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Life is Feudal

Life is Feudal 

General Discussion  » Life is Feudal - Sandbox Medieval MMO

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124 posts found
  nerovipus32

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 2716

10/31/13 10:07:40 AM#41
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1026

10/31/13 10:19:13 AM#42
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

Those indie games have failed because they're bad games period.  Most players likely never get to worry about being ganked in DF or MO because they can't get past the horrible mechanics.  

 

Sandboxes don't have to be FFA nor do they even have to be sandboxes. I don't get the point in pointing it out.  Not all games have to be for you or everyone.  Its a shame fellow sandbox fans try to discouraged sandboxes like many mainstream themepark fans do.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/31/13 10:37:27 AM#43
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

My computer is better than yours.

  Amaranthar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

10/31/13 11:01:37 AM#44
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by tom_gore

Alright since it seems my point went off the mark here, let me elaborate a bit.

This has already been attempted by Darkfall and Mortal Online. Granted, both are still running (though I hear the latter is in financial trouble) but is there really room for more? We already have ToA contending for this same very, very small niche.

In the meantime, we have exactly zero, ZERO open world sandbox games which would offer consensual (player faction based) PvP, despite the fact the target audience for such a game is MUCH bigger than the FFA Full Loot PvP niche.

I don't know what the developers' expectations are, but I don't think they're aiming for three-digit subscriber/paying customer numbers, which is probably what they will get, at best.

 

Dude you and your crowd don't want a sandbox, you want a themepark with housing. Rules are made by the players with supporting systems in a sandbox. Hard rules like "you can't hit that person in the mouth for being an ass until he checks a box" simply does not belong. 

Neither does rampant PKing in a world where characters never die, nor suffer any other form of social justice. These games turn into nothing more than a Battle Arena.

Once upon a time....

  Amaranthar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

10/31/13 11:07:14 AM#45
Originally posted by Klayo
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by tom_gore

Alright since it seems my point went off the mark here, let me elaborate a bit.

This has already been attempted by Darkfall and Mortal Online. Granted, both are still running (though I hear the latter is in financial trouble) but is there really room for more? We already have ToA contending for this same very, very small niche.

In the meantime, we have exactly zero, ZERO open world sandbox games which would offer consensual (player faction based) PvP, despite the fact the target audience for such a game is MUCH bigger than the FFA Full Loot PvP niche.

I don't know what the developers' expectations are, but I don't think they're aiming for three-digit subscriber/paying customer numbers, which is probably what they will get, at best.

 

Dude you and your crowd don't want a sandbox, you want a themepark with housing. Rules are made by the players with supporting systems in a sandbox. Hard rules like "you can't hit that person in the mouth for being an ass until he checks a box" simply does not belong. 

Exactly! But there should be consequences if you do hit that player in the mouth. You shouldn't be able to just murder someone and not be accountable for it. Otherwise it's just meaningless slaughter which is just as pointless as "tick box so i can attack you".

I completely agree with you. There needs to be a consequence a player should face for committing unjust acts in a sandbox, but it shouldn't be a consequence or punishment that is placed on you BY THE DEVELOPER just for committing the act. Players should have the tools to make consequences for committing unlawful or evil acts. There should be a sense of morality in a sandbox, because you can do ANYTHING. Developers haven't made a worthwhile sandbox in quite some time though. Games don't need arbitrary rules about the players you can and can't attack. You should be free you do anything you want, but as in the real world there should be consequences for your actions.

TLDR: I can punch some one in real life, and there are no inherent consequences for JUST ME DOING IT, but I could be charged with assault from some one in authority for doing it, or the man could turn around and punch me for punching him. I don't want to punch him and just be punished by an invisible force that is not apart of my world. I want to punch some one and be punished by an authority that isn't built into the game. Players make other players accountable for their actions, like humans make other humans accountable for their actions.

What would make accountability work?

Once upon a time....

  Holophonist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2019

10/31/13 11:08:22 AM#46
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

 

Sandbox isn't a binary state. No game is either total sandbox or complete lack of sandbox. It's based on the many many features in the game. Each one can either be MORE or LESS "sandboxy." Not restricting pvp and not restricting looting is more sandboxy than developer imposed restrictions such as flagging systems etc.

No 1 feature is essential to a game being called a sandbox, it's a sliding scale. So you can have a pretty sandboxy game without having ow pvp and full loot, but those features are still inherently sandboxy features.
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19709

10/31/13 11:11:36 AM#47

- free loot pvp

- no instances

- look like very mundane setting, with little magic nor fantasy elements

- probably cannot be solo

 

.... i will pass

 

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1026

10/31/13 11:24:31 AM#48
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

All games don't have to be for everyone. 

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

10/31/13 11:32:41 AM#49
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by tom_gore

Alright since it seems my point went off the mark here, let me elaborate a bit.

This has already been attempted by Darkfall and Mortal Online. Granted, both are still running (though I hear the latter is in financial trouble) but is there really room for more? We already have ToA contending for this same very, very small niche.

In the meantime, we have exactly zero, ZERO open world sandbox games which would offer consensual (player faction based) PvP, despite the fact the target audience for such a game is MUCH bigger than the FFA Full Loot PvP niche.

I don't know what the developers' expectations are, but I don't think they're aiming for three-digit subscriber/paying customer numbers, which is probably what they will get, at best.

 

Dude you and your crowd don't want a sandbox, you want a themepark with housing. Rules are made by the players with supporting systems in a sandbox. Hard rules like "you can't hit that person in the mouth for being an ass until he checks a box" simply does not belong. 

You probably didn't play UO in Renaissance? Probably the third biggest sandbox game success ever made (after SWG and EVE).

Even EVE would have been dead ages ago if it didn't have high-sec space and Concord.

 

  Klayo

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 5

10/31/13 11:38:23 AM#50
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Klayo
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by tom_gore

Alright since it seems my point went off the mark here, let me elaborate a bit.

This has already been attempted by Darkfall and Mortal Online. Granted, both are still running (though I hear the latter is in financial trouble) but is there really room for more? We already have ToA contending for this same very, very small niche.

In the meantime, we have exactly zero, ZERO open world sandbox games which would offer consensual (player faction based) PvP, despite the fact the target audience for such a game is MUCH bigger than the FFA Full Loot PvP niche.

I don't know what the developers' expectations are, but I don't think they're aiming for three-digit subscriber/paying customer numbers, which is probably what they will get, at best.

 

Dude you and your crowd don't want a sandbox, you want a themepark with housing. Rules are made by the players with supporting systems in a sandbox. Hard rules like "you can't hit that person in the mouth for being an ass until he checks a box" simply does not belong. 

Exactly! But there should be consequences if you do hit that player in the mouth. You shouldn't be able to just murder someone and not be accountable for it. Otherwise it's just meaningless slaughter which is just as pointless as "tick box so i can attack you".

I completely agree with you. There needs to be a consequence a player should face for committing unjust acts in a sandbox, but it shouldn't be a consequence or punishment that is placed on you BY THE DEVELOPER just for committing the act. Players should have the tools to make consequences for committing unlawful or evil acts. There should be a sense of morality in a sandbox, because you can do ANYTHING. Developers haven't made a worthwhile sandbox in quite some time though. Games don't need arbitrary rules about the players you can and can't attack. You should be free you do anything you want, but as in the real world there should be consequences for your actions.

TLDR: I can punch some one in real life, and there are no inherent consequences for JUST ME DOING IT, but I could be charged with assault from some one in authority for doing it, or the man could turn around and punch me for punching him. I don't want to punch him and just be punished by an invisible force that is not apart of my world. I want to punch some one and be punished by an authority that isn't built into the game. Players make other players accountable for their actions, like humans make other humans accountable for their actions.

What would make accountability work?

The same thing that makes accountability work in the real world, people choosing to be accountable for what happens in the area around them, and doing something about it OR NOT. If you don't like murderers, bring those murderers to justice however you see fit! You could kill them, but that would create a cyclical process which wouldn't result in any fun. Developers have the ability to put in systems that may aid in helping make players accountable for what they do, but they shouldn't put in rules that make accountability mandatory. I think a game COULD have a functioning mini justice system if the players wanted, but they would need the proper resources and interface to do it in game. If you want some one to be accountable for murdering a village, you make them accountable. Your character should never be penalized for making a moral/character decision in a game. They should be penalized by other players/conscious forces that see what they did as deplorable. 

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/31/13 11:39:48 AM#51
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

All games don't have to be for everyone. 

Oh yes, they can also fail because they aim such small of a niche that they aren't viable.

You failed to read my post and understand it though... I'm not saying the game should not be FFA PvP. In the game those people create, if they manage to make all those systems as deep as they pretend to (which remains to be proven... promises from "AAA" developers are already often not honored, even less promises from "head up their ass" indies), they could easily do one FFA PvP server and one server with restricted PvP. There would be still enough left to do without the forced PvP, and they would hugely increase their potential player base. This would benefit everyone.

If an indie developer wants to "stir the pot" and try to make things change, he needs to address a larger player base than just some tiny niche. As long as those developers keep on believing "FFA PvP" = "Sandbox", they will never influence the genre, and we will have to stick with what the big development houses provide.

My computer is better than yours.

  Vermillion_Raventhal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/01/04
Posts: 1026

10/31/13 11:54:04 AM#52
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

All games don't have to be for everyone. 

Oh yes, they can also fail because they aim such small of a niche that they aren't viable.

You failed to read my post and understand it though... I'm not saying the game should not be FFA PvP. In the game those people create, if they manage to make all those systems as deep as they pretend to (which remains to be proven... promises from "AAA" developers are already often not honored, even less promises from "head up their ass" indies), they could easily do one FFA PvP server and one server with restricted PvP. There would be still enough left to do without the forced PvP, and they would hugely increase their potential player base. This would benefit everyone.

If an indie developer wants to "stir the pot" and try to make things change, he needs to address a larger player base than just some tiny niche. As long as those developers keep on believing "FFA PvP" = "Sandbox", they will never influence the genre, and we will have to stick with what the big development houses provide.

I know what you are saying but you're still throwing around the niche based.   The biggest sandbox game so far is FFA which is Eve.  Just because there is FFA doesn't mean there aren't not safe areas or partially safe areas.

  Amaranthar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

10/31/13 11:54:30 AM#53
Originally posted by Klayo
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Klayo
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by bcbully
Originally posted by tom_gore

Alright since it seems my point went off the mark here, let me elaborate a bit.

This has already been attempted by Darkfall and Mortal Online. Granted, both are still running (though I hear the latter is in financial trouble) but is there really room for more? We already have ToA contending for this same very, very small niche.

In the meantime, we have exactly zero, ZERO open world sandbox games which would offer consensual (player faction based) PvP, despite the fact the target audience for such a game is MUCH bigger than the FFA Full Loot PvP niche.

I don't know what the developers' expectations are, but I don't think they're aiming for three-digit subscriber/paying customer numbers, which is probably what they will get, at best.

 

Dude you and your crowd don't want a sandbox, you want a themepark with housing. Rules are made by the players with supporting systems in a sandbox. Hard rules like "you can't hit that person in the mouth for being an ass until he checks a box" simply does not belong. 

Exactly! But there should be consequences if you do hit that player in the mouth. You shouldn't be able to just murder someone and not be accountable for it. Otherwise it's just meaningless slaughter which is just as pointless as "tick box so i can attack you".

I completely agree with you. There needs to be a consequence a player should face for committing unjust acts in a sandbox, but it shouldn't be a consequence or punishment that is placed on you BY THE DEVELOPER just for committing the act. Players should have the tools to make consequences for committing unlawful or evil acts. There should be a sense of morality in a sandbox, because you can do ANYTHING. Developers haven't made a worthwhile sandbox in quite some time though. Games don't need arbitrary rules about the players you can and can't attack. You should be free you do anything you want, but as in the real world there should be consequences for your actions.

TLDR: I can punch some one in real life, and there are no inherent consequences for JUST ME DOING IT, but I could be charged with assault from some one in authority for doing it, or the man could turn around and punch me for punching him. I don't want to punch him and just be punished by an invisible force that is not apart of my world. I want to punch some one and be punished by an authority that isn't built into the game. Players make other players accountable for their actions, like humans make other humans accountable for their actions.

What would make accountability work?

The same thing that makes accountability work in the real world, people choosing to be accountable for what happens in the area around them, and doing something about it OR NOT. If you don't like murderers, bring those murderers to justice however you see fit! You could kill them, but that would create a cyclical process which wouldn't result in any fun. Developers have the ability to put in systems that may aid in helping make players accountable for what they do, but they shouldn't put in rules that make accountability mandatory. I think a game COULD have a functioning mini justice system if the players wanted, but they would need the proper resources and interface to do it in game. If you want some one to be accountable for murdering a village, you make them accountable. Your character should never be penalized for making a moral/character decision in a game. They should be penalized by other players/conscious forces that see what they did as deplorable. 

That never works in MMOs. There's no way to hold PKers responsible simply by saying "do something about it". PKers work at finding ways to win, whether it's by scouting for targets they can take, or by surprise gank runs using numbers, or whatever.

Death, if it has no meaning, has no meaning. And the same for everything else players might try. What are you going to do? Not buy from them? They can use "blue" characters you don't know belong to them to sell their ill gotten loot.

An open world PvP game needs to have a system to give the good guys teeth.

Once upon a time....

  Amaranthar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 2171

10/31/13 11:56:34 AM#54

And fortunately, this game has teeth.

An alignment system where PKers lose a lot more skill when they die. And more. This looks like a pretty good system, I like it.

Not a very long read, and worth looking into it...

http://lifeisfeudal.com/mmorpgsandLiF/Death-and-Alignment-in-sandbox-MMO-game-Life-is-Feudal

Once upon a time....

  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 512

10/31/13 11:58:07 AM#55
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

All games don't have to be for everyone. 

Oh yes, they can also fail because they aim such small of a niche that they aren't viable.

You failed to read my post and understand it though... I'm not saying the game should not be FFA PvP. In the game those people create, if they manage to make all those systems as deep as they pretend to (which remains to be proven... promises from "AAA" developers are already often not honored, even less promises from "head up their ass" indies), they could easily do one FFA PvP server and one server with restricted PvP. There would be still enough left to do without the forced PvP, and they would hugely increase their potential player base. This would benefit everyone.

If an indie developer wants to "stir the pot" and try to make things change, he needs to address a larger player base than just some tiny niche. As long as those developers keep on believing "FFA PvP" = "Sandbox", they will never influence the genre, and we will have to stick with what the big development houses provide.

Who said they wanted to change the genre ? Maybe they just want to make a game they would like to play ?

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4774

10/31/13 12:01:44 PM#56
Originally posted by Azoth

Who said they wanted to change the genre ? Maybe they just want to make a game they would like to play ?

All games must aim to be wow killers or they FAIL!!! stop posting your nonsense!!!!

 

/laugh

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/31/13 12:12:20 PM#57
Originally posted by Azoth

Who said they wanted to change the genre ? Maybe they just want to make a game they would like to play ?

Oh, I have no problem with that, it's not my money - they will end like just another "Mortal Online", if not worse, it's their problem. History repeats itself, even for MMORPGs, and some people just never learn from past failure.

My computer is better than yours.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17175

10/31/13 12:13:59 PM#58
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

ok I can play this game too: "wrong."

your thinking is so convoluted.

NeoViper was correct. Why? Because we are talking about a "multiplayer mmo sandbox game".

In a multi-player mmo sandbox game the playres can play how they want within the framework. of the world they create. It's about building exploring, fighting, etc..

Because there can also feasibly be a "Themepark buidling game" where players build things along a predetermined route,. building things has nothing to do with a game being themepark or sandbox.

You are trying to say that because something can manifest itself in a single player sandbox game it defines what a sandbox game is.

And that's just not so.

 

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/31/13 12:19:51 PM#59
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by nerovipus32
Originally posted by Neo_Viper

There we go. Here comes the same vocal minority thinking sandbox automatically means FFA PvP with full loot.

Sandbox means players building stuff in the world given the tools and the sand, it doesn't mean "gank fest".

And you wonder why those indie games fail one after the other.

No sandbox means, player driven communities were the player makes the rules not some dev created script.

Wrong, otherwise there could be no single player sandbox games for instance. Once again, the same crowd confuses "sandbox" and "anarchy".

"Sandbox" is pretty much self explanatory. A place where the player can create stuff. The bullies destroying your creations are NOT necessary for a game to be a sandbox.

I mean, look at the mechanics those people plan to add to their game... There's room for everyone in there. The crafting alone seems awesome. They could triple their potential player base by offering CHOICES. Yet no, it's another "head up his ass" indie developer who will fail because of that proverbial "head up his ass".

ok I can play this game too: "wrong."

your thinking is so convoluted.

NeoViper was correct. Why? Because we are talking about a "multiplayer mmo sandbox game".

In a multi-player mmo sandbox game the playres can play how they want within the framework. of the world they create. It's about building exploring, fighting, etc..

Because there can also feasibly be a "Themepark buidling game" where players build things along a predetermined route,. building things has nothing to do with a game being themepark or sandbox.

You are trying to say that because something can manifest itself in a single player sandbox game it defines what a sandbox game is.

And that's just not so.

There are sandbox multiplayer games without fighting at all, and there are sandbox multiplayer games where PvP is not forced on you.

At Tale in the Desert, for instance. Or Second life, too. Or UO post Trammel, after they saved the game by giving people choices. Or SWG.

Sorry, even the multiplayer element in a sandbox game doesn't automatically involve the "bully" destroying your sand castle.

Hell, when I was a kid, a long time ago, I played lego and also "fisher technic" with friends, and it didn't involve destroying each other's creations.

So yes, I am indeed correct. Sandbox, even multiplayer, doesn't require the "bully" aspect.

My computer is better than yours.

  tom_gore

Novice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

10/31/13 12:30:40 PM#60
Originally posted by Amaranthar

And fortunately, this game has teeth.

An alignment system where PKers lose a lot more skill when they die. And more. This looks like a pretty good system, I like it.

Not a very long read, and worth looking into it...

http://lifeisfeudal.com/mmorpgsandLiF/Death-and-Alignment-in-sandbox-MMO-game-Life-is-Feudal

Problem with punishing PKs extra is that they learn to play around it, or at the very least concentrate only finding fights they know they will win 100% certain, and run from everything else. Didn't stop PKs in UO, they only moved to prey on helpless noobs even more.

 

 

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