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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Five of the Best MMOs for Soloers

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196 posts found
  Novuhz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/09
Posts: 25

11/01/13 10:43:51 AM#21

Sorry but I have to disagree, if you can't progress the game without joining other players, that game is not solo.

I can only talk about Rift and WoW in that list because I haven't played the other ones, and in Rift / WoW if you want really good gear you can't play solo to get it /thread. How about WoW Arenas/Battlegrounds how are you going to get top PvP gear playing solo? It's impossible you need MMR/ELO to even unlock the top pvp weapons and what about WoW PvP arena titles? You will never be able to get them solo. What about the lore? Can you even do all the lore solo? No you can't you need people to accomplish all this stuff.

 

Can you solo instances the same lvl as  your level? Nope (not solo game anymore)

Can you do all quests the same lvl as your lvl alone? Nope (not solo game anymore)

 

Your definition of solo is wrong.

 

What is solo?

for or done by one person alone; unaccompanied.

a thing done by one person unaccompanied, in particular.

  ZombieKen

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/10
Posts: 4410

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11/01/13 10:45:24 AM#22
Originally posted by Nadia
this needs a companion article of   Best MMOs for gamers who enjoy teamwork

 

+1  That would be an interesting read.

 

... and waves to another from the MMO Faces thread :-)

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  Burntvet

Elite Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2800

11/01/13 10:51:59 AM#23
Originally posted by ZombieKen
Originally posted by Nadia
this needs a companion article of   Best MMOs for gamers who enjoy teamwork

 

+1  That would be an interesting read.

 

... and waves to another from the MMO Faces thread :-)

It would be a short list.

Pretty much every game since WoW can be soloed, some almost completely, with the exception of raiding (although in many, there is no end game BUT raiding).

It is clear that in new games, player interdependency is dead. (Heck some of the "newer" MMORPG players get offended when they have to group or need any kind of player interaction for anything, not PvP. How far is that from the UO/SWG/EQ days?)

  SBFord

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 14189

 
OP  11/01/13 10:52:27 AM#24
Originally posted by bcbully
Your #1 is completely wrong in the case of Age of Wushu. You essentially will not progress solo. The game does not apologize for this either.

The implication isn't that ALL games are solo-able, just that most are. I'm sure AoW is a peach. ;)

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  orbitxo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/25/06
Posts: 1250

11/01/13 10:54:44 AM#25

World of Warcraft-really?

i found it so hard to solo after leveling cap-let alone the dungeons and raids were too dependent on groups and guilds.

all i recall soloing was that 'special' shaman totem quest and the redundent dailies

GW2 was a refreshing soloable mmo- but died after the Orders missions ended. sad times...

i believe TSW yet again did a great job balancing solo play with group play- and now with issue 8 this should be pretty amazing!

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6095

11/01/13 10:54:46 AM#26

Originally posted by Nadia
this needs a companion article of   Best MMOs for gamers who enjoy teamwork

I agree with DMKano on this. The list would essentially be the same.

The real interesting companion article would be, "Why do mmo companies now only create interesting, challenging, and rewarding progression only for those who enjoy teamwork."

You can solo or group in most any game, everything from doing it all alone, to duo, grouping, on up to raiding. The problem is there is only one quality reward tier - the content where you get 24 people together - yet that is arguably a small portion of the playerbase that engages in that content. Why is it that overland, solo, and small group content is so shallow and melty? Even some of the second generation games like WoW and EQ2 have changed to make all overland stuff so trivial.

This is one reason I really love how EQ2 has evolved heroic content to encompass duo and groups and that it all works in fairly smoothly to raid zones. I've been having a great time with my 85 warden in The Hole, going mercless. It's challenging. Providing challenging content options with commiserate rewards is the way forward in my opinion. This feature in EQ2 is highly underrated and under-acknowledged.

Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

This is a great post. There is a huge cultural and generational gap between players in the genre. MMOs are about a shared world and community.

I remember in Lineage that people could freely solo or engage in content at any group size. There wasn't solo, pvp, and "raid" gear. There was just gear and you obtained it by any means possible. We often grouped for fun and safety, not because the content was predefined for and required for it. It was about choice. The focus wasn't on controlling how you interacted with the content and community. The focus was on playing the game and all the rest just happened organically.

You last statement sums up my philosophy as well.

Curse you AquaScum!

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2824

We all breathe and we all die.

11/01/13 10:56:43 AM#27
Originally posted by rodingo
Originally posted by SBFord
Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

Very nicely stated. Thank you for that. :)

I agree, definitely well said.  To many people seem to want to impose their playstyle on others without taking other people into consideration.  Preferences in playstyle and options are a good thing.  However I think we will have World Peace before all gamers can agree to that.  This whole, "my way or the highway" attitude that is so prevalent on these forums never cease to amaze me.

Very true.

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  Loktofeit

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12405

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

11/01/13 10:58:49 AM#28
Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

You currently have me wishing for a +1 or upvote feature. Very well said, maplestone.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Tekaelon

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/09/08
Posts: 493

11/01/13 11:11:14 AM#29

Good game design should allow for solid, enjoyable solo game play. Sometimes you just don't have time to coordinate with others to get something done. That being said , the current trend in MMO's is killing the concept of group play. The BEST rewards and adventures in an MMO should ALWAYS require a group! Not only that but MMO's should encourage team work through a dynamic group mechanic that insists on specific rolls. I don't mean JUST the dreaded big 3 of tanking, healing and DPS. We live in a time where developers should be able to discern all types of group encounter types.

 

As much as I enjoyed and respect GW2, I got so tired of every group encounter coming down to 'how fast can we dps'. It got tedious and never required to develop a play style beyond hitting max level and hitting the gear ceiling. There are no memorable moments in GW2, it all just blurs together. It was a design decision Anet made for mass appeal. That's fine, and works, but it eventually loses it color and no amount of armor/weapons skins can change that. 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6095

11/01/13 11:11:46 AM#30
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

You currently have me wishing for a +1 or upvote feature. Very well said, maplestone.

Me too. I would love to add a +1 or a list like agree, disagree, informative, insightful, helpful. Anything like that. I now return you to your regularly scheduled banter.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Speiberbob

Novice Member

Joined: 1/07/07
Posts: 234

11/01/13 11:22:38 AM#31

Haha! humor gold ;)

 

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  VikingGamer

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1286

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11/01/13 11:32:45 AM#32
Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

Much of online interaction is shared but not very social, not unlike mass transit.

Good observations

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  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1491

11/01/13 11:32:59 AM#33
Originally posted by Silverthorn8
 I found back in the early days (pre wow that is), game worlds were harsh enough that players needed to co-operate in order to progress. It makes for a much nicer community, vastly more rewarding than the current crop.

Pretty much  this. I prefer the whole world be set up around being able to get more done in a group (if not finding it very hard to survive solo). I dislike being in the middle of a soloable quest in a themepark and suddenly being told "OK now you have to find a group to finish this quest " because some dev arbitrarily decides that part of the quest chain has to be group content. If you want to make players socialize reward them for   defending or attacking  something they care about. It's easier to play actual pen and paper games online now. We no longer need MMOs to provide second-rate pseudo D&D dungeon runs.

 

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2204

11/01/13 11:34:09 AM#34
Originally posted by ZombieKen

I'd add AOC's Tortage to the best soloable based on storyline play.  I found it very engaging as a SP experience, although not what I'd be looking for in an MMORPG.

It's not soloable, it's solo, period :) (during the night, I mean). I agree, lately it became much easier to solo the day part as well, but back in the day you had to bring some friends for the group quests...

 

And that aspect leads back to the column, just like Zixizor I somewhat disagree with it - except in case of TOR :) There's a difference between the removal of forced grouping (or making it easier, like Rift's quick join) but still having a nice and fun group part in game, and between having an irrevelant (or in TOR's case even disturbing, during the cutscenes) multi mode.

I think if a game is throwing you group content from left and right (like Rift) or leading you into group content all the time like AoC, (and the list could go on) I wouldn't call that a solo game.

 

I'd put only TOR on the best mmo for soloers List... For me TOR was the only mmo I've labeled as solo so far, and I don't think I'm alone with that, I mean MikeB even had to wrote a column about how TOR is not a singleplayer game... but of course it is :)

  Drakha

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/11
Posts: 28

11/01/13 11:46:45 AM#35
Originally posted by SBFord
Originally posted by bcbully
Your #1 is completely wrong in the case of Age of Wushu. You essentially will not progress solo. The game does not apologize for this either.

The implication isn't that ALL games are solo-able, just that most are. I'm sure AoW is a peach. ;)

That may be true, however that isn't what the article is about.The title has the word "soloers" however the article is about being social.Playing with others and being social aren't the same thing.The article says that you don't have to talk to other people to join a group but can just click a button.For an article that's suppose to be about soloers it talks a lot about people playing with other people.You can be social without playing you can just sit in a hub and chat.So why should you have to be social when you play.

  azarhal

Elite Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 588

11/01/13 11:46:55 AM#36
Originally posted by maplestone

This is an issue on which there is an enormous culture gap between players in the genre.  To me, MMOs are primarily about a shared world, not formal grouping.  In fact, formal grouping is the antithesis of what an MMO means to me becasue it reduces the fluid crossing of paths to isolated pockets of forced dependancy.

Any argument that solo play is like a single-player game can be replaced with the argument that formal grouping is just a LAN party. 

But in general, if I ever I find myself judging how other people are playing a game, I remind myself that it's my problem, not theirs.

Another +1 here. Very well said.

  Incomparable

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/11/11
Posts: 803

11/01/13 11:50:53 AM#37

The problem with actual group content in themepark MMOs for end game is that it revolves around a gear grind.

Anything that takes hours of gameplay and the reward in the challenge is not worth the time investment is due to the mmo most likely lacking any influence from the players, no housing that is integrated with raiding and achievments, no complex guild mechanics again integrated with in game achievements for pve and pvp...

Then in a patch / update / expansion, they introduce one more raid or two but a whole new gear grind undermining all previous effort of the large amount of time to get gear in a simple mmo world which lacks the systems to properly reward players.

 

So why bother with raiding? Unless you have real life friends, and its something that you collectively do. However, meeting people online to do raids knowing that the rewards is not worth the effort due to the MMO lacking vision, is something that imo feels like you are working rather than having fun. Like there is some kind of obligation for being an online player, you have to do what others like... and maybe some like to waste thier time raiding... maybe some are new to MMOs as well... but for vets, I would be surprised they are willing to do raid gear grinds again and again especially if they take a lot of effort. In some MMOs they dont.

I think swtor does a decent job with the gear grind for OPs but still a grind to work up to that lvl for gear and very dependant on not only being the right spec but in a competent team. Since some specs are not good for either pvp/ raids... and possibly not good for both in terms of damage being the most important as a damage dealing class that is not a primary healer.

Is the solo part of questing anything special...  maybe to some. I am more about the pvp, and even instanced pvp is something I enjoy compared to other games. I like choosing from a range of abilities as they would have them in MMOs.

Other than that, I would greatly enjoy grouping if it was not tangled with gear grinds, having the perfect spec, and people who memorized strategy in a game that required people to memorize strategy becuase the in game mechanics are not intuitive.

So in short, raids are a waste of time since they are not done right.

“Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  reillan

Novice Member

Joined: 11/01/07
Posts: 233

11/01/13 11:51:49 AM#38
I would love to see an MMO where you couldn't even proceed past level 10 without grouping with one other person, 25 without 4... it would certainly slow down the leveling curve and force people to get to know one another.
  GrumpyMel2

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/24/09
Posts: 1828

11/01/13 11:56:01 AM#39

To be honest, I think there is a bit of nuance that is being missed in the subject. I'm very much against "Solo-Play" in MMO's but lack of "Solo-Play" also doesn't neccesarly mean the traditional "invite 5 people into some formal group to go into some pocket dimension of the world where you are cut-off from everything else and run content"..... I'm not so crazy about that either. "Solo-Play" means litteraly almost zero interaction with anyone else in the game world...which is pretty much how many MMO's today play.

What I really prefer is cooperative play and forced interdependancy. That means you are not off in some pocket dimension with a formaly organized group....but you do need to interact with other players in the game world, and you benefit significantly from working together with others to defeat challenges in the environment and against hostiles. If you think of how many multi-player FPS games that is a decent example. Yes if you "squad-up" and communicate tightly you will be more effective....but even when you are not, you are working toward a common goal with other players on your side....and you NEED to cooperate with other players on your side to be effective. If you are a sniper....and an enemy AFV comes your way, you NEED the assistance of an anti-tank guy to help you out.....your side will be FAR more effective if you are taking out enemy MG's and AA Guns that are blocking your sides approach to the control point they are attacking rather then randomly pot-shoting an enemy spawn point on your own. You can do all this without a single INVITE button being pressed....and just a bit of casual communication with other folks on your side to relay important data. I would argue that's NOT at all "Solo-Play" but a form of Cooperative Play and actualy taking advantage of the multi-player aspects of the game....possibly even more so then traditional grouping. Add in things like a player based economy and assistance for rescuing corpses, healing wounds, opening treasure chests, etc......and you have a real basis for social gameplay.

So it's not simply a binary choice between traditional grouping vs "Solo Play".

 

IMO, the sign of a good multi-player game is where you are always happy to encounter another friendly player out in the environment because thier mere presence helps you be more successfull, even without any "INVITES" exchanged.

 

 

 

 

 

  thark

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/01/03
Posts: 1110

11/01/13 12:02:02 PM#40
Originally posted by Avarix
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Nadia
this needs a companion article of   Best MMOs for gamers who enjoy teamwork

It would be the same list, as each individual decides *how* they want to play their games, socially or not, you can play Rift, WoW, SWTOR, GW2 excusively with your guild if you want to.

I remember having friends over for solo games on C64, Amiga 500, Nintendo etc... 

Its up to you to be social, or not.

 

Getting tired of reading this excuse for a lack of multi-player in MMORPGs, emphasis on the MM part. There is an entire genre for players that don't want to socialize, they're single-player games. I can be extremely social, doesn't mean anyone else is going to be. You need other people to actually care about grouping, and in these games they don't. WoW player-base is especially viscous, in my experience, with players that are not already experts in all the dungeons and simply want to enjoy the experience.

 

Grouping will always be a lot more work than soloing, if there is no incentive then these players will never do it. All we have left are dungeons and raids to actually interact with other players. The sad part of that is that in most of these games we can exclude the dungeons part for socializing. Being able to run through an entire dungeon without anyone ever saying ANYTHING is pretty common. Guild Wars 2 is especially bad for this. Other players may as well be NPC. If you don't want the MMO part in your game, that's fine. There are a TON of games, and an entire genre called "Single player role-playing games". Why are they trying to change the defining characteristic of this genre? Frankly, it sucks.

I agree to the fullest, the BIGGEST percentege of content should be focused on grouping not the other way around ...The best would be if there was no solo option at all but that will never happen..

 

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