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General Discussion  » Of how i lost my WoW guild to Bob. (rant/vent)

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125 posts found
  NobleNerd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 460

Try not!Do or do notThere is no try.

12/08/13 8:15:40 AM#41

Everything I have read in this post reveals one common theme about the situation....

 

As much of a nice guy you were and wanted to be liked by your guild mates you became overshadowed by a more talented person who was what most people were looking for to lead them in ONE ASPECT of a guild. You never created the guild to be a "raiding only" guild. When a portion of your guild desired to go deeper into raiding you should have recognized the shift and as the guild leader made appropriate adjustments. It sounds like to me (and one who has been a guild leader) you reacted too slow to the changes, the members took action and you gave in to demands.

 

What you should have done here is created a raid leader position for "Bob" and focused on what made you a successful guild leader in the first place.... you created the guild and recruited the members in the beginning, so you had some strengths as a leader. A leader is not one who is good at everything, but one who knows how to delegate talent.

 

I do not know your total situation, but I would venture to guess, because of the popularity of "Bob" with a large portion of the guild, you lost confidence, you gave into pressure when you should have stood your ground and either created a leadership role for what "Bob" was good at or gave them the option to start a new guild, but never step down as guild leader because someone excels at ONE thing better than you! 

  User Deleted
12/08/13 8:23:07 AM#42
Originally posted by muffins89

what the guy above stated.  should have stayed leader and let bob and others leave if they wanted.  you would have found out who your real friends were and who was just there to leech off you.

 

edit:  sorry this happened to you by the way.  guild politics suck. 

 

+1

Sorry you had to learn the hard way mate, but if the guild was going in a direction you didn't like, then you should have told them that they were free to make a new guild with Bob as the guild leader if they had a problem with how things were run.

  MmoFluff

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/13
Posts: 12

 
OP  12/08/13 8:23:09 AM#43

I wanted to thank everyone for your input.

I agree with pretty much everyone in that i should have handled things differently and perhaps a bit more strongly.

I guess it has been a good learning experience.

  olepi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 1001

12/08/13 8:23:12 AM#44

Sounds like you were too successful :) From just wanting to help newbies and returning players, your guild turned into a serious and focused raid guild. Why would you want to get into a political competition with those types of people? That wasn't what you wanted in the first place. Why fight to hold on to something you don't really want?

Hindsight is 20/20, but maybe the best move would have been to split the guild, let "Bob" and the raiders form their own, sister guild. But now my advice would be to quit the guild; say that you are going back to what you like, which is to start a guild to help newbies and returning players.

------------
RIP City of Heroes. One of my favorite MMO's.

  Silverthorn8

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/08
Posts: 482

12/08/13 8:36:38 AM#45

It sucks when these things happen, I remember being booted off my own pvp team by an ex Grand Marshal someone invite in, the prick decided to take over and farm players mid field rather than go for the flag in wsg. This led to a major argument resulting in me getting kicked.

This essentially killed my chance of going for rank 13 (field marshal) back in vanilla.

In all walks of life you find these "Lord Flasheart's" that certain folks gravitate towards. Just remember this phrase 'every fool has even more foolish admirers'.    ;)

  LittleBoot

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/13
Posts: 336

12/08/13 8:41:20 AM#46
Originally posted by MmoFluff

I wanted to thank everyone for your input.

I agree with pretty much everyone in that i should have handled things differently and perhaps a bit more strongly.

I guess it has been a good learning experience.

If I were you I would /gquit- you obviously are not happy there and set up a new casual guild.  Make it clear what the guild is about and play to your strengths.  

  nationalcity

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/31/04
Posts: 332

12/08/13 8:46:44 AM#47

You basically should of never passed leader, whoever didn't like it would leave along with Bob and you could recruit again........

And just like other persons above I would leave that guild, I would never stay in a guild where I was the leader at one time then was pushed out so much that I couldn't even raid with them when I basically created the damn thing, I don't think so........

  User Deleted
12/08/13 8:46:46 AM#48


@OP nice post and thanks for sharing. The stories like this and life lessons learned are what draw me to mmorpg's.

 

People all around the world are begging for solid leadership in the name of self progression. Being the "nice guy" doesn't cut in when leading. In your case here, you didn't really have a plan as to where you wanted to take the guild. You were just going with the flow and "Bob" came in and took over. "Bob" isn't a bad guy, he is actually perfect for a right hand man. Perhaps if you do this again, you formulate a plan. Org charts or chain of command would have come in v**ery handy for you.

For example:

 Level 1 GM = You

Level 2 Raid Officer = Bob, PVP Officer = John Doe, PVE Officer = Jane Doe, ...... and however you want to structure it.

Level 3 are direct reports to each officer

Level 4 are those that have proven themselves

Level 5 are those working their way up

Level 6 are new players

**** You could structure this however you wanted to, lets say Bob leaves though, and he takes 10 players with him, you still have your pvp and pve structure, also if your leading in a way that people want to be around you, Bob may take 10 players but they will be back. What incentives do your officers have? Find players that you can reward and when a "Bob" comes in, you will be well equipped to take advantage of his strengths and not feel threatened by his presence. Your people will see success as a function of you and your team, rather than one player that you happened to recruit.

 

In the corporate world, many have been bitten like you have. Managers and supervisors feel threatened by good working employees, so often times you see a "slacker" get promoted. It's unfortunate because you expect hard work to pay off, but...

As a leader..Slacker poses no threat to you, removing a slacker from a production oriented line means no loss of productivity, and if you have to fire someone, you have a scapegoat in a promoted position ie "low hanging fruit"  he is easy pickins.

  Hulluck

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/19/13
Posts: 447

12/08/13 9:01:33 AM#49
Originally posted by NobleNerd

Everything I have read in this post reveals one common theme about the situation....

 

As much of a nice guy you were and wanted to be liked by your guild mates you became overshadowed by a more talented person who was what most people were looking for to lead them in ONE ASPECT of a guild. You never created the guild to be a "raiding only" guild. When a portion of your guild desired to go deeper into raiding you should have recognized the shift and as the guild leader made appropriate adjustments. It sounds like to me (and one who has been a guild leader) you reacted too slow to the changes, the members took action and you gave in to demands.

 

What you should have done here is created a raid leader position for "Bob" and focused on what made you a successful guild leader in the first place.... you created the guild and recruited the members in the beginning, so you had some strengths as a leader. A leader is not one who is good at everything, but one who knows how to delegate talent.

 

I do not know your total situation, but I would venture to guess, because of the popularity of "Bob" with a large portion of the guild, you lost confidence, you gave into pressure when you should have stood your ground and either created a leadership role for what "Bob" was good at or gave them the option to start a new guild, but never step down as guild leader because someone excels at ONE thing better than you! 

Most articulate post in the thread in my opinion.  While others said the same thing,basically, this post is pure awesome.

 

 My opinion. Chances are without the backbone (you op),Bob will have destroyed what you built in no time.  That is unless someone steps up and fills the role that was yours. If Bob was so great he would not have been looking for a guild to begin with. Guessing paragraph 3 most likely rings true combined with waiting so long (just a hunch) to act. Things just snowballed out of control.  *just guessing*

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10635

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/08/13 9:38:04 AM#50

Doesn't do any good now, but it seems like a good move would have been to have a new guild started for the raiding, where members of the learning guild get preferential membership.

Guilds are one trick ponies. They focus on one thing, and while it's possible to have other activities, that one thing is going to dominate the guild. Anyone who isn't part of that one thing is going to end up on the fring. For instance someone who wants to PvP a lot in a raid focused guild :-(.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19078

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

12/08/13 11:15:45 AM#51

Totally reminds me why I stopped raiding so many years ago, or playing MMOs that are designed around it as primary end game.

Now I play with a group of friends that it doesn't even matter who officially leads the guild, other than to control the guild vault access, and we don't have anyone trying to grab power.

But in the past I've been in more than my share of guild drama, leadership being a key one.

 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17208

12/08/13 11:26:01 AM#52
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet

You should have stayed guild leader. Sure, you might have lost a large chunk of your members along with Bob, but the 30% or so who remained would be the ones who appreciated your efforts. Even if everybody left, you could've still started fresh.

Running a guild like a democracy doesn't usually end well.

i like this answer.

Essential OP, you should have said "The guild is mine and everything that I've done was to help the guild. However, I recognize that a portion of the guild has grown in a different direction, which is natural, and I encourage those people to strike out and make their own guild. One that will move in a direction that they can benefit from".

Because op, you weren't the guild leader, you were the facilitator. I hate to say that but "leadership" is not about putting things together and making things happen. True those are attributes of a leader but a leader oftentimes uses those around him who are good at getting things done to help further his agenda.

Had you been "the leader" you would have kept your leadership so that you could have continued to lead those in your guild who were still of like mind and you would have graciously allowed those who wanted a different direction/different leader to make their own way.

The flip side is that you recognized that you weren't the leader anymore and you allowed someone else to become the leader. The only reason why you would do this is if you recognized you weren't the leader anymore and were content at being one of the flock.

Being a leader is hard. If you are going to be a leader then "lead".

 

  mistmaker

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/11/12
Posts: 229

12/08/13 11:38:59 AM#53

you created a casual guild which transferred to a raid guild. 

 

bob got dedication and motivation, you not. people always follow the person who brings them further (better gear through raids) and this wasnt you, it was bob.

guess you did nothing else but created the guild and evolved through democratic decisions. but people need a leader, not a nice online person.

you should have made a guild web site, a guild forum, raid planer, event planer, structure&orgainsation. as long as you were the one who brings in that structure, you will keep your position.

 

you brought in nothing anymore and were replaceable. 

 

follow those rules and it will work next time. people need a leader who is highly active and motivated.

 

or crete a role playing guild for casual players.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3563

12/08/13 12:58:34 PM#54
Originally posted by Hatefull

 

Did you read the post? No, that is not the theme of his complaint at all. Posting before you know what you are talking about really makes you sound stupid. Good job.

Did you?

 

But then things turned sour for me.

Despite the fact i had been helping, supporting and providing for them for over half a year,  suddenly everything in the guild was about Bob and it felt like every single decision or activity that mattered was lead and organized by bob.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Fangrim

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/07/12
Posts: 474

12/08/13 1:12:13 PM#55
Unfortunately raid guilds attract the most selfish nasty arrogant type of players to them,I'm not saying all people that raid are like this but that is where most of these types go to.
  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 621

12/08/13 1:25:36 PM#56
Originally posted by sacredfool

I am sorry but you seem to blame your best officer and 70% of your guild and there's no sign of constructive " Could it be also my fault? " . Be it your personality, your activity or your efforts, guilds don't just turn against people.

If Bob is as great as you say, what you can do is message him and explain how you feel and ask him to give you an officer role.

 

I'd however like to cheer you up, you were not the only one having such problems in MMOs. Listen to the above song about EVE online.

 

 

Oh yes they do. Humans turn on other Humans constantly and consistently. This just shows it is YOU that is naive and doesn't understand Human Nature.

This kind of backstabbing isn't just a MMO problem you know, it is a MMO problem because it is a Human problem, we have been that way for thousands of years.


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 750

Your tears make my gun work better.

12/08/13 1:35:34 PM#57


Originally posted by PWN_FACE
There is a lot of good advice in here.

 

Just /gquit and start another one. Sounds like you know what to do now. 


TL:DR/bottom line and best advise in this whole thread.

+1 to you.

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17208

12/08/13 2:00:23 PM#58
Originally posted by MmoFluff

I wanted to thank everyone for your input.

I agree with pretty much everyone in that i should have handled things differently and perhaps a bit more strongly.

I guess it has been a good learning experience.

Being a guild leader is really difficult.

I ended up being a guild leader in Lineage 2 after our original leader took a break. I think I did a decent job but always worried about "everything" all the time. If a good member left because they wanted a different experience (and on good terms) I worried about his relationship with our guild should we end up on the wrong side of a clan war. I worried about giving out mats equally to everyone and not favoring anyone. I worried about everyone having a good time and worried about keeping the peace between different personalities.

Not everyone can be a guild leader. So "yes" it's a great experience.

I know if I ended up "seriously" leading another guild I would want to do things differently. But what other challenges would those different paths reveal?

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4651

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/08/13 2:10:25 PM#59

One quick overall comment on this topic as a whole, since OP brings out an amazing 'real' event about casual vs hardcore:

 

look at the replies. some are on your side, some on bob's side, some don't care. Casuals don't understan hardcores but the opposite is also true.

 

what does this story look like from Bob's viewpoint? I imagine is a little like this:

 

-these guys have the numbers, somewhat the gear and ability but aren't...doing much with it.

-nobody is stepping up, I guess I will.

-I could do this much faster and better if I had moe power.

-Now I have the power, time to go full speed.

 

From what you're telling us, I don't think Bob had any bad intentions, he just has a different opinion on what the guild needs.

 

Bob however lacks manners as the former raid leader always has an honorary raid spot. Our 'former' raid leader who stoppd raiding in 2007 if he was on always received an invite to raid, all the way into 2012. That part Bob was a jerk about. I don't agree with that.

 

if you watch the news, see Russia. I don't know who's president, but in reality Putin is the leader of that place. The guy's the puppet master of just about everything regardless of his official title. Bob's the Putin of WoW. :D

 

p.s. from experience I can tell you by the time the 70% voted, it was too late for your leadership. You did the right thing, as the guild would've seen a migration if you hadn't. It's a very terrible situation but there's no other way.

  Bruise187

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/06
Posts: 357

AC2..Greatest game ever to be closed. They did it dirty.

12/08/13 2:11:11 PM#60
Easy fix. you should have kicked him when you started feeling threatened. Your guild , your rules, dont likem , leavem.

How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?

I'm not your friend.

I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.

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