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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Why No HD Remakes?

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83 posts found
  Karahandras

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/08
Posts: 1664

All it takes for evil to succeed is for the good to stand by and do nothing

11/23/13 11:44:50 AM#61
Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

There's a much MUCH larger issue here.

 

A big reason even veterans don't play those games anymore is because the core of what made them good is long gone.

If an HD remake came about, would it be the current live version of the game, but with better graphics? If so, I would NOT play.

I wouldn't play SWG, because we'd be playing the NGE version.

I wouldn't play DAoC, because that stopped being great in 2003.

I wouldn't play UO, because it barely resembles the game it used to be.

The only one I MIGHT play, is Asheron's Call.

.  Also it won't be just the graphics that need a bit of an overhaul, things like the ui will need to be looked at aswell and that can be slippery slope to start on.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12222

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

11/23/13 1:01:20 PM#62
Originally posted by Sassy_Gay_Unicorn
Very well written and thought provoking read! I would visit the original Norrath again if it got a graphics overhaul for the novelty if nothing else.

That many people would visit for the novelty is a given. The real question is how many would actually stay, as that is what really determines whether such an overhaul would be worth the investment in it.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6731

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

11/23/13 1:30:12 PM#63

The answer is simple>>>GREED.

I never realized just how greedy developers are until i started to notice how bugs and quests would be left broken for weeks,months and yes years.

I was part of that crowd that simply loved FFXI,but everyone wanted a nicer shinier version,NOT a new game.Square wanted no part of a new texture pack claiming first,can't be done,then too costly.This is how the whole FFXIV debacle started,they figured if they rush out a somewhat similar FFXI but with better graphics it would make them rich....wrong.

It doesn't help when so many devs are former Blizzard devs,the leader of selling old tech and ugly and/or cheap graphics.

I commend any developer that does it RIGHT,they get huge bonus points in my book,but don't expect it to happen too often.

What i actually EXPECT if a developer cares at all,is for devs to make a low end version and an updated HD/high end version and/or a version that can be easily scaled.Instead what are we seeing absolutely horrible effort by developers,not only low budget graphics but nothing that scales up to suit those that might want to enjoy pushing their high end machines or looking at nicer graphics.

EVERYONE likes nice looking,nobody goes out in real life and says "I want the ugliest chick  or guy on the planet" or" i want  a car that looks god awful" or i want the ugliest looking pants money can buy,it doesn't happen.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Wizardry

Elite Member

Joined: 8/27/04
Posts: 6731

Perhaps tomorrow will be better.

11/23/13 1:37:33 PM#64
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
I would definitely play an updated and optimized vanilla EQ or WOW. Unfortunately EQNext will not be this and Blizzard is moving Titan to something comepletely different.

I would have accepted Wow with better graphics but ONLY if the hand holding was also tossed out the window.

As for Titan,we will get to see the true face of Blizzard and if they have learned to care about their  games and integrity as a developer.They licensed  a quality game engine for Titan,something Blizzard is not used to doing.In my eyes i cannot see another crap looking game,why would they license a better game engine and still put out the same old crap ,would make no sense.

So we will wait and see if Blizzard is finally ready to put some FULL quality effort into Titan or more of the same old,cartoon graphic syndrome.

NOBODY and i mean nobody can use that lame excuse game play>graphics,i pay for a triple A game,i want a triple A game,that means COMPLETE,not just graphics or just game play or just social,i want a complete package as a triple A developer should be doing.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w
Samoan Diamond

  Tibernicuspa

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/03/13
Posts: 986

11/23/13 2:33:50 PM#65
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by Pigglesworth
I would definitely play an updated and optimized vanilla EQ or WOW. Unfortunately EQNext will not be this and Blizzard is moving Titan to something comepletely different.

I would have accepted Wow with better graphics but ONLY if the hand holding was also tossed out the window.

But WoW has always been about the handholding. It was the most casual, solo player centric and linear  MMO on the market when it launched.

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

11/23/13 4:03:05 PM#66

Not really fond of saying this, but that rather was a badly written article as it presented a lot of conjecture and no valid support.

 

I mean you have  picture of DAoC on that article and you mention it at the end, but fail to note the fact that it's the one MMO that's gone through the biggest notable face lift so far?

 

You have Entropia which went through an engine and asset upgrade as well.

 

It doesn't examine either the issues with, details of, nor cost for rebuilding a game's engine or assets.

 

APB:Reloaded is working on updating it's engine to Unreal 3.5 for example. Not trying to rebuild all the aseets or anything else, and they already launched on a version of the Unreal 3 engine.

It's still a costly endeavor though simply because, while there's a large amount of assets that can simply port over, there's a lot of code that still ends up having to be rewritten, and some aspects of the assets probably needs to be rebuilt due to tweaks and changes in the updated engine.

 

Doing a HD version of a game can circumstantially scale from an asset pack update to an almost complete rewrite that's essentially going through the entire production process all over again. Even a resolution upgrade to an old game might not be practical because the engine just can't perform. An entirely new engine, while powerful, also means that there may be tons of foreign aspects that have to be rebuilt to be compatible.

 

It's got a lot to do with what the original engine was capable of versus what's trying to be implemented.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  mysticaluna

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 251

11/24/13 3:53:20 AM#67

Yeah, I wish we could have updated Everquest 1 then it would almost be what Vanguard could have been with more developers and money. 

Star Wars Galaxies should be remade with the budget of Star Wars ToR. The game basic design mechanics were fun, it just needed some more moolah and a lot of technology to get rid of bugs/glitches... more developer time... 

Why can't we get Everquest 3 , the true successor to EQ1? 

Or, failing that, can we at least get a graphical hi definition remake to EQ1 now that it has had 20 expansions. Shadows of Luclin was very long ago, I remember how awesome everything looked back then, however, time passes, and now several years ago its badly dated again. 

It would be a lot of work, and people are spoiled with all these good brand new games anyway. Yet, one can always dream, alas... 

  mysticaluna

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/11/11
Posts: 251

11/24/13 3:55:35 AM#68

Everquest Next is basically supposedly better wow graphics, just hopefully it will have very in-depth sandbox gameplay. 

Let us all pray for challenge and group heroic quests, instead of a boring dead deserted land full of endless solo content!! Where everyone hangs out in instances, and you barely ever run across anyone!! Lol ) . 

 

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5538

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

11/24/13 5:01:18 AM#69
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Rusque
 

This is impossible. I literally don't know a single person (regardless of age) who doesn't know what HD is.

lol. well now you know two. Well, we NOW know what it means.

But "yeah" never saw that in relation to video games before.

Though, come to think of it, someone to wipe the drool and replace my bib would probably makes sense.

Although ive always known what "HD remake" meant, every time i see HD (without the remake) i always think of Hard Drive first and then High Definition.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4774

11/24/13 5:05:46 AM#70
Originally posted by Wizardry

 

EVERYONE likes nice looking,nobody goes out in real life and says "I want the ugliest chick  or guy on the planet" or" i want  a car that looks god awful" or i want the ugliest looking pants money can buy,it doesn't happen.

 

 

 

Nope...never happens.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  giggal

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/25/04
Posts: 117

11/24/13 5:30:22 AM#71

the issue isn't just around graphics, we all hold nostalgic memories for games long gone. But in some instances going back to those games even if they had a complete graphic overhaul is a let down.

Some very early decisions in dark age of Camelot led it down a path of no return. Now people will cite trials of Atlantis as the reason why the game started to fail. but in reality it wasn't the farming for hours for artefacts and scrolls or the even retarded levelling process for those artefacts.

 

Most players had done everything in their realms killed the dragon cleared the dungeons done the epic runs. and the game was no longer epic PVP turned into a grind of running into the same people over and over. Power guilds would form hog the game for a couple of weeks then disappear.

 

Dark age of Camelot went through a lot of graphical transitions they updated the engine a few times but they couldn't do very much with the "classic" aka vanilla zones because every rock tree slope had to be compatible across the spectrum of gamers.

NOw I think I understand what the feature was about. What he really means is instead of buffing up the game and saying "hey here is a new engine and graphics" instead doing a rerelease of that MMO with new graphics all those nigly release day bugs gone and certain decisions removed.

 

The problem is that's a lot of investment for a game that may only have a few thousand players still playing the old game. I do remember mythic saying they would release a "vanilla" game version but they never did too many versions of the game can end up diluting the remaining populations.

 

Some games maybe could benefit from a HD overhaul or a complete remake but some of those very games went the way of the dinosaur not due to being poor visually but by being poor with design decisions or even with content.

 

 

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19065

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/24/13 9:23:56 AM#72
Originally posted by Wizardry

EVERYONE likes nice looking,nobody goes out in real life and says "I want the ugliest chick  or guy on the planet" or" i want  a car that looks god awful" or i want the ugliest looking pants money can buy,it doesn't happen.

 

While everyone would like to wear Armani suits, date super model looking women, and drive a Ferrari most people also learn that there are other important factors that come into play in each of these and usually end up being realistic  and settling for something less than the ideal.

Same thing with MMORPG graphics, for a number of good reasons developers either can't or intentionally don't chose to focus on delivering the best possible, and other factors such as game play really are more important at the end of the day.

WOW taught the industry one big lesson, if you want to make the most money, make sure your graphics will run on the broadest, lowest common denominator of hardware out there currently.

I recall in 2004 when WOW launched, it would play on my work laptop and it's built in, cheap as possible graphic adaptor.  Contrast that with Vanguard or almost any of the earlier titles where I had to purchase a fairly expensive video card just to play them. (DAOC in the early days would only promise to run on about 10 tested video cards, and I went out and had to buy one in order to play it properly)

At the end of the day, you really can't have it all, no matter how much you want it to be that way. Always compromises that need to be made and a decision on whether or not they were worth it or not.

 

 

 

"Someone once told me, there is always someone more powerful than you." - Nicola [Bunraku]
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Rusque

Elite Member

Joined: 6/08/10
Posts: 1711

11/24/13 9:35:21 AM#73
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Rusque
 

This is impossible. I literally don't know a single person (regardless of age) who doesn't know what HD is.

lol. well now you know two. Well, we NOW know what it means.

But "yeah" never saw that in relation to video games before.

Though, come to think of it, someone to wipe the drool and replace my bib would probably makes sense.

Although ive always known what "HD remake" meant, every time i see HD (without the remake) i always think of Hard Drive first and then High Definition.

But Hard Drive is not HD. It's HDD and always has been. Because it's Hard Disk Drive not Hard Drive. Hard Drive is just short for the full term.

  General-Zod

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 557

Kneel.

11/24/13 12:36:49 PM#74
Originally posted by Quizzical

If you want a game to toss out its art assets and redo them to all be much higher quality than the originals, you might well be asking them to spend more on some graphical upgrades than it cost to make the original game.

It's also not entirely clear what you mean by "HD".  Support for a higher monitor resolution (the usual meaning of, say, an HD television) is fairly trivial and probably already implemented in many games.  Higher texture resolutions or higher vertex counts in artwork could easily bring a massive expense if the company didn't use higher quality models and then map things down.  And if a company does have high resolution textures laying around, why didn't they offer them as a graphical option years ago?

This.

I dont normally get caught up in semantics but "HD remake" is a horrible way to communicate "Graphic overhaul". Im not surprised that few posters didnt understand the reference.

Also stated earlier giving a classic mmo like DaoC, lets say "Guild wars 2 graphics" would cost 30 million + when the cost of Daoc and its entirety was only around 2 million.

 

  greenstoned

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/12/11
Posts: 20

11/24/13 12:44:38 PM#75

id play anarchy online even without a graphic revamp if only there was enough ppl left on it  ive been hearing about the remake since like 2007 so i dont even expect it to happen anymore but it would be a grand game once again.

 

today's mmo have been so dumbed down they are plain boring or get there very quickly, ive been wanting a game with proper depth for a while now

  jbombard

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/06/08
Posts: 464

11/24/13 7:13:04 PM#76

The reason people don't do it is because the bean counters estimate that the amount of increased revenue from a graphics overhaul would not offset the massive costs such an overhaul would incur.  That is all.  If the bean  counters thought there was money in it, they would do it, plain and simple.

 

Also I laughed at the statement about reinstalling old games that went F2P because of the "increased profile".  LMAO.  It doesn't have anything to do with the increased profile, if you were talking about new subs maybe.  People that have already played the game don't care about the "increased profile", they care that even though the game wasn't worth $15 a month they played it because they liked it and free is a pretty appealing price point for something they used to like.  That said even though I have a lifetime membership for LotRO, the game puts me sleep and leveling takes far too much time to hold my interest.  AoC turned me off with their F2P model, and I just can't be assed to log in despite still having it installed.

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1084

11/24/13 11:32:06 PM#77

This is a fannish fantasy, without grounding in the actual costs and benefits of re-working things factored in.   Games have to accurately fit their production costs to their fan base.  Or else they crater, and at  best, just limp along.

 

 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5244

11/25/13 3:24:26 AM#78
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Wizardry

EVERYONE likes nice looking,nobody goes out in real life and says "I want the ugliest chick  or guy on the planet" or" i want  a car that looks god awful" or i want the ugliest looking pants money can buy,it doesn't happen.

 

While everyone would like to wear Armani suits, date super model looking women, and drive a Ferrari most people also learn that there are other important factors that come into play in each of these and usually end up being realistic  and settling for something less than the ideal.

Same thing with MMORPG graphics, for a number of good reasons developers either can't or intentionally don't chose to focus on delivering the best possible, and other factors such as game play really are more important at the end of the day.

WOW taught the industry one big lesson, if you want to make the most money, make sure your graphics will run on the broadest, lowest common denominator of hardware out there currently.

I recall in 2004 when WOW launched, it would play on my work laptop and it's built in, cheap as possible graphic adaptor.  Contrast that with Vanguard or almost any of the earlier titles where I had to purchase a fairly expensive video card just to play them. (DAOC in the early days would only promise to run on about 10 tested video cards, and I went out and had to buy one in order to play it properly)

At the end of the day, you really can't have it all, no matter how much you want it to be that way. Always compromises that need to be made and a decision on whether or not they were worth it or not.

 

I could always lend you an Armani suit or my Ferrari for the night. Fixing you up with a super model would depend on how convincingly you can say "Because your worth it." :)

 

  Haites

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/24/13
Posts: 70

11/25/13 12:59:48 PM#79

The reason that there are no HD remakes is simple, the companies don't want to invest any money in a product that they already making money on.  If they aren't making money they'd rather shut down servers and create silly gimmicks like "F2P" then reinvent themselves.

EQ taught us many lessons about MMO's, and those lessons were incredibly crucial in the success that we saw from Vanilla WoW.  Graphics, while important, turn out more often than not to be a barrier to entry for many people.  People don't want to necessarily have to buy a new computer every time an expansion comes out.  Gameplay and community trump all, and until developers re-learn that lesson, we will continue to see "clones" of present-day WoW (an abomination of itself) that will be boring, uninspired, and forgettable.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

11/25/13 1:05:04 PM#80


Originally posted by Haites
The reason that there are no HD remakes is simple, the companies don't want to invest any money in a product that they already making money on.  If they aren't making money they'd rather shut down servers and create silly gimmicks like "F2P" then reinvent themselves.

EQ taught us many lessons about MMO's, and those lessons were incredibly crucial in the success that we saw from Vanilla WoW.  Graphics, while important, turn out more often than not to be a barrier to entry for many people.  People don't want to necessarily have to buy a new computer every time an expansion comes out.  Gameplay and community trump all, and until developers re-learn that lesson, we will continue to see "clones" of present-day WoW (an abomination of itself) that will be boring, uninspired, and forgettable.




I would think it has as much to do with players wanting something new, and just adding new graphics isn't enough "new" to sell to players. Existing players would love a revamp, and some new people would try it out, but would they get enough people to justify the cost of writing a brand new engine that works with the existing game engine? Seems to me the answer is, "No".

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

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