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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Glad ESO will be Subscription model

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151 posts found
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15578

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 8:02:11 AM#21
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by nerovipus32
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.

Fair enough, I'm not anti cash-shop it's just not my preference.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15578

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 8:10:20 AM#22
[mod edit]

Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1171

11/30/13 8:12:20 AM#23
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by nerovipus32
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.

No, you're not paying for "the few that do". That is such ridiculous logic.

You're paying for access to the entire game. Everything. Just as everyone else is. 

You're not paying more than them. Whether others do everything in the game, or hardly anything in the game, your sub fee doesn't change, and - here's the key part - neither does theirs. They are paying their own sub fee, just like you, just like everyone else. No one is paying for anyone else.

Now, ironically... that's exactly what happens in F2P/Cash Shop MMOs. The spenders literally keep the ship afloat so the non-spenders can enjoy the party for free. So, yeah... Though somehow I don't think you'll have a problem with it in that setting.

What you are paying for in P2P MMOs is 24/7 access to everything and anything you might feel like doing. It's there if you want to. 

It's no different than paying for cable service. Do you watch every single channel? No? Does that mean you're paying for others to watch it? Of course not, they're paying their own subscription fee.

It's like a magazine or newspaper subscription. Many people only read a few sections and that's it. Does that mean people are paying for sections of the paper they don't read, so others can? No, of course not. Everyone's paying their own subscription fee and getting access to all the same content.

The examples go on and on.

It's hysterical - and yet, sad - seeing all the various ways people try to spin subscriptions to make them sound like they're somehow these evil things, or like their developers are pulling some dirty trick on the players. It couldn't be farther from the truth. It's as plain and straight-forward a deal as you can have. You pay $15 a month (or whatever), you get full access to the game's servers, including all patches, events, customer support and content updates short of major expansions (and some P2P MMOs even include that). You feel you no longer want to play the game, or that it's no longer worth  your monthly sub, you simply cancel and you will no longer be charged. While you're subbed, everything in the game is available to you, along with the content associated with it.  The developer provides the content and 24/7 access to it, you pay a flat fee, you get access to all of it. Simple, straight-forward, no hidden details or strings attached.

Now, you want to talk about a revenue model mired in deceit, exploitation of human psychology, social pressures and behaviors, and so forth? Go do some research on the F2P/Cash Shop system. That's a true "masterpiece" in underhanded tactics, ulterior motives and disingenuous claims.  I mean, let's just start at the start.. They market themselves as "free", yet set up the entire system with the full intent, and expectation, that people will actually spend more money, more often.

I can agree that if you absolutely only ever want access to specific content - and that's it - that being able to pay for it piece-meal isn't a bad way to go (though piece meal pretty much always ends up costing more than paying for everything at once - in any context, MMO or otherwise). However, it still wouldn't mean that, with subs, you're "paying for the few that do", any more than those people are paying for you to do content that you like, which they have no interest in. All the content is equally available to all of you.

"Devs need to stop trying to make MMOs for people who don't like MMOs" - thevampirelematt/Reddit

  Herase

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 248

11/30/13 8:12:37 AM#24
Originally posted by nerovipus32
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

I would disagree, every time i play a F2p game i never feel a sense of community, most people just hop from game to game because they have no reason to commit and put time into the game. tbh i have the same feeling everytime i play a F2p game, i have like 6+ on my desktop, but never play them very often because i don't feel commited to the game. From what iv'e seen aswell with F2p games, is your more likely to spend shit load more in a month than you would paying £8.99 a month;

.Extra toon slots

.Bank slots

.Skill repsec

.Gold cap

.Auction house cap

.Toon customization 

.Vanity items

.Exp boost

.Crafting boost

.ETC..

Not everyone payd, but a lot do or the game would die. I rather fork over £8.99 than spend around £20 to use basic functions or a few pounds each time to stay competitive, also i know the money i spend all goes towards content than more items on the shop.

 

 

 

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 867

11/30/13 8:13:00 AM#25
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
 

If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

Yes, i bought several games which i regret but nothing from the cash shops. 

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15578

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 8:15:17 AM#26
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
 

If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

Yes, i bought several games which i regret but nothing from the cash shops. 

What's the difference really? :)

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  syntax42

Elite Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1137

11/30/13 8:16:35 AM#27
Originally posted by nerovipus32
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

I have seen bad subscription games and good F2P games.  However, the overall production quality is typically much higher for the games which start off with subscription-based payment models.  The cash shop games tend to focus too much on monetizing and result in things on their market being too expensive, a feeling of being unable to proceed without paying, or a purely pay-to-win system.  

Few games deviate from those patterns.  I can't think of a single F2P game I enjoyed as much as some of my favorite subscription games.  I have given plenty of games a chance, including some Asian games.  So, based on my personal experiences, free-to-play games are not worth my time.  

I still try them out from time to time, but only when a highly-hyped F2P game is released.  The last one I played was Age of Wushu, but that was so horribly done with translations, and the lack of the game's ability to explain itself just frustrated me until I quit playing.

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 867

11/30/13 8:16:42 AM#28
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
 

If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

Yes, i bought several games which i regret but nothing from the cash shops. 

What's the difference really? :)

The difference is i played several games till i got bored of them without paying a dime.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15578

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 8:21:14 AM#29
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
 

If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

Yes, i bought several games which i regret but nothing from the cash shops. 

What's the difference really? :)

The difference is i played several games till i got bored of them without paying a dime.

I was referring to the quip about seeking professional help.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  cura

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 867

11/30/13 8:24:56 AM#30
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by cura
 

If you have problems controlling your spendings maybe you shoudl visit a psychologist. I have no problem with it. I spent twenty times or more on worthless subscriptions then ftp games.

Never bought something on impulse? It's quite common.

Yes, i bought several games which i regret but nothing from the cash shops. 

What's the difference really? :)

The difference is i played several games till i got bored of them without paying a dime.

I was referring to the quip about seeking professional help.

Ahh, thats not a problem since i could probably count that games on one hand. 

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4175

 
OP  11/30/13 8:30:18 AM#31
Originally posted by skyline385
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

I am really interested in knowing which game you possibly played where you need to buy access to regions. Or even a game which forcefully pops up a window telling the deals of the day as soon as you login. You actually sound like you have never played a F2P MMO.

And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.

In lord of the rings online you have to buy regions

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 4175

 
OP  11/30/13 8:31:56 AM#32
Originally posted by nerovipus32
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

I just gave you 3 examples why yet im brainwashed.  If I was brainwashed I wouldnt have played so many f2p or b2p mmos in my life.  Its because I played so many of both that to me my experience with sub models have been more enjoyable personally compared to those other models. 

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1053

11/30/13 8:39:07 AM#33
Originally posted by Ender4

Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

Yeah take WoW for example not only do they charge a monthly fee they also charge for the game and has one of the most expensive cash shops in the MMO market ($20-25 dollar mounts anyone???)

  koboldfodder

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 367

11/30/13 8:45:59 AM#34

LOTRO is a game where you can buy access to regions, raids and entire expansions.  Everything in that game is divided up into small, purchasable chunks.  It also has "Deals of the Day" and a GIANT button that takes you to the in game store.  EQ2 is the same way. 

That's actually standard for F2P games.  ESO will go F2P, in record time.

  fs23otm

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/11/07
Posts: 260

11/30/13 8:48:08 AM#35

Subscription is better then cash shop, hands down.

I would rather play the game, and work in game to acquire, for example, bigger or more bag slots. Not just pay 4.99 for a bag slot and then 4.99 for the max bag.... that is how it goes with cash shops. 

  A1learjet

Novice Member

Joined: 12/31/04
Posts: 125

11/30/13 9:00:21 AM#36
Originally posted by vmoped
Originally posted by skyline385

And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.

I do not believe you speak for the majority, and neither do I, but your statement is false.  We cannot go further with this due to the NDA though...

@OP, I agree with the sub model as well.  I have been playing mmo's before we even had RIP graphics on BBS services.  I have to say, that in general, I have experienced better communities in subscription mmo's, than in f2p mmo's.  I have also experienced less 'nickel and diming' from the sub model.  I prefer to pay a set amount for total access than this al a carte garbage that attempts to lure you into spending more or suffer a grind.  There are always exceptions to this, but these are my thoughts on this in general. 

I believe there is some psychology to a game that has a monthly fee that adds value compared to one that anyone can play on, which has no value to some.  It reminds me of a child.  If they work to earn something, they tend to appreciate and care for it more.  If it is just given to them, then they tend to not care for it as much.  You can go do the research on perceived value and behavior in the marketplace that supports my beliefs on this.

Cheers!

True on a number of points as a P2P actually seems to get you more in the form of Content and updates and if anyone feels gw2 adds that then thats a sign of the mmo times  as is the fluff in so mnay games.

If subbing adds to a better community? well its 50/50 here as theres turds in every game.I myself wish the game to do well  but when looking at a business aspect Id rather see it a B2p then go sub model for as long as they feel there staying in the black.I really see this adding some style of cash shop as well  to supplement cash flow.

I could be wrong but in todays market of mmos its the way.

 

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

11/30/13 9:02:56 AM#37
ESO will make bittersweet love to the dead, bloated carcass of the FTP model. ESO will then take out a pearl handled dagger from it's cloak & slice open the tender underbelly, exposing FTP's innerds. ESO will then begin to sort through the gooey insides. Lifting up FTP's entrails high above it's head, ESO will begin the ceremony by speaking in tongues & barking at the moon.

All of the subscription minded players will ascend to an immortal status as the F2P parasites will squirm like slugs in salt.

The end.
  Dkuang

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/13
Posts: 14

11/30/13 9:16:06 AM#38
Originally posted by Aldous.Huxley
ESO will make bittersweet love to the dead, bloated carcass of the FTP model. ESO will then take out a pearl handled dagger from it's cloak & slice open the tender underbelly, exposing FTP's innerds. ESO will then begin to sort through the gooey insides. Lifting up FTP's entrails high above it's head, ESO will begin the ceremony by speaking in tongues & barking at the moon.

All of the sunscription minded players will ascend to an immortal status as the F2P parasites will squirm like slugs in salt.

The end.

All this is moot since ESO is basically heading from a P2P game bombing and turning F2P in a year or so, depending on how many fanboys/girls throw their money at the game in preorders/subs at launch. Because honestly, the game's just a bunch of hype feeding on the Elder Scrolls name at the moment and considering they're so close to open beta, not much is going to change the core game.

 

And to the OP, f2p vs P2p. At the end of the day, you need to find a F2P game that has a good business model (Path of Exile, Rift) and obviously you'd want said developers to make money right? So they can actually keep the servers up for said games and develop content? Unless you're one of those free loading ass hats that want  access to 100% of the game and not pay them for any service and just cry about a cosmetic skin you want which only costs 3$? But feel the cash shops are leaching money baggers? Regardless of it being F2P or P2P? So you either spend some money on some cash shop cosmetics or pay a sub if its sub based. If you're using the F2P cash shop, don't blow over $15 a month and you'll feel happy?

 

With the ridiculous amount of MMO's that have launched P2P, I would say most of them have gone F2P with some cash shopping. Why? Because the games simply suck, bad mechanics, shit end game, or just shit game to begin with or maybe because so many people have become jaded with what MMORPG's are anymore? Disillusioned as well? And I'd say the OP is disillusioned if he feels a P2P game is equaling to quality or whatever else they may feel is associated with it, because its not.

  Sho0terMcgavin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 318

11/30/13 11:19:22 AM#39
Originally posted by sanshi44
Originally posted by Ender4

Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

Yeah take WoW for example not only do they charge a monthly fee they also charge for the game and has one of the most expensive cash shops in the MMO market ($20-25 dollar mounts anyone???)

Apparently, you've never played Neverwinter then lol. 

  Zairu

Novice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 493

Yes, this is a personal attack.

11/30/13 11:28:44 AM#40
Originally posted by cura
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

The fact they will milk people before going FTP is insulting to customers. Some are just not intelligent enough to see it.

 

 

you win.

 

seriously.

 

they are blinded. but let them waste money on subs if they really think it's worth it to keep paying for a game that you already paid 60$ for.

 

box fee and expansions is the way to go. otherwise, you just like being scammed.

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