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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Why does TESO have such a split reaction?

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191 posts found
  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/10/13 8:49:25 AM#61

I think the hate (which I will never understand hating a video game) comes from two groups.

 

Group A the PC gods,  I own a beast of a PC and an xbox one, I would agree that mmos works better on PC but I see no reason why it can't work on the console.  As of now I'm buying it for the xbox one I have enough mmos on my PC.  Maybe it's getting old but I'd rather sit in my recliner with a beer in the can holder in front of my 60in tv with surround sound using a controller.  

 

Group B the f2pers/entitlement group.  These guys are ruining the mmo community in general (not all but a good % of them) there is a reason they are not allowed in game forums or game communities take a nose dive once the game goes f2p.  These guys are all pissed cause they won't get to play it free (which I'm glad it's a sub).  So what do they do come on forums like this a spam lies about a video game that's not released and in beta seen up to level 17.  They start lies like mages can't wear plate, you can't use any weapon you want, there will be a cash shop etc etc.  it's just sad in my opinion that a person hopes anything failes especially a video game just so they can play it and cry it's not free enough. 

 

For or those that keep saying it already failed well if bet a lot of the more then 3,000,000 who signed up for beta would disagree.  Looks like we will have a new Swtor on our hands,  tons of hate (again really you hate a video game) after a few months the majority of haters will move on but a select few of special haters will spam every single eso post and copy/paste the same stuff for years to come.  

  User Deleted
12/10/13 9:06:36 AM#62
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Arglebargle
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Its because its obvious its being run by publishers, not by devs.

 

Initially it looked to be a well designed DAOC remake in an Elderscrolls skin (which was its best chance). Then it started looking like a WOW clone, then press moved against it and it started sounding like GW2, then it started sounding like a singleplayer ES game with MMO bits tacked on. Its a mess and the devs don't seem to have any coherent vision.

Don't think it had a good chance, period.   When you don the Elderscrolls skin, you get the Elderscrolls expectations.   They made a ton of decisions early in the process that ended up not sitting well with their fanbase. 

The singleplayer fanbase, aka, the fanbase that wouldn't stick with the game very long, regardless of how similar it was to ES singleplayer games. That isn't the fanbase they should have tried to please. SWTOR tried to please singleplayer fans and all that got them was bankrupt.

RvR is the best design decision this game has. There's a reason DAoC was one of the most popular, best loved MMOs of all time, and that requires locked factions.

 

You have some strong feelings on the subject but are making too many brisk assumptions about who would stick to the game and who is in control and what lead to MMO X's failure. I mean you could just as easily argue that the included game features are so same old, same old, that not even die hard MMO players are going to stick with playing because they have seen everything here before multiple times and are worn out and jaded on this kind of play.

 

From outside the box, I would loosely agree that they look disorganized, without some cohesive vision, and are making changes based on feedback that run contrary to what the game needed to meet the original idea with regards to factions, opening enemy territory to exploration, and other issues.  It's like some one read the initial backlash at announcement and had a panic attack.  I would also say they are frustrated from outside the box and that's lead to some coming across as rather ill tempered inside.

 

Say what you want but the bottom line is that they have made a faction PVP game to appeal to a traditionally PVE audience for Elder Scrolls players and it's bound to rub that core fan base for the IP all kinds of wrong. They have no real virtual world to explore with dungeons around every corner, houses to buy or build, or cool  cosmetics to craft and are going to hate what's on tap. That's RVR...

 

I honestly think they would have been better off adding co-op to the next Elder Scrolls game and creating a MOBA or online battlefield RVR game in the meantime. That's right. I am writing that they may not should have tried to make this MMORPG that will satisfy no one in the end. But it was a real opportunity to do something new and fresh but some one was to conservative to take the chance.

  gwei1984

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/12
Posts: 378

12/10/13 9:43:25 AM#63
Originally posted by TheHavok
Don't knock it till you try it. If being on the Internet has taught me anything it is that the collective opinion of anonymous users on the Internet is as varied and random as it gets. MMO gamers are the most finicky bunch of nerds you will ever come across and for that reason the only opinion you can fully trust is your own.

This sums up all the history of MMO gaming culture and this site!

Hodor!

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

12/10/13 9:43:32 AM#64
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Arglebargle
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Its because its obvious its being run by publishers, not by devs.

 

Initially it looked to be a well designed DAOC remake in an Elderscrolls skin (which was its best chance). Then it started looking like a WOW clone, then press moved against it and it started sounding like GW2, then it started sounding like a singleplayer ES game with MMO bits tacked on. Its a mess and the devs don't seem to have any coherent vision.

Don't think it had a good chance, period.   When you don the Elderscrolls skin, you get the Elderscrolls expectations.   They made a ton of decisions early in the process that ended up not sitting well with their fanbase. 

The singleplayer fanbase, aka, the fanbase that wouldn't stick with the game very long, regardless of how similar it was to ES singleplayer games. That isn't the fanbase they should have tried to please. SWTOR tried to please singleplayer fans and all that got them was bankrupt.

RvR is the best design decision this game has. There's a reason DAoC was one of the most popular, best loved MMOs of all time, and that requires locked factions.

 

You have some strong feelings on the subject but are making too many brisk assumptions about who would stick to the game and who is in control and what lead to MMO X's failure. I mean you could just as easily argue that the included game features are so same old, same old, that not even die hard MMO players are going to stick with playing because they have seen everything here before multiple times and are worn out and jaded on this kind of play.

 

From outside the box, I would loosely agree that they look disorganized, without some cohesive vision, and are making changes based on feedback that run contrary to what the game needed to meet the original idea with regards to factions, opening enemy territory to exploration, and other issues.  It's like some one read the initial backlash at announcement and had a panic attack.  I would also say they are frustrated from outside the box and that's lead to some coming across as rather ill tempered inside.

I agree with most of this. As for the "same old same old" if they had stuck with their original DAoC design vision, most of those ideas would have seemed fresh and amazing to the vast majority of MMO players who haven't seen those features since 2003.

And don't count RvR out just yet. One of the best things about DAoC was that it had some of the best raid content around, but RvR was the focus. This meant you could have massive raids without tiers or gear grinds, as most of the time people were defending the realm, or crafting for the war effort. Raids could be done in down time for fun, as the gear you got was prettier, but not better, than crafted gear. RvR benefits everyone, as it keeps people sticking to a game for a long long time. And I think most people who claim to dislike PvP just haven't played a good PvP game (as there have been precious few).

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17627

12/10/13 9:58:58 AM#65
Originally posted by TibernicuspaAnd I think most people who claim to dislike PvP just haven't played a good PvP game (as there have been precious few).

I think most people who don't like pvp don't like it because of some of the people involved, "regardless' of whether it's a good pvp game or not. Which is entirely subjective.

  207312

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 30

12/10/13 10:10:48 AM#66

It really doesn't feel anything like a real Elder Scrolls game to be honest. Beyond that, it's extremely under-developed so far, and should not have entered closed beta - maybe Alpha or some other earlier stage, but not beta. I was wrought with dozens of game-breaking glitches while playing, and couldn't reach level 2 without dealing with most of these glitches.

Besides that, using Low settings usually results in Further graphical glitches, making it even more impossible for people on lower-end gaming systems to play.

 

 

Beyond the rough-edges that are expected of an early work of a game, it seems generic but well done. It'll honestly vary from person to person if they want to play or not, but I think it'll be worth a try for most. It honestly isn't worth playing the Closed Beta yet though.

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/10/13 10:14:24 AM#67
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by TibernicuspaAnd I think most people who claim to dislike PvP just haven't played a good PvP game (as there have been precious few).

I think most people who don't like pvp don't like it because of some of the people involved, "regardless' of whether it's a good pvp game or not. Which is entirely subjective.

Exactly is all subjective.

 

I think most people that I know that don't like pvp is because they like pve better.  To make a broad statement and act like its fact is rediculous.  Just because someone claims they don't like pvp has nothing to do with them not playing a particular pvp game that you think (again not fact that what you think is a good pvp game others will) is good.  

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/10/13 10:20:27 AM#68
Originally posted by 207312

It really doesn't feel anything like a real Elder Scrolls game to be honest. Beyond that, it's extremely under-developed so far, and should not have entered closed beta - maybe Alpha or some other earlier stage, but not beta. I was wrought with dozens of game-breaking glitches while playing, and couldn't reach level 2 without dealing with most of these glitches.

Besides that, using Low settings usually results in Further graphical glitches, making it even more impossible for people on lower-end gaming systems to play.

 

 

Beyond the rough-edges that are expected of an early work of a game, it seems generic but well done. It'll honestly vary from person to person if they want to play or not, but I think it'll be worth a try for most. It honestly isn't worth playing the Closed Beta yet though.

 

Hmm my experience was the complete opposite, as was the ten others I know who were in the last beta.  Level two?   So in the first 10-15 min that statement seems a little suspicious and or exaggerated .  If you have been in other game betas I'd say it was on par with the rest.  
  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

12/10/13 10:32:01 AM#69


Originally posted by Kicksave321


Group B the f2pers/entitlement group.  These guys are ruining the mmo community in general (not all but a good % of them) there is a reason they are not allowed in game forums or game communities take a nose dive once the game goes f2p.  These guys are all pissed cause they won't get to play it free (which I'm glad it's a sub).  So what do they do come on forums like this a spam lies about a video game that's not released and in beta seen up to level 17.  They start lies like mages can't wear plate, you can't use any weapon you want, there will be a cash shop etc etc.  it's just sad in my opinion that a person hopes anything failes especially a video game just so they can play it and cry it's not free enough. 

 


I'll try it in 2 years when it goes F2P. There is a reason sub games have all failed recently. I'm not spending money on a game and being locked into $15 a month just for the right to play it unless it gets such rave reviews that I feel it has a chance to be the best game on the market. The fact they added a cash shop in the game even if it is only for things like server changes right now speaks loudly to me. They have built it in game so they can swap to F2P as soon as they need to.

I'm fine with F2P. I'm fine with B2P. B2S (buy to sub)is just not worth it in this market unless the initial fee is really small.

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

12/10/13 10:40:47 AM#70
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by TibernicuspaAnd I think most people who claim to dislike PvP just haven't played a good PvP game (as there have been precious few).

I think most people who don't like pvp don't like it because of some of the people involved, "regardless' of whether it's a good pvp game or not. Which is entirely subjective.

There are jerks in every area of playing. Frankly though, I've seen more morons in hardcore dungeon/raid groups than in PvP. And I think it is safe to say that MMOs not designed with PvP in mind are generally bad PvP games. Most people agree in terms of good PvP games, DAoC, Eve, Darkfall, and a handful of others rule.

Originally posted by 207312

It really doesn't feel anything like a real Elder Scrolls game to be honest.

The problem was always going to be this. The only way to make a true Elderscrolls game would be to allow anyone to steal anything or kill anyone. This obviously doesn't work.

You also can't phase and instance a game to the point where it feels like a singleplayer game, because then what the hell is the point?

And if you just focus on making a great MMO in the ES setting, you get people complaining it doesn't feel like an ES game.

It is literally impossible to please everyone, but there is one clear path to making a good game. And that would have been focusing on MMO first, Elderscrolls second. They don't seem to be doing that. They're caving to pressure from casual and singleplayer gamers and time has proven that doesn't work.

  crasset15

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 181

12/10/13 10:42:43 AM#71

They are essentially watering it down and taking as many shortcuts as possible in the gameplay department, because all their resources are being used on making the themepark rides attractive. If you ignore the themepark rides, the world is just an empty shell with nothing to do in it.

I can already predict the lack of content complaints 2 months after release, because there isn't much in this game besides the themepark rides. If there was something, they would have promoed it. So expect to have a choice between forum whining, running the same dungeons over and over, and pvping in cyrodiil, because that's all they are launching with, plus the themepark content to level 50.

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/10/13 10:43:56 AM#72
Originally posted by Ender4

 


Originally posted by Kicksave321

 


Group B the f2pers/entitlement group.  These guys are ruining the mmo community in general (not all but a good % of them) there is a reason they are not allowed in game forums or game communities take a nose dive once the game goes f2p.  These guys are all pissed cause they won't get to play it free (which I'm glad it's a sub).  So what do they do come on forums like this a spam lies about a video game that's not released and in beta seen up to level 17.  They start lies like mages can't wear plate, you can't use any weapon you want, there will be a cash shop etc etc.  it's just sad in my opinion that a person hopes anything failes especially a video game just so they can play it and cry it's not free enough. 

 

 


 

I'll try it in 2 years when it goes F2P. There is a reason sub games have all failed recently. I'm not spending money on a game and being locked into $15 a month just for the right to play it unless it gets such rave reviews that I feel it has a chance to be the best game on the market. The fact they added a cash shop in the game even if it is only for things like server changes right now speaks loudly to me. They have built it in game so they can swap to F2P as soon as they need to.

I'm fine with F2P. I'm fine with B2P. B2S (buy to sub)is just not worth it in this market unless the initial fee is really small.

 

Oh come on what you were saying was fine until you threw in the "cash shop" so because wow has the same transaction available plus more is wow going f2p.  It's not a cash shop it's in game options that are available to purcahase just like Wow.  It is not a cash shop like rift, Swtor, TSW , lotro, STO and othersm.  $15/month is nothing I don't understand the attack on that, it's two meals at mcds.  If you played 5 hrs a week that is less than $1/hr of entertainment a month where can you get a better deal?  

 

You will also never get rave reviews in any game especially an mmo so good luck with that.  I hope it won't go f2p but unfortunately with all the misinformation like gear locks, cash shops etc etc those rooting and posting the misinformation will get their way and then cry it's not free enough.  

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/10/13 10:50:09 AM#73
Originally posted by crasset15

They are essentially watering it down and taking as many shortcuts as possible in the gameplay department, because all their resources are being used on making the themepark rides attractive. If you ignore the themepark rides, the world is just an empty shell with nothing to do in it.

I can already predict the lack of content complaints 2 months after release, because there isn't much in this game besides the themepark rides. If there was something, they would have promoed it. So expect to have a choice between forum whining, running the same dungeons over and over, and pvping in cyrodiil, because that's all they are launching with, plus the themepark content to level 50.

 

And you know this from getting to level 17 in the last BETA?  Or are you just giving us your uneducated opinion on a game you know nothing about and copy/pasting other taking points with no specifics just generic talking points that have ZERO facts or proof to back them up.
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17627

12/10/13 10:53:12 AM#74
Originally posted by coretex666
Originally posted by Sovrath

Is it a division between MMO players and hardcore TES fans?

yes

And those on the mmo side are concerned that it will be just another WoW clone.

I do not think it is necessarily correct.

I would say it is more about:

a) People who are glad that an MMO from ES universe will come to existence which is somewhat enough for them to look forward to the game. These people are represented by ES fans. They are used to certain quality standard and level of entertainment offered by single player ES games and they simply like the lore / universe of ES.

b) Sceptics who have been disappointed by MMOs in the past who see ESO for what it really is. A bunch of developers came up with an MMO design based around 3 faction pvp. To make it more attractive for potential customers, they decided to put their game into an ES universe even though such design does not fit in ES universe at all (does it?). I am convinced that the original idea was not to make ES MMO, but to make an MMO with this design and then they simply wrapped it in ES package which is not how you make an Elder Scrolls MMORPG which the fans of the series deserve or desire, in my opinion. It puts me personally to group b) which means that I have practically zero interest in this game which is even amplified by the fact that they have not yet announced a single feature that would seem to be innovative, fresh, or promis longevity in any way.

I would say that your statment adds a third "faction" (how about that!) to the discussion. Those on the mmo side who are thens split again.

However, at least for a while, some of the most vehement discussions were about how they were making the world and whether or not it would be more like an elder scrolls game or more like an mmo.

 

  crasset15

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 181

12/10/13 11:00:12 AM#75
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by crasset15

They are essentially watering it down and taking as many shortcuts as possible in the gameplay department, because all their resources are being used on making the themepark rides attractive. If you ignore the themepark rides, the world is just an empty shell with nothing to do in it.

I can already predict the lack of content complaints 2 months after release, because there isn't much in this game besides the themepark rides. If there was something, they would have promoed it. So expect to have a choice between forum whining, running the same dungeons over and over, and pvping in cyrodiil, because that's all they are launching with, plus the themepark content to level 50.

 

And you know this from getting to level 17 in the last BETA?  Or are you just giving us your uneducated opinion on a game you know nothing about and copy/pasting other taking points with no specifics just generic talking points that have ZERO facts or proof to back them up.

My opinion is very educated actually, I've been following every bit of news about this game. Also, it's called common sense. You don't need facts and proof to predict the overall direction and focus of this game and its developers. If you do, I feel sorry for you.

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

12/10/13 11:02:13 AM#76


Originally posted by Kicksave321

Oh come on what you were saying was fine until you threw in the "cash shop" so because wow has the same transaction available plus more is wow going f2p.  It's not a cash shop it's in game options that are available to purcahase just like Wow.  It is not a cash shop like rift, Swtor, TSW , lotro, STO and othersm.  $15/month is nothing I don't understand the attack on that, it's two meals at mcds.  If you played 5 hrs a week that is less than $1/hr of entertainment a month where can you get a better deal?  

 

You will also never get rave reviews in any game especially an mmo so good luck with that.  I hope it won't go f2p but unfortunately with all the misinformation like gear locks, cash shops etc etc those rooting and posting the misinformation will get their way and then cry it's not free enough.  


$15 a month is $15 more than the other games on the market? I don't go see every movie at the imax or even at the first run theater. I see the movies that look the best at a more expensive venue and then watch those that aren't as interesting at the budget theater. If this looks like the best game on the market you might get me to pay a sub.

A sub isn't just about $15 a month either. It is about a $15 entry fee every single time I want to log in and see what has changed in the game. On top of that I don't believe it improves the game in any way. The monthly fee used to be to pay for the bandwidth and server maintenance etc but all of that is so cheap now that it just isn't needed as proven by all the other games on the market pretty much. In theory it could pay for more content added faster but it never ends up being for that. GW2 adds content faster than WoW does as an example.

I'm dead serious about the cash shop too. There is no reason to build that into the game the way they did other than to allow them to expand on it. They will either eventually go to a B2P or F2P model or they will add things to it outside of pure cosmetics the way GW2 has. That isn't a bad thing, cash shops are going to be in every MMORPG released in the future. They aren't a F2P thing like people make them out to be, they are just part of the market.

  Reklaw

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6168

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

12/10/13 11:02:54 AM#77
Originally posted by Sovrath

Is it a division between MMO players and hardcore TES fans?

yes

And those on the mmo side are concerned that it will be just another WoW clone.

I am both a TES fan and MMORPG fan.

Looking forward to TESO.

 

 

 

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/10/13 11:28:01 AM#78
Originally posted by crasset15
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by crasset15

They are essentially watering it down and taking as many shortcuts as possible in the gameplay department, because all their resources are being used on making the themepark rides attractive. If you ignore the themepark rides, the world is just an empty shell with nothing to do in it.

I can already predict the lack of content complaints 2 months after release, because there isn't much in this game besides the themepark rides. If there was something, they would have promoed it. So expect to have a choice between forum whining, running the same dungeons over and over, and pvping in cyrodiil, because that's all they are launching with, plus the themepark content to level 50.

 

And you know this from getting to level 17 in the last BETA?  Or are you just giving us your uneducated opinion on a game you know nothing about and copy/pasting other taking points with no specifics just generic talking points that have ZERO facts or proof to back them up.

My opinion is very educated actually, I've been following every bit of news about this game. Also, it's called common sense. You don't need facts and proof to predict the overall direction and focus of this game and its developers. If you do, I feel sorry for you.

 

Exactly it's your opinion I find to bias based on the number of times you mentioned "themepark" in a negative way.  This is not the "sandbox" you wanted so now you think you are educated on a game you have no intention on liking.  So coming to forum and posting generic taking points is common sense to you, and since your educated I would think you would have endless amount of information to back up your generic talking points.  Instead you get all defensive and try to be derogatory towards me.  Yeah nice try,  we'll guess you should just move on to a new game that fits your needs better good luck.
  crasset15

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/12/12
Posts: 181

12/10/13 12:54:44 PM#79
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by crasset15
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by crasset15

They are essentially watering it down and taking as many shortcuts as possible in the gameplay department, because all their resources are being used on making the themepark rides attractive. If you ignore the themepark rides, the world is just an empty shell with nothing to do in it.

I can already predict the lack of content complaints 2 months after release, because there isn't much in this game besides the themepark rides. If there was something, they would have promoed it. So expect to have a choice between forum whining, running the same dungeons over and over, and pvping in cyrodiil, because that's all they are launching with, plus the themepark content to level 50.

 

And you know this from getting to level 17 in the last BETA?  Or are you just giving us your uneducated opinion on a game you know nothing about and copy/pasting other taking points with no specifics just generic talking points that have ZERO facts or proof to back them up.

My opinion is very educated actually, I've been following every bit of news about this game. Also, it's called common sense. You don't need facts and proof to predict the overall direction and focus of this game and its developers. If you do, I feel sorry for you.

 

Exactly it's your opinion I find to bias based on the number of times you mentioned "themepark" in a negative way.  This is not the "sandbox" you wanted so now you think you are educated on a game you have no intention on liking.  So coming to forum and posting generic taking points is common sense to you, and since your educated I would think you would have endless amount of information to back up your generic talking points.  Instead you get all defensive and try to be derogatory towards me.  Yeah nice try,  we'll guess you should just move on to a new game that fits your needs better good luck.

Actually I have nothing against themepark content. It becomes a problem when developers completely ignore all other aspects of the game and put all their focus on this one thing. You seem to be far more defensive than I am, and your claims of me 'knowing nothing about the game' are even more extreme than any assumptions I made. But as you said, this is just an opinion, and maybe you can accept the fact that someone has a different opinion than you, or that someone sees your beloved game in a negative light.

  Nanfoodle

Elite Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 3712

12/10/13 1:03:17 PM#80
Originally posted by GPrestige

I've only now started looking into the game, and have noticed something interesting on different forums and even Youtube videos. It seems that there is quite a divide between those who like how the game looks and those who don't. I'm wondering if anyone has a reason why?

Is it a division between MMO players and hardcore TES fans? Does the game have some feature people don't like that I'm not aware of? So far, it looks quite interesting. I can understand the issue some people have with graphics, since TES tends to have realistic graphics for the time it's released - but for an MMO, it's generally understood graphics need to be scaled back due to the gargantuan size of the world and amount of people playing.

 

Anyone have any idea?

Simple its direction. This used to be to for a long time the #1 MMO in development here on mmorpg.com. As they laid out the plans for the game the more people stopped following it or caring. For the most part they dont seem to know what type of MMO they want to make. One min its a DAoC model that has a TES feel and the next its something else. Its a MMO, next its not really a MMO and it is a MMO again but with a lot of focus on solo play. So much flip flopping that its hard to be a fan of the game. Then the real kicker, box price + sub + micro-transaction with no word on how the plan to make that a fair model. 

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