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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Glad ESO will be Subscription model

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151 posts found
  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3824

 
OP  11/30/13 12:14:29 AM#1
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.
  goboygo

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/02/13
Posts: 303

11/30/13 12:21:40 AM#2
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

  reeereee

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 684

11/30/13 12:22:22 AM#3
Pft, I'll have to to disagree with you on this one.  I just love playing games where the devs spend all their time working on new things for the cash shop rather than adding real content.
  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

11/30/13 12:24:39 AM#4

Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5540

11/30/13 12:30:22 AM#5

A lot of people are glad about that. The question is: are enough people going to sub up month 2? If not, then F2P in 6 months. Is this game going to be able to hold onto enough subs considering that it isn't planning any raids and is mostly focused around GW2 style WvW PvP with 4 man dungeons at endgame?

 

I can't wait to see what happens with this one. To me though, it doesn't look like it's planning to offer enough for long term subscribers. But then there could be some unannounced stuff that no one knows about.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15106

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 12:31:13 AM#6
Originally posted by Ender4

Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

It would be rather idiotic on their part to launch with one now.  They did after all come out to correct a false publication that they were going to have one, after a translation error (That's their story anyway).

As for comparing a sub price in the same vein as an in your face piecemeal alternative, I'll take paying that 15 if I like the game enough any day.

 

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  ElRenmazuo

Elite Member

Joined: 10/28/06
Posts: 3824

 
OP  11/30/13 12:31:44 AM#7
Originally posted by goboygo
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

Next time I play a f2p im gonna make a character named "Not Sure" as a tribute to that movie lol

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15106

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 12:32:25 AM#8
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Originally posted by goboygo
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

Next time I play a f2p im gonna make a character named "Not Sure" as a tribute to that movie lol

LMAO

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  jdnyc

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/10/12
Posts: 1729

11/30/13 12:51:59 AM#9
Yep sounds about right.
  skyline385

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/09/13
Posts: 601

11/30/13 1:04:26 AM#10
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

I am really interested in knowing which game you possibly played where you need to buy access to regions. Or even a game which forcefully pops up a window telling the deals of the day as soon as you login. You actually sound like you have never played a F2P MMO.

And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.

  Entropy14

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/14/10
Posts: 652

11/30/13 1:26:19 AM#11
I agree of all the AAA MMO's coming out , I think this one is going to bomb the hardest, the combat and the world looks sooo boring. Sadly the more I see of this game the worse it gets.
  vmoped

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 1722

11/30/13 7:26:37 AM#12
Originally posted by skyline385

And if they are doing a Sub, then they have a shit ton to do to improve the game. The last beta left the majority of the crowd disappointed and bored. So, unless they can turn the game around in the 6 months they have, they are looking at a huge failure.

I do not believe you speak for the majority, and neither do I, but your statement is false.  We cannot go further with this due to the NDA though...

@OP, I agree with the sub model as well.  I have been playing mmo's before we even had RIP graphics on BBS services.  I have to say, that in general, I have experienced better communities in subscription mmo's, than in f2p mmo's.  I have also experienced less 'nickel and diming' from the sub model.  I prefer to pay a set amount for total access than this al a carte garbage that attempts to lure you into spending more or suffer a grind.  There are always exceptions to this, but these are my thoughts on this in general. 

I believe there is some psychology to a game that has a monthly fee that adds value compared to one that anyone can play on, which has no value to some.  It reminds me of a child.  If they work to earn something, they tend to appreciate and care for it more.  If it is just given to them, then they tend to not care for it as much.  You can go do the research on perceived value and behavior in the marketplace that supports my beliefs on this.

Cheers!

MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  nerovipus32

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2697

11/30/13 7:30:51 AM#13
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.
  cura

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/04
Posts: 859

11/30/13 7:33:59 AM#14
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

The fact they will milk people before going FTP is insulting to customers. Some are just not intelligent enough to see it.

  nerovipus32

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2697

11/30/13 7:34:56 AM#15
Originally posted by goboygo
Originally posted by ElRenmazuo
Because not only will it be an insult to the series and make it seem cheap if it was either f2p or b2p with cash shop, it would personally kill the kind of immersion I get from playing an elder scrolls title.  Just imagine logging in and the first thing that pops up is a window saying deals of the day lol.  Or zoning to a new area only to be stopped and reminded I need to buy this area to go on further.  Or seeing people with hair styles that werent available in character creation.  I think even the console fans would have been like WTF is this.

You and I understand this but you now have an entire generation of gamers that believe the deal of the day pop up message in their F2P MMO is completely normal.  Very similar to the movie idiocracy.

Giving money over to a sub par service is in no way intelligent regardless of the way you pay. Prefering a subscription model does not make you less of an idiot than any other sucker who pays for these repetitive games. p2p is as much p2w as f2p is. If you don't pay every month you can't win.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4515

11/30/13 7:38:34 AM#16

Payment model is not indicative of the quality of a game - those days are long gone.

  TangentPoint

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1094

The "Real Game" begins at character creation.

11/30/13 7:44:42 AM#17
Originally posted by Ender4

Subscription does not mean no cash shop, people should realize this by now. All they have done is made you waste $15 a month to get what you can get for free elsewhere and make you spend $15 to try the game again after you take a break.

Subscription means a cash shop is not necessary. Some MMOs add them on out of pure greed (or perhaps because subs are somehow not covering the expenses), but that is a more recent thing that came about only since people started embracing the idea of paying extra money for items in a game you're already paying to play. I don't agree with it, either, but hey.. if people weren't so eager to buy the stuff, they probably wouldn't bother selling it.

At the very least, a sub-based MMO adding a cash shop can at least limit it to truly cosmetic, non-game affecting things and can avoid the draw of adding things are ever more compulsory. Unlike a F2P MMO, their  ability to stay in business doesn't depend on people spending as much in the cash shop as they can, as often as they can. They have a sub fee as their primary revenue source, and, so, can be more selective in what they sell.

Your second statement is flawed because you can't get the same experience elsewhere. Each MMO is its own experience, in its own world, its own setting, its own story, classes, races, etc. There's similarities in that they're all MMOs, but in many cases that's where it ends. Hey... Cola is Cola. Yet there are myriad different brands, and people still choose one brand as a favorite over all others. Why do you think that is? Because despite being similar, they're not the same. Same concept here.

You're not going to find an Elder Scrolls MMO, or anything like it, anywhere else, free or otherwise. Unless you can point me to one? Zenimax may have a copyright case on their hands if there is one.

Yes, a subscription-based MMO makes its money on the concept of providing a wide-open game where progress is made and the entire game is experienced through playing the game (rather than spending money), and making it enjoyable enough for people to want to stick around and continue playing month after month. There's no need to think about nickel and diming, or impulse spending more money in a cash shop or not. Everything is obtained by playing the game.

How much or how little money someone has outside the game means nothing inside the game because everyone has the same requirements to get what they want. Whether something is "just vanity" or not isn't an issue because it's obtained in-game, by playing. Whether a means of travel is faster than another isn't such an issue because everyone can obtain it in the same way, by playing. Whether a piece of gear makes a character more powerful isn't an issue because everyone can obtain it in the same way, by completing the same content. P2P MMOs are built around this crazy concept of actually playing your way through the content, not buying your way through it. 

Ultimately, it's just like any other subscription service people will happily pay for and never think twice about it, so long as it's worth it to them. And no matter how much you play, you will never spend more than $15 a month (or whatever the sub fee is for a given game), except for the occasional expansion.

Further, the idea that it seems "offensive" to you that you'd have to pay $15, or any amount, to engage in activity produced by another entity (be it a company or anyone else) isn't a strike against them for charging it. The concept of products and services being offered in exchange for money isn't some strange, alien concept. Subscriptions for a service are not some strange alien concept. They're quite standard and quite normal.

So, that final remark of yours about "making you pay $15 to try the game again" is both disingenuous and indicative of an entitled, "I shouldn't have to pay for something I want" mentality. But hey, you're not alone. There's a lot of  people floating around these days who've been misled into believing they're entitled to have anything they want for free, simply because they want it.

My philosophy on MMORPGs:

Leveling is what happens while you're playing the rest of the game.

Don't worry about levels. Just play.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15106

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/30/13 7:49:18 AM#18
Originally posted by nerovipus32
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8525

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

11/30/13 7:54:06 AM#19

subscription, with no item shop is the way to go for MMO´s..  and several expansion packs over time

 

It gives developers a steady income..

It gives players controll over their billing..

 

And gameplay wise... everything need in game is supported by the game and the econnomy and the crafting community..

 

 

Best system works around both ways, and if you can not miss $12 a month, you probably would be better off finding a 2nd job instead of playing games.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  nerovipus32

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2697

11/30/13 7:56:07 AM#20
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by nerovipus32
How is paying one way better than another? Some gamers are so brainwashed by the subscription model they some how think it makes for a better game. A game is good or bad regardless of the payment model.

I have no delusion that it makes for a better game. Yet it can make for a better service experience IMO as one price buys me all there is to buy. I prefer that over a cash shop and piecemeal services.

Some people like a choice when they buy, i don't like raiding but with a subscription i am forced to pay for the few that do. Every month my sub will go to new raids that i won't do.

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