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Shroud of the Avatar

Shroud of the Avatar 

General Discussion  » SotA Combat Revealed!

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59 posts found
  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

11/27/13 8:51:42 PM#21

Wait wait wait... What did I just watch? I am not entirely well versed in SotA specifics, so if someone could help me out, please feel free.

Why exactly is the skill placement randomized? I don't get it. Like, I can't conceive of the reasoning behind it. Perhaps I am overlooking a key element that will make it clear to me.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 705

11/27/13 9:37:06 PM#22

Almost ALL hope lost for this game.

 

1) Core features (mainly housing) being auctioned off to highest bidders

2) #1 getting worse with more and more pay-to-win items being added

3) Skill system doesn't level the skills you are actually using

4) Now this? Combat is not skill-based but card-based -- are you freaking kidding me??

 

As far as I'm concerned the project has totally derailed. Don't know if it's even worth the effort to try to get my money back.

  underthebridge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/13
Posts: 7

11/27/13 9:37:30 PM#23

I am starting to lose faith in this game.

Richard Garriott is trying to make this game an old-school RPG, like cards being dealt in a table top RPG game.

What the devs fail to realize is that this system is mostly a luck-based one, NOT skill-based... it will never bode well with players in a video game, especially when it comes to PVP.

 

Oh well, I guess there's other MMO's to look forward to.

  superconducting

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/21/13
Posts: 705

11/28/13 12:22:49 AM#24
Originally posted by Aragon100

Remove cards!!! How can anyone in his right mind believe looking at cards will give you any PvP flow, just amazing. UO was not complicated to play but to play it as well as the really skilled veterans could take a year of training.

It is important they create a fun and skillbased PvP system, not a system where a lucky cards do the difference. 

UO was standard and if they would announce a system exactly like UO with full loot and hardcore consequences and risk they would have had twice the pledgers by now, at least.

Couldn't agree more.

 

And they still wonder why the fundraising barely inches up a few bucks per month, while Star Citizen raises a million a week.

Hmmmm, maybe quintupling the size of the cash shop over the last few months with predominantly p2w items wasn't the answer?

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

11/28/13 1:02:15 AM#25
Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by GungaDin

Instead of bashing the system, could you give some advice? Do you prefer a combat system like GW2?  WOW? 

Do you need a complicated combat system or something simple as to not disrupt the flow of combat?

How important is it to create a unique combat system?

Would you prefer a standard system and just get on with the rest of the game or do you need some new type of combat system to draw you in?

******This system is not set in stone, it can be changed*********

Make it exactly like oldschool UO was, pre Age of Shadows. Timed drops, no buttonbashing and definetly no lucky random cards involved, it was all skill. That was the system RG created a long time ago and i have to say he havent evolved. I dont even believe RG himself really understood how good and skillbased  the UO combat was. Some developers of SotA even call old UO  a buttonsmashing PvP which tell me how incredibly ignorant of UO they are.

Remove cards!!! How can anyone in his right mind believe looking at cards will give you any PvP flow, just amazing. UO was not complicated to play but to play it as well as the really skilled veterans could take a year of training.

It is important they create a fun and skillbased PvP system, not a system where a lucky cards do the difference. 

UO was standard and if they would announce a system exactly like UO with full loot and hardcore consequences and risk they would have had twice the pledgers by now, at least.

 

 

RG did not design the combat in UO. Raph Koster did.

 

  underthebridge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/13
Posts: 7

11/28/13 10:35:35 AM#26
Originally posted by Bilgato

A few months til the combat tests, we should unify on this if the system is not good and stay unified to put pressure on them instead of everyone complaining seperately off-site or on. 

People who are primarily intrested in PvE and PvP will be the ones who matter in this (crafters don't count) and nobody will listen to a bunch of scattered complainers.

 

 

With you 100% on this.

I doubt anyone would continue playing SotA once they find out that combat has little human skill involved, but rather is dependent on a game of chance. How fun is that? And SotA team say they are creating a game for us players??

Well,  We need to speak up! If we sit back and do nothing, it will become another failed mmo.... We've seen it all before-- game that has promising innovative ideas but tries to reinvent the wheel too much.

 

What we should all do is come to some general agreement on how the combat system should or should not be. There seems to at least be a consensus here that randomly dealt skills is a NO-NO... so that will be our starting point. While we may differ on smaller details, we want to keep the message clear and unified.

Then at some point we should all gather and post our opinions on their forum, maybe on a new thread or poll or something. Unlike scattered people, they will listen to a large-scale backlash from the community. I don't know what's going on in the minds of the devs, but my thought is that they are getting mostly positive feedback from Ex-UO diehard fans and blindsighted followers who invested hundreds of dollars, so they don't have much of a clue.

  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

11/28/13 11:37:21 AM#27
Originally posted by underthebridge
Originally posted by Bilgato

A few months til the combat tests, we should unify on this if the system is not good and stay unified to put pressure on them instead of everyone complaining seperately off-site or on. 

People who are primarily intrested in PvE and PvP will be the ones who matter in this (crafters don't count) and nobody will listen to a bunch of scattered complainers.

 

 

With you 100% on this.

I doubt anyone would continue playing SotA once they find out that combat has little human skill involved, but rather is dependent on a game of chance. How fun is that? And SotA team say they are creating a game for us players??

Well,  We need to speak up! If we sit back and do nothing, it will become another failed mmo.... We've seen it all before-- game that has promising innovative ideas but tries to reinvent the wheel too much.

 

What we should all do is come to some general agreement on how the combat system should or should not be. There seems to at least be a consensus here that randomly dealt skills is a NO-NO... so that will be our starting point. While we may differ on smaller details, we want to keep the message clear and unified.

Then at some point we should all gather and post our opinions on their forum, maybe on a new thread or poll or something. Unlike scattered people, they will listen to a large-scale backlash from the community. I don't know what's going on in the minds of the devs, but my thought is that they are getting mostly positive feedback from Ex-UO diehard fans and blindsighted followers who invested hundreds of dollars, so they don't have much of a clue.

 

Good ideas, though reaching anything resembling a consensus will be tough. I think picking your battles (i.e. concentrating on NOT wanting card randomization) is a good idea. The less specific you are about what you want in its place the better, as being too specific here could undermine the effect of a unified front given the presumably widely varying views in regard to what players think should exactly happen. Good luck! This is kinda depressing. I am not invested, but I hate seeing a dedicated fan base get so discouraged... and there is certainly time to fix this.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

11/28/13 11:48:28 AM#28

The video isn't working. Is it deck based like Wizard101? That really isn't my sort of thing, although it was okay in that game.

I prefer more traditional combat styles either tab-target/rng or action.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1163

11/28/13 12:10:41 PM#29
Originally posted by underthebridge

I am starting to lose faith in this game.

Richard Garriott is trying to make this game an old-school RPG, like cards being dealt in a table top RPG game.

I don't know which tabletop RPGs  you played but I've never seen one that involved cards being dealt. I like tabletop RPG combat actually far better than twitch based systems but this SotA system does sound kind of lame. Random placement of skills? WTF?

 

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5151

11/28/13 12:27:48 PM#30
I am all for innovative ways of doing combat - but this is just ludicrous.
  golden.radish

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/13
Posts: 12

 
OP  11/28/13 1:00:10 PM#31
Originally posted by Torvaldr

The video isn't working. Is it deck based like Wizard101? That really isn't my sort of thing, although it was okay in that game.

I prefer more traditional combat styles either tab-target/rng or action.

Try this link, Torvaldr. (The first post video didn't... work, for whatever reason)
  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

11/28/13 1:21:20 PM#32
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by underthebridge

I am starting to lose faith in this game.

Richard Garriott is trying to make this game an old-school RPG, like cards being dealt in a table top RPG game.

I don't know which tabletop RPGs  you played but I've never seen one that involved cards being dealt. I like tabletop RPG combat actually far better than twitch based systems but this SotA system does sound kind of lame. Random placement of skills? WTF?

 

If you are into tabletop rpgs, Castle Falkenstein is a quality product that uses regular playing cards in place of dice. It's actually a pretty creative and fun system. Cool low-tech Victorian steampunk theme with great lore that is very rich in RP focus.

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5671

11/28/13 1:21:25 PM#33

Thanks for the link. It does look a lot like Wizard101 which like I said isn't really my thing. That kind of combat isn't horrible, just not what I like out of an rpg.

I'm older and grew up on D&D and DIKU style gaming. To me rpg is about learning skills and becoming better or more powerful. I don't really care if those are opened up via levels, skills points, skill wheels, trait lines, etc. That stuff is all game implementation dependent. However, when I do learn a skill I expect it to be available full time, not randomly pop up. I'm not talking about unavailability due to cooldowns or situational availability. I'm talking about a skill I know being unavailable until it pops up in my deck queue. I'm talking about pre-planning skill queue availability. That is what I don't like about deck-based combat in an rpg.

So I can't say that the system as deck-based combat looked poorly implemented. It looked fine. I can say that it doesn't appeal to me in the least and as much as I love having non-combat stuff do to, my D&D/DIKU origins love to hack-n-slash. Combat style is very important to me.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  underthebridge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/13
Posts: 7

11/28/13 1:24:17 PM#34
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by underthebridge

I am starting to lose faith in this game.

Richard Garriott is trying to make this game an old-school RPG, like cards being dealt in a table top RPG game.

I don't know which tabletop RPGs  you played but I've never seen one that involved cards being dealt. I like tabletop RPG combat actually far better than twitch based systems but this SotA system does sound kind of lame. Random placement of skills? WTF?

 

??

Maybe you should watch Magic: the gathering being played on youtube:

http://youtu.be/Za_8ZkadHCw?t=18m54s

  strawhat0981

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/13/13
Posts: 528

I want an awesome sci-fi game that is a sandbox...give it to me!!!!

11/28/13 1:30:44 PM#35
The only way I can think of talking about the combat is saying it looks weak.
  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1163

11/28/13 1:31:35 PM#36
Originally posted by underthebridge
 

??

Maybe you should watch Magic: the gathering being played on youtube:

http://youtu.be/Za_8ZkadHCw?t=18m54s

I've seen it. That's not an RPG though.

 

  PerfArt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/13
Posts: 864

11/28/13 1:32:34 PM#37
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Thanks for the link. It does look a lot like Wizard101 which like I said isn't really my thing. That kind of combat isn't horrible, just not what I like out of an rpg.

I'm older and grew up on D&D and DIKU style gaming. To me rpg is about learning skills and becoming better or more powerful. I don't really care if those are opened up via levels, skills points, skill wheels, trait lines, etc. That stuff is all game implementation dependent. However, when I do learn a skill I expect it to be available full time, not randomly pop up. I'm not talking about unavailability due to cooldowns or situational availability. I'm talking about a skill I know being unavailable until it pops up in my deck queue. I'm talking about pre-planning skill queue availability. That is what I don't like about deck-based combat in an rpg.

So I can't say that the system as deck-based combat looked poorly implemented. It looked fine. I can say that it doesn't appeal to me in the least and as much as I love having non-combat stuff do to, my D&D/DIKU origins love to hack-n-slash. Combat style is very important to me.

Agreed. Less subjectively, I just can't see the upside in making a mini-game out of choosing a skill to use. It provides nothing mechanically that enhances gameplay, at least on paper.

Now, if they are planning on building other gameplay systems around said mechanic that somehow make it relevant and/or engaging, there is a possibility it could work, I suppose. I just can't imagine what they would be...

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/PerfArt

  underthebridge

Novice Member

Joined: 11/02/13
Posts: 7

11/28/13 1:43:04 PM#38
Originally posted by iridescence
Originally posted by underthebridge
 

??

Maybe you should watch Magic: the gathering being played on youtube:

http://youtu.be/Za_8ZkadHCw?t=18m54s

I've seen it. That's not an RPG though.

 

OK yes technically you're right Magic is not an RPG,  whatever it doesn't matter... you get what I'm saying.

Copying elements from a table card game onto a 3d computer game is not necessarily a good idea.

  Mandible

Novice Member

Joined: 9/04/04
Posts: 13

1/19/14 6:43:48 PM#39
Can't find this combat video anywhere. All these links are to the 6 month progress video and I don't see any card game. ...... What am I missing here ? Can't even search YouTube and find it. 
  Jupsto

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 2107

1/19/14 7:00:19 PM#40

dat awful snailspace autoattack combat system.

still I won't write it off completely until its done.

My blog:

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