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General Discussion  » Of how i lost my WoW guild to Bob. (rant/vent)

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125 posts found
  Bladestrom

Elite Member

Joined: 4/04/11
Posts: 3354

12/08/13 4:00:30 PM#61
To OP the problem is that there were players with hardcore exp, and unfortunately previous leaders equate strong leadership to rather outmoded practices, shouting, bullying etc, authoritarian etc. unfortunately because of the competitive nature of wow (meters & demand for constant practice) this style is probably required. As poster above said you should have stood your ground but suggested they leave with your blessing, then redo you guild mission statement to reflect the true style you are aiming for. Unfortunate turn of events, but it is a game, new guilds can be formed ;)

rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW (1000 hrs on main mage)> oblivion > LOTR (480 Hunter) > Rift (230 hours mage) > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(900 elementalist), Wildstar

Now playing GW2, AOW 3

  MmoFluff

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/13
Posts: 12

 
OP  12/08/13 4:38:02 PM#62

Just to clarify something, i am not really blaming "Bob" for this situation and i do not think i have put him on a bad light neither in my original post nor in my replies to everyone´s comments.

Bob is a nice (if a bit prideful) guy and despite the situation he behaved in a noble and polite way about it.

And while we all knew that if i refused the guild would be broken, he did not see fit to use it as a moral weapon to convince me.

The ones who were rough and pushy about it were his "followers", many of which i had assisted countless times, which is why i felt  hurt by the whole situation, as i believe that even if they followed this path, i deserved more respect than what i got.

  Arthasm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/26/09
Posts: 677

12/08/13 5:06:11 PM#63

Fast-forwarding... Bob got best gear, screwing around his followers, sold guild for 200k gold and join better raiding guild. 

It was your guild, no matter if people would leave if you didn't give leadership, there are plenty others who would join. You should learn (since you playing from vanilla) that people in WoW year by year are nothing more than the worst scum existing in video games.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3303

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

12/08/13 5:09:45 PM#64

It happens every time a 'leveling guild' reaches 'critical mass'.
And there is always 2 outcomes:

1. Accept that your players need to progress to raiding, and change the guild accordingly. (and the eventual uprising of bob)

2.Retain your vision and watch your guild hemorrhage players until its just not the same.

In summary, All good things must come to an end.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4660

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/08/13 5:39:55 PM#65

this story is a bit like the plot of Spartacus...everyone is chaotic-neutral, everyone's doing what he thinks is right and none of them is truly 'evil'...yet when their interests clash, horrible things happen.

 

it's a slow-motion train wreck that is not very avoidable. weak leadership will be challenged. sometimes North Korea happens where power is used to preserve power, other times a revolution happens (USSR) and other times it goes peacefully (British monarchy).

 

when a leadership is challenged, it HAS TO fight back or kneel. there's no way around this. Unless you and Bob can go in a 1 on 1 chat and decide a common future for the guild.

 

  VaultFairy

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/21/09
Posts: 540

12/08/13 8:41:00 PM#66
Pressured to give up being leader? Should of just stuck to it and if they left then maybe they could of found a guild more suited to their needs.
  MMOman101

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/05/08
Posts: 1212

12/08/13 9:53:21 PM#67

I am an old vanilla WoW player and after so much time playing the game i was feeling a bit bored and wanted to do something different to the usual progressing, so i decided to tackle a facet i had never considered before: Guild Leading.

I decided to make a guild where all the new/returning players could join to learn the ropes,  because i thought it would be fun to help and assist dozens of new players as they followed the path i followed so many years before.

This was the reason you started your guild.  When Bob made the guild about raiding (progression), the game changed its mission.  Once that happened your vision of the guild was lost. 

All groups needs strong mission statements and leaders who are willing to keep the group focused on those missions statements.  If you decide to start a new guild, with the above mission do your self a favor.

1) write a strong mission statement.

2) hold people to it, including yourself.

3) if people don't like it let them know they joined the guild with mission x and if mission x does not fit their needs they are free to move on.

 

My guess though is at some point people want to make the game about end game progression.  You can make a transient low character guild where people level together and then drop when they start to raid.  I ran one of those in WoW years ago.  I had my raiding guild and then I had all of my alts in an alt guild.  The guild was for people to level alts so they could easily find groups.  This was Before BC and I stopped playing WoW soon after BC came out. 

 

It is all about mission statement.  Keeping that the focus of the guild.  Allowing people to walk when they don't confirm.  Finding people who will believe in that mission. 

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4660

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/08/13 11:54:10 PM#68

in his last paragraph, MMOman means "Conform" not "confirm".

 

but I agree with his overall thought.

 

if you build a static guild AKA a leveling guild then you must keep the turnover in mind. its a static guild concerning a dynamic activity.

 

if you buil a dynamic guild, that grows and evolves, sooner or later it will end up in endgame.

 

in EVE, there's EVE University. you join as a newbie, learn, graduate, then you're on your own, out of E-UNI and onto 'endgame stuff'. whatever that is for you. these type of guilds are necesary in difficult games, pointless in WoW. due to speed and ease of leveling.

  Rattenmann

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/05
Posts: 328

12/09/13 12:12:58 AM#69
Never ever allow democracy in a guild. It never ends well. (not even sure if it can end well in RL lol, but definitly not in a gaming guild.)

MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  Ridrith

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 305

12/09/13 12:26:10 AM#70
Originally posted by Zaradoom
Never ever allow democracy in a guild. It never ends well. (not even sure if it can end well in RL lol, but definitly not in a gaming guild.)

Honestly?  ^This.  I was a raid/guild leader for over four years and what Zaradoom is saying is exactly right.  Now granted I know that our situations are different because what happen to you would eventually happen to almost any guild leader who more or less started a guild for leveling/casual play.  Raids will come into the picture at some point and people will need the proper direction.  My guild started out as a raid guild and I'll be the first to admit that I was a immovable object.  I had a small group of officers that I spoke with, both of which I knew in RL.  I listened to their opinions and we'd have frequent discussions on group comp, player performance, etc.  However when it came to the rabble, to new people who'd enter the guild and raid and attempt to blow through ranks in the hopes of having a word within in the guild -  A digital audience if you will to exert their power they were shot down fairly frequently.  I wasn't there to be an ass.  We were there to play the game the way we wanted to play it.  It was all in our mission statement.  Players knew what we wanted and what we expected of them and we knew (generally) what they expected from us.  

 

We also had a number of rules that we enforced.

No couples.

No female players.

Weekly Guild Meetings - In ventrilo.

Taking a break every week from raiding and playing other games with each other.

----------

It all worked out in the end and when I eventually left the guild back before Cata came out I handed the reigns over to my friend.

  Tatercake

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/07
Posts: 255

LET GO OF MY NUTS

12/09/13 12:47:02 AM#71
well just quit the guild make a new one start over and learn for our mistakes  i  bee there created guild i  ha a gild er 100 active players on wow then suddenly merging  3 gilds into one guild  i ended up turning over leadership  and left it  I remember jumping into vent channel and saying hi  to old players and new players who are you who you think you are i would say i started this guild made it what it is  who are you and new players be like no you didnt  current guild leader  did i  just chuckle the oldtimmers tell them shut up stop talking and tell me they were sorry for the rude  people and i  say my goodbyes and take off to play with my friends i made  other guilds  and at times do not dsire to spend all the time doing that  make guild  o what ou enjoyed be a gateway to teach them how to lv and when they wish to raid send them to your old  guild which seems  to be full of raiding
  Teh_Axi

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/08
Posts: 405

12/09/13 5:26:55 AM#72
Originally posted by Robokapp

it's a slow-motion train wreck that is not very avoidable. weak leadership will be challenged. sometimes North Korea happens where power is used to preserve power, other times a revolution happens (USSR) and other times it goes peacefully (British monarchy).

Errr I get what you're saying but FYI the last real King of England had his head cut off.

  Renoaku

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/07
Posts: 959

12/09/13 5:39:09 AM#73

1. Never Transfer Leadership of a guild to someone or give rights to people you don't trust.

2. If you have to grant rights because you need to trust officers make sure its not something that can hurt a guild aka they rob your bank you knew they couldn't be trusted.

. Sometimes you have to test your officers without them knowing and see if they are worthy and loyal to not do things like rob a guild bank.

3. There are many bad guilds out there, I have had some great community based guilds in some games mostly the smaller guilds I have never really had any disputes with them and anything was so small we worked it out well over a year ago no issues since.

4. If you transfer rights expect that the new leader might just kick you from the guild themselves once they are promoted to leader.

Just start a new guild to be honest if 70% of your clan voted someone else in then they were not loyal anyways you need dedicated members to run a successful guild, and leaders that enforce rules to the point where players are respectful and not doing things like other big guilds I have been in have done.

I  join one of these big so called 2000+ Member guilds that claim to have good leadership, want a good name, and are respectful, but it turns out that most big guilds always have Drama, Cheaters, Exploiters because I caught multiple members in my guild doing this in a month and bragging in chat about it when i finally said I had enough of it instead of the officers or leaders dealing with the people they just banned my account didn't deal with all the cheaters even those who broke the rules by exploiting dungeon bosses in Guild Wars, and other various exploits in other games. When I see a exploiter I personally report it so that the developers fix it so they can no longer use it.

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/09/13 5:42:31 AM#74
Originally posted by Teh_Axi
Originally posted by Robokapp

it's a slow-motion train wreck that is not very avoidable. weak leadership will be challenged. sometimes North Korea happens where power is used to preserve power, other times a revolution happens (USSR) and other times it goes peacefully (British monarchy).

Errr I get what you're saying but FYI the last real King of England had his head cut off.

Indeed: He tried to arrest members parliament which ultimately led to civil war- monarchists against parlamentarians.  Hardly peaceful.

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

12/09/13 5:43:00 AM#75
Originally posted by MmoFluff

This is mostly a "vent" thread as this has just happened to me and i am not sure on how to take it on, and i wonder if anyone had a similar experience at some point in their MMO careers.

I am an old vanilla WoW player and after so much time playing the game i was feeling a bit bored and wanted to do something different to the usual progressing, so i decided to tackle a facet i had never considered before: Guild Leading.

I decided to make a guild where all the new/returning players could join to learn the ropes,  because i thought it would be fun to help and assist dozens of new players as they followed the path i followed so many years before.

Things went well and a few months into it the guild had grown solid and many players had become friends and wanted to transform the guild into something more, into a raiding guild, to which i agreed, and despite my lack of experience in the leading role, i did my best and we even got a few nice completions and kills.

It was then when this guy, let´s call him "Bob", joined my guild.

Bob was extremely experienced (raidwise), very helpful and had one of those magnetic personalities everyone (me included) seems to love, and a few weeks later and many successful boss kills (with his help) forward everyone wanted for him to become an officer, to which i agreed.

But then things turned sour for me.

Despite the fact i had been helping, supporting and providing for them for over half a year,  suddenly everything in the guild was about Bob and it felt like every single decision or activity that mattered was lead and organized by bob.

Since it mostly was good for the guild, i decided not to make a big fuss about it and i simply made myself as helpful as i could be ( as i always had done) but the more i did the less it was appreciated and Bob got the merit for everything.

Fast forward a  couple months, and about 70% of the guild "voted" him as the new Guild Master and pretty much pressured me into giving the mantle of leadership to him, and did so til i gave in and made him the leader.

One month later i lost my regular raid position as there were already two guildies with my class/spec that were way better geared than myself and i now find myself sitting in a forgotten corner of the guild i made to help this people, as they fly off to success with Bob, and will probably end up leaving it as there is no longer a place in it for me.

And here i sit, thinking i have lost over half a year of gaming helping a bunch of ingrates.

I think your problem is one that i see many many more times in MMOs..

 

People starting a guild consider it as their guild, and this single mindset mostly prevents a guild from flourishing..

 

People want to be part of a guild, and they prefer the guild as a place from all of them, we are all democraticly raised people and want our voices to be heared in a guild.  You cant run a guild as being the boss over the long haul, unless you can give the people what they want, more power, better gear and a succesfull raid structure.

 

So you dropped from being a guildleader to being an officer... it was a demcratic thing, and there for a good thing..

 

 

How ever any guild that sets aside loyal members  for other people with better gear is not the place i would like to be in.  If i have any vote in a guild, i would make sure that it would be a guild effort to get everyone in guild the gear they need to have acces to the progressing raid features..

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

12/09/13 6:15:42 AM#76

You should not have given up your guild leadership even under pressure, you created it, it was yours.

However you also need to learn how to harness other people and their magnetism. Think of Bob like a Pitbull, you as guild leader were right to pomote him to officer which in some guilds takes years to achieve but you should have also kept him on a leash.  If it came to a crunch you should have said its my guild I set it up, if you do not like this then you are welcome to leave but I would love it if you stayed and helped carry on build.

If they left you would have carried on as you were happy and in peace and probably with alot less stress. I have seen it many times. People go funny when purples/epics are involved, their personality completely changes and its an awe to watch.

I had a good gaming friend once, we talked about real life stuff and issues we were facing and we levelled together pug'd raids a bit together etc. Until one day he joined a HC raiding guild as a casual within a week he went from being a reasonable guy to a complete a$$hat. The crunch came when we were supposed to play together in a raid and he turned on me and said you can't have a spot unless you have my role, which you don't.  I cut him off dead then and a month or two later he left that guild and since every 3-6 months tries to make contact with me but I give him the closed door he deserves without spite and get on with my gaming.

  Sawlstone

Novice Member

Joined: 10/22/09
Posts: 308

12/09/13 6:23:55 AM#77

OP, I just quit a guild like that a few months ago. It was great as a casual guild. Sure we wanted to raid but nothing too hardcore. Next thing you know a guy joins up. Starts getting really active. Moves into an officer position swiftly.  This guy is always on so now he is running things constantly since noone else wants to. Its a good situation, but this give him power. Now he is giving disipline to players. Soon he is co-GM. Now we are fucked. He turns into the alpha GM then makes us hardcore. I quit.

Point is I would have stayed in a guild like yours. Don't get discouraged.

  User Deleted
12/09/13 6:44:21 AM#78
What it comes down to is that deep down you still wanted leadership regardless of Bob's aggressive gang's wishes.
So 30% of the members still wanted what you first envisioned for the guild.
70% wanted to do more. It happens. I've been there.
But nowadays I'm more part of the 30% and would really love it if the guild stays true to its vision.
30% were letdown.
It's a learning experience.
  NetSage

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/10
Posts: 1010

12/09/13 8:15:59 AM#79
Originally posted by Vutar
Never give up guild leadership, period. Especially when you are only doing so "for the good of the guild." People in MMOs do not care. They will screw you over. Those who wanted Bob as leader should have left and made a guild with him.

Unless you're leaving the game ;).  Otherwise you just come back to a dead guild anyway.

  Fuggly

Novice Member

Joined: 1/05/12
Posts: 154

12/09/13 8:26:30 AM#80
Any guild / clan I lead, and over 14 years or so of gaming i have led more then i could count, they all have two basic rules. #1 Help new players, help the guild / clan, #2 Do not ever bash your clan mates, that's what enemies are for, #3 Do not ever piss me off. I would have removed Bob from the clan without even blinking. One thing I have learned as a clan leader is your members are like a revolving door, always coming, always going. My method of leading is top down, things are run my way or the highway. I try to keep everyone happy, be fair, be just, it does not always work that way but you do the best you can. You do what you need to do to maintain the original ideals and integrity of your creation, you can guide it as it evolves and evolve with it, clamp down and keep it the way you want, or get out of the way.

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