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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » The Greatest Potential, Wasted

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119 posts found
  angerbeaver

Elite Member

Joined: 6/15/06
Posts: 612

Games Played:Ultima OnlineRappelzLOTROWoWGWGW2SWTOR

12/03/13 9:05:29 AM#21

Personally I loved this game to no end prior to Moria. Once Moria came out with barred instances (I forget the name of the gear now but you had to have a certain level of it to do the next tier of instances) I fell a little less in love. Then Skirmishes came as a "secondary thing to do" but you could tell it was a focus point and I fell a little more out of love.

I definitely think it could have been better but I don't think it was completely wasted that's for sure. Greatest 2 years of my gaming life was Lotro =)

kryles Xfire Miniprofile
  Ehliya

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/06
Posts: 185

12/03/13 9:06:15 AM#22
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

During Moria, it dropped to average, at best, Moria being brighter and more colorful than a disco nightclub on a Saturday night... not to mention the addition of Sith Lords... err sorry, Runekeepers, and seeing elves riding giant goats all over the place.

After that, each new expansion except maybe Mirkwood made the game less LOTR and more "generic fantasy MMORPG". The last outrage was a random band of adventurers entering Orthanc, and surviving (and even besting!) Saruman in his own home.

This game is no longer LOTR, no longer Tolkien. It's a cash shop driven money sucker trying to empty as many wallets as possible before finally closing down.

That in a nutshell was basically why I left.  If you go back and read the earlier PR on LOTRO, they were very careful to say they planned a game world that was faithful to Tolkien's vision.  They did a great early job - the Shire was wondrous.

I agree it would have been tough sticking to their guns.  But the WOW-style is like a spreading plague with its Pandas and LOTRO caught the virus and started throwing in the afore-mentioned Dwarven Sith Lords, etc.  I fully expect before the game ends players will all have their own personal Eagle or Nazgul mount (special this week, half-off in the cash-shop!).

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

12/03/13 9:11:19 AM#23
Originally posted by Ehliya
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

During Moria, it dropped to average, at best, Moria being brighter and more colorful than a disco nightclub on a Saturday night... not to mention the addition of Sith Lords... err sorry, Runekeepers, and seeing elves riding giant goats all over the place.

After that, each new expansion except maybe Mirkwood made the game less LOTR and more "generic fantasy MMORPG". The last outrage was a random band of adventurers entering Orthanc, and surviving (and even besting!) Saruman in his own home.

This game is no longer LOTR, no longer Tolkien. It's a cash shop driven money sucker trying to empty as many wallets as possible before finally closing down.

That in a nutshell was basically why I left.  If you go back and read the earlier PR on LOTRO, they were very careful to say they planned a game world that was faithful to Tolkien's vision.  They did a great early job - the Shire was wondrous.

I agree it would have been tough sticking to their guns. 

Why would it have been tough? I suppose they didn't see the writing on the wall yet that copying WoW is how you end up with a stagnant game... But they screwed over their veteran devs and their fans by switching to WoW clone at the last minute and totally changing the mission statement.

Fun fact, The Shire, the best part of the game to most people, was the area most focused on during the sandbox era development of Middle Earth Online.

When I said all the best parts of LotRO were relics of MEO, I wasn't kidding. The Shire, the music, the deeds, the morale system vs health.

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/03/13 9:20:05 AM#24
There is no other game that comes close to having the immersion of books and movies put into a game.  What other game can you ride from one iconic landmark (from the shire to Rivendell or Isengard to Helms Deep for example) without load screens?  What other games has a better epic story (Besides Swtor) .  The Meo crew luckily smaller than swg crew but they are still bitter lotro didn't turn into their precious game they dreamed about.  Lotro has not been wasted not even close if it was it would not be around releasing content continuing this epic journey 6+yrs later.
  ThomasN7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6654

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

12/03/13 9:20:07 AM#25
It is Turbine. What did you expect ? It still amazes me that people actually think Turbine is actually good at what they do. They are an average developer at best in my opinion. Whoever granted them the rights to this ip should have their heads checked. I love Lotr and giving the rights to Turbine was a huge fail. It is really disappointing.
  Skuall

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 788

12/03/13 9:23:33 AM#26
  Solar_Prophet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/13
Posts: 625

12/03/13 9:25:02 AM#27
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

Their art department did a great job.

But all the game mechanics are tired, outdated, and boring. Their world is fractured, instanced, and full of invisible walls. The best part of Middle Earth (exploring it) isn't even possible in this quest grind adventure based game. You can't live in Middle Earth, you have to quest through little instances of it. And that, is the opposite of a "wonderful job".

What? I've played the game for a long time, and I spent a lot of time exploring Middle Earth. I'd also like to know where these 'invisible walls' are, as I've only come across maybe a half dozen of them throughout the entire world.

Unless you're going to try to tell me that I imagined getting lost in the Trollshaws while exploring off the beaten 'quest path'. Same happened in Goblin-Town.

For a themepark, the game is probably the best interpretation of Middle Earth which will ever be made. Same goes for the films; despite their flaws Peter Jackson did a wonderful job bringing Middle Earth to fans old and new, and I doubt they can be done any better w/o making them 8-10 hours long apiece.

Today's message is brought to you by the U.S. Department of Education! Making our children more stupid since 1979!

  Mendel

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 622

12/03/13 9:32:03 AM#28
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Simply put , one media doesnt translate good into another media.

You say that LOTR films are good. But as Tolkien fan that first time read LOTR 25 years before the movies , and than many times over. I say that movies are far away from doing justice to the book material. Even insulting it.

That hit one of my many hot buttons.

Having read LotR annually for close to 40 years now, I can definitively say the book is vastly different from the films.  The books were written in a (now) older literary style, heavy narrative with a limited omniscient point of view and limited dialog (less than 10% of the books are dialog).  There were scattered female characters, Galadriel and Eowyn being the two most prominent.  Much of Arwen's information was either in the appendix (not the story proper), or in related works (Silmarillion).  A good portion of Arwen's appearances in the movies was that of other characters in the books (mostly Glorfindel), and done in order to add a female character to the first movie.  Many early scenes were omitted (Fatty Bolger, Farmer Maggot, and Tom Bombadil) for brevity, replaced with antics of Merry and Pippin at Bilbo's birthday party (both characters would have been young -- Merry 19 and Pippin 11 at the time).  The movie conveniently ends soon after Aragorn's wedding, truncating the entire 'return to the Shire' ending.

And we'll all be happier if I don't get started on how Gimli was transformed from a solemn, dour dwarven warrior into a vehicle for comic relief.

Anyway, Lobotomist's point about translating from one media to another (book to film, or book to game, or movie to game) is very apt.  Something is always going to be lost in the process.  LotRO is about as good a game as one can reasonably expect and still maintain some semblance to the novel it derives from.

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

12/03/13 9:34:54 AM#29
Originally posted by Kicksave321
There is no other game that comes close to having the immersion of books and movies put into a game.  What other game can you ride from one iconic landmark (from the shire to Rivendell or Isengard to Helms Deep for example) without load screens? 
 
Considering they own the license to the game, no one. So that isn't exactly praise. Too bad you can't ACTUALLY go to all those locations because most of them are quest locked, forcing you to grind. Some even insta kill you if you haven't done the right quests. No, I'm not talking about mob agro, I mean the game will just slay you and be like "Hey, don't go here until you buy the level 50 premium quest"

 

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

12/03/13 9:36:29 AM#30
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

Their art department did a great job.

But all the game mechanics are tired, outdated, and boring. Their world is fractured, instanced, and full of invisible walls. The best part of Middle Earth (exploring it) isn't even possible in this quest grind adventure based game. You can't live in Middle Earth, you have to quest through little instances of it. And that, is the opposite of a "wonderful job".

What? I've played the game for a long time, and I spent a lot of time exploring Middle Earth. I'd also like to know where these 'invisible walls' are, as I've only come across maybe a half dozen of them throughout the entire world.

Well, there's about 5 in The Shire, there's several up in Angmar and the Misty Mountains, lots in the Old Forest, a few in the Archet area, and some in Weathertop. Not to mention all the dungeons that have doors that, when you click them, literally say "You cannot enter here without the proper quest."

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4808

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

12/03/13 9:44:52 AM#31
Originally posted by ThomasN7
It is Turbine. What did you expect ? It still amazes me that people actually think Turbine is actually good at what they do. They are an average developer at best in my opinion. Whoever granted them the rights to this ip should have their heads checked. I love Lotr and giving the rights to Turbine was a huge fail. It is really disappointing.

This is so unfair. Please do tell me one better adaptation of any book or movie to a video game , not to say MMO.

 

As for point made about breaching the lore soon after you leave the Shire.

Point being made, its the game. As far as growing pipeweed and gossiping would be far more fitting. I doubt that anyone including you would manage to play 6 years time of watch the cabbage grow. Not even 1 week.

Its a game.

 

As for lore ending with Shire. I also beg to differ.

Just that climb down the secret passage to Rivendell was worth awe to any Tolkien fan.

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/03/13 9:49:45 AM#32
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

Their art department did a great job.

But all the game mechanics are tired, outdated, and boring. Their world is fractured, instanced, and full of invisible walls. The best part of Middle Earth (exploring it) isn't even possible in this quest grind adventure based game. You can't live in Middle Earth, you have to quest through little instances of it. And that, is the opposite of a "wonderful job".

What? I've played the game for a long time, and I spent a lot of time exploring Middle Earth. I'd also like to know where these 'invisible walls' are, as I've only come across maybe a half dozen of them throughout the entire world.

Well, there's about 5 in The Shire, there's several up in Angmar and the Misty Mountains, lots in the Old Forest, a few in the Archet area, and some in Weathertop. Not to mention all the dungeons that have doors that, when you click them, literally say "You cannot enter here without the proper quest."

There are not 5 invisible walls in the shire, Angmar your referring to the dread you get if you don't follow the story.  Try to follow the story (main part of the game) instead of running around trying to find things that don't exist.  Weathertop wtf?  Are taking about the skirmish?  There are no invisible walls in the open world of weathertop etc etc etc this myth about invisible walls is a joke.  Yeah you can't go to domes caves cause you didn't complete or follow a quest do the quest then you can.  If you think Lotro is not one of the more open world mmos out today you at just trolling plain and simple. 

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

12/03/13 9:52:41 AM#33
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

Their art department did a great job.

But all the game mechanics are tired, outdated, and boring. Their world is fractured, instanced, and full of invisible walls. The best part of Middle Earth (exploring it) isn't even possible in this quest grind adventure based game. You can't live in Middle Earth, you have to quest through little instances of it. And that, is the opposite of a "wonderful job".

What? I've played the game for a long time, and I spent a lot of time exploring Middle Earth. I'd also like to know where these 'invisible walls' are, as I've only come across maybe a half dozen of them throughout the entire world.

Well, there's about 5 in The Shire, there's several up in Angmar and the Misty Mountains, lots in the Old Forest, a few in the Archet area, and some in Weathertop. Not to mention all the dungeons that have doors that, when you click them, literally say "You cannot enter here without the proper quest."

 Try to follow the story (main part of the game) instead of running around trying to find things that don't exist.

And here is the main problem I found with the game. Instead of allowing you to explore Middle Earth at your own risk, they force you down corridoors, block you with visible and inivisble gates, and more or less ruin any chance of letting yourself get lost in the game world.

I don't enter Middle Earth to follow a scripted linear half ass attempt at a singleplayer game. I go to be in Middle Earth, and LotRO tries to stop me. I'm not looking for things that don't exist, I'm just exploring, like I can do in virtually every other MMO.



Originally posted by Lobotomist
 

If you think Lotro is not one of the more open world mmos out today you at just trolling plain and simple. 

It isn't, by far. I just explained it. Invisible walls, quest locked zones, all dungeons are locked unless you follow a linear quest chain, every house has a loading screen. Games from the 90s were more open than LotRO.

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2718

There... are... four... lights!

12/03/13 9:52:44 AM#34
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Just that climb down the secret passage to Rivendell was worth awe to any Tolkien fan.

Did you really think that passage was "secret"? Honestly?

Well, we definitely don't have the same concept of "secret" then. While the view down the valley back in 2007 (when the graphics were "modern") was quite cool, the passage was definitely not secret, just follow the "theme park" road (you can't do anything else anyway because of the invisible walls and restrictive hills on each side) and you get there.

I found it at low level with my very first character, without breaking a sweat. There are more "secrets" in a single area of GW2 than in the whole LOTRO world.

Playing now: Archeage, WoW, Landmark, GW2

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/03/13 10:09:29 AM#35
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Solar_Prophet
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

Their art department did a great job.

But all the game mechanics are tired, outdated, and boring. Their world is fractured, instanced, and full of invisible walls. The best part of Middle Earth (exploring it) isn't even possible in this quest grind adventure based game. You can't live in Middle Earth, you have to quest through little instances of it. And that, is the opposite of a "wonderful job".

What? I've played the game for a long time, and I spent a lot of time exploring Middle Earth. I'd also like to know where these 'invisible walls' are, as I've only come across maybe a half dozen of them throughout the entire world.

Well, there's about 5 in The Shire, there's several up in Angmar and the Misty Mountains, lots in the Old Forest, a few in the Archet area, and some in Weathertop. Not to mention all the dungeons that have doors that, when you click them, literally say "You cannot enter here without the proper quest."

 Try to follow the story (main part of the game) instead of running around trying to find things that don't exist.

And here is the main problem I found with the game. Instead of allowing you to explore Middle Earth at your own risk, they force you down corridoors, block you with visible and inivisble gates, and more or less ruin any chance of letting yourself get lost in the game world.

I don't enter Middle Earth to follow a scripted linear half ass attempt at a singleplayer game. I go to be in Middle Earth, and LotRO tries to stop me. I'm not looking for things that don't exist, I'm just exploring, like I can do in virtually every other MMO.



Originally posted by Lobotomist
 

If you think Lotro is not one of the more open world mmos out today you at just trolling plain and simple. 

It isn't, by far. I just explained it. Invisible walls, quest locked zones, all dungeons are locked unless you follow a linear quest chain, every house has a loading screen. Games from the 90s were more open than LotRO.

 

My my post is very accurate about you. If you start the game in Bree for example you can explore tons of the game your first issue would be in angmar when you hit dread.  You have any idea how long it would take you to get there and what you would experience on your way?  Ok you want to go the other direction your 1st loading screen would be Moria again any clue how long it would take you to get there?  What you would see along the way with no invisible walls in Weathertop or Rivendell or misty mountains .   Pleas tell me a few mmo that have a more open world then Lotro.  Again if you think lotro world is not open then your a troll plain and simple.  Go play FFXIV, even Swtor, or Sto, or Age of Conan etc etc.  you mass amounts of invisible are nothing but a poor attempt at bashing a video game you don't like.  
  flizzer

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/10/12
Posts: 1150

12/03/13 10:12:20 AM#36
I am a huge Tolkien fan and have been playing LOTRO since 2008 and loving it.   I think Turbine has done a fine job with making a Lord of the Rings MMO.  I plan on playing well in to Mordor and hopefully beyond. 
  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

12/03/13 10:13:04 AM#37
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Just that climb down the secret passage to Rivendell was worth awe to any Tolkien fan.

Did you really think that passage was "secret"? Honestly?

Well, we definitely don't have the same concept of "secret" then. While the view down the valley back in 2007 (when the graphics were "modern") was quite cool, the passage was definitely not secret, just follow the "theme park" road (you can't do anything else anyway because of the invisible walls and restrictive hills on each side) and you get there.

I found it at low level with my very first character, without breaking a sweat. There are more "secrets" in a single area of GW2 than in the whole LOTRO world.

 

There are more loading screens between zones and invisible walls in gw2 than lotro and lotro world is about 5x the size of GW2.
  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

12/03/13 10:18:06 AM#38
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Just that climb down the secret passage to Rivendell was worth awe to any Tolkien fan.

Did you really think that passage was "secret"? Honestly?

Well, we definitely don't have the same concept of "secret" then. While the view down the valley back in 2007 (when the graphics were "modern") was quite cool, the passage was definitely not secret, just follow the "theme park" road (you can't do anything else anyway because of the invisible walls and restrictive hills on each side) and you get there.

I found it at low level with my very first character, without breaking a sweat. There are more "secrets" in a single area of GW2 than in the whole LOTRO world.

 

There are more loading screens between zones and invisible walls in gw2 than lotro and lotro world is about 5x the size of GW2.

That is entirely unrelated to what he said. LotRO takes you on a yellow brick road to all the points of interest, GW2 doesn't.

  fodell54

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/08
Posts: 321

Swift as the windQuiet as the forestConquer like the fireSteady as the mountain-Sun Tzu

12/03/13 10:18:17 AM#39
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Just that climb down the secret passage to Rivendell was worth awe to any Tolkien fan.

Did you really think that passage was "secret"? Honestly?

Well, we definitely don't have the same concept of "secret" then. While the view down the valley back in 2007 (when the graphics were "modern") was quite cool, the passage was definitely not secret, just follow the "theme park" road (you can't do anything else anyway because of the invisible walls and restrictive hills on each side) and you get there.

I found it at low level with my very first character, without breaking a sweat. There are more "secrets" in a single area of GW2 than in the whole LOTRO world.

There is nothing "secret" in any MMO. Everything can be found out as an mmo is not the real world. I think you're confusing the two.

I think LOTRO is still a fun game and am enjoying playing it. Stop being so burnt out and go get some fresh air.

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

12/03/13 10:20:33 AM#40
Originally posted by Kicksave321
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa
 

 

My my post is very accurate about you. If you start the game in Bree for example you can explore tons of the game your first issue would be in angmar when you hit dread.  Except for all the locked rooms and dungeons that require quests, which you encounter constantly. You have any idea how long it would take you to get there and what you would experience on your way?  It took me about 40 minutes to get to Angmar, thinking I'd be able to explore, only to get insta killed without reason or warning and have to go back. Ok you want to go the other direction your 1st loading screen would be Moria again any clue how long it would take you to get there?  What you would see along the way with no invisible walls in Weathertop or Rivendell or misty mountains .   Pleas tell me a few mmo that have a more open world then Lotro.  Dark Age of Camelot. Asheron's Call. Darkfall. Vanguard. Star Wars Galaxies. Ryzom. Fallen Earth. Almost every one I've played. Again if you think lotro world is not open then your a troll plain and simple.  Go play FFXIV, even Swtor, or Sto, or Age of Conan etc etc.  you mass amounts of invisible are nothing but a poor attempt at bashing a video game you don't like.  Those all have the same problems LotRO does, why would I play them?

 

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