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Guild Wars 2

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General Discussion  » We got a MMO that tries to make the world living and still people complain It's not alive enough

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163 posts found
  Thupli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 466

11/03/13 9:11:06 PM#21
Originally posted by Golelorn
Originally posted by xeniar
You fail to see that This is just quest hubs in disguise. it makes the world apear living but it does not feel living at all.

Exactly.

If you think you can get a half dozen quests done just by staying in a 50 m radius of a quest giver, you are completely off base and flat out wrong.

 

ill agree that a quest is still a quest, but I'll take the GW2 format any day over the wow model.

 

  Ppiper

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/13
Posts: 668

11/03/13 9:12:56 PM#22
I'm sorry, but this game is dead from the neck up. One of the most boring games I have ever played, ever.  To even suggest that this game is a living world is hilarious. OP,  for real?
  Ender4

Elite Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2239

11/03/13 9:14:42 PM#23


Originally posted by Thupli

Originally posted by Golelorn

Originally posted by xeniar You fail to see that This is just quest hubs in disguise. it makes the world apear living but it does not feel living at all.
Exactly.
If you think you can get a half dozen quests done just by staying in a 50 m radius of a quest giver, you are completely off base and flat out wrong.

 

ill agree that a quest is still a quest, but I'll take the GW2 format any day over the wow model.

 


Most GW2 hearts are 3 or 4 quests in one. You can do any of 3 or 4 actions in one small area which is basically how WoW quests are set up too. They hide it better, it works better, but it is a modified quest system and not something truly new.

  Ppiper

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/13
Posts: 668

11/03/13 9:14:46 PM#24
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
Originally posted by xeniar
You fail to see that This is just quest hubs in disguise. it makes the world apear living but it does not feel living at all.

It was an OK first step in making questing more interesting.  But they touted it as something it really wasn't.

 

Frankly, my favorite leveling experience in an MMO was in SWTOR.  It's clear they spent a fortune on it.

I have to agree. I spent a good, solid year playing this game, whereas GW2 took me two weeks at best and was done with it. Meh!

  TheRealDarkeus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/13
Posts: 289

“I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes.

11/03/13 9:28:15 PM#25
It is a good first step.  I think GW has to work on defining roles better, The Living Story stuff is on a good path.  The lack of roles is what is the problem to this game.
  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

11/03/13 9:29:46 PM#26
Originally posted by Ender4

 


Originally posted by Thupli

Originally posted by Golelorn

Originally posted by xeniar You fail to see that This is just quest hubs in disguise. it makes the world apear living but it does not feel living at all.
Exactly.
If you think you can get a half dozen quests done just by staying in a 50 m radius of a quest giver, you are completely off base and flat out wrong.

 

 

ill agree that a quest is still a quest, but I'll take the GW2 format any day over the wow model.

 


 

Most GW2 hearts are 3 or 4 quests in one. You can do any of 3 or 4 actions in one small area which is basically how WoW quests are set up too. They hide it better, it works better, but it is a modified quest system and not something truly new.

I can't recall a quest in WoW with an 'OR' condition. I had to do everything they tasked me to do in order to complete a quest, which is different from a Heart, which can be completed by doing any or all of the tasks. Oh and Hearts were never touted as something new. They were in fact placed there to facilitate the transition of existing MMO players.

To OP: This living world is great and I'm still enjoying the game, but as it stands it's still the same content update as other MMOs that add new land masses, or change existing ones. I'm still waiting for that update where effects of our actions are more long lasting, has bigger scope (rather than confined within an area in a zone), and does not require another patch to change the scenery.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2840

11/03/13 10:25:24 PM#27
Originally posted by FlyByKnight

I apologize for getting hyped up when ArenaNet used this new buzzword called "Living World" and started the hype train moving for this new fantastical genre changing feature. I apologize for being let down when my introduction to this "Living World" was rummaging dead bodies along a path while lighting some fires.

 

While I'm at it, I apologize for being sold on a lot of things ArenaNet marketed and being later dissapointed.

 

On the bright side after experiencing Red5 and Firefall I have learned not to take Guild Wars 2 and ArenaNet for granted and look at the good things.

Stop polluting this thread with FACTS.  That video totally mislead the public on what dynamic events were like.

 

In that clip he states there aren't static questgivers.  Well technically that's true, but guess where you get your quest rewards.  You guessed it, static NPCs.

 

It simply wasn't that great a change from what existed before and it wasn't more fun to level in GW2 than in some other MMOs.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 7151

11/03/13 10:58:49 PM#28
Originally posted by Ender4

I felt you could read between the lines with the GW2 dynamic events. I was pretty comfortable with the concept that they were just linked event chains from the videos they put out and that nothing would be permanent. The way EQN describes their game I would feel violated if that is what they release because they are selling a lot of these things as one time events and not just repeated events. They are selling a realistic AI where the game itself can auto generate content, dynamic spawn locations etc.

In one of the EQN ask the devs they asked them about the whole "raising of halas" that could go on for weeks - guess what, you can't fail, I mean if one server fails to do it, they can just start again later, so eventually no matter what - every server will raise Halas and complete the event eventually.

That's my whole point, you CANNOT FAIL in any MMORPG, you cannot fail in EQN either - it's a script that just restarts and you can have a do-over.

MMORPGs only harbor success, and success without a possibility of failure is utterly meaningless.

I'd love to play a game where player actions if careless and severe enough *collectively* could have sever consequences on the virtual world, with players losing their power in game - yes actual real cause and effect, real loss, none of this slap you on the wrist stuff.

If we are able to build powerful and great heroes, there needs to be a possibility of equally great failure.

 

  Ender4

Elite Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2239

11/03/13 11:05:08 PM#29


Originally posted by DMKano

Originally posted by Ender4 I felt you could read between the lines with the GW2 dynamic events. I was pretty comfortable with the concept that they were just linked event chains from the videos they put out and that nothing would be permanent. The way EQN describes their game I would feel violated if that is what they release because they are selling a lot of these things as one time events and not just repeated events. They are selling a realistic AI where the game itself can auto generate content, dynamic spawn locations etc.
In one of the EQN ask the devs they asked them about the whole "raising of halas" that could go on for weeks - guess what, you can't fail, I mean if one server fails to do it, they can just start again later, so eventually no matter what - every server will raise Halas and complete the event eventually.

That's my whole point, you CANNOT FAIL in any MMORPG, you cannot fail in EQN either - it's a script that just restarts and you can have a do-over.

MMORPGs only harbor success, and success without a possibility of failure is utterly meaningless.

I'd love to play a game where player actions if careless and severe enough *collectively* could have sever consequences on the virtual world, with players losing their power in game - yes actual real cause and effect, real loss, none of this slap you on the wrist stuff.

If we are able to build powerful and great heroes, there needs to be a possibility of equally great failure.

 


Do you recall which one? I thought I had seen them all and I don't recall seeing this?

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 6038

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

11/03/13 11:06:03 PM#30
Originally posted by xeniar
You fail to see that This is just quest hubs in disguise. it makes the world apear living but it does not feel living at all.

it succeeded where everyone else failed. It took the exact same old questing system and made it even better, less static, more mixed so anything you do in an area contributes to the questing. Overall more alive. e.g. if a heart quest sends you to kill 10 rats, you actually dont need to kill a single rat to complete the quest! you can just go about your business and do other stuff, and it counts.

 

So yes. It is more alive than the rest of mmos that didnt want to improve their generic questing one way or another.

It still needs a lot of improvements (more DE evolution and less recyling / restarting them), but still is far better than the old method.

  iridescence

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1492

11/03/13 11:15:24 PM#31
Originally posted by DMKano
 

That's my whole point, you CANNOT FAIL in any MMORPG, you cannot fail in EQN either - it's a script that just restarts and you can have a do-over.

MMORPGs only harbor success, and success without a possibility of failure is utterly meaningless.

I'd love to play a game where player actions if careless and severe enough *collectively* could have sever consequences on the virtual world, with players losing their power in game - yes actual real cause and effect, real loss, none of this slap you on the wrist stuff.

If we are able to build powerful and great heroes, there needs to be a possibility of equally great failure.

 

 

I remember when they tried to do this type of thing  in Rift where you had  to get a group together to get rid of the invasions or they would just take over the whole zone. It was a cool step in the right direction but it fell victim to "entitled gamer syndrome": "But I don't care about this stuff! Why can't I just play the game *my* way? Waaaah!"

 

I hate the way these kind of overly selfish players end up just making  MMOs less interesting for everyone else. I really wish they'd just stay in single player games since that's what they seem to want anyway.

 

  Siug

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1242

11/04/13 1:50:32 AM#32
When I played GW2 I completely failed to see how it lived more than any other MMO. Sorry, OP, but it seems you just complaining about complaining. The strongest part of GW2 was it's B2P system but in my opinion it lacked in most other departments, especially in combat which was just plain dps zerg.
  WikileaksEU

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/13
Posts: 106

11/04/13 1:57:50 AM#33

The living story is truly living. How could you do it differently? right now the living story affects zones and or add new zones, adds new story and dungeons, new content to do. What game does this else than GW2?

Of course they need to improve their updates and also keep the story interesting and i think the story have just gotten better and better. I really liked Flame & Frost. That was a great presentation of a living story event and also the karka event was good not the karka queen which caused mega lag, however i remember that event and it was good memories, now i can go there and see her charcoaled corpse laying there and thinking "i was here, i did that, we did that".

  bcbully

Tipster

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8160

11/04/13 2:14:13 AM#34
Hook line and sinker. They sure hit their target demographic right between the eyes. They even give their demographic talking points complete with buzz words.
  jpnz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

11/04/13 2:29:11 AM#35

I'm trying not to laugh at the 'GW2 don't have quest hubs!' logic.

Yeah, they don't. Or they do but they skip the 'talk to NPC' bit and just gives you a bunch of quests all over the map.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  User Deleted
11/04/13 3:37:43 AM#36
Originally posted by Torgrim

We are used to static NPC quest hubs, nothing really happends in the zone you quest in your favorite MMO, sure you can read what happend but you really can't see it.

Anet is trying hard with thier living world thing, yes I find some of them boring and grinding but atleast they are trying to make something that few MMO ever dared to try, they try to make the world living and in a flux of change in a minor degree, for me atleast that is a nice kick in the right direction how a MMO world can feel alive and not static, sure Anet have made some blunders but you have to make some errors to learn from your misstakes.

But sadly some people want the whole power for themselves to change the world and that power is a really bad thing, there are so many gamers out there who love and thrives to just fuck things up and that's why I feel Anet is on the right track, they are making the living world not some moronic and sick players.

You can hate or love this living world events but you have to see that this is a first step in something NOT static and I hope more future MMOs takes after Anets bold aproach on how a gaming world evolves and hopefully improves on it.

 

 

Well, considering next step is moving to truly evolving world, which would require real AI, its next best thing. I have yet to experience anything that feels more alive. WoW/AoC/LOTRO/SWTOR/RIft/Lineage all feel mindnumbing after GW2. Yeah its only appearance. But it works best of the lot.

And to some other posters:

the only thing it would "revolutionize" is griefing. And no, "Players will police themselves" rolf, right, i wouldnt have players in charge of anything remotely important ESPECIALLY something that can ruin whole game world (like some suggested)

Players can have some freedom....within firmly set boundaries. Think EvE or SWG.

  xeniar

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 822

11/04/13 4:11:20 AM#37
Originally posted by rojo6934
Originally posted by xeniar
You fail to see that This is just quest hubs in disguise. it makes the world apear living but it does not feel living at all.

it succeeded where everyone else failed. It took the exact same old questing system and made it even better, less static, more mixed so anything you do in an area contributes to the questing. Overall more alive. e.g. if a heart quest sends you to kill 10 rats, you actually dont need to kill a single rat to complete the quest! you can just go about your business and do other stuff, and it counts.

 

So yes. It is more alive than the rest of mmos that didnt want to improve their generic questing one way or another.

It still needs a lot of improvements (more DE evolution and less recyling / restarting them), but still is far better than the old method.

Oh guys you are gettign me wrong. I'm not saying that the questsystem they use is awfull, Its diffrent but your still doing same old same old quests moving from zone to zone and from DE to DE wich in some areas happen abit to frequent.

We are talking about how this makes the world feel more alive. and it does not at all. at least for me. and i explained in in the big post earlier in the thread. Nobody comments on that tho :(

edit: its all about the hype they created, they did not deliver what they where selling us. Wich was these Dynamic events wich could change the world. It doesn't change a thing tho. That farm wich is taken over by bandits for 5 mins... oh please..

  User Deleted
11/04/13 4:17:10 AM#38

ANET didn't really do anything new here.  They just made quest hubs even more simplistic by eliminating the need to bother talking to someone for a quest in the first place.  The system actually makes traditional quest hubs look amazing in comparison, since you actually talk to people and get to hear their story, etc.  In GW2, about the closest you come to that, aside from your "personal story" thing that happens every blue moon, is the scouts who kind of give you a run-down of what's happening in the region.

That's it.  The whole "living world" thing makes no sense to me, because the world feels even more dead and static than most MMO's, which is really saying something.

  Dogblaster

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/12
Posts: 505

11/04/13 4:21:48 AM#39
well give gw 2 vertical progression, actual drops from dungeons, mobs and many many new sets of armor and weapons which are not availible to everyone from trade post for nothing maybe ill be back to gw 2. But for now gw 2 is most casual friednly mmorpg ive ever played, who cares how live the world feels.
  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2179

 
OP  11/04/13 4:29:09 AM#40
Originally posted by asmkm22

ANET didn't really do anything new here.  They just made quest hubs even more simplistic by eliminating the need to bother talking to someone for a quest in the first place.  The system actually makes traditional quest hubs look amazing in comparison, since you actually talk to people and get to hear their story, etc.  In GW2, about the closest you come to that, aside from your "personal story" thing that happens every blue moon, is the scouts who kind of give you a run-down of what's happening in the region.

That's it.  The whole "living world" thing makes no sense to me, because the world feels even more dead and static than most MMO's, which is really saying something.

 

Umm have you played GW2 at all?

GW2 don't have a wall of quest text that few bother to read, GW2 have talking NPC that explains whats going on at every DE, you just have to stick around and listen to what they have to say and then you know why that specific DE is all about.

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

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