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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Guild Wars 2: The World's Most-Updated MMO

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154 posts found
  Leviathonlx

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/09
Posts: 139

12/05/13 3:34:23 PM#81

You have to have a pretty broad definition of updates to consider all the 'updates' GW2 gets actual updates. When you look at the past year of what we got there's not much actual content there that can be played. Putting out different colored armors and achievements every 2 weeks aren't exactly the same as adding new dungeons or zones with Southsun being the only added zone (and considering we've got nothing since I'm willing to bet Southsun was mostly done before release). 

Even the living story is a story that makes no sense with godawful voiceacting and no continuation whatsoever from the stories that released with the game. 

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

12/05/13 4:28:11 PM#82
  • First, GW2 didn't see a sharp decline in player interest, which then led to Living Story. The game was going incredibly strong UNTIL Living Story, after which the numbers started to plummet.                                                                                                                                      
    • Second, "careful what we wish for"? Sorry, but I don't know anyone that wished for Living Story and it's slew of fluff, adventure by checklist, temporary content. What many of us wished for was for the game to build on it's incredible core strengths, by continually adding to and evolving Dynamic Event content across the game world!                                                              
  • The game hasn't floundered because they gave us what we thought we wanted. It is floundering because Arenanet 2013 apparently has no clue what made the core game such a success and decided to go off on the failed tangent which was Living Story. No one asked for that massive waste of development resources. No one!
    • It's become clear that Arenanet lost a lot of key people after launch, likely due to poor compensation following the production of one of the best at-launch MMOs the genre has ever seen. They also apparently retained some vets not via deserved raises, but by promoting to management positions they just are not suited for. Arenanet 2013 is not pre-release Arenanet, not by a mile.                                                                   
  • Design wise, it all comes back to Dynamic Events and Arenanet's abandonment of the game world. During development, one developer in an interview boasted how efficient their Dynamic Event creation tools were and how they would leverage that efficiency into an aggressive update schedule after launch. Well, apparently, that developer must be one of the ones the studio lost, because after launch suddenly Dynamic Events went from "Easy to produce" to, "Oh, those are too hard". Colin's tease that we could see the number of DEs double or triple in the first year evaporated and even many broken DEs across the game world went unfixed for ages.
    • Apparently, lack of ability to produce Dynamic Event content, likely related to a loss of key talent, led to a new strategy. Living Story.
  • Pretty early on in Living Story, I called them out as fluff, smoke and mirrors updates, meant to try to provide an illusion of substance out of what was not really much content at all. I think that early judgement has been vindicated. Living Story was just one big magic act meant to make a lot of nothing seem like a lot of something. Unfortunately, it was never a very convincing trick and the result is that Arenanet, via the Living Story fiasco, has squandered away much of the game's massive potential.
    • 2013 Arenanet has basically just been spinning it's wheels with content creation busy work that has done nothing to build on the incredible potential this game possessed at launch. In fact, the nature of this "content" has been so counter to the core game that it has turned off many fans who loved the game at launch and couldn't wait to see where it would go next.
  • I find it unbelievable that the author would try to shift any of the blame onto the fans for "asking for something that didn't actually make us happy". Living Story is all Arenanet 2013. The fans didn't want it. It was a complete reversal on many of the core design concepts that made the game great. It has clearly driven more and more players from the game with every update. Yet, they stuck to it in a downward spiral of self delusion, self denial and self destruction.
    • But, hey, it's the most updated MMO in the world, that must mean something, right? Right?
 
Sorry for the bullet points and indents, trying to make it readable, as the line breaks seem to be being stripped by the editior.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

12/05/13 4:33:39 PM#83

Sorry for the bullet points and indents above, the comments editor just doesn't want to preserve line breaks.

 

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

12/05/13 4:40:35 PM#84

BTW, I agree with most of what the author has written. Pretty spot on. the biggest issue I have is the idea that Arenanet was just giving us what we asked for.

The ;tldr for my previous long post can be summed up as "No one asked for this Living Story BS, it's been a massive waste of development, has undermined all that makes the game great and has driven more players from the game than it has retained".

Oh and it's also obvious that something is just plain wrong with the studio, with my guess being that too many key people left and those now filling key management positions have no clue what made the game great, or why the last year has greatly undermined the accomplishments of greater minds no longer on the project.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6583

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

12/05/13 4:40:56 PM#85

Does this really set Arena apart from anyone else or just more of their in your face marketing PR strategy to make sure everyone notices them?

All they do is deliver a new instance ,that is not worthy content in my book,that is do it ,finish it and be done with it forever.

Most all other games create dungeons or instances,they just don't make a point of it to let the entire media infrastructure know about it.That is what i don't like about Arena Net they think doing the same old as anyone else is more important when THEY do it.

Make no mistake,i am not saying what GW2 is doing by making a new instance every so often is a bad thing,it is a GOOD thing "of course".It is just that we really shouldn't hear about it,when you have to FORCE your game's  content onto the media,you know you are really stretching your game's worth.Everyone else just does the content,inputs it into the database and moves on to the next,no need to brag about doing what you EXPECT a developer to do.

There is the other thing,Arena Net acts like they are treating players to something special,umm NO,when you release what looks like  a half ass game ,then what you add afterwards is nothing to brag about,it SHOULD have been there on RELEASE not after.

Arena net needs to learn to just make the game,advertise THE GAME and let people decide,don't tell us how great your content is,WE the players will decide that. ANet has ALWAYS been doing this,"We have the best art team" "our offices are the best to work in","we are removing the trinity because we do it for you and make YOUR game better" "We don't have mounts because that ruins the game we are again doing it to make the game better for YOU" on and on and on,they never stop.

Hint...You the developer don't tell us how great your game or team is,WE decide that.I know this is a mmorpg post but Arena Net has been doing this exact tooting of their own horn as well and from day 1.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Nephelai

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/13
Posts: 159

12/05/13 4:41:55 PM#86

GW2 has gone the way of all fringe dweller MMO's such as Rift etc. At the start, a lot of people try them because they are looking for something new. When they get to end game they realise there isn't any significant difference and leave. That leaves a small player base at end game hanging around in the capital city and no people coming thru the pipeline. When you venture out of the capital city or start a new character the open world is barren.

 

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

12/05/13 4:45:03 PM#87
Originally posted by Avarix
Anyone else think these updates were all ready and sitting there when the game was initially released? It took them how long to do something about culling, a major problem? Makes it seem like the updates are all automated. It continues to feel like they are releasing content that they made a long time ago, instead of listening to player feedback and suggestions and going from there.
 

Absolutely not. The team that produced the incredible core game could never have produced this garbage. This is all on Arenanet 2013, which maintains little resemblance to pre-launch Arenanet. At this point, a major shake up at Arenanet may be the only thing that can save the game's once massive potential, but any new leadership would have to be the right leadership and have an accurate understanding of how things have gone so wrong and know exactly how to fix it.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

12/05/13 4:47:01 PM#88
2013 Arenanet has indeed become more about Hype than actual viable content. Unfortunately, it just makes it all the more obvious that the Emperor Has No Clothes!

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  Velocinox

Elite Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 637

12/05/13 4:48:46 PM#89

Best MMO on the market at the moment.

 

The lack of users is just commentary on the lack of critical thinking and fickle nature of today's MMO gamer.

 

No MMO will ever succeed like EQ and WoW, again. The audience just get bored and moves on by rote.

'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than the one you've become familiar with.


How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  SnarlingWolf

Novice Member

Joined: 6/23/09
Posts: 2728

12/05/13 4:54:05 PM#90
Originally posted by Velocinox

Best MMO on the market at the moment.

 

The lack of users is just commentary on the lack of critical thinking and fickle nature of today's MMO gamer.

 

No MMO will ever succeed like EQ and WoW, again. The audience just get bored and moves on by rote.

Yes... it is the fault of all of the gamers in the world that they don't want to play GW2. It is clearly not the fault of the game.

 

It is certainly not that you get to endgame ridiculously fast and then the endgame is boring as hell. Nope. It is that all gamers who don't like GW2 clearly suck and that is nothing but a fact..........................

 

Really?

  fiontar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/04
Posts: 3687

12/05/13 4:56:21 PM#91
Originally posted by Aeonblades
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by observer

"For more than a year, free-to-play MMO Guild Wars 2"

Why do people always get this wrong?  It's buy-to-play., just like TSW is b2p.  EQ2 is f2p.  Rift is f2p.  Swtor is f2p.

As for the "most updated mmo",  well, sort of.  The quality of it isn't so great though, especially when most of it was temporary or holiday events.

As if the quality of content is connected with how long it is available.

The Mad King's Tower is an awesome jumping puzzle that returns every year.

Southsun is an area with an interesting jumping puzzle and tough enemies.

The Queen's Gauntlet was a cool player vs boss (or mobs) with different mechanics.

The Bazaar of the Four winds jumping achievement was quite good.

Tequatl revamp created a tough open world boss.

The Tower of Nightmares is also a tough place where groups are required for survival.

Fractals are decent dungeons.

Some of the mini games, like southsun survival or the aspect arena, are quite good and available.

There are also a few open world mini dungeons that were added after release and are interesting.

I think the point was a bunch of jumping puzzles and once a year content isn't really content to begin with.  Same with mini games. You can only play so many rounds of mini games and Mario style jump puzzles before you start craving some real meat and potatoes. The biggest problem being that they can't really add any true meat to the game because they have backed themselves into a corner with no progression, no trinity, no options. Most other MMO's already have these timed events every year, so I don't really consider those "content updates".

 

I disagree on the "Why". The only corner they backed themselves into was daring to do something different, then abandoning the clear road ahead to try to make new content appeal more to old paradigm thinking. The current studio leadership also seems to lack the understanding and commitment to the new paradigm needed to fully embrace it. Higher level characters find lower level content much less rewarding than originally promised. Old school thinking hobbles the game's potential. When world content is no longer as rewarding as promised, they decide to abandon the focus on progressing Dynamic Event content that would have provided an actual evolving, living world. This destroys what made the game great and what could have made the game a unique gem through appropriate content updates.

Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated

  Telondariel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/11/10
Posts: 866

12/05/13 4:59:07 PM#92
Originally posted by fiontar
  • First, GW2 didn't see a sharp decline in player interest, which then led to Living Story. The game was going incredibly strong UNTIL Living Story, after which the numbers started to plummet.                                                                                                                                      
    • Second, "careful what we wish for"? Sorry, but I don't know anyone that wished for Living Story and it's slew of fluff, adventure by checklist, temporary content. What many of us wished for was for the game to build on it's incredible core strengths, by continually adding to and evolving Dynamic Event content across the game world!                                                              
  • The game hasn't floundered because they gave us what we thought we wanted. It is floundering because Arenanet 2013 apparently has no clue what made the core game such a success and decided to go off on the failed tangent which was Living Story. No one asked for that massive waste of development resources. No one!
    • It's become clear that Arenanet lost a lot of key people after launch, likely due to poor compensation following the production of one of the best at-launch MMOs the genre has ever seen. They also apparently retained some vets not via deserved raises, but by promoting to management positions they just are not suited for. Arenanet 2013 is not pre-release Arenanet, not by a mile.                                                                   
  • Design wise, it all comes back to Dynamic Events and Arenanet's abandonment of the game world. During development, one developer in an interview boasted how efficient their Dynamic Event creation tools were and how they would leverage that efficiency into an aggressive update schedule after launch. Well, apparently, that developer must be one of the ones the studio lost, because after launch suddenly Dynamic Events went from "Easy to produce" to, "Oh, those are too hard". Colin's tease that we could see the number of DEs double or triple in the first year evaporated and even many broken DEs across the game world went unfixed for ages.
    • Apparently, lack of ability to produce Dynamic Event content, likely related to a loss of key talent, led to a new strategy. Living Story.
  • Pretty early on in Living Story, I called them out as fluff, smoke and mirrors updates, meant to try to provide an illusion of substance out of what was not really much content at all. I think that early judgement has been vindicated. Living Story was just one big magic act meant to make a lot of nothing seem like a lot of something. Unfortunately, it was never a very convincing trick and the result is that Arenanet, via the Living Story fiasco, has squandered away much of the game's massive potential.
    • 2013 Arenanet has basically just been spinning it's wheels with content creation busy work that has done nothing to build on the incredible potential this game possessed at launch. In fact, the nature of this "content" has been so counter to the core game that it has turned off many fans who loved the game at launch and couldn't wait to see where it would go next.
  • I find it unbelievable that the author would try to shift any of the blame onto the fans for "asking for something that didn't actually make us happy". Living Story is all Arenanet 2013. The fans didn't want it. It was a complete reversal on many of the core design concepts that made the game great. It has clearly driven more and more players from the game with every update. Yet, they stuck to it in a downward spiral of self delusion, self denial and self destruction.
    • But, hey, it's the most updated MMO in the world, that must mean something, right? Right?
 
Sorry for the bullet points and indents, trying to make it readable, as the line breaks seem to be being stripped by the editior.

+10 

  Destai

Elite Member

Joined: 8/31/09
Posts: 483

12/05/13 5:31:52 PM#93
Originally posted by Tekaelon
As stated many times I am NOT GW2 hater! The game has a variety of innovations that no other game has come close to. That said, the living story drove me from the game. Although I was able to play most of the content the meaningless story and monotonous grind for an ever growing collection of armor/weapon skins to much to bare. Every release of new content replaced the idea of being in a world with the impression of playing an arcade game. It just felt like my character was not progressing.

Besides its combat, what's innovative about it? It hasn't revolutionized any gaming system. Where once a zone had hundred of quests, GW2 tells MMO players and developers you just need events. Where once you had factions and reputations, you have 3 guilds that cease mattering once you've completed the main story. Where once you had large updates with new raids and dungeons, you have a two week cycle where we get new signs to fix. 

They haven't revolutionized questing, grouping, raiding, character development, roleplaying, or even their own damn story.

Current MMOs: Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, the Secret World, World of Warcraft

Past Loves: Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Everquest

  Velocinox

Elite Member

Joined: 3/15/06
Posts: 637

12/05/13 6:05:05 PM#94
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf
Originally posted by Velocinox

Best MMO on the market at the moment.

 

The lack of users is just commentary on the lack of critical thinking and fickle nature of today's MMO gamer.

 

No MMO will ever succeed like EQ and WoW, again. The audience just get bored and moves on by rote.

Yes... it is the fault of all of the gamers in the world that they don't want to play GW2. It is clearly not the fault of the game.

 

It is certainly not that you get to endgame ridiculously fast and then the endgame is boring as hell. Nope. It is that all gamers who don't like GW2 clearly suck and that is nothing but a fact..........................

 

Really?

Really.

 

Endgame really fast? Plenty of Korean grinders out there making billions... oh wait, they aren't.

 

Endgame boring... Anecdotal. You think it is, doesn't make it a fact just displays your bias.

 

Really.

'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.


No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than the one you've become familiar with.


How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.

  Polantaris

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/18/09
Posts: 55

12/05/13 6:57:22 PM#95

I find it funny that so many people fail to realize that the team developing these Living Story updates isn't all that big.

Do you all think the rest of GW2's development team is sitting around doing nothing?

No one here should be surprised if there is an expansion announced within the next 6 months.  It is obviously coming.

---
This is but a brief parting.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2759

12/05/13 7:09:13 PM#96

The halloween event was OK.  There was another event that opened more landmass but I wasn't able to be online when the big world boss was killed.  they definitely could have used phasing technology in that case.

 

It sounds like they add content that replaces the old content, again phasing could alleviate those things so that you can see all of the created content.

 

My biggest critique is the lack of a trinity and the chaotic but not too fun group combat.

  kyssari

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 159

"Reality is but a figment of our collective imaginations." -N.E.S.

12/05/13 7:56:59 PM#97
got the title a little bit off, should read "Guild Wars 2: The game with the most temporary one time events!" Some of the stuff is kinda fun but the fact that almost none of them have any permanent content updates to the game at all kinda ruins it all for me :\
  rodingo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/07
Posts: 1648

12/05/13 8:04:11 PM#98
Originally posted by kyssari
got the title a little bit off, should read "Guild Wars 2: The game with the most temporary one time events!" Some of the stuff is kinda fun but the fact that almost none of them have any permanent content updates to the game at all kinda ruins it all for me :\

I think the title should read "Anet:  Damned if they do, damned if they don't."  

"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  stevebombsquad

Elite Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 590

12/05/13 8:07:32 PM#99
Originally posted by fiontar
  • First, GW2 didn't see a sharp decline in player interest, which then led to Living Story. The game was going incredibly strong UNTIL Living Story, after which the numbers started to plummet.          

Actually they did see a decline http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/23/lead-designer-says-guild-wars-2-is-growing-its-playerbase/ and the Living Story is a response to it as they determined that it brought the population back and gave them something to log in for......It was with the LS that they started to see slow but steady growth.

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

12/05/13 8:24:35 PM#100
Regardless, it's still the most frequently updated. You guys just don't share the same vision with ANet about moving content. This is their idea of a living world.
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