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News & Features Discussion  » EverQuest Next: Latest Roundtable Discusses Fast Travel

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54 posts found
  Halldor

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/12
Posts: 11

11/06/13 4:53:22 AM#21
Originally posted by Ridrith
It's not going to be there easy.  You have to actually explore before you can use the system.  So I still don't see why people are whining.

 

'cause they have fear this will come like GW2: You can discover a waypoint, but a couple steps away from it, you can discover another one, and that feels like... "dafuq? Why there is another waypoint here, if a kilometer ago there was ANOTHER one? Is the world so small or what the hell?"

  SavageHorizon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1551

11/06/13 4:54:20 AM#22
Originally posted by Deadlyne
I kinda wonder what he meant about it not being instantaneous travel.  Does that mean a griffon system, rails or some such that you passively ride on.  I hope that isn't the case.  I find those very boring.  I personally prefer the style of ride your horse or walk unless a wizard or druid wants to port you.  But, I'd rather take instant teleportation nodes before clicking on a griffon and walking away from my computer for 5 minutes.
 

They should follow the Vanguard system before the way shrines were put in. You hire a flying/land mount which had a ten min timer but it was fully controllable it was not a passive mount.

Once your ten mins was over you were demounted and floated down to the ground. Flying over open air dungeons will get you demounted now which wasn't the case in the early days.

With the world being so vast you needed a mount early in the game unless you were a bard.

As you can see from the vid 

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  Ridrith

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/11/08
Posts: 295

11/06/13 4:57:03 AM#23

Despite all of the way points GW2s world never really felt all that small to me, WPs all over the place don't really bother me that much either.  I just don't see how/why they'd bother anybody to begin with.  If you don't want to use the system don't use it...  It's just that easy.  When it comes to the world seeming small, if it's not who cares?  Having more WPs are good because that allows you to find your friends that much faster and easier.  That's what MMOs are about.  Playing with others and enjoying the game with your clan mates and friends.

  apocoluster

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/15/07
Posts: 1295

\m/,

11/06/13 5:39:05 AM#24
Originally posted by Zajjar
HE speaks like, urll never grp with ur mates if u dont got fast travel, seriously.... these people... once u start the journey toward ur mate in " halas or where ever... urll eventually get there, WE DONT NEED fast travel at low lvl. ITS borring and feels like a themepark

You do have to walk it the first time....and when it's implemented nobody forces you to use.  Fee Free to walk to your hearts content. 

No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  bingbongbros

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 572

11/06/13 6:21:26 AM#25

I'm over EQN. It is going to be a updated version of all the bullshit we have on the market already and what EQ2 is.  They have ignored all community feedback on their pointless round tables and go forward with what "they" think is best.  Which SOE has proven in the past to be completely wrong.

EQN will be a huge let down for anyone hoping to have any sort of semblance to anything Everquest.

I now hate SOE again.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  ishist

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/06
Posts: 137

11/06/13 6:27:14 AM#26

Ask most veteran EQ players when EQ started to go wrong and most will likely say either Shadows of Luclin or Planes of Power. That's when EQ1 began its gradual pussification. All of a sudden, all the dangerous zones to travel through were made inconsequential. Why worry about having to cross Kithicor during the night when you could just pop into PoK and instantly port wherever in the world you wanted?

Once you give people the ability to bypass your content it's only a short hop to hubs and rails.

Yes, I realize they claim you have to explore to find the fast travel hubs, but we all know that'll only last a year tops before the whiny little bitches get that requirement removed as well.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

  bingbongbros

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/21/10
Posts: 572

11/06/13 6:43:14 AM#27
Originally posted by ishist

Ask most veteran EQ players when EQ started to go wrong and most will likely say either Shadows of Luclin or Planes of Power. That's when EQ1 began its gradual pussification. All of a sudden, all the dangerous zones to travel through were made inconsequential. Why worry about having to cross Kithicor during the night when you could just pop into PoK and instantly port wherever in the world you wanted?

Once you give people the ability to bypass your content it's only a short hop to hubs and rails.

Yes, I realize they claim you have to explore to find the fast travel hubs, but we all know that'll only last a year tops before the whiny little bitches get that requirement removed as well.

 

Agreed.  SOE really started gutting the game for what it originally was, in turn for a non stop raid treadmill/instance grind.  I lost a piece of my soul when they gutted the commonlands trade tunnel for a npc bazaar of afkers and bots.

 

EQn is going to be a generic GW2 rip off melded with minecraft.  SOE claimed to be "all about the players and community" "help us build the game!".  Psssh, yeah right.

Playing: Smite
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO
Waiting On: Nothing really, though Black Desert looks pretty amazing so far.

  Storm_Cloud

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 296

11/06/13 7:08:37 AM#28
Originally posted by ishist

Ask most veteran EQ players when EQ started to go wrong and most will likely say either Shadows of Luclin or Planes of Power. That's when EQ1 began its gradual pussification. All of a sudden, all the dangerous zones to travel through were made inconsequential. Why worry about having to cross Kithicor during the night when you could just pop into PoK and instantly port wherever in the world you wanted?

Once you give people the ability to bypass your content it's only a short hop to hubs and rails.

Yes, I realize they claim you have to explore to find the fast travel hubs, but we all know that'll only last a year tops before the whiny little bitches get that requirement removed as well.

This is the truth!

That's all folks... Moving on!

 

  TangentPoint

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1104

The "Real Game" begins at character creation.

11/06/13 7:16:19 AM#29
Originally posted by Ridrith

I love how people are whining about how the supposed 'now' crowd are the people asking for no class restrictions and waypoints.  Really?  I think those are good mechanics and I've played almost every MMO under the sun.  I played EQ for two years, WoW for 7, EQ 2 for 4...  Let's not even get started on a majority of the other games.  Fast travel and having no class restrictions are good systems to have in place.  Not everybody wants to ride across the vast world every time they want to meet up with a friend.  You're not required to use the waypoints.  If you feel that it's going to take away from your experience don't use them.  Simple as that.  Same with the class/races.  If you don't think that a gnome for example should be a warrior, don't ever make one.

Neckbeardia calls to its people.  They're coming out in droves.

Not simple as that.

That argument, "if you don't like it, don't use it!", comes up every time this particular topic is discussed/debated. 

It sounds wonderful in theory... "Play however you like!"

The problem is, that "wonderful theory" is quickly crushed by the reality of, "People are going to want you to use fast travel, leaving you the option of: "use fast travel, or be ditched and left behind".

Humans, by nature, will very often take the path of least resistance (depending on their goals, anyway). And it very much is about the "now" crowd. They're the ones demanding everyone fast travel, everyone skip quest dialog, cut-scenes, skip trash mobs and speed-run through dungeons. They're the ones demanding leveling be faster, rare items be easier to obtain, etc. That's the "Now" crowd by definition. And that's the crowd of people who are largely playing these games nowadays.

So, you can scoff and dismiss it all you like, the fact is.. the "Now Crowd" is quite real, quite present, very impatient, and extremely vocal about it. 

Just go check out the forums for FFXIV:ARR, particularly the official forums. There seems to be at least one new thread started, almost daily, with people doing one of two things:

1. Asking others to stop trying to rush them through cut-scenes and telling them to "watch them later", so they can have their speed run.

2. Complaining about others "being inconsiderate" by watching cut-scenes instead of "watching them later", because they "just want to get the content over with and move on to the next". 

That "now now now" attitude is pervasive throughout MMOs these days, bleeding over into every aspect - including travel. People are freaking impatient and require constant gratification to keep them interested. If they have to wait more than 5 minutes for someone to travel to them, they're gonna be freaking out; and yes I've seen this happen many times.

I've seen someone DC while in a group - something out of their control - and the leader barely waited 30 seconds before saying "Okay, I've given them long enough, I'm replacing them with someone in my guild". Folks, including myself, protested and said to give them time. They refused. "I want to get this over with", they said. Moments later, the replacement was in-group. The person who DC'd came back in about half a minute after that, to find they'd been replaced. When they were (understandably) frustrated about this, the party leader said "Find less sucky internet. I don't have all night to wait for you".  The person had been offline for barely 1.5 minutes. Sad thing is, that's not the only time I've seen that happen. Scenarios like that are not rare.

So, saying "well, if you don't like fast travel, don't use it" is as good as saying "You may as well count on playing solo, because very few people are going to want to wait up for you". 

Now, the usual follow-up to that is, "well, then play with people you know don't like fast travel either". Again, sounds great on paper, but there are problems with that as well:

1. Easier said than done. Everyone you know with the same playstyle is not going to be online at the same, leaving you to either play solo or "fast travel" so the group you do get doesn't ditch you.

2. Sticking to a small, core group of people completely undermines one of the greatest aspects of playing a MMO: The ability to play with any of thousands of people, located all around the world. If you're going to limit yourself to a relative handful of people, you may as well just play a damn co-op game. 

Developers are consistently trying to reduce MMOs from being the vast, epic adventures they once were, down to Facebook style "bite-sized" nibblets of content. This obsession over "fast travel", "fast everything" is certainly helping to get it there.

You can't develop strong community in a MMO when people are too busy zipping around everywhere to actually build one.

Reminds me of this song. The chorus would be great advice for many gamers these days.

My philosophy on MMORPGs:

Leveling is what happens while you're playing the rest of the game.

Don't worry about levels. Just play.

  Ender4

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

11/06/13 7:44:07 AM#30


Originally posted by Ridrith
Having more WPs are good because that allows you to find your friends that much faster and easier.  That's what MMOs are about.  Playing with others and enjoying the game with your clan mates and friends.


I thought they were about playing an alternate personality in a fantasy world and being involved in a community that lives within that world. It is important to keep the feeling of a world and community and things like fast travel destroys that feeling. If my only goal is to just hop in and play with friends I'd probably enjoy the lobby games we keep getting, that isn't what I want. It isn't what MMORPG used to be about either.

I'm not looking to play a game, I am looking to experience a world. Eventually a developer will make that happen again.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 4720

11/06/13 7:44:16 AM#31

Its still pretty amusing to me that folks are clinging on to the idea that EQN will be anything like EQ1.

It won't.

EQN is targetting the largest market segment - casual gamers, again this should be no surprise to anyone.

 

  evilized

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/02/11
Posts: 493

11/06/13 9:21:25 AM#32
hopefully this will be something like the moongate system in UO or the wizard spires / druid rings in the original EQ. they get you to the zone/area but then you got a whoooole lot of running to do afterwards. 
  Temijin1

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/13
Posts: 12

11/06/13 9:26:57 AM#33

DAOC AND LOTR type of fast travel is a good compromise IMHO. Instant travel shrinks the world. 

 

I find it disturbing the the polls seem to be so often ignored.  Typically it's one or two people on the development team who's though proces is "ya polls are great....as long as they don't conflict with what MY vision is of the game".  Many times the poll was put up by members of the development team specifically to get input from the future CUSTOMERS to show the "visionary" they are wrong. The visionary's ego can't accept it and the poll gets ignored.

 

SOE needs to decide who their market is and build a game for them. It's called market segmentation. When you build a product to please too many people you run the risk of pleasing none of them. This is why players can point to "upgrades" to games that actually killed them.

An example of an updrade that started the death of a game for me was the Bazzar in EQ. The only way to sell was one on on with a live person at the beginning of the game. The tunnel in one of the Commonlads Zones spontaneously grew on my server as the place to go to sell or buy.. Friday and Saturday nights the place was packed and zone chat was full of offers to sell and requests to buy. It was like a farmers market and stock market rolled into one social experience. Crafters had regular customers and suppliers. Social networks were built and friends made outside of the guild. The Bazzar killed this player driven social experience and changed the nature of the game. With the Bazzar came the gold farmer industry and all it's problems.

 

The NOW crowd are the ones that will be leaving your game in droves and depopulating your servers in a year leaving them unsocial as there few left to group with. There are whole guilds of NOW folk who race to max level, crack the code of all end game content then start the bitching on the boards that there is nothing to do in the game.  Boom, the whole guild is off to the new game.

 
  Nurf3duk

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/13
Posts: 34

11/06/13 9:34:46 AM#34
Everquest pre SoL had a good travel system, if you wanted to travel by foot and take boats the option was there or you could find a friendly Wizard/Druid to port you for a tip and run 2-3 zones to get where you wished to be.
  Ender4

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

11/06/13 9:38:31 AM#35


Originally posted by Temijin1

I find it disturbing the the polls seem to be so often ignored.  Typically it's one or two people on the development team who's though proces is "ya polls are great....as long as they don't conflict with what MY vision is of the game".  Many times the poll was put up by members of the development team specifically to get input from the future CUSTOMERS to show the "visionary" they are wrong. The visionary's ego can't accept it and the poll gets ignored.

 


The polls are not the important part of the process, the discussions are. I already pointed it but you are wrong here. When they started the polling process for the race question they were leaning towards having racial restrictions, they said this quite clearly multiple times. It was through the discussion that they realized that racial restrictions weren't going to work and the developers changed their minds on the topic. If you really want your voice to be heard go to their discussion board and give your ideas. The poll is just something that is there to start the discussion, it is the least meaningful part of the process.


The poll should not and never will change their opinion on anything. The discussion should be able to and already HAS in one case changed their direction on something.

  ishist

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/06
Posts: 137

11/06/13 9:45:47 AM#36
Originally posted by Nurf3duk
Everquest pre SoL had a good travel system, if you wanted to travel by foot and take boats the option was there or you could find a friendly Wizard/Druid to port you for a tip and run 2-3 zones to get where you wished to be.

Imagine how many entertaining and fondly remembered experiences we would all be missing if nobody ever had to take the boats? The number of people who never got stuck in the middle of the ocean, praying to their gods that if they ran into a Seafury Cyclops they could find their corpse again, is certainly very low. 

Now keep remembering and imagining, because that's all we're gonna get. Memories. This new generation can't be bothered with things like "experiences".

Experiences get in the way of their lewts and mess up their carefully maintained parses.

Also, F**K this new generation.

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams

  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 616

11/06/13 11:40:35 AM#37
"People wanna crawl around" ? Really ? It's never ever good to make fun about your customers. Bad business style.
  Zajjar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/13
Posts: 47

11/06/13 4:27:22 PM#38
Originally posted by Temijin1

DAOC AND LOTR type of fast travel is a good compromise IMHO. Instant travel shrinks the world. 

 

I find it disturbing the the polls seem to be so often ignored.  Typically it's one or two people on the development team who's though proces is "ya polls are great....as long as they don't conflict with what MY vision is of the game".  Many times the poll was put up by members of the development team specifically to get input from the future CUSTOMERS to show the "visionary" they are wrong. The visionary's ego can't accept it and the poll gets ignored.

 

SOE needs to decide who their market is and build a game for them. It's called market segmentation. When you build a product to please too many people you run the risk of pleasing none of them. This is why players can point to "upgrades" to games that actually killed them.

An example of an updrade that started the death of a game for me was the Bazzar in EQ. The only way to sell was one on on with a live person at the beginning of the game. The tunnel in one of the Commonlads Zones spontaneously grew on my server as the place to go to sell or buy.. Friday and Saturday nights the place was packed and zone chat was full of offers to sell and requests to buy. It was like a farmers market and stock market rolled into one social experience. Crafters had regular customers and suppliers. Social networks were built and friends made outside of the guild. The Bazzar killed this player driven social experience and changed the nature of the game. With the Bazzar came the gold farmer industry and all it's problems.

 

The NOW crowd are the ones that will be leaving your game in droves and depopulating your servers in a year leaving them unsocial as there few left to group with. There are whole guilds of NOW folk who race to max level, crack the code of all end game content then start the bitching on the boards that there is nothing to do in the game.  Boom, the whole guild is off to the new game.

 

Sounds about right

  Zajjar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/13
Posts: 47

11/06/13 4:32:13 PM#39
ppl talk about new generation, BUT GUESS WHAT, we old mmo gamers ARE THE NEW next GEN, we are the ones leading the steps for the next players, so what we think and want, is what the next new gen what. BUT the game developers havent really payed attention, thats why every damn mmo out there has flobbed since bliz
  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15387

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

11/06/13 4:34:16 PM#40
Originally posted by apocoluster
Originally posted by Zajjar
HE speaks like, urll never grp with ur mates if u dont got fast travel, seriously.... these people... once u start the journey toward ur mate in " halas or where ever... urll eventually get there, WE DONT NEED fast travel at low lvl. ITS borring and feels like a themepark

You do have to walk it the first time....and when it's implemented nobody forces you to use.  Fee Free to walk to your hearts content. 

As long as the world offers the ability to walk from place to place, I  don't see what the problem is. As those who will be using fast travel are those who want it. IF you don't want to use it, don't... It's that simple.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

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