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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » The Greatest Potential, Wasted

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119 posts found
  stealthbr

Elite Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1064

 
OP  12/02/13 11:44:24 PM#1

With a universe so large, widespread, and well-known such as The Lord of the Rings, I can't help but feel disappointed with the current state of the IP in gaming. It is, perhaps, the most critically acclaimed fantasy tale in all of written history, yet the games based off this intellectual property are but mere dots in a vast landscape vehemently dominated by other, far more successful products. After reading the books and viewing the movies multiple times, it is with great sadness that I perceive its current situation, and can't help but wonder what it could achieve if it were to fall into the hands of a far more ambitious team.

I do not intend to convey resentment or anger towards The Lord of the Rings Online. It is its own game, bearing its merits and flaws. Yet, the image on the horizon of what a Lord of the Rings game could truly achieve perplexes me to wonder how such a vision has yet to come to fruition. Turbine's MMO does not face the most comfortable of situations, evidently, and as with all things, it will one day come to an end, but somehow I do not foresee such a conclusion arriving in glorious fashion, worthy of the game's title.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1082

12/03/13 12:38:51 AM#2

With a universe so large, widespread, and well-known such as Star Wars the Old Republic, I can't help but feel disappointed with the current state of the IP in gaming. It is, perhaps, the most critically acclaimed Sci Fi movie in history, yet the games based off this intellectual property are but mere dots in a vast landscape vehemently dominated by other, far more successful products. After reading the books and viewing the movies multiple times, it is with great sadness that I perceive its current situation, and can't help but wonder what it could achieve if it were to fall into the hands of a far more ambitious team.

I do not intend to convey resentment or anger towards Star Wars the Old Repiblic. It is its own game, bearing its merits and flaws. Yet, the image on the horizon of what a Star Wars game could truly achieve perplexes me to wonder how such a vision has yet to come to fruition. Biowares' MMO does not face the most comfortable of situations, evidently, and as with all things, it will one day come to an end, but somehow I do not foresee such a conclusion arriving in glorious fashion, worthy of the game's title.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

12/03/13 12:54:24 AM#3

Well, this game used to be an ambitious sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, that focused on simulating life in Middle Earth.

 

Then WoW got big, Turbine got scared, fired most of their devs, hired devs fresh out of college, and in 9 months fast tracked this game into LotRO, instanced quest grinding linear game with boring mechanics and atmosphere ruined by invisible walls, instances, and bad gameplay. The only good features in the games are relics from Middle Earth Online.

 

It's a shame what happened and I wish another company could get a shot with it. But so long as a publisher is behind it, we'll never get a good MMO in Middle Earth.

  Flex1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/06
Posts: 413

“Give thanks for a little and you will find a lot.”The Hausa of Nigeria

12/03/13 12:57:32 AM#4

The same thing happened to the Star Trek ip and possibly Neverwinter and its world.

 


  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1082

12/03/13 1:06:39 AM#5
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Well, this game used to be an ambitious sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, that focused on simulating life in Middle Earth.

 

Then WoW got big, Turbine got scared, fired most of their devs, hired devs fresh out of college, and in 9 months fast tracked this game into LotRO, instanced quest grinding linear game with boring mechanics and atmosphere ruined by invisible walls, instances, and bad gameplay. The only good features in the games are relics from Middle Earth Online.

 

It's a shame what happened and I wish another company could get a shot with it. But so long as a publisher is behind it, we'll never get a good MMO in Middle Earth.

Here is a link  to which you speak.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/21/the-game-archaeologist-and-the-what-ifs-middle-earth-online/

Be sure to read the last paragraph.

 

Still, calling Lotro a  greatest wasted potential   is stretching it a bit much.   The game is fine on its own and if someone wants to try making a Middle Earth Online then more power to them.

 

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1082

12/03/13 1:10:22 AM#6
Originally posted by Flex1

The same thing happened to the Star Trek ip and possibly Neverwinter and its world.

 

Yes, you could insert those games into the OP's post as well as pretty much any game and still nothing changes.   It is still just the eloquently misguided opinion of one person.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  stealthbr

Elite Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1064

 
OP  12/03/13 1:41:22 AM#7
Originally posted by Boneserino

Hers a link a link to which you speak.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/21/the-game-archaeologist-and-the-what-ifs-middle-earth-online/

Be sure to read the last paragraph.

Still calling Lotro a  greatest wasted potential   is stretching it a bit much.   The game is fine on its own and if someone wants to try making a Middle Earth Online then more power to them.

 

The title does not refer to LotRO, per se, but to the fact that games based off The Lord of the Rings have thus far been unable to fulfill the grandeur and splendor of such a rich and powerful IP. That, in my opinion, conveys to the greatest waste of potential, at least in the fantasy genre of games.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4884

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

12/03/13 1:51:38 AM#8

Simply put , one media doesnt translate good into another media.

You say that LOTR films are good. But as Tolkien fan that first time read LOTR 25 years before the movies , and than many times over. I say that movies are far away from doing justice to the book material. Even insulting it.

And that is film , which falls into same narative family with books.

So how can you than give justice to it in a game, and not only a game but themepark MMO ?

 

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

In fact its best adaptation of story to a game in all gaming. And i challenge you to dispute this.

However its a game and it has to adhere to gameplay , technical limitations , investors ... etc.

 

This is why a material made for games works best for games.

Which goes same for any media to media adaptation.

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 1082

12/03/13 3:27:30 AM#9
Originally posted by stealthbr
Originally posted by Boneserino

Hers a link a link to which you speak.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/21/the-game-archaeologist-and-the-what-ifs-middle-earth-online/

Be sure to read the last paragraph.

Still calling Lotro a  greatest wasted potential   is stretching it a bit much.   The game is fine on its own and if someone wants to try making a Middle Earth Online then more power to them.

 

The title does not refer to LotRO, per se, but to the fact that games based off The Lord of the Rings have thus far been unable to fulfill the grandeur and splendor of such a rich and powerful IP. That, in my opinion, conveys to the greatest waste of potential, at least in the fantasy genre of games.

Thank you, I stand corrected.

 

Unfortunately Lotro is the game we have now, and it is unlikely that anyone will be attempting to achieve that potential in the near future.     Similarly with the Star Wars IP as well, as many feel after SWG, Swtor was a case of wasted potential also.

 

Still it makes little sense to me to bemoan the things that might have been.    I could have been rich if only I was born with millions of dollars.   Sadly it was not meant to be. 

 

Forgot to add:   Nicely stated post Lobotomist, I quite agree.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

12/03/13 7:12:21 AM#10

LOTRO as it was during pre-Moria was an honorable game adaptation of LOTR, even though the MEO project was must better and closer to Tolkien. There's a reason why I pre-ordered this game after playing the beta in 2006/2007.

During Moria, it dropped to average, at best, Moria being brighter and more colorful than a disco nightclub on a Saturday night... not to mention the addition of Sith Lords... err sorry, Runekeepers, and seeing elves riding giant goats all over the place.

After that, each new expansion except maybe Mirkwood made the game less LOTR and more "generic fantasy MMORPG". The last outrage was a random band of adventurers entering Orthanc, and surviving (and even besting!) Saruman in his own home.

This game is no longer LOTR, no longer Tolkien. It's a cash shop driven money sucker trying to empty as many wallets as possible before finally closing down.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8890

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

12/03/13 8:28:17 AM#11
Originally posted by stealthbr

With a universe so large, widespread, and well-known such as The Lord of the Rings, I can't help but feel disappointed with the current state of the IP in gaming. It is, perhaps, the most critically acclaimed fantasy tale in all of written history, yet the games based off this intellectual property are but mere dots in a vast landscape vehemently dominated by other, far more successful products. After reading the books and viewing the movies multiple times, it is with great sadness that I perceive its current situation, and can't help but wonder what it could achieve if it were to fall into the hands of a far more ambitious team.

I do not intend to convey resentment or anger towards The Lord of the Rings Online. It is its own game, bearing its merits and flaws. Yet, the image on the horizon of what a Lord of the Rings game could truly achieve perplexes me to wonder how such a vision has yet to come to fruition. Turbine's MMO does not face the most comfortable of situations, evidently, and as with all things, it will one day come to an end, but somehow I do not foresee such a conclusion arriving in glorious fashion, worthy of the game's title.

There is exactly no single fact in this statement to back up your opinion..

 

if ever there was one MMO close to the lore and stories of an IP its this game, everything (exceot the runekeepr)  is close to the lore.. For a seven year old game the landscapes are astonishing in beauty. 

I have grown to become accustomed to the combat and espescially when playing my warden its awesome.

 

 

So whenever calling a game a waste, you ought to back it up by facts... and not just throw in a general feeling based on your personal state of mind.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  stealthbr

Elite Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 1064

 
OP  12/03/13 9:00:30 AM#12
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Simply put , one media doesnt translate good into another media.

You say that LOTR films are good. But as Tolkien fan that first time read LOTR 25 years before the movies , and than many times over. I say that movies are far away from doing justice to the book material. Even insulting it.

And that is film , which falls into same narative family with books.

So how can you than give justice to it in a game, and not only a game but themepark MMO ?

 

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

In fact its best adaptation of story to a game in all gaming. And i challenge you to dispute this.

However its a game and it has to adhere to gameplay , technical limitations , investors ... etc.

 

This is why a material made for games works best for games.

Which goes same for any media to media adaptation.

The post was not meant to focus on LotRO's technicalities, for I am no game developer and do not know exactly what makes an MMO tick, but to regard upon the current state of The Lord of the Rings intellectual property within the gaming sphere. The monumental success of both novel and movie renditions draws my attention to its situation and leaves me to ponder upon the possibilities that come with such an IP.

  nerovipus32

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2734

12/03/13 9:08:40 AM#13
It feels like you are in middle earth though, so in my opinion they did a good job.
  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

12/03/13 9:13:14 AM#14
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by stealthbr

With a universe so large, widespread, and well-known such as The Lord of the Rings, I can't help but feel disappointed with the current state of the IP in gaming. It is, perhaps, the most critically acclaimed fantasy tale in all of written history, yet the games based off this intellectual property are but mere dots in a vast landscape vehemently dominated by other, far more successful products. After reading the books and viewing the movies multiple times, it is with great sadness that I perceive its current situation, and can't help but wonder what it could achieve if it were to fall into the hands of a far more ambitious team.

I do not intend to convey resentment or anger towards The Lord of the Rings Online. It is its own game, bearing its merits and flaws. Yet, the image on the horizon of what a Lord of the Rings game could truly achieve perplexes me to wonder how such a vision has yet to come to fruition. Turbine's MMO does not face the most comfortable of situations, evidently, and as with all things, it will one day come to an end, but somehow I do not foresee such a conclusion arriving in glorious fashion, worthy of the game's title.

There is exactly no single fact in this statement to back up your opinion..

 

if ever there was one MMO close to the lore and stories of an IP its this game, everything (exceot the runekeepr)  is close to the lore.. For a seven year old game the landscapes are astonishing in beauty. 

I have grown to become accustomed to the combat and espescially when playing my warden its awesome.

 

 

So whenever calling a game a waste, you ought to back it up by facts... and not just throw in a general feeling based on your personal state of mind.

It's not like you are making a point with your post either, since you ignore 99% of the lore breaking changes except the "runekeeper".

At least Peter Jackson, while he indeed added elves to the battle of Helm's Depth, didn't make them charge the enemy on giant goats. And he didn't make a bunch of rag tag nobodies enter Orthanc and challenge Sarumane in his very home (and walk away alive to tell about it).

 

Originally posted by Lobotomist

In fact its best adaptation of story to a game in all gaming. And i challenge you to dispute this.

See this post and my previous post. While it was decent at the beginning, it's getting worse every new patch and expansion.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  DocBrody

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 1638

12/03/13 9:13:45 AM#15

The only really cool MMO based on a movie license is Age of Conan.

The Matrix was interesting but bugged as hell.

SWG was cool but also too buggy and ahead of its time, therefore lacked in the technical aspects.

 

 

Neither LOTRO nor SWTOR are my cup of tea.

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4884

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

12/03/13 9:25:33 AM#16
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by stealthbr

With a universe so large, widespread, and well-known such as The Lord of the Rings, I can't help but feel disappointed with the current state of the IP in gaming. It is, perhaps, the most critically acclaimed fantasy tale in all of written history, yet the games based off this intellectual property are but mere dots in a vast landscape vehemently dominated by other, far more successful products. After reading the books and viewing the movies multiple times, it is with great sadness that I perceive its current situation, and can't help but wonder what it could achieve if it were to fall into the hands of a far more ambitious team.

I do not intend to convey resentment or anger towards The Lord of the Rings Online. It is its own game, bearing its merits and flaws. Yet, the image on the horizon of what a Lord of the Rings game could truly achieve perplexes me to wonder how such a vision has yet to come to fruition. Turbine's MMO does not face the most comfortable of situations, evidently, and as with all things, it will one day come to an end, but somehow I do not foresee such a conclusion arriving in glorious fashion, worthy of the game's title.

There is exactly no single fact in this statement to back up your opinion..

 

if ever there was one MMO close to the lore and stories of an IP its this game, everything (exceot the runekeepr)  is close to the lore.. For a seven year old game the landscapes are astonishing in beauty. 

I have grown to become accustomed to the combat and espescially when playing my warden its awesome.

 

 

So whenever calling a game a waste, you ought to back it up by facts... and not just throw in a general feeling based on your personal state of mind.

It's not like you are making a point with your post either, since you ignore 99% of the lore breaking changes except the "runekeeper".

At least Peter Jackson, while he indeed added elves to the battle of Helm's Depth, didn't make them charge the enemy on giant goats. And he didn't make a bunch of rag tag nobodies enter Orthanc and challenge Sarumane in his very home (and walk away alive to tell about it).

 

Originally posted by Lobotomist

In fact its best adaptation of story to a game in all gaming. And i challenge you to dispute this.

See this post and my previous post. While it was decent at the beginning, it's getting worse every new patch and expansion.

I did play it until Moria ( and some time with Moria ) - What happened after F2P switch is different topic.

 

But If anyone ever say something about failure to bring a cross the lore to a game world. Just let them start as a hobbit in Shire.

Nuff said.

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

12/03/13 9:28:37 AM#17
Originally posted by Boneserino
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Well, this game used to be an ambitious sandbox game called Middle Earth Online, that focused on simulating life in Middle Earth.

 

Then WoW got big, Turbine got scared, fired most of their devs, hired devs fresh out of college, and in 9 months fast tracked this game into LotRO, instanced quest grinding linear game with boring mechanics and atmosphere ruined by invisible walls, instances, and bad gameplay. The only good features in the games are relics from Middle Earth Online.

 

It's a shame what happened and I wish another company could get a shot with it. But so long as a publisher is behind it, we'll never get a good MMO in Middle Earth.

Here is a link  to which you speak.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/21/the-game-archaeologist-and-the-what-ifs-middle-earth-online/

Be sure to read the last paragraph.

 

Still, calling Lotro a  greatest wasted potential   is stretching it a bit much.   The game is fine on its own and if someone wants to try making a Middle Earth Online then more power to them.

 

You are confused, but it is understandable. A lot of people who weren't there get confused.

Sierra's Middle Earth Online is not the same project as Turbine's Middle Earth Online.

Sierra's project ended sometime around 1999. Turbine then started Middle Earth Online, using the Asheron's Call 2 engine, and renamed this project Lord of the Rings Online about 9 months before going into beta.

 

The massive pre release community got fractured between the now enforced EU US servers, the developers we built a relationship were shuffled off to DDO or fired, and the entire community, which was strong and large enough to put together a giant fan gathering in Providence, auctioning off movie props and such... vanished. LotRO never really recovered, never having a great population or reputation, but not a bad one either.

 

And if you don't call taking the original fantasy IP, with the richest lore and setting, and turning it into a shallow and generic WoW clone a waste, then I don't know what is.

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

12/03/13 9:33:40 AM#18
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that Turbine did wonderful job for what its worth.

Their art department did a great job.

But all the game mechanics are tired, outdated, and boring. Their world is fractured, instanced, and full of invisible walls. The best part of Middle Earth (exploring it) isn't even possible in this quest grind adventure based game. You can't live in Middle Earth, you have to quest through little instances of it. And that, is the opposite of a "wonderful job".

  Jean-Luc_Picard

Elite Member

Joined: 1/10/13
Posts: 2902

There... are... four... lights!

12/03/13 9:53:06 AM#19
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I did play it until Moria ( and some time with Moria ) - What happened after F2P switch is different topic.

 

But If anyone ever say something about failure to bring a cross the lore to a game world. Just let them start as a hobbit in Shire.

Nuff said.

I won't disagree (The Shire is one of the best if not the best area of the game), but this ends at approx. level 15 when you leave the Shire since there's nothing left to do there at your level range... which is, as a Hobbit, the first lore breach of the game.
 To be continued later with Hobbit "tanks" tanking a Balrog or invading Sarumane's own tower... ;-)

So like 15 levels out of 90 are "the best adaptation of a book ever", and considering XP is exponential in LOTRO as in all WOW clones, that's like 5% of the game, being very generous.

LOTRO would have worked much better (in my opinion) with either a 100% skill based character development without levels (like UO) which makes non-combat characters 100% viable, or with a level downscaling system and dynamic events like GW2 which wouldn't make areas like the Shire obsolete once you hit a specific level.

In the meantime, if I really want a "visual" journey to Middle Earth, I rather watch the Jackson movies than play this game.

Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2

Got a refund: Archeage. First refund since I started MMOs.

Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO and GW2.

"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.

  Tibernicuspa

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 1008

12/03/13 10:04:32 AM#20
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I did play it until Moria ( and some time with Moria ) - What happened after F2P switch is different topic.

 

But If anyone ever say something about failure to bring a cross the lore to a game world. Just let them start as a hobbit in Shire.

Nuff said.

I won't disagree (The Shire is one of the best if not the best area of the game), but this ends at approx. level 15

I'm not sure I would even give it that much credit. The Shire has some great lore related stuff like the Bounders.

But then they start to shatter the lore by having you fight monsters in the rich sector of the Shire. You can't actually travel down the Brandywine (which the hobbits did in the book) and you start fighting bandits, reskinned wolves, slimes, slugs, and other trash mobs just hanging out that shouldn't be where they are. Cap it off with giant mountains ringing most of the Shire, with invisible walls, and you have your most immersive part of the game shattered. Not to mention, other than the bounders quests, the quest text doesn't have any impact on what you're doing in the game world. You're still just fighting THE SAME WOLVES that shouldn't be there.

RANGERS protected The Shire, not Bounders.

And, as a pet peeve, I preferred the original Shire music they had when the game was called Middle Earth Online. Then it became a tavern song in DDO, and then became the music for Tom Bombadil's house.

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