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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Five of the Best MMOs for Soloers

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196 posts found
  Encephalitis

Novice Member

Joined: 9/20/13
Posts: 59

11/01/13 1:11:18 PM#61
Originally posted by reillan
I would love to see an MMO where you couldn't even proceed past level 10 without grouping with one other person, 25 without 4... it would certainly slow down the leveling curve and force people to get to know one another.

as somebody had mentioned earlier, raids are frequently done w/o anybody ever saying a word in chat. being forced to party with some people to progress is, to a lesser extent, about the same as being forced into a guild/clan/crew/gang/etc to proceed. i don't know if being strong armed into something would be the best of ideas.

  Heatsink98

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/06
Posts: 31

11/01/13 1:20:40 PM#62

When analyzing the point of solo content in a MMO, don't forget the design considerations.  These points weren't considered in the first MMO's, and it showed a poor grasp of game design:

1-Forced grouping boned new players when no other players were available.

2-Pooling of players at max level meant #1 got worse.

3-Assuming all players were competent, both socially and in gameplay prowess.

4-Assuming all players were altruistic.  Whether it's League of Legends or World of Warcraft, the genre draws its share of trolls and dbags.  The infestation by the scum of society also seems to be getting worse.

  Angzt

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/07
Posts: 233

"Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional."(Bob Monkhouse)

11/01/13 1:20:56 PM#63

just because a mmo has a huge single player content does not make it a single player mmo.

 

when i started gaming, it was about achieving, about doing the stuff your friends could not (so far). about compling lvls or difficulties none of your mates could conquer.

 

that changed. people wanted a quicker approach, they got it. now they cry. sounds normal to me.

 

sure, you can play devil may cry on easy and think you have beaten the game. but if you never tried it on hardest setting..... you didn't realy try at all.

 

same goes for mmos (especially WoW).

the raidfinder is NOT endcontent. it gives the noobs a glimps into end content, the casual raiders a way to boost their items (so they can complete the harder challanges).

try setting up your own (non flex) raid and then clear dem raids again. you will find out - it's not easy at all.

 

"believe me, mike.. i calculated the odds of this working against the odds that i was doing something incredibly stupid… and i did it anyway!"

  sketocafe

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/19/11
Posts: 560

11/01/13 1:24:17 PM#64
Originally posted by SBFord
Originally posted by bcbully
Your #1 is completely wrong in the case of Age of Wushu. You essentially will not progress solo. The game does not apologize for this either.

The implication isn't that ALL games are solo-able, just that most are. I'm sure AoW is a peach. ;)

That's odd, here I thought the phrases "every MMO" and "Look at any game you've played in recent memory" pretty much explicitly stated that ALL games are solo-able.

  reddog00

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/11/04
Posts: 122

Control is an illusion!!!

11/01/13 1:38:40 PM#65
I am so glad MMO's finally wised up.  It is kinda like chatting with friends on your Xbox 360.  I want to BS and laugh with my friends but I hardly ever want to play the game they are currently playing.  Almost NEVER!

-------------------------------------------
Control is an illusion!

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3047

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

11/01/13 1:40:21 PM#66


Originally posted by DMKano
Raid content - not soloable

Perhaps you missed Suzie's ending line:
"Sure there are places that might never be seen because of the shunning of joining up with others, but that's generally small and easily overlooked by those who simply prefer to play alone."

What percentage of an MMO is raiding? Is it significant enough to warrant your post?

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3047

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

11/01/13 1:44:30 PM#67


Originally posted by maplestone
This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.



Have to add my own praises to the others for a great post, maplestone :)
+1 Thumbs Up
+1 Like
+ Agree
+1000 Internets

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  c0exist

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 187

11/01/13 1:46:02 PM#68
Originally posted by Encephalitis
Originally posted by reillan
I would love to see an MMO where you couldn't even proceed past level 10 without grouping with one other person, 25 without 4... it would certainly slow down the leveling curve and force people to get to know one another.

as somebody had mentioned earlier, raids are frequently done w/o anybody ever saying a word in chat. being forced to party with some people to progress is, to a lesser extent, about the same as being forced into a guild/clan/crew/gang/etc to proceed. i don't know if being strong armed into something would be the best of ideas.

Forced grouping worked great when I was in Final Fantasy 11.  In all my 5 years of playing I was never in a party where no one said a word.  You need people to progress which led to people acting right and it was the best community I have ever been in.  Now you dont need anyone so you can say whatever you want because with group finders who cares ill never see these people again. 

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3047

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

11/01/13 1:50:46 PM#69


Originally posted by reillan
I would love to see an MMO where you couldn't even proceed past level 10 without grouping with one other person, 25 without 4... it would certainly slow down the leveling curve and force people to get to know one another.

I would not play it.

Sometimes, I just don't feel like grouping. Instead, I'd rather have other players around that may affect my gameplay, be it lending a heal here or there, maybe helping someone out of a sticky situation, answering questions in chat if I can, or roleplaying with a live person instead of a static NPC.

MAKING me group will have me quitting the game in a heartbeat, or rolling up new characters that can do the small solo stuff until I am bored.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4606

11/01/13 1:51:02 PM#70

I don't have an issue with a game being soloable. My issue is with how bad it scales when you group.

Most games are designed to be played solo. Adding another person to the encounter makes the game a face roll. Diablo had scaling content 12+ years ago ? you'd think by now some mmo would of found a way to make a game solo friendly but rewarded group play with harder/more challenging content without forcing them into an instance...which really is a bunch of solo players headed towards the same light.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Swids2010

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/13
Posts: 207

11/01/13 2:02:24 PM#71

FACT - If you make a game were all content or say nearly all content can be completed as a solo player then the Developers have failed to make a MMO.

  Kalafax

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/05
Posts: 501

11/01/13 2:06:04 PM#72

The problem I find these days is people confuse MMO with meaning that you need to play actively in a group for it to be multiplayer, or that you arnt social if you play solo.

Being a solo player isn't about things being easier for one person to do, being a solo player is about have the ability to take on stuff that others would use a group for by yourself. Its not supposed to be easy, or for the faint of heart, but at the same time it is no indication of how social you are. I play MMOs to be social, chat with guild members, meet new people from all over, trade my wares, have a large social net work, but when it comes to my combat I like to take on the world on my own, I only have to look out for myself that way and when I can accomplish things myself that the majority of the world has to use a group for it sets me apart.

On the other side, Developers have it horribly misunderstood and instead made the worlds easier for everyone to be able to solo the majority of their games thus completely negating the accomplishment of being a solo player that was the main draw to being a soloer in MMOs of old.

 

Regardless of what most people think games these days arnt what I consider solo friendly anymore, yes games are made easier so that the majority can be done alone and then the end stuff requires a group, but that isn't the true art of soloing in my belief and is just a veil hiding the fact that the Devs make games around the end game grind instead of making a fully fleshed world for you to actively live in, from the bottom to the top, its a huge disadvantage to the whole leveling system MMOs seem stuck in these days, you level and leave the area meaning people need to be able to do stuff alone cause they wont have people to help later on In the games life.

Mess with the best, Die like the rest

  tommygunzII

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 322

11/01/13 2:23:52 PM#73
I agree. Almost every MMORPG can be largely solo'ed, even if it is just for the first 20-30 levels or so. My first MMORPG FFXI you were fighting for your life at level 5 and almost forced to group at level 10, you weren't really forced to group as much as you realize that anything worth any XP will probably win a one on one fight so teaming up with others was obvious.
  g0m0rrah

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/23/13
Posts: 211

11/01/13 2:27:08 PM#74
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by SBFord
Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

Very nicely stated. Thank you for that. :)

I agree, definitely well said.  To many people seem to want to impose their playstyle on others without taking other people into consideration.  Preferences in playstyle and options are a good thing.  However I think we will have World Peace before all gamers can agree to that.  This whole, "my way or the highway" attitude that is so prevalent on these forums never cease to amaze me.

  Imposed play style is what you get when almost all MMO's cater to a single group.  It is very easy to say " play you way and I will play my way ", when almost all mmorpgs cater to your way.  Maplestone is basically saying since her way is the common way, dont judge and dont argue against my way.

 

  If someone doesnt speak up, things do not change.  The problem is that if you argue for a different way, people cry that you are attacking them and not simply suggesting an alternative.  Just because your way is the most commonly accepted way, that doesnt mean every argument against it is us demeaning you...

 
 You also should take into account that in most current MMORPGS, you basically get punished for grouping.  When you level faster solo due to experience being split between group mates, this is in turn enforcing your style of play.
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5643

11/01/13 2:28:55 PM#75
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Originally posted by DMKano
Raid content - not soloable


Perhaps you missed Suzie's ending line:
"Sure there are places that might never be seen because of the shunning of joining up with others, but that's generally small and easily overlooked by those who simply prefer to play alone."

What percentage of an MMO is raiding? Is it significant enough to warrant your post?

I see what you're saying and I'm not speaking for DMKano, but I would ask, "How much satisfying and interesting progression is there outside of raiding in an mmo?"

Do you get a second hand progression, second rate equipment, and a mediocre gameplay experience outside of raiding? How did memorizing zone scripts with 24 other people somehow become the pinnacle, and only rewarding method, of mmo gaming?

I wonder how much more interesting mmo gaming would be if we have fewer lines and divisions between content. I'll still refer back to Lineage, for all its faults, got this one thing so right. There was content and you could do it any way you wanted and see the same rewards if you were successful. Going at it alone or in a smaller group was more dangerous, but also potentially more rewarding since you didn't have to split those rewards. Grouping was faster, safer, and also kept you less susceptible to attack from the random PK.

In trying to solve some of the early complaints about extensive grind and harsh death penalties we've somehow come to this place where content is all disconnected and disjointed, not to mention "end game". I see that as a real design problem with current games.

 

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Golelorn

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/23/03
Posts: 1057

11/01/13 2:30:18 PM#76

1. DDO

2. EQ1

3. EQ2

 

I don't think any other MMO approaches what can be done by a solo player in those games. They blow everyone else away.

 

Now, there are a lot of fun MMOs that can be played solo, but you'll stall out on content far quicker than those 3.

  rasiem

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/03
Posts: 67

11/01/13 2:36:15 PM#77
I believe the problem is there is no real reason to group if you can solo everything. Unless you play a game from the release the chance of you running by someone on your exact quest is very rareeven if you do they hardly talk to you. The thing is they made the endgame the main focus for grouping and socializing why is anyone going to help or join lower level people the end game BS creates a rush to get through the game to get to the social aspect. There needs to be somone kind of reward system for helping lower levels or maby a system of reward for participating in quests as a party member. Because you can argue that games are social if you make them social and thats your choice to be quiet but the reality is they used to be social ad there not because thats how the games have taught players to behave. We have just adapted to not socializing and that can be changed.
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5643

11/01/13 2:40:13 PM#78
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

Yes that was very well said.

Case in point, a lot of people wrote SWToR off as a single player game. All I can say is that I did more grouping in SWToR than I ever did in, say, LOTRO.

It just happened that way. I was out in the world, people needed help, yadda, yadda, yadda, an evening was spent.

This is one of my favorite things. It's also how I've met people I've really enjoyed gaming with.

I'm out hunting for drops or gold, or just farming xp and I see someone that maybe is overwhelmed with mobs. I throw them heals, or cc some of the mobs, or help with dps until they have it under control. Or maybe they got attacked by a PK while hunting and I help them out. Or maybe I'm the one in need. Those scenarios are things I've enjoyed about mmos that I don't get a huge opportunity for in many games.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17085

11/01/13 2:43:26 PM#79
Originally posted by rasiem
I believe the problem is there is no real reason to group if you can solo everything.

I'm a die  hard soloer but even I have to admit that I'd like to see a game have content that can only be soloed.

Once again, I like the way lineage 2 did it. There were areas that had better drops but only a group could do it and yet all that stuff could be sold to whoever would pay meaning solo players didn't have to be left out when it came to certain drops.

  tommygunzII

Novice Member

Joined: 9/26/11
Posts: 322

11/01/13 2:58:21 PM#80
Originally posted by rasiem
I believe the problem is there is no real reason to group if you can solo everything. Unless you play a game from the release the chance of you running by someone on your exact quest is very rareeven if you do they hardly talk to you. The thing is they made the endgame the main focus for grouping and socializing why is anyone going to help or join lower level people the end game BS creates a rush to get through the game to get to the social aspect. There needs to be somone kind of reward system for helping lower levels or maby a system of reward for participating in quests as a party member. Because you can argue that games are social if you make them social and thats your choice to be quiet but the reality is they used to be social ad there not because thats how the games have taught players to behave. We have just adapted to not socializing and that can be changed.

This too. Quest design plays a large part in the way these MMO's are played

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