting with this after Vista. They have a good strategy with Windows 8 - provide a common interface across phone/tablet/touch/desktop - that makes sense, on paper. And if your coming into computers fresh - it works ok because you don't have any preconceived notion of what should be where. But pretty much everyone is comfortable with the desktop metaphor - it's been around since before 1984 where the original Macintosh made it the de facto standard (iirc they ripped it off of Xerox Parc to be fair). Windows 8, in all it's incarnations, makes a push away from that. Compound that by the fact that there's a lot of inoperability between the different Windows 8 versions (aside from Office, what else can you do on RT?), and you end up with 3 different versions of Windows 8 that, while they look the same on the outside, really aren't the same at all and are extremely segregated in terms of what they have available.

The Windows 8 plan sounded good in theory, but it failed in execution of the little details. If you could run Phone/RT apps on an x86 (via an emulator, which probably exists for developers), and one purchase works on all devices (Phone/RT/x86), and x86 didn't treat every computer as a handheld touchscreen (try having a forced full screen email client on a 32" monitor - it's ridiculous - and that's the real problem with Metro, not the Live Tiles Start screen), and a handful of other minor details that got glossed over in the touch-inspired mania, the Windows 8 ecosystem would have been a juggernaut.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3700

12/13/13 9:35:05 PM#23
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I got new PC year ago. Acidentally it was in same time Win8 was launching and I got the deal for 15$ so i installed it.

So yes, the Metro interface sucked. But it took me 1 minute to install Start8 , app that basically removes Win8 interface and turns it into Win7 interface.

 

So how is Win8 (but with normal interface)

Basically its much faster version of win8 with many improved functions. Better file explorer , file indexing , built in firewall , better task manager , better memory indexing , and freeze protection.

And it boots in (i measured it) 6 seconds!

Can win7 do that ?

 

 

So yes sad decision for interface (metro) but it was 1 minute fix. Otherwise much better and faster system.

Did the same with Start8 and I agree: it really is a better OS. All the knocks against metro are justified but that spills over into knocks against the OS itself that are not.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1629

12/13/13 9:50:46 PM#24

First of all Microsoft doesn't give a flying %#$& about pc gamers. The reason win 8 exists is for the new platforms out there and for enterprise environments. 99% of you won't even use the advanced enterprise options included within win 8 or know about how it works even if using it at work.

 

Gamers are not the driving force behind these changes. I deal with clients every day that still use the old win 98 interface and if you move one icon on their desktop they become completely lost. It is the business user driving change not pc gamers.

 

Gamers can move to win 8 for whatever reason but it certainly isn't one MS really cares about.

You stay sassy!

  Nhoj1983

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/08
Posts: 183

12/13/13 10:32:28 PM#25
Well that's good news.  I like 8.  While I too pretty much am tired of hearing "I hate it because it's different" this would be a welcome change.   I'm not sure I'll run pure "classic mode" if there's a place in between.  I like having my mail front and center.  I like my apps.  I really like the idea of running those apps windowed.  Windows 8 has been better for performance gaming wise especially since 8.1.  it brought a lot when introducing the windows app store even for desktops.  I won't go back to 7.  Not because it's not a perfectly solid os but because there are things in 8 I've learned to not want to live without.  The main reason 8 isn't just simply "great" is that you have two kinds of programs.  The new apps and the legacy desktop programs.  Get rid of that divide and there goes the last legitimate reason not to run the OS as a consumer. 
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5492

12/14/13 1:14:30 AM#26

Meh, I like Start Screen. I'm a control freak and like being able to create program groups.

I have to use Win7 at work. I would love to use Mint or Win8, but it's just too much to ask my boss to fork over for additional Windows licenses just so I can have a more comfy work environment. I do use Win8 at home when I'm working remotely and I love it. I'm also a huge fan of Linux Mint and honestly would use that as my main OS if I could easily get my games to work on it.

What I would like to see out of future iterations of Windows:

- Top Priority: Merge explorer and modern. Having two separate and essentially disparate systems try and control one piece of hardware is ludicrous in my opinion. They need to merge them and have different modes of operation by default on different types of hardware.

- Windowed Modern Apps: In a desktop environment modern apps need to have a windowed mode. Actually they just need to revamp how windows programs work. If they merged explorer.exe and modern interface this could be addressed.

- Ditch native backwards compatibility: This is subjective, but Microsoft needs to find a point and stop supporting old programs directly. They could virtualize the runtime sort of like Win7 pro does with xp mode apps. I haven't research too far into this, but backwards compatibility is a serious problem.

When you look deeply at how things work and some of their implementations there is sort of a mess under the hood of Windows. It's not huge, but it is significant. For example, try moving the User directory from the standard C: drive to another drive. It's a nightmare. The defaults, limitations, and folder structure requirements of the modern interface seriously inhibit and interfere with user control of the OS. The two systems (explorer and modern) don't respect each other. What I mean is what you can do in one, permissibly can break the other. I find the modern interface to be the more restrictive and less polished of the two. Modern was bolted on and that is a problem.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Eyrothath

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/01/08
Posts: 198

12/14/13 1:27:58 AM#27
Why doesn't Microsoft just make a OS that would appeal to PC gamers?
  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5020

12/14/13 1:46:57 AM#28
Originally posted by Eyrothath
Why doesn't Microsoft just make a OS that would appeal to PC gamers?

They did, its called Win 7/64 bit.  And for the record, windows 8 is nowhere near as good, and for those who seem to think that win 8 has a faster boot time, thats only into the rt interface mode, not the desktop, and to boot that fast to desktop you would need a SSD, but here's the thing, if you use sleep mode on win 7, it boots to desktop in just 2 or 3 seconds, and thats without a SSD. Whichever way you cut it, Win 8 does not improve on Win 7 in any single way that actually matters, Windows 8 is just a mistake, its based on faulty design reasoning - integrate Xbox and PC's. The only way MS is going to sell a new OS now, that will really encourage gamers, and by definition, Win 7 users to 'upgrade' is to come out with a Win 9 that actually improves something. Win 8 is a dead end, much the same way that Windows ME was (and who remembers that without using 4 letter words!)

Win 8 is dead. MS is trying to revive a corpse

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1044

12/14/13 2:19:17 AM#29

Win8's big thing was to force people into using Microsoft's mobile interface, to get them used to it, instead of Android or ios or some such.  It was a brain dead move because it forced a touchscreen interface onto a user base that had a very low percentage of touchscreens.  It could easilly have asked (or checked) at installation which you had.  But that wasn't the point.   They also focused strongly on optimizing start up times, because they had discovered through focus groups that that's what people mostly noticed.   There's also the lure of a walled-garden Apple-style app store.   Microsoft would love to control that sort of thing. 

 

Instead of providing options they decided to throw in all sorts of basically unneeded desktop changes.  In part because if they didn't have loads of changes, people might ask why they didn't just upgrade Win7.  

 

When I get a touchscreen, I will try Win8. 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  sbanting

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 235

12/14/13 2:33:49 AM#30
The way I saw it, they tried to have one OS look for their console, tablets and PCs, so people could easily go from one device to another and know exactly how to use without ever picking up that device before. While this is all nice if all three worked the same, or all three platforms were new, but as a long term windows user, I remember 3.11 and the change to 95 all the way up to windows 7, I touched windows 8 about 3 times so far, and it just felt clunky, I had to do about 3 more things to get to the same place as on windows 7, for no real reason. I'm glad they are moving back to the normal desktop, ad i hope there is a speed increase from win 7, even though its fast I have heard newer tech is enabling win 8 to be even faster, whether thats true or not is to be seen. But probably like some, I'll most likely just wait for windows 9 lol.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1800

12/14/13 10:03:33 AM#31

I would not mind actually upgrading from win 7 to win 8 but there just is not enough of a reason to at this time. Win 7 functions just fine for what I need, my wife and kid are used to it and can navigate it quickly. For my household there is no justification for buying two copies of Win 8 to put on our PCs. I can live with a 15 sec boot time vs a 6 second boot time.

I think for many people this holds true. When win 7 is working great, with a familiar  and easy to navigate UI why spend the money on something just because its new.

Personally I would like to have 8 on my PC, but other than the fact that I want it there is no reason to spend money on a new OS when 7 is doing everything I need it to and more.

I can see the appeal, just not $100 worth to me personally.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/14/13 10:34:15 AM#32


Originally posted by jdnewell
I would not mind actually upgrading from win 7 to win 8 but there just is not enough of a reason to at this time. Win 7 functions just fine for what I need, my wife and kid are used to it and can navigate it quickly. For my household there is no justification for buying two copies of Win 8 to put on our PCs. I can live with a 15 sec boot time vs a 6 second boot time.

I think for many people this holds true. When win 7 is working great, with a familiar  and easy to navigate UI why spend the money on something just because its new.

Personally I would like to have 8 on my PC, but other than the fact that I want it there is no reason to spend money on a new OS when 7 is doing everything I need it to and more.

I can see the appeal, just not $100 worth to me personally.




I haven't reached the point that the marginal benefits of upgrading from XP are worth upgrading to Win 7 yet. I suppose I'll have to skip Win 7 and go straight to Win 8. :-)

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10375

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/14/13 10:36:25 AM#33


Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Eyrothath Why doesn't Microsoft just make a OS that would appeal to PC gamers?
They did, its called Win 7/64 bit.  And for the record, windows 8 is nowhere near as good, and for those who seem to think that win 8 has a faster boot time, thats only into the rt interface mode, not the desktop, and to boot that fast to desktop you would need a SSD, but here's the thing, if you use sleep mode on win 7, it boots to desktop in just 2 or 3 seconds, and thats without a SSD. Whichever way you cut it, Win 8 does not improve on Win 7 in any single way that actually matters, Windows 8 is just a mistake, its based on faulty design reasoning - integrate Xbox and PC's. The only way MS is going to sell a new OS now, that will really encourage gamers, and by definition, Win 7 users to 'upgrade' is to come out with a Win 9 that actually improves something. Win 8 is a dead end, much the same way that Windows ME was (and who remembers that without using 4 letter words!)

Win 8 is dead. MS is trying to revive a corpse




I was under the impression that while Win 8 isn't a huge leap over Win 7, it's certainly not any worse.

Maybe SteamOS will actually take off and gamers will have an OS made just for them. :-)

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  achesoma

Novice Member

Joined: 5/05/05
Posts: 958

12/14/13 10:47:37 AM#34
Got new rig with win 8.1 works just fine. It's easy to setup in classic mode with start button and boot to desktop.  Not quite sure what all the fuss is. 

  zevian

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 375

12/14/13 10:57:38 AM#35

Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Eyrothath Why doesn't Microsoft just make a OS that would appeal to PC gamers?
They did, its called Win 7/64 bit.  And for the record, windows 8 is nowhere near as good, and for those who seem to think that win 8 has a faster boot time, thats only into the rt interface mode, not the desktop, and to boot that fast to desktop you would need a SSD, but here's the thing, if you use sleep mode on win 7, it boots to desktop in just 2 or 3 seconds, and thats without a SSD. Whichever way you cut it, Win 8 does not improve on Win 7 in any single way that actually matters, Windows 8 is just a mistake, its based on faulty design reasoning - integrate Xbox and PC's. The only way MS is going to sell a new OS now, that will really encourage gamers, and by definition, Win 7 users to 'upgrade' is to come out with a Win 9 that actually improves something. Win 8 is a dead end, much the same way that Windows ME was (and who remembers that without using 4 letter words!)

 

Win 8 is dead. MS is trying to revive a corpse




I was under the impression that while Win 8 isn't a huge leap over Win 7, it's certainly not any worse.

Maybe SteamOS will actually take off and gamers will have an OS made just for them. :-)

 

 

 

Steam OS, will rely on developers making games for it.   ( or having 2 PCS 1 running steamOS and the other running windows to stream your games from)   I hope to see some devs start supporting linux though

Originally posted by achesoma
Got new rig with win 8.1 works just fine. It's easy to setup in classic mode with start button and boot to desktop.  Not quite sure what all the fuss is. 

Windows 8.1 is great, and its really easy to use.   I never use the metro screen nor do i need to use any "apps" it offers.

 

It looks different and that must be worse is the biggest thing i see people having issues with.   Once you learn how to use it,  Getting things done and finding things is much easier.

 

The only real issue i have with windows 8 is i cant get my computer to sleep or wake up from sleep properly.

 

  Mystralz

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 28

12/14/13 11:08:32 AM#36

To repeat a year later windows 8 is faster.  You guys miss all the important stuff.  For anyone with any kind of knowledge about windows shortcuts from like the 90s will find it much easier to use windows 8.  Sure hitting windows key d to bring you to the desktop each day you log in is an extra half a second to complain about but really get over it.  Plus doesn't windows 8.1 have direct to desktop boot.

But that's not the problem with windows 8.  The problem is all your apps that aren't compliant that are mostly old like lineage 2.  Wont work.  And lineage 2 in particular will make your system completely freeze demanding a complete reboot.

 

I'm actually on windows 8 and have not upgrade to windows 8.1.  Because when you look deep into the files running you will find a whole bunch of junk that you wouldn't want.  Such as a built in vpn, skydrive.  Also something that wasn't in the windows 8 beta which is in both released copies of windows 8 now is the built in virus support which has been rated the worst with alot of false positives.  You can't even disable it.  Games affected are aion and I imagine is the problem with lineage except causes your system to freeze because it thinks the anti hack program is a virus which is kind of is but doesn't really pose much harm to your computer.  Then there's also a connection with microsoft thats open all the time which makes you a little worried about security.  These are just a few examples of major problems with windows 8 that a not even complete software savy person noticed. 

Windows 8 is mostly made for mostly average consumers to boost the economy by helping people to  find stuff to buy.  It is not really recommended for working enviroments completely.  But microsoft operating system is practically a monopoly owning practically all operating systems with 90%+.  And gaming wise it's the only operating system choice.  Steamos just went into open beta but even when it launch I think they already said it only supports a very limited amount of games and only games on the steam client.  It's something to hope for to have other options but I imagine it wont really matter much for a few years.

  zevian

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/07
Posts: 375

12/14/13 11:13:08 AM#37
Originally posted by Mystralz

To repeat a year later windows 8 is faster.  You guys miss all the important stuff.  For anyone with any kind of knowledge about windows shortcuts from like the 90s will find it much easier to use windows 8.  Sure hitting windows key d to bring you to the desktop each day you log in is an extra half a second to complain about but really get over it.  Plus doesn't windows 8.1 have direct to desktop boot.

But that's not the problem with windows 8.  The problem is all your apps that aren't compliant that are mostly old like lineage 2.  Wont work.  And lineage 2 in particular will make your system completely freeze demanding a complete reboot.

 

I'm actually on windows 8 and have not upgrade to windows 8.1.  Because when you look deep into the files running you will find a whole bunch of junk that you wouldn't want.  Such as a built in vpn, skydrive.  Also something that wasn't in the windows 8 beta which is in both released copies of windows 8 now is the built in virus support which has been rated the worst with alot of false positives.  You can't even disable it.  Games affected are aion and I imagine is the problem with lineage except causes your system to freeze because it thinks the anti hack program is a virus which is kind of is but doesn't really pose much harm to your computer.  Then there's also a connection with microsoft thats open all the time which makes you a little worried about security.  These are just a few examples of major problems with windows 8 that a not even complete software savy person noticed. 

Windows 8 is mostly made for mostly average consumers to boost the economy by helping people to  find stuff to buy.  It is not really recommended for working enviroments completely.  But microsoft operating system is practically a monopoly owning practically all operating systems with 90%+.  And gaming wise it's the only operating system choice.  Steamos just went into open beta but even when it launch I think they already said it only supports a very limited amount of games and only games on the steam client.  It's something to hope for to have other options but I imagine it wont really matter much for a few years.

I have windows defender turned off, with no ill side effects, Ive played Aion and lineage 2 with no issues.   I havent installed a game yet that didnt work with windows 8.   I have skydrive disabled in services now, (never used it or was forced too before disabling it).   Built in VPN?  never used it, never came across it and its never caused an issue if i havent noticed it.  Thanks for telling me though ive been disabling allow remote assistance since windows XP.   /shrug

  strangepowers

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 560

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12/14/13 11:27:43 AM#38


Originally posted by zevian
Meh,   at this point i could care less about the start menu,  ive been using windows 8 since it came out and have adjusted to typing for things I want,   or having a folder on my desktop for games/apps.

 

I dont use the metro interface for anything.

 

 

I guess this will be good for all the troglodytes who cant be bothered to learn something new though.


I know it makes you feel better by acting superior and calling others "troglodytes" but in the end its a true indication how inane and insecure you really are.

It's an old saying that sticks around because of the inherent truth, If it's not broken don't fix it.

The interface was an attempt at pushing people toward the tech they wanted to market and sell period, it was unnecessary being put on PC's.

The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  jdnewell

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/06
Posts: 1800

12/14/13 4:34:45 PM#39
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by jdnewell
I would not mind actually upgrading from win 7 to win 8 but there just is not enough of a reason to at this time. Win 7 functions just fine for what I need, my wife and kid are used to it and can navigate it quickly. For my household there is no justification for buying two copies of Win 8 to put on our PCs. I can live with a 15 sec boot time vs a 6 second boot time.

 

I think for many people this holds true. When win 7 is working great, with a familiar  and easy to navigate UI why spend the money on something just because its new.

Personally I would like to have 8 on my PC, but other than the fact that I want it there is no reason to spend money on a new OS when 7 is doing everything I need it to and more.

I can see the appeal, just not $100 worth to me personally.




I haven't reached the point that the marginal benefits of upgrading from XP are worth upgrading to Win 7 yet. I suppose I'll have to skip Win 7 and go straight to Win 8. :-)

 

If you are buying an OS for a new build or buying a new PC then I would get Win 8 as there would be no reason really to get 7.

Buying 8 when you already have 7  is IMO not worth the money. I installed 7 when I built my PCs, before then I ran XP until I built and actually had to buy a new OS license. If I built or bought a new PC today it would have 8 on it.

Thats just my opinion.

  Kilrain

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/03
Posts: 473

12/14/13 4:46:14 PM#40
Originally posted by Beastn
I just bought a new gaming rig and un selected Windows 8.1 and " down graded" my os to Windows 7.... best choice ever.. Windows 8 blows

windows 8 actually out performs windows 7. I'm not an advocate of the start window but I hate the start menu just as much. I prefer to use Launchy and the taskbar for everything. 

To the above poster that was saying something negative about a tablet OS being  a mistake. That's completely false as with a tablet the "metro" interface works quite well. The problem Microsoft did was making it the default interface regardless of what type of system you were using.

Most people complaining about Windows 8 just don't like "different", they can't adjust so they complain.

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