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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » If only end game was better

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63 posts found
  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

10/27/13 7:57:27 PM#21

Meh, this thread is so 3 hrs ago.

 

Let's not be afraid to move on, mmmkay?

  Grailer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 819

 
OP  10/27/13 9:10:37 PM#22
Originally posted by Foomerang

I think FFXIV has multiple legit endgames and they are adding more next patch. I can understand if there is not enough of one type or it is boring. Its why there are so many mmos out there. Something for everyone definitely.

 

actually it only has 1 . The Coil .

 

 

  Xatsh

Elite Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 55

10/27/13 11:36:24 PM#23
Originally posted by Grailer
Originally posted by Foomerang

I think FFXIV has multiple legit endgames and they are adding more next patch. I can understand if there is not enough of one type or it is boring. Its why there are so many mmos out there. Something for everyone definitely.

 

actually it only has 1 . The Coil .

 

 

The fact that coil is the only thing droping BIS is the issue with XIV's endgame atm. And the next patch is not changing that so the underlying problem is still there.

Game is just too linear, 1.0 wasn't even this linear , the BIS for every class should not come from 1 event.

The other issue is Token gear being the best drop. It is causing people to just spam the best seal/hr dungeon. If the dungeon gear and darklite drops switched places people would be doing other things way more often. Token gear should be good but worse then the actual drops from the dungeons.

 

So main issues with XIV's endgame:

1) Ultra Linear

2) Token Gear is better then actual drops (Equal to Allegan)

  Grailer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 819

 
OP  10/28/13 2:34:18 AM#24
Originally posted by Xatsh
Originally posted by Grailer
Originally posted by Foomerang

I think FFXIV has multiple legit endgames and they are adding more next patch. I can understand if there is not enough of one type or it is boring. Its why there are so many mmos out there. Something for everyone definitely.

 

actually it only has 1 . The Coil .

 

 

The fact that coil is the only thing droping BIS is the issue with XIV's endgame atm. And the next patch is not changing that so the underlying problem is still there.

Game is just too linear, 1.0 wasn't even this linear , the BIS for every class should not come from 1 event.

The other issue is Token gear being the best drop. It is causing people to just spam the best seal/hr dungeon. If the dungeon gear and darklite drops switched places people would be doing other things way more often. Token gear should be good but worse then the actual drops from the dungeons.

 

So main issues with XIV's endgame:

1) Ultra Linear

2) Token Gear is better then actual drops (Equal to Allegan)

Yeah pretty much . Actually I guess when you look at RIFT end game when it first came out its not so bad .

 

RIFT had  10 dungeons .  5 T1  and 5 T2   ( so basically 5 dungeons you would spam )

2 raids .

 

FFXIV has  5 Primals  ( chimera  , hydra , ifrit , gurada , titan  )

2     8 man story dungeons   

2    4 man dungeons   WP / AK     ( AK being the one people speed run 8x a week  )

1    end game raid  

WOW also had only 1 end game raid when first released . 

 

 

 

 

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4670

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

10/28/13 9:39:32 AM#25


Originally posted by Grailer

Originally posted by Foomerang I think FFXIV has multiple legit endgames and they are adding more next patch. I can understand if there is not enough of one type or it is boring. Its why there are so many mmos out there. Something for everyone definitely.
 

actually it only has 1 . The Coil .


For half the classes, bis is crafted. Coil is irrelevant if you are a dedicated crafter or gatherer. So for all DoL and DoH classes, endgame is not coil.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3307

10/28/13 9:57:47 AM#26

The OP isn't wrong - the "end game" just isn't designed for players like him.

If your thing is focusing on one niche (tanking, in the case of the OP), your gonna hit the end of the road soon - just like the OP did. The game is designed to be horizontal - your supposed to branch out, play other classes, do crafting and gathering, etc.

The game is designed that way. (I think FATE experience kinda dilutes it, but that's my opinion, and doesn't change the underlying philosophy of the game).

It's not that the player is right or wrong, or that the game design is right or wrong, they both just are what they are. You like it or you don't.

  VikingGamer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/08/10
Posts: 1219

The strong are sometimes wrong but the weak are never free.

10/28/13 11:02:44 AM#27

I only got my first class to 50 last night. Still need to complete the storyline. It seems to me that you have only run out of things to do because you spend a lot of time playing. I also notice that you both complain of there not being enough content while also complaining that you cannot burn though it faster because of weekly limits. No game will be able to fill your every waking moment with interesting fun forever. Maybe playing a second game would help.

I am not saying that you are doing it wrong or that your dilemma is not real. It is just simply an observation. You either have a lot of time to play or a lot of drive while you play, probably both. I doubt any newly launched game will ever be able to keep you busy indefinitly.

As for Rift, I don't remember them having any more to do right at launch. Experts and Greenscale. Within a month there was also River of Souls. I think the difference with Rift was the monthly update schedule. You just can't beat Trion for aggressive updating. FFXIV looks like it will be pushing a major update only once a quarter. Hopefully they will be large updates each time to make up for the slower pace. But I certainly wouldn't say that FFXIV has failed to deliver on content and things to do in the over all.

Upd:

Yes, Rift had 10 experts but they were all the leveling dungeons recycled. Definitely a good idea but not exactly the same thing as new instances that you haven't seen before. I understand that the leveling instances in FFXIV will also be given hardmodes as well. Hopefully that will be soon. I am just glad they didn't choose to delay the release until they were ready.

The Law of Conservation of Stupidity:
For every Fan there will be an equally vocal Troll with the opposite opinion.

  EvolvedMonky

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 562

10/28/13 11:09:04 AM#28

So why are so many people grinding low lvl fates and grinding crafting leves in mid level towns? And why do I still get bonuses for low lvl dungeons for having someone running it for the first time?  The way everyone talks on here you would think everyone has multiple lvl 50s and are grinding this one dungeon and are just a few days from doing everything in this game.

 

Took a break from my lvl 40 monk to lvl a WAR and one of these days want to get a bard (played a bard in alot of mmos sooo....) and finally lvl a magic class.

But Assasins creed 4 is about to come out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  so.... that will put a dent in my game time for awhile.

  AmbrosiaAmor

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 734

10/28/13 12:34:36 PM#29
Originally posted by Grailer

Been playing this for a while.

The problem is once you get 50 you farm darklight armor, then you get relic which took forever.

 Then you farm mytho tomestones but you can only get 300 a week.

 So end game is Running AK 8 times.

Find a company that is doing coil, but because there is lock out on coil you need to have same group doing it.

But I can't be online at the same time everyday so end game for me is getting killing Titan. Thus that's it for me done.

 

FFXI Vanilla relics could easily take you a year or two (unless you were a leader of multi-endgame areas and held some specific spots while trio boxing). FFXIV Vanilla relics did take quite some time, but they could have been done in a couple of months... maybe less, I quit by the time patch 1.20 rolled in.

 

FFXIV and the current state of relics are totally different. A hardcore player can easily get a relic in 1-2 days. A semi-hardcore player can get a relic in 3-4 days tops. A casual player should be able to get one within two weeks... wild guess on that part.

  Alamareth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/30/13 8:03:46 AM#30

Wait, how in the world is the end game 8 AKs?  If you are looking to cap out Myth tomes, then you are probably a raider.  If you are a raider you should be in Coil.  If you think the game has no "end game" you should be able to clear Turn 4 every week.

If you could clear Turn 4 every week, you'd only have to do 4 AKs per week to cap out at 300.

Something doesn't add up.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3307

10/30/13 9:29:22 AM#31


Originally posted by Alamareth
Wait, how in the world is the end game 8 AKs?  If you are looking to cap out Myth tomes, then you are probably a raider.  If you are a raider you should be in Coil.  If you think the game has no "end game" you should be able to clear Turn 4 every week.

If you could clear Turn 4 every week, you'd only have to do 4 AKs per week to cap out at 300.

Something doesn't add up.


This assumes a few things:

That end game consists only of progressing on a single class
That a person who has Full DL/Relic+1 (or better) is a raider
That all raiders run Coil
That all raiders are in some coil FC/LS (since it's not DF and has to be done in sequence with the progressive lockouts)

There are problems with the end game right now. I love the game, but to be blind to it's faults is dangerous.

I can understand the need for the Coil lockouts right now, since it's not really supposed to even be there yet and it just serves as some artificial pacing mechanism, but I can't really understand the lack of compelling options or incentives to level alternate classes. There are a lot of features in this game that are severely underutilized (battle leves, dungeons in general, open world encounters (I can only think of 2), etc), and a few that are overly emphasized (FATEs, crafting leves, etc). The tools are mostly already all there, it just needs some rebalance and a little creativity.

Coil should be DF-able. It's an 8-man, many other 8-mans are DF-about. This will probably be possible unless the lockout restriction is removed. I imagine that probably won't happen until there's something in place to do after coil though, or possibly put something in as an alternative to Coil that gives similar-quality gear to be able to make the jump to whatever comes next.

Not that I think every event in the game should be DF-able... but it needs to be accessible, and the lack of DF combined with the restrictive lockout mechanism really serves to block the content from nearly everyone who isn't in some static group dedicated to running it. And perhaps that is the intent - to force the creation of static groups (FC/LS), and that I can understand. I'm not saying Coil needs to be accessible today. But when whatever is next comes out, there needs to be some accessible avenue for people to get to that.

  Laughing-man

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/23/09
Posts: 3348

I thought what I'd do is I'd pretend I was one of those Deaf-mutes.

10/30/13 9:35:16 AM#32
Originally posted by Xatsh

 

2) Token Gear is better then actual drops (Equal to Allegan)

Question: 

How is it bad that the DKP, Valor point, or whatever you want to call it Myth tome gear is EQUAL to raid drop?

That was the intent when justice points were thought up years ago, to make it so it's like the game's version of a DKP, to have a way to force rewards upon people rather than relying solely on RNG.

I think the way FFXIV did it was genius, love it.

  Alamareth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/06
Posts: 591

10/30/13 10:23:10 AM#33
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by Alamareth
Wait, how in the world is the end game 8 AKs?  If you are looking to cap out Myth tomes, then you are probably a raider.  If you are a raider you should be in Coil.  If you think the game has no "end game" you should be able to clear Turn 4 every week.

 

If you could clear Turn 4 every week, you'd only have to do 4 AKs per week to cap out at 300.

Something doesn't add up.


 

This assumes a few things:

That end game consists only of progressing on a single class
That a person who has Full DL/Relic+1 (or better) is a raider
That all raiders run Coil
That all raiders are in some coil FC/LS (since it's not DF and has to be done in sequence with the progressive lockouts)

Are those not reasonable assumptions?  How does one consider him/herself a raider if that person doesn't attempt to clear the highest tier raid in the game?  The myth tomes are for the ilevel 90 gear.  If you wanted to craft you'd go for the Philo tomes which are obtainable from multiple places.  I ignored the fact that you can run WP well for Myths now too.

If you aren't in a FC or LS - you aren't a raider.

There are problems with the end game right now. I love the game, but to be blind to it's faults is dangerous.

Not being blind to the faults, I'm saying the OP comes off a bit clueless.

I can understand the need for the Coil lockouts right now, since it's not really supposed to even be there yet and it just serves as some artificial pacing mechanism, but I can't really understand the lack of compelling options or incentives to level alternate classes. There are a lot of features in this game that are severely underutilized (battle leves, dungeons in general, open world encounters (I can only think of 2), etc), and a few that are overly emphasized (FATEs, crafting leves, etc). The tools are mostly already all there, it just needs some rebalance and a little creativity.

If it can be cleared, it is designed to be there.  It's not a placeholder.  My group cleared Turn 4 yesterday (2 hour clear total time, including practice).  The top tier guild cleared Turn 5 this week.  The inclusion of lower content in 2.1 doesn't mean that Coil isn't a "real" end game.

Coil should be DF-able. It's an 8-man, many other 8-mans are DF-about. This will probably be possible unless the lockout restriction is removed. I imagine that probably won't happen until there's something in place to do after coil though, or possibly put something in as an alternative to Coil that gives similar-quality gear to be able to make the jump to whatever comes next.

Absolutely not.  The mechanics require high group coordination.  You just don't find that in the DF.  Yoshi will not put this onto the DF in the foreseeable future.  He specifically stated he wants people actively looking for a team to tackle that content.

Not that I think every event in the game should be DF-able... but it needs to be accessible, and the lack of DF combined with the restrictive lockout mechanism really serves to block the content from nearly everyone who isn't in some static group dedicated to running it. And perhaps that is the intent - to force the creation of static groups (FC/LS), and that I can understand. I'm not saying Coil needs to be accessible today. But when whatever is next comes out, there needs to be some accessible avenue for people to get to that.

It is accessible.  Get your relic, get in DL, and find a team.  Make it accessible next year.

  Cymdai

Novice Member

Joined: 6/05/05
Posts: 1082

It's my job to be objective, it's my right to have an opinion.

11/01/13 7:53:21 PM#34

I've been trying to explain this since the middle of September to people. The problem is, the MMO apologists/defenders really just do their damnedest to beat down logical, mathematical facts with their ill-informed opinions and pre-conceived notions.

When you hit 50, you farm Tomes. 300 Mythology tomes a week, capped. Your relic +1 is 900, and then there is your AF2 set whihc (I can't recall... but I wanna say is somewhere around 2000ish total?)

2900ish seals; 10 weeks.  Note, it wouldn't take 10 weeks were it not for the cap, but because of it, you can't do any more.

Let's say you're like me, and the idea of leveling another combat class in this game makes you physically sick. So you've got your level 50 class, and maybe a few lower leveled classes, and some crafts.

Now what? There isn't anything else to do for you. The problem is, people are flaming the players instead of the game, and honestly, I think this is what casuals do. Just like hardcore players cry about "carebear mechanics", casuals, and ezmode gameplay, casuals flame back by screaming "Get a life/job/gf/, go outside, etc."

Once you hit that 50, you're running AK 4-8 times a week (depending on whether or not you have a BC group). It takes maybe 30-35 minutes. At best, you're spending roughly 2.5 hours in AK, at worst, you're spending 4 hours a week in AK.

If people think that spending 4 hours a week in an MMORPG entails not having a life, then you need to brush up on the genre.

And for a lot of people, that's how much you'll play post-50. You might log in to chat, craft a little bit, etc, but beyond that, you'll either help guildies, play with friends, or cave in and level another class.

The point I'm getting at is that a brand new game typically doesn't make you only want to play it for 4 hours a week. Yet with FFXIV, after that 4th hour, you're left with the feeling of "Whew... thank god that's over for the week!"

And that right there? That is the problem. There's nothing else for you to do at all (yet).

Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...

  Aori

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/28/06
Posts: 1749

11/01/13 8:00:59 PM#35

I took a break, I haven't done any real endgame. I have 1 50, every other DoW/DoL is above 25+.. but I kind of lost steam. I have a 6 month sub though, so I hop in to spend some leve allocations. I find the game enjoyable but in moderation. It isn't something that I can dump hour after hour in, at least right now.

If it weren't for PoE starting up its leagues, I probably would be playing a bit more FFXIV.. but right now PoE is entertaining me more.

  Ppiper

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/08/13
Posts: 646

11/01/13 8:06:17 PM#36
Originally posted by Aori

I took a break, I haven't done any real endgame. I have 1 50, every other DoW/DoL is above 25+.. but I kind of lost steam. I have a 6 month sub though, so I hop in to spend some leve allocations. I find the game enjoyable but in moderation. It isn't something that I can dump hour after hour in, at least right now.

If it weren't for PoE starting up its leagues, I probably would be playing a bit more FFXIV.. but right now PoE is entertaining me more.

interesting, I may pick this up.

  Grailer

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/13/06
Posts: 819

 
OP  11/01/13 9:54:11 PM#37

I agree Coil should be DF . It has a gear check, you need DL and relic to unlock it .

Right now Im in a FC that is doing coil , they are making solid coil groups .

I probably play this game more hours a week than most average players .

Can I join my FC coil group ? No because I cant play at certain times  .

 

The entire FC would have to revolve around my job schedule which is shift work  days / nights  4 on 4 off .

 

One Monday I might be free, the next I might be working night shift .

 

 

 

 

Suffice to say Im stuck to waiting for shouts  LF1M for TURN 2  ..

 

 

: as of now Ive hit my 300 limit for the week , speed running WP or AK depending on what I want to do . Queing as tank is instant so no worries there . But once I get my 300 limit .  I really have nothing to do . Crafting isn't my cup of tea and playing another class is not an option either because for example .

 

I switched to healer , que for dungeon . 30 mins I get dungeon ,  tank was in bad gear couldn't hold agro , wipe wipe wipe , tank left ,  game over .    

30 MINUTE QUE TIMES ? WTF

  Agrias34

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/09
Posts: 146

11/01/13 10:05:16 PM#38

Ya, if only every game's end game content was better then we would never need new games and could just all play the same one forever.

 

End game content is what you make of it, and there is more on the way.  People get too burnt out of a game after only 1 month because they expect to be occupied 100% of the time. 

  k11keeper

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/15/04
Posts: 1033

"" "" "" ""

11/01/13 10:05:32 PM#39
Originally posted by Grailer

I agree Coil should be DF . It has a gear check, you need DL and relic to unlock it .

Right now Im in a FC that is doing coil , they are making solid coil groups .

I probably play this game more hours a week than most average players .

Can I join my FC coil group ? No because I cant play at certain times  .

 The entire FC would have to revolve around my job schedule which is shift work  days / nights  4 on 4 off .

One Monday I might be free, the next I might be working night shift .

Suffice to say Im stuck to waiting for shouts  LF1M for TURN 2  ..

Don't feel bad I'm in the same boat. With my work schedule I can't set a day and meet a specific time each week. Say for instance friday nights at 9:00 pm est like my FC. Sometime I work friday nights sometimes I don't so that spot goes to someone who can be there every Friday night. Same thing (diff times) with the second and third group in my fc so I'm SOL. So I capped points Tuesday morning and haven't picked up the game the rest of the week and haven't missed it. I'm not about to join shout groups either too much down time in a game designed against downtime.

I wish they hadn't ruined ffxi....

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3307

11/01/13 10:13:27 PM#40


Originally posted by Grailer
I agree Coil should be DF . It has a gear check, you need DL and relic to unlock it .

Right now Im in a FC that is doing coil , they are making solid coil groups .

I probably play this game more hours a week than most average players .

Can I join my FC coil group ? No because I cant play at certain times  .

The entire FC would have to revolve around my job schedule which is shift work  days / nights  4 on 4 off .


One Monday I might be free, the next I might be working night shift .
 

Suffice to say Im stuck to waiting for shouts  LF1M for TURN 2  ..


This is exactly my situation. I have full DL, +1, will have a bit of i90 gear by the end of the week. I'm in a FC I enjoy, they have 4 crews in Coil right now, 3 of them clearing Turn 4.

But none of them match my highly variable schedule. I've never set foot into Coil. I could go looking for a random PUG shouting for one more, but I go work on other classes or crafting instead of camping out on Costa or Mor Dhona waiting on that shout for one off-chance run a week.

It's not as easy as "Just go find a group" - because of the lockout mechanism. I see groups shouting for Turn2/3/4, but can't join any of them unless I've cleared 1, and they can't go back and clear 1 with me. So we all get futbuked.

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