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General Discussion  » Is EQ nostalgia clouding people's judgement?

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125 posts found
  jmd10222

Novice Member

Joined: 2/08/04
Posts: 428

10/26/13 6:42:02 PM#81
Originally posted by Binny45

I don't want EQ1 back.  I had a lot of fun with that game, met AMAZING people and will never recapture that feeling.   What I would love to see however was the attention to detail on things like:

1) Adventurous dungeons - I don't mean a single path that takes you on rails.  I'm talking a big huge space that requires a thinking group of five or six people to get through and accomplish something

2) Epic Quests - When I got my singing short sword after 9 months of working on it, the sense of satisfaction was beyond belief.  I've NEVER had that same feeling in any MMO since.

3) Lore - EQ has by far the best lore of any MMO.  The stories are unreal!  And I loved how the devs incorporated that into the game with special events and expansions.

4) GM Events - To date I've not seen a game that could match EQ for GM events.  The GM's in EQ did some great work there.

5) Sense of Adventure in the open world - When playing EQ, there was always something new to see.  Zones I'd never explored.  Starting cities to get to know.  

6) Socialization - EQ required people to be at least modestly behaved.  Your reputation was your bond.  If you screwed over other players, it didn't matter how "1337" you were, you were social pariah and no one had anything to do with you.  This kept people in check.

7) Crafting - In EQ there was always a chance of failure.  Yeah it sucked, but it made a success worth all the more.

8) Character Details and Factions - I LOVED how things like choice of religion or race had an outcome on NPC interaction.  I also loved how you could change this, regardless of race and/or religion.  It sometimes took an amazing amount of hard work, but it was possible. (Had a dark elf able to walk the halls of Felwithe )

Great list.  Those are all the things that made EQ great  (except mabey the failure rate of making sow potions lol). It can never be the same, but I love the concept of what they are doing. I just hope they can deliver.

  Kilrain

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/25/03
Posts: 524

10/26/13 8:13:55 PM#82
Originally posted by Sixpax
Originally posted by Kilrain

Everyone wants the same basic thing. It's the feeling they had when playing original EQ or SWG or "input your first MMO". The feeling of NEW, undiscovered, deep, engaging and rewarding.

To answer the OP, no, their judgement isn't being "clouded" by anything. They, including myself, remember that amazing feeling of being a part of something amazing and want it back.

That's where the cloudiness comes in though... you want that feeling back but the stark reality is you'll never get it back.  You didn't get that feeling because EQ was some amazing, well designed game.  You got that feeling because it wasn't like anything you had experienced before.

No, you are mistaken. EQ was all the things I mentioned in the above post. So was any MMO that was a persons first love for MMO's. It doesn't matter what the game is or how it was made. It was that first extraordinary feeling that we got when first becoming part of such a huge and awesome thing that was an MMORPG. We just want that feeling again. I got that feeling once again when experiencing EVE and PVP for about 3 years, it was fkn epic. Then the pvp thing grew on me and I played DF for almost the time it was online. Now I want something different. Don't care if its PvP or not as long as it can get me hooked, and bring back all those feelings I mentioned above.

professional web programming and design.

  azarhal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/06/09
Posts: 589

10/27/13 4:12:00 PM#83
Originally posted by Binny45

I don't want EQ1 back.  I had a lot of fun with that game, met AMAZING people and will never recapture that feeling.   What I would love to see however was the attention to detail on things like:

1) Adventurous dungeons - I don't mean a single path that takes you on rails.  I'm talking a big huge space that requires a thinking group of five or six people to get through and accomplish something

2) Epic Quests - When I got my singing short sword after 9 months of working on it, the sense of satisfaction was beyond belief.  I've NEVER had that same feeling in any MMO since.

3) Lore - EQ has by far the best lore of any MMO.  The stories are unreal!  And I loved how the devs incorporated that into the game with special events and expansions.

4) GM Events - To date I've not seen a game that could match EQ for GM events.  The GM's in EQ did some great work there.

5) Sense of Adventure in the open world - When playing EQ, there was always something new to see.  Zones I'd never explored.  Starting cities to get to know.  

6) Socialization - EQ required people to be at least modestly behaved.  Your reputation was your bond.  If you screwed over other players, it didn't matter how "1337" you were, you were social pariah and no one had anything to do with you.  This kept people in check.

7) Crafting - In EQ there was always a chance of failure.  Yeah it sucked, but it made a success worth all the more.

8) Character Details and Factions - I LOVED how things like choice of religion or race had an outcome on NPC interaction.  I also loved how you could change this, regardless of race and/or religion.  It sometimes took an amazing amount of hard work, but it was possible. (Had a dark elf able to walk the halls of Felwithe )

I haven't played EQ1 and I want these things in my MMO. Well, maybe not GM events, in the sense that I'm fine if the controlling is done through scripting and not an actual person. I like one time only and special events...

So, it can't be nostalgia right?

  AmbrosiaAmor

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/10
Posts: 905

10/28/13 1:24:15 PM#84

I will be 100% honest I do suffer a bit from the EQ I and II nostalgia. I just don't want them to create yet another themepark game that is going to be so streamlined and so easy that you can practically experience 98% of the content in less than 1 month... like most AAA themepark games have been for the past 3-4 years. Hell if you would bring back EQ II Vanilla today, most would consider that hardcore (comparing EQ II Vanilla with current themepark games). It doesn't have to be like MMOs prior to 2005 but don't do a 180 turn and hand "almost" everything to us so easily.

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 603

10/28/13 2:58:43 PM#85
New technologies make new forms of gameplay possible. How could they make EQ3 with vowels and emergent AI? The whole gameplay has to be built around the new tech not the new tech being shoehorned into the old EQ template.
  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3569

10/28/13 3:47:49 PM#86
Originally posted by donpopuki
New technologies make new forms of gameplay possible. How could they make EQ3 with vowels and emergent AI? The whole gameplay has to be built around the new tech not the new tech being shoehorned into the old EQ template.

     I'm a little confused..  How is technology and game play related or reliant upon each other..  One has no relationship with the other.. And what is the "OLD" EQ template?  I actually enjoyed the weight, food and drink requirements, and wish they were brought back to RPG gaming..  Why was kiting removed RPG gaming?  Can I mez and charm a mob and make it my pet for a prolong period of time?  Since the turn of the century I see a lot of RPG mechanics tossed to the side in the name of convenience..  From where I sit, today's technology could of enhanced the former EQ game into something wonderful.. But oh well.. Maybe one day some company might reinstall those old RPG traits back into a game without the EQ name and I'll be there on day 1 to play it.. 

     Tis a shame that Vanguard was backstabbed into submission. :(

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 603

10/28/13 8:04:43 PM#87
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by donpopuki
New technologies make new forms of gameplay possible. How could they make EQ3 with vowels and emergent AI? The whole gameplay has to be built around the new tech not the new tech being shoehorned into the old ESQ template.

     I'm a little confused..  How is technology and game play related or reliant upon each other..  One has no relationship with the other.. And what is the "OLD" ESQ template?  I actually enjoyed the weight, food and drink requirements, and wish they were brought back to RPG gaming..  Why was kiting removed RPG gaming?  Can I mez and charm a mob and make it my pet for a prolong period of time?  Since the turn of the century I see a lot of RPG mechanics tossed to the side in the name of convenience..  From where I sit, today's technology could of enhanced the former EQ game into something wonderful.. But oh well.. Maybe one day some company might reinstall those old RPG traits back into a game without the EQ name and I'll be there on day 1 to play it.. 

     Tis a shame that Vanguard was backstabbed into submission. :(

Much like 3D gave rise to first person shooters and the internet gave rise to MMOs, voxels and emergent AI will spawn a new type of game experience. It's not just about graphics. The EQ template involved static camps, static quests and a static world. Things like having encumbrance, needing food and long travel times are just seasoning, major components like how the world is put together are the meat and potatoes.

Keep in mind the underlying goal of a MMORPG in the beginning was to replicate the table top Dungeons and Dragons experience. Somewhere along the way the EQ template got adopted as the standard which other companies tried to copy. The thing is they were copying EQ not D&D so the "spirit" of the experience got lost in translation.

A game that allows you to build and destroy the environment, where mobs roam around according to their like and dislikes and can be eliminated permanently with in game with real consequences is fundamentally a different game. It also makes for a much deeper meaningful experience that simulates real life more closely.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3569

10/30/13 1:46:47 PM#88
Originally posted by donpopuki
Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by donpopuki
New technologies make new forms of gameplay possible. How could they make EQ3 with vowels and emergent AI? The whole gameplay has to be built around the new tech not the new tech being shoehorned into the old ESQ template.

     I'm a little confused..  How is technology and game play related or reliant upon each other..  One has no relationship with the other.. And what is the "OLD" ESQ template?  I actually enjoyed the weight, food and drink requirements, and wish they were brought back to RPG gaming..  Why was kiting removed RPG gaming?  Can I mez and charm a mob and make it my pet for a prolong period of time?  Since the turn of the century I see a lot of RPG mechanics tossed to the side in the name of convenience..  From where I sit, today's technology could of enhanced the former EQ game into something wonderful.. But oh well.. Maybe one day some company might reinstall those old RPG traits back into a game without the EQ name and I'll be there on day 1 to play it.. 

     Tis a shame that Vanguard was backstabbed into submission. :(

Much like 3D gave rise to first person shooters and the internet gave rise to MMOs, voxels and emergent AI will spawn a new type of game experience. It's not just about graphics. The EQ template involved static camps, static quests and a static world.  (You say that as if something is wrong with static mobs or camps.. There are locations in the real world what static exist and works..  Now granted GW2 did something new with DE's and flexible encounters, but it fell short.. There technology didn't increase my experience but lessened it..) Things like having encumbrance, needing food and long travel times are just seasoning, major components like how the world is put together are the meat and potatoes.

Keep in mind the underlying goal of a MMORPG in the beginning was to replicate the table top Dungeons and Dragons experience. Somewhere along the way the EQ template got adopted as the standard which other companies tried to copy. The thing is they were copying EQ not D&D so the "spirit" of the experience got lost in translation.

A game that allows you to build and destroy the environment, (I've seen games like this and when you don't police the conduct of the players, it will be used as a tool to grieve others.. As much as I thought customizing the world would be great like SWG, it failed in the end.. Leave the environment up to the devs only..)  where mobs roam around according to their like and dislikes and can be eliminated permanently with in game with real consequences is fundamentally a different game. It also makes for a much deeper meaningful experience that simulates real life more closely. Again I'll pass on players having that much effect on the game world.. The potential to negatively effect the world is too great and too much of a temptation for the children to ignore.. 

 

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 603

10/30/13 3:24:04 PM#89
Rydeson, you seem to want a very controlled environment and are very comfortable with the current MMO template. I on the other hand have grown tired of the template. Some like their old shoes while others start to notice the holes and stench.
  grifj

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/13
Posts: 111

10/30/13 6:20:41 PM#90
Originally posted by Enrif

Peoples that think making and old game with a fresh design is the way to go, don't realize how much the nostalgia is clouding their view.

 

Saying this over and over again doesn't make it true.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3569

10/31/13 5:29:21 AM#91
Originally posted by donpopuki
Rydeson, you seem to want a very controlled environment and are very comfortable with the current MMO template. I on the other hand have grown tired of the template. Some like their old shoes while others start to notice the holes and stench.

     It has nothing to do with what you call a template..  It has everything to do with players exploiting and abusing game world mechanics, just for shits and giggles..   I have yet to hear of any game that proves me wrong..  I know how "BORED" players get, and what they will do IF given the chance.. Why do you think the devs at EQ Next have already stated there will be NO DESTROYING of anything in large public areas like cities..  Because they know what will happen.. 

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 603

10/31/13 7:00:09 AM#92
So you are saying that because EQN deviates from the traditional formula by instituting dynamic sandbox elements it will be a horrible experience based on the assumption the probability of griefing will increase? I reject that notion.

Your assuming it is impossible to create a game with dynamic sandbox elements without proper controls to curb griefing. SWG did not fail because of its sandbox elements, I would say it's was the strongest feature. Griefing wasn't rampant in that game. In fact the game which I've experienced the most griefing was EQ1 with kill stealing, ninja looting and trains. Despite the griefing in EQ1 I enjoyed the game and I would venture to say griefing added an extra element of fun.

Today's games are moving towards elimating griefing all together. Problem is how do you differentiate between nice players and assholes? Without darkness we can't see light. Watching other players behave gave have me a sense of their morales which in turn helped me pick out people I wanted to play with and which ones to avoid. It made me want to seek out nice players and build social bonds with them.
  Kharisha

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 38

10/31/13 7:24:25 AM#93

Jesus....

I like how people discuss here about oldschool gaming feel. but in reality you can have the same feeling about grouping and raids in World Of Warcraft which to this date does everything right. It has the biggest MMO community to date with strong guilds that compete against each other.

People here just want to resurrect old games that are dead. Dead because they were not prepared for 10 year life cycle or anything. These games have primitive gameplay in it's core. It is time to let it go.

New Everquest promises a lot, but at the same time I feel a Fresh new start and that's what EQ developers want. They don't want to make old games anymore because they have a lot of features that are outdated in 2013+

You can flame on your forums as much as you want, but I'm going to enjoy my Everquest Landmark this Winter at launch and will probably pay something at launch for some edition or will embrace new F2P model.

  Xthos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

10/31/13 5:34:02 PM#94
Originally posted by Kharisha

Jesus....

I like how people discuss here about oldschool gaming feel. but in reality you can have the same feeling about grouping and raids in World Of Warcraft which to this date does everything right. It has the biggest MMO community to date with strong guilds that compete against each other.

People here just want to resurrect old games that are dead. Dead because they were not prepared for 10 year life cycle or anything. These games have primitive gameplay in it's core. It is time to let it go.

New Everquest promises a lot, but at the same time I feel a Fresh new start and that's what EQ developers want. They don't want to make old games anymore because they have a lot of features that are outdated in 2013+

You can flame on your forums as much as you want, but I'm going to enjoy my Everquest Landmark this Winter at launch and will probably pay something at launch for some edition or will embrace new F2P model.

 Hmm, I must of missed this, what dead game are people trying to resurrect that isn't prepared to run 10 years?

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

11/01/13 10:26:12 AM#95

Well... a bit enthusiastic selfdelusion isn't too bad. I mean, how could we bear life if not a bit self delusion? Who would want to live in the constant cold light of bare truth?

I try to look at EQN with as much hope as I can muster.

 

...

And then bitch later about it, when nothing came true. lol. Such is life. ;)

Look at it like this: if we all saw our girlfriends or boyfriends as they truly are BEFORE marriage, many would be single. A bit optimism! ^^

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  sirphobos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/11
Posts: 616

11/01/13 11:13:53 AM#96

I seriously doubt there are more than a handful of people out there that would want a MMORPG that plays like EQ1 did during the first few years of its existence.  I loved EQ1, but I don't want to see any of the following again:

  1. Camping a single rare spawn for 20 hours to get a rare drop.
  2. Losing five hours of XP time because I made one mistake and died.
  3. Cancelling a group because you can't find a cleric/warrior/enchanter.
  4. Five minutes of downtime every time I run out of mana.
  5. Racing other guilds for raid spawns (and the 1 AM phone calls that go along with that).
That being said, there are a lot of things that EQ1 had that I do miss that aren't present in any modern game, and seemingly won't be present in EQ:N either.
  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2098

11/01/13 1:20:38 PM#97


Originally posted by sirphobos
I seriously doubt there are more than a handful of people out there that would want a MMORPG that plays like EQ1 did during the first few years of its existence.  I loved EQ1, but I don't want to see any of the following again: [*] Camping a single rare spawn for 20 hours to get a rare drop. [*] Losing five hours of XP time because I made one mistake and died. [*] Cancelling a group because you can't find a cleric/warrior/enchanter.
Five minutes of downtime every time I run out of mana.
Racing other guilds for raid spawns (and the 1 AM phone calls that go along with that).
That being said, there are a lot of things that EQ1 had that I do miss that aren't present in any modern game, and seemingly won't be present in EQ:N either.

A valid point but I would argue that a kernel of each of those I would be excited about.

1. I enjoy camping a rare spawn a long time to get a reward, I hate when loot is just handed out like candy. 20 hours is excessive and more importantly camping one spawn point is silly, rares should be spread out over an area.

2. I'm all for XP loss on death, death should stink and you should want to avoid it. 5 hours might be excessive but I'd be fine with 1 hour.

3. I never cancelled a group for lack of one of those classes in EQ so can't really argue that. You never at any point needed a perfectly balanced group to do non raid content in EQ. I much prefer a game with roles over one that you just mass DPS in like most of WoW now and GW2.

4. 5 Minuets of downtime was too much but if EQ with a clarity buff had about the proper pacing. These games where you just fill up instantly and never have to manage your resources really lose something compared to the older games.

5. Well I played on a PvP server and this didn't usually happen but yeah that isn't a good mechanic, though I do prefer that over everyone gets their own copy of the raid boss personally.

  User Deleted
11/01/13 1:24:36 PM#98
Originally posted by sirphobos

 

That being said, there are a lot of things that EQ1 had that I do miss that aren't present in any modern game, and seemingly won't be present in EQ:N either.

Examples? 

  Metrobius

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/05
Posts: 93

11/01/13 3:06:31 PM#99
Looks like Brad McQuaid is kickstarting a new eq successor. Maybe that will make some people happy.
  Xthos

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

11/02/13 5:55:24 AM#100
Originally posted by Metrobius
Looks like Brad McQuaid is kickstarting a new eq successor. Maybe that will make some people happy.

 I really liked VG, BUT he better do something to ease peoples fears of him actually being in charge....Let him provide ideas and such, but if he is the final say and in charge of everything, his VG past will bite him and this will go no where probably.

 

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