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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Glad ESO will be Subscription model

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151 posts found
  Kicksave321

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/13
Posts: 309

11/30/13 2:54:54 PM#81
I am glad it will be going SUB.  NOT ALL but a vocal minority of f2pers ruin games these days.  You read these threads and the lies and misinformation about this game is ridiculous and I would bet most of it is because the f2pers a pissed its going to be a sub.  There is a reason F2pers are not allowed in most game forums. This Entitlement mentality doesnt work in society and doesnt work in video games.  Its sad a pathetic to see people actually hate a video game and go out of their way to lie and post misinformation about a video game to the extent of hoping a video game fails just so it goes f2p so they can come in and cry and whine its not free enough.  
  NobleNerd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/08/08
Posts: 670

Try not! Do or do not. There is no try.

11/30/13 3:04:53 PM#82
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I always wonder why subscription gamers are so cheap and will only spend $15 a month on games they like. They really need to get real jobs that pay something so they can actually spend some money on their hobby. You can spend $50 a week or more on paintball or hunting, not to mention the gear, but sub gamers are so cheap they equate their hobby to eating at a fast food joint. It's sort of pathetic.

Not totally sure if this is serious or sarcastic but with me, I'd consider spending more than $15 on a game if it was really great but I refuse to buy virtual items in games. expecting me to spend money on bag space or mounts is just an insult to my intelligence. If you say "our game is worth X dollars a month!" that is a different thing.

Buying virtual items is ludicrous to you and insults your intelligence, but renting temporary access does not.  Okay, whatever floats your boat. You pay your way and I'll pay mine. With my way I control exactly how much I spend and when I spend it.

And to get the same items, content, etc in a f2p game verse sub. you will end up paying 5x more. That is ludicrous to me.

  iridescence

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1492

11/30/13 3:09:29 PM#83
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

Renting access?  You are always renting.  You never own anything.  The difference is a game designed to milk you for money or a game designed to keep you playing.  Pick your poison.

F2P crowd cracks me up.  

Rent: The definitions of rent all start similarly: "a regular payment to the owner for the right to use". When a sub is required to access the server you are renting. A F2P or B2P doesn't require a rental payment. I think you're willfully confusing the concept that servers are never guaranteed to remain open and that everything has an end. That isn't the same as renting.

With P2P "designed to keep you playing" and "milking your for money" are equivalent. If you play then they are milking you for money. The concept of milking being to draw a resource consistently over time. That resource is your monthly fee. The milking in P2P is not optional. The milking in F2P or B2P is optional.

 

 

You're actually paying for content updates not just renting your spot in the game. Some games try to charge a sub for just basically a "rental" but those games usually fail hard when people realize what they're doing. I'm fine with them wanting me to keep playing. I desire a  game with longevity and fun that I'll want to stick with so the sub company's interests and my interests coincide.

I'm fine with being "milked" if I'm getting value back every month. I don't feel entitled to get entertained for free but I prefer companies to be up-front about the price of things rather than hitting me with tons of little hidden charges for a "free" game. I know not all F2P models are like that but a lot are. 

 

 

The P2P crowd always cracks me up too because they get so irate when people don't like to pay and play their way.

I'm not part of any "crowd". I can see some advantages to F2P for games I'm on the fence about but if I really think a game is going to be good I've usually found P2P delivers the higher quality experience, enough to justify the monthly fee.

 

  killahh

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/04
Posts: 455

As famous as the unknown soldier

11/30/13 3:11:21 PM#84
Originally posted by rojo6934
you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

i dont believe you at all, sorry.

 

i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

 

Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  orionblack

Elite Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 487

11/30/13 3:15:05 PM#85
Originally posted by killahh
Originally posted by rojo6934
you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

i dont believe you at all, sorry.

 

i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

 

They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

  artemisentr4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1444

11/30/13 3:34:16 PM#86
Originally posted by cybersrs
Kinda off topic, sorry... There will not be RAID like 10+ players? Only Dungeon 4 players?

Adventure zones will have group play from 4 to 24 in the zone. But not much known about what kind of content will be for the 24 man.

 

I have no problem paying a sub. In fact I would rather play a MMO with a sub than in other way. I haven't found a F2P yet that I can play for more than a few weeks. The problem is a lack of quality in F2P games IMO. Same for B2P IMO as well. But that has lead to the current problem we have with just about every new MMO.

 

There are so many options now that the overall quality just keeps getting worse for every type of game. That is a problem brought about by the B2P and F2P market. Very few gamers will play a game for very long. Every game has to have the same content as games that have been out for years or they fail now. Games are not allowed to grow over time, it is an all or nothing type of market. So paying a sub means years of content must be in the game on day one. That increase the cost of development that leads to needing to earn back that cash ASAP which leads to F2P for the new crop of expensive low content games with subs.

 

All of this is creating the bad games we have been getting. It is trying to please the masses that can never be pleased. Making it near impossible to create a sub and build type of MMO of the past. Everything has to be instant access, free or I quit, give me the world now or I will go play some other F2P and not spend a dime.

 

Sub games will struggle in today's market. Even if that is the best investment for a MMO IMO. I just hope ESO will have some time sinks or ways to slow players down while leveling. Because that is the only way to keep players for more than a month. Using psychology used to be called Warcrak. (the missing formula for the millions of subs) Chasing the carrot, creating frustration, that leads to a must finish attitude. Low drop rates, grinding for rep, long chain quests with a lot of travel time, and so on. Taking months to reach end game with an end game that was very difficult. Difficulty used to make players want to log in day after day. But I think that type of leveling is dead and buried.

 

 

“How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?”
R.A.Salvatore

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16881

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 3:42:24 PM#87
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
 

If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

Have you ever gone through angst over a $5 impulse buy? I'm walking through Walmart and see a DVD I don't have in the $5 bin and buy it. I don't go home later and froth and churn over it. I certainly don't send Walmart letters condemning them for offering cheap stuff.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I don't see a value in renting my games anymore. I used to buy them before these publishers tried the "rent your mmo" deal. They didn't live up their end of the bargain of providing a return for that $180 per year, not to mention the box fees they started adding in to that cost so it's more like $240 per year. I never spent $240 for single player title with multi-player components (Doom, DukeNukem, NWN, Starcraft), let alone that much per year.

I see B2P and F2P with a cash shop as a way I can control my spending. I spend what I want when I want. If it's not worth much to me I won't spend much. If it is worth more and I appreciate the game then I'll spend more than that $240/yr. You don't control your spending with a mandatory monthly rental fee unless you stop playing. And then what, all that you've spent is null and void unless you pony up more cash. No thanks.

But with all that said, I don't care if this game is sub-locked. I think more options are good. There seem to be a lot of people here who like renting their games and I think it's good some publishers cater to that. I don't have to play every game and every publisher doesn't have to monetize my way. There is nothing wrong with them choosing this payment model in my opinion.

For me it's just a matter of convenience, no need to keep adding or taking away from my planned budget for the month. WIth a sub I know what I'll be spending on that game for the entirety of the month. IN a lot of free to play it's a matter of what I may want that month which may be more convenient for some I can see that, as it can be cheaper or even free.

What turns me off is the whole, pay this much to briefly access this specific content, pay that much to briefly access this other content, getting behind subbed friends because I didn't feel like buying xp pots this month, etc. It just seems like a system based on impulse to me. I'll play any game no matter the payment model if I like that game, I just have a specific preference. I'm not one of those guys who will denounce a game based on payment model.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16881

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 3:44:48 PM#88
Originally posted by orionblack
Originally posted by killahh
Originally posted by rojo6934
you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

i dont believe you at all, sorry.

 

i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

 

They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3624

11/30/13 3:56:23 PM#89
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by orionblack
Originally posted by killahh
Originally posted by rojo6934
you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

i dont believe you at all, sorry.

 

i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

 

They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.

for me the only real thing missing from it is the open world/sandbox that the single player games had

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 16881

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 3:58:25 PM#90
Originally posted by djazzy
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by orionblack
Originally posted by killahh
Originally posted by rojo6934
you know, if the game felt like a real TES game and offered more i would have paid a sub. I wont tell any details because i respect the NDA but i will say that i felt i was playing Defiance without guns. Definitelly not worth a sub.

i dont believe you at all, sorry.

 

i am in the beta, and alot of people i know from old and just met are too and the consensus is 100% different than yours.,

 

They just have to polish up some , but yeah I feel the same way. Felt like a TES game to me....

It feels TES to me as well, with a world design and art design that reminds me of DAOC.

for me the only real thing missing from it is the open world/sandbox that the single player games had

Agreed

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Torval

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6962

11/30/13 4:04:32 PM#91
Originally posted by Distopia

For me it's just a matter of convenience, no need to keep adding or taking away from my planned budget for the month. WIth a sub I know what I'll be spending on that game for the entirety of the month. IN a lot of free to play it's a matter of what I may want that month which may be more convenient for some I can see that, as it can be cheaper or even free.

What turns me off is the whole, pay this much to briefly access this specific content, pay that much to briefly access this other content, getting behind subbed friends because I didn't feel like buying xp pots this month, etc. It just seems like a system based on impulse to me. I'll play any game no matter the payment model if I like that game, I just have a specific preference. I'm not one of those guys who will denounce a game based on payment model.

I understand where you're coming from and respect that. Like I said, I think it's good there are games that offer different ways to do what we like.

I also get why some people get cheesed off when a game comes out that doesn't support how they want to pay. I get that some f2p or b2p players are frustrated over the sub thing. I also get why some people get annoyed that some games are f2p or b2p if they like subs. 

No one has as many friends as a man with many cheeses!

  Flaming_MMO

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/12
Posts: 141

11/30/13 4:05:00 PM#92
The open world is pretty much one of the main reasons why I enjoy Elder Scrolls games in the first place. I am looking forward to the next single player Elder Scrolls game that is not an MMO personally.   This looks like half the game that Skyrim is with MMO elements thrown in. 
  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 8095

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

11/30/13 4:20:43 PM#93

I would say it is most definitely the way to go because you know there is no imbalance in game play,it is the same for everyone and as intended.The problem is that in now a days games,we cannot trust ANY of the developers.

I would say every single dev now is eyeing up the possibility of a sub fee for as long as it is accepted with a contingency plan on going cash shop soon after.

So what happens is you might be all happy,buy the game,sub for 3 months,then BAM cash shop starts in.You just invested time and money to a product that has changed and now you are no longer happy.I have been lucky,i joined FFXI on day 1 and it has remained true for it's entirety and maybe the only game to do so.

I will hope and prey that ESO is a sub fee forever  and i hope it is a game that is actually worth it,the industry needs it.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
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  Superman0X

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/28/06
Posts: 1448

11/30/13 6:51:55 PM#94
The only problem I have with ESO starting as P2P is that when it converts to F2P, it will propogate the myth that F2P games are lower quality. The game is good.. it is just not going to survive as P2P.
  User Deleted
11/30/13 7:02:26 PM#95
Originally posted by Superman0X
The only problem I have with ESO starting as P2P is that when it converts to F2P, it will propogate the myth that F2P games are lower quality. The game is good.. it is just not going to survive as P2P.

Some of the highest quality games are P2P to F2P conversions.  I don't know of one MMORPG that was built with F2P from the start that doesn't amount to a carney game as you get further involved in it.

  muppetpilot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/07/12
Posts: 135

11/30/13 7:04:49 PM#96

Don't you just love how these topics degenerate into the "P2Pers versus F2Pers" arguments, full of sound and fury and nerdrage?

Isn't it phenomenal, how people will fruitlessly try to "prove" how their way of spending (or not spending) their own money is somehow "better" or "smarter" than someone else's way of spending their money?

If you don't like the sub model, then go find yourself an f2p game; for the love of God, it's not like there aren't a million of them out there!  And if you're like me and prefer a sub game, there are still some left and apparently more of them incoming. 

And if you simply don't like the sub model, or don't have the funds to be able to afford one, that does NOT mean that the model is "dead" or that all MMOs should be f2p.  Christ, people, don't you think there is enough of a sense of entitlement in this country already?  And on the other end of the spectrum, if you happen to like the sub model, that most certainly doesn't mean that there's anything inherently wrong with the f2p way of playing.  It never really appealed to me but that doesn't mean it hasn't appealed to quite a few others.

Good God, you people sit here and hide behind your keyboards and bash each other and the publishers and developers and everybody else....and yet the world keeps on turning and studios keep making business decisions without your input, don't they?  Hmm, perhaps there's a lesson to be learned from that...

"Why would I want to loose a religion upon my people? Religions wreck from within - Empires and individuals alike! It's all the same." - God Emperor of Dune

  iamrta

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/11
Posts: 165

11/30/13 7:09:57 PM#97
That said, I won't play if it's F2P.
  Rampaji

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/13
Posts: 51

12/01/13 9:58:00 AM#98

im happy to see its gonna be a Subscription to play. :) the price range now a days is payable anyway :)

 

Looking forward to play this game!

Be the change you want to see in the world.

- Mahatma Gandhi

  Panzerbase

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 456

12/01/13 10:00:00 AM#99
More importantly you best hope they have a good game to offer, by all reports beta was a disaster. 
  ElRenmazuo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4520

 
OP  12/01/13 7:48:08 PM#100
Originally posted by Panzerbase
More importantly you best hope they have a good game to offer, by all reports beta was a disaster. 

By all reports? because from my experience most people seemed to enjoy it including me.  Im not saying I didnt see any complaints but the majority had good things to say for its current state.  If by disaster you mean bugs and other usual beta complaints like server performances than that means the beta was a success as it did what it was intended for.  I really wish I could just say some hard info but I cant.

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