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General Discussion  » Is EQ nostalgia clouding people's judgement?

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125 posts found
  Hariken

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/15/13
Posts: 509

10/25/13 10:55:42 AM#61
Originally posted by Sixpax

Is it just me or does it seem like most of the people looking forward to EQN just want EQ resurrected.  I'm indifferent on the game right now, so this isn't a slant on it, but I keep getting the impression that a lot of posters are suffering from a serious case of EQ nostalgia and letting it cloud their judgement. I wonder just how long they really would play the game they are hoping EQN delivers.  I remember the good ole days of MMORPG's as well as anybody, and have very fond memories of that time, but I don't know if trying to bring that style of game play back is a formula for success or a recipe for disaster.

Your so right. But you will just have to wait and see when the game comes out. Also think about how just about every new game here gets pumped up before its even released. I don't ever buy into fanboy hype on any game on this site or any site. The Devs promise the world and give little with mmo's these days. All the talk around this game from them could change any minute.

  Venger

Novice Member

Joined: 8/03/04
Posts: 1322

Help Fight Global Warming
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10/25/13 11:07:26 AM#62

I never liked EQ myself.  Tried it then ran back to UO at a full sprint.  I think it has some good concepts but I felt UO had a better character design philosophy.  Personally I am hoping for  UO/EQ mix up.  Where I think EQ went off the rails is they made it to much of a grind without enough smaller milestones to reach.  Character growth can be challenging without being a mind numbing grind between levels.

To the point of the thread there are a lot of vocal people that think EQ was the end all be all for mmo design.  I wouldn't say they are being blinded by nostalgia.  I think this is what they really like.  Whether EQN feels they are enough to build EQN around or not time will tell.

  Badaboom

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

10/25/13 11:11:29 AM#63
Originally posted by Sixpax

Is it just me or does it seem like most of the people looking forward to EQN just want EQ resurrected.  I'm indifferent on the game right now, so this isn't a slant on it, but I keep getting the impression that a lot of posters are suffering from a serious case of EQ nostalgia and letting it cloud their judgement. I wonder just how long they really would play the game they are hoping EQN delivers.  I remember the good ole days of MMORPG's as well as anybody, and have very fond memories of that time, but I don't know if trying to bring that style of game play back is a formula for success or a recipe for disaster.

I'm late to the conversation but I would like you to clarify.  Are you saying that EQ was bad and unworthy of nostalgia?  Are you saying the features in the old game are inferior to potential new features of the new game?  I would like to better understand your bias.

  Gardavsshade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/27/11
Posts: 621

10/25/13 11:29:28 AM#64
Originally posted by pierth

How is that different from when any other game is being released? It seems people want SWG, EQ1, AC, or DAOC resurrected.

Yes some of us, a minority of course, want... desire... to see our favorite old MMOs get new graphics for the world and the characters/mobs, and perhaps a new game engine, but KEEP the game mechanics, the "Feel" of the old game, the world layout, almost all features of the original (or near original) game.

In other words.... Just give them a "new paint job" and a "tune-up" but "keep them Stock" and re-release them to us who want them back and to a newer generation of Gamer that might... just might fall in love with them as we did.

Why is this considered a bad thing?

Why do we want this? Because we liked how the games played then, we liked their "feel", we liked how we had to devote for time and energy to accomplishing goals in the older games as compared to MMOs now... we liked how the older game mechanics worked as compared to the newer MMOs that have supposedly "better" game mechanics (point of contention right here). I could continue the list but this is enough to get across my point.

and the game mechanics we enjoyed more were in the older MMOs, which is a big part of why we would like to see our old MMOs repainted and given a tuneup and brought back as Classics. Real Classics, not what Mythic did with DAoC.

( yes I know MMO Dev Teams don't keep old Code, but who's fault is that?  The old MMOs could be re-created if a Dev Team chooses to do so, for not all of the Documentation is lost, the Dev Teams and their Masters just choose not to bring back and revamp the old MMOs.... because we who want the old MMOs back are "not the customers they are looking for".)

 

As for the OP's question, even I know that answer... for it was SOE that gave it.... EQN isn't being made to be EQ3 and that is what many of the EQ fans wanted... OF COURSE they will be disappointed in EQN.... that's a no brainer.

 


Nothing to see here... just another MMO Ghost....

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

 
OP  10/25/13 12:40:16 PM#65
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by Sixpax

Is it just me or does it seem like most of the people looking forward to EQN just want EQ resurrected.  I'm indifferent on the game right now, so this isn't a slant on it, but I keep getting the impression that a lot of posters are suffering from a serious case of EQ nostalgia and letting it cloud their judgement. I wonder just how long they really would play the game they are hoping EQN delivers.  I remember the good ole days of MMORPG's as well as anybody, and have very fond memories of that time, but I don't know if trying to bring that style of game play back is a formula for success or a recipe for disaster.

I'm late to the conversation but I would like you to clarify.  Are you saying that EQ was bad and unworthy of nostalgia?  Are you saying the features in the old game are inferior to potential new features of the new game?  I would like to better understand your bias.

Good question.  Actually it has nothing to do with the quality of EQ.  My point is that the old EQ players are lobbying for EQN to be a resurrected, modernized version of the original game because they have such fond memories of it, but that's not because of the game design.  It's because it was something brand new that they never experienced before.  So they are letting the nostalgia of EQ convince them that to get that old feeling back, EQN must follow the same game design.  In reality, the opposite is true... in order to experience the same feeling that EQ gave them, EQN will have to be something completely new that they've never experienced before.  Taking the old EQ design and dropping it into a game with a better engine/graphics/world won't give them what they are looking for.

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  pierth

Novice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1515

10/25/13 1:01:34 PM#66


Originally posted by FinalFikus

Originally posted by pierth  

Originally posted by Maelzrael

Originally posted by pierth How is that different from when any other game is being released? It seems people want SWG, EQ1, AC, or DAOC resurrected.
Funny thing is if they did this there would be people saying how stupid it is to do stuff from 10-15 years ago and how there's nothing original about any of them.  People want what they can't have typically. Or perhaps we don't even know what we want until it falls into our lap. 
  I'd agree with both sentiments- you could give players the exact features they ask for and if it isn't set up a certain way they'll still complain. On top of this I find there are quite a few people that like to talk/complain/reminisce about MMORPGs here more than they enjoy actually playing them so it's pretty moot.
If you look at the only common factor among all those games of old that people adore you can 'understand' what people are saying.

If you don't bother you end up repeating what others have said before you,  and were possibly wrong.

 

Are you going to look? Or are you just complaining about people because secretly, you really hate all human life as a hobby?


And what do you perceive that common factor to be?


Originally posted by Gardavsshade

Originally posted by pierth How is that different from when any other game is being released? It seems people want SWG, EQ1, AC, or DAOC resurrected.
Yes some of us, a minority of course, want... desire... to see our favorite old MMOs get new graphics for the world and the characters/mobs, and perhaps a new game engine, but KEEP the game mechanics, the "Feel" of the old game, the world layout, almost all features of the original (or near original) game.

In other words.... Just give them a "new paint job" and a "tune-up" but "keep them Stock" and re-release them to us who want them back and to a newer generation of Gamer that might... just might fall in love with them as we did.

Why is this considered a bad thing?

Why do we want this? Because we liked how the games played then, we liked their "feel", we liked how we had to devote for time and energy to accomplishing goals in the older games as compared to MMOs now... we liked how the older game mechanics worked as compared to the newer MMOs that have supposedly "better" game mechanics (point of contention right here). I could continue the list but this is enough to get across my point.

and the game mechanics we enjoyed more were in the older MMOs, which is a big part of why we would like to see our old MMOs repainted and given a tuneup and brought back as Classics. Real Classics, not what Mythic did with DAoC.

( yes I know MMO Dev Teams don't keep old Code, but who's fault is that? The old MMOs could be re-created if a Dev Team chooses to do so, for not all of the Documentation is lost, the Dev Teams and their Masters just choose not to bring back and revamp the old MMOs.... because we who want the old MMOs back are "not the customers they are looking for".)

As for the OP's question, even I know that answer... for it was SOE that gave it.... EQN isn't being made to be EQ3 and that is what many of the EQ fans wanted... OF COURSE they will be disappointed in EQN.... that's a no brainer.


I didn't claim it was a bad thing. The OP has been registered here since '05 and even cursory glances at these boards any time a new MMO is being discussed (particularly when there is little verified info available) reflect that a lot of people just want an updated version of the games I named above, which is why I don't quite understand the point of the original post.


It seems akin to going outdoors, pointing up and asking if the sky appears a bit blue today. The answer: duh.


As for the sentiments in the thread about trying to get that feeling back from their first MMO experience- it's not just the game itself that created that experience and the older that game/experience was the more impossible it will be to get it back.

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3204

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

10/25/13 1:26:35 PM#67

All I can say is that for me, yes, my EQ nostalgia is clouding my outlook on EQN.

I won't be revisiting the Norrath I once knew (similarly why I had trouble getting into EQ2) and had years of fun in. The changes they are making (and I agree EQ needs some changes) are not what I would like to see in the game.

SOE would have done MUCH better, in my opinion, not connecting their new game to EverQuest in any way, shape, or form. Instead, they wanted to rope in their old playerbase and it looks like they are giving them an MMO nothing like the MMORPG that the old players had fun with. It is obvious to me, that they instead want to draw in a greater number of new players, not the old ones. This is fine. I have no qualms with that. I just think is quite disingenuous of them to title it "EQ:Next."

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

 
OP  10/25/13 1:28:05 PM#68
Originally posted by pierth

...which is why I don't quite understand the point of the original post.

It seems akin to going outdoors, pointing up and asking if the sky appears a bit blue today. The answer: duh.

I'm just trying to get people who loved EQ to think about what they are looking for in EQN, and if they truly believe that trying to make EQN into a modernized version of EQ would even be something they'd play today.  Speaking for myself, I would give almost anything to return to those glory days that I remember so fondly, but you couldn't pay me to play a game that follows the same game design now.

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  Enrif

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/06/13
Posts: 145

10/25/13 4:57:42 PM#69

Peoples that think making and old game with a fresh design is the way to go, don't realize how much the nostalgia is clouding their view.

I played not long ago a game i played over 15 years ago the last time.

My memories of the game were "its a great game, why didn't they remaked it?"

But after playing it again,it was more like"well some nice things, but overall meh

And that has two reasons. In my Memory it was better then it really was, cause i didnt played it for so long my memroy got foggy about the nasty things and only remained the good ones. Secondly, over the last 15 years i evolved as a player through many games and have now other views on them,then 15 years ago.

 

 

So all the people who liked their games back then wouldn't like it today, if it would be sold to them as a new one

  donpopuki

Novice Member

Joined: 4/06/12
Posts: 599

10/26/13 6:44:04 AM#70
So they are letting the nostalgia of EQ convince them that to get that old feeling back, EQN must follow the same game design.  In reality, the opposite is true... in order to experience the same feeling that EQ gave them, EQN will have to be something completely new that they've never experienced before.  Taking the old EQ design and dropping it into a game with a better engine/graphics/world won't give them what they are looking for.

BOOM! There it is! Many people just don't know the psychology behind why they want the things that they want. They truly want is novelty but ask for the opposite! They point to EQ as the thing that gave them that sense of novelty and say "Give me more of that!" sorry but it doesn't work that way. How many times have we played a new mmo and said to ourselves "oh this crap again..."?

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2094

10/26/13 7:56:01 AM#71

I think people are looking at this too broadly. Yes we want something very different. But at the same time we want some of the concepts that made EQ better than what we have now. We want an open world where we aren't crammed into little 6 man boxes constantly. We want a game that actually has some challenge to it. We want a game that allows character growth through more than just items at max level. We want a world where our actions can have some sort of consequences.

I don't think people want a carbon copy of EQ updated to the present. We've already been told what EQ Next is going to be from the grand scheme of things and it is something completely new which is exciting. How they choose to flesh out that grand scheme is going to make or break the game. Do they dumb everything down and cut out any sense of competition like new games or do they go more old school with.

  rutaq

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/06
Posts: 416

10/26/13 8:23:36 AM#72

I don't care if EQN is some holy rebirth of EQ, I just wanted a game that has the design elements that I enjoyed in previous MMOs :

 

  • Grouping is a core element of the game, solo play may exist but grouping is the norm.
  • Slow character development, where it take more than a month to hit the "end". 
  • Less tiering of gear,  let us find good gear a low level that we can use effectively for most of your character leveling life.  Getting gear that you casually toss away in a couple days isn't very satisfying.
  • Combat that isn't over in 4 seconds.   Open world monsters that are a challenge and require other players helps to defeat.
  • Death penalties that hurt, maybe  xp loss, item loss, corpse run, whatever.   Something where dying means more than a 30 second respawn.  
  • Danger in the world,  patrolling monsters that can overwhelm you, wide level ranges of monsters in a zone to keep your toes and watching your surroundings... Something where you have to be engaged and pay attention instead of 3 button spamming your way to 50th level through countless under powered monsters while watching TV.

 

EQ nostalgia could be clouding my view, but what about my Meridan 59 nostalgia, my UO nostalgia, my AC nostalgia, my DAOC nostalgia, my Shadowbane nostalgia, my EQ2 nostalgia.

 

What I want isn't tied to just EQ, the game elements are found across multiple games spread out over 8-10 years so it would be a bit short sighted to write it off as delusional nostalgia.

 

 

 

  Mardukk

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/05/11
Posts: 1396

10/26/13 8:32:21 AM#73
No one knows enough about the details of EQN to be truly upset and have an informed opinion about the game.  Although I can see how some people are very upset about the type of graphics being used.  If you can get over the graphics I think there are good chances that this game will satisfy many vets.  As long as EQN is free of linear quest hubs and open world danger (be it PvP or PvE) and difficulty are there, I think most EQ vets would be happy.
  Azoth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/08/04
Posts: 512

10/26/13 8:38:40 AM#74
Originally posted by rutaq

I don't care if EQN is some holy rebirth of EQ, I just wanted a game that has the design elements that I enjoyed in previous MMOs :

 

  • Grouping is a core element of the game, solo play may exist but grouping is the norm.
  • Slow character development, where it take more than a month to hit the "end". 
  • Less tiering of gear,  let us find good gear a low level that we can use effectively for most of your character leveling life.  Getting gear that you casually toss away in a couple days isn't very satisfying.
  • Combat that isn't over in 4 seconds.   Open world monsters that are a challenge and require other players helps to defeat.
  • Death penalties that hurt, maybe  xp loss, item loss, corpse run, whatever.   Something where dying means more than a 30 second respawn.  
  • Danger in the world,  patrolling monsters that can overwhelm you, wide level ranges of monsters in a zone to keep your toes and watching your surroundings... Something where you have to be engaged and pay attention instead of 3 button spamming your way to 50th level through countless under powered monsters while watching TV.

 

EQ nostalgia could be clouding my view, but what about my Meridan 59 nostalgia, my UO nostalgia, my AC nostalgia, my DAOC nostalgia, my Shadowbane nostalgia, my EQ2 nostalgia.

 

What I want isn't tied to just EQ, the game elements are found across multiple games spread out over 8-10 years so it would be a bit short sighted to write it off as delusional nostalgia.

 

 

 

Agree, that's exactly how I feel. I loved all those games, minus eq2 that I never played after beta.

We are looking for core mechanics that made us love those worlds.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

10/26/13 8:40:29 AM#75
Originally posted by Mardukk
No one knows enough about the details of EQN to be truly upset and have an informed opinion about the game.  Although I can see how some people are very upset about the type of graphics being used.

agree

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3204

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

10/26/13 12:09:15 PM#76


Originally posted by Mardukk
No one knows enough about the details of EQN to be truly upset and have an informed opinion about the game.  Although I can see how some people are very upset about the type of graphics being used.  If you can get over the graphics I think there are good chances that this game will satisfy many vets.  As long as EQN is free of linear quest hubs and open world danger (be it PvP or PvE) and difficulty are there, I think most EQ vets would be happy.

How long do you guess before Norrath is one continent full of holes, just because millions of players can create them almost anywhere? Can you picture players just aiming attacks at random places on the ground and letting go? I sure can.

That is enough for me to make a judgement call on my own personal interest.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Aelious

Elite Member

Joined: 9/27/11
Posts: 2437

World > Quest Progression

10/26/13 4:25:19 PM#77
The world that is procedurally generated has a "heal" timer where it goes back to its original state. Five minutes was the time given back at SoELive. There will be places that destruction and healing does not apply to like entities added by developers after the "seed" generated th world as well as land plots (though it's not confirmed we'll be able to build underground for that reason).

They also mentioned that the destruction shown by the Warrior was exaggerated or the highest possible which could just mean a matter of time. The video was shown so we could see how the voxel system worked.

This does beg the question how we'll be able find opened areas and explore without having the world close on us.
  Enrif

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/06/13
Posts: 145

10/26/13 4:56:35 PM#78

It was said they have a tagging system. like

[x] Destroyable by big NPCs

[x]Destroyable during Rally Call

[o]Destroyable by normal NPC

[o]Destroyable by players

Healing timer=SetValue(0=never healing)

 

so they could decide that a castle wall is only destroyable by an big iron golem but nothing else. and it wont repair.

Or they could decide that a field of grassland is destroyble by everyone with a healtimer of 15 minutes.

 

They clearly said they can decide what and how much is destructable. So no Worriers about Cities made of Holes. Or the Whole Continent looking like the back of the moon

  Xthos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2649

10/26/13 5:04:19 PM#79

I personally was hoping for a EQ/UO modern mix, with improvements.  I personally liked the trinity, so we will see how they do with their system.  I also could do with 8 skills, but I would of liked 8 skills not tied to a weapon personally.

 

I was a little shocked, if I am being honest, when I saw the presentation, especially when they leaked the beta signup the day before and said to help test their hardcore sandbox heh...

 

I do worry that they will make this so super casual that it will just not personally be worth playing.

 

I will wait and see, I liked UO, it didn't have real classes/trinity (even though you could kind of do it, with group roles).  So I am trying to be open minded and wait....Just the modern mmo track record, and a big mmo, usually means you shoot for as casual as you can make something, so that you do not exclude anyone, if they have 10 minutes to play or not.

 

Wrong or not, if I don't have to put time/work into something, or feel like combat is truly dangerous, it will not hold my attention.

  Binny45

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/26/04
Posts: 461

10/26/13 5:12:32 PM#80

I don't want EQ1 back.  I had a lot of fun with that game, met AMAZING people and will never recapture that feeling.   What I would love to see however was the attention to detail on things like:

1) Adventurous dungeons - I don't mean a single path that takes you on rails.  I'm talking a big huge space that requires a thinking group of five or six people to get through and accomplish something

2) Epic Quests - When I got my singing short sword after 9 months of working on it, the sense of satisfaction was beyond belief.  I've NEVER had that same feeling in any MMO since.

3) Lore - EQ has by far the best lore of any MMO.  The stories are unreal!  And I loved how the devs incorporated that into the game with special events and expansions.

4) GM Events - To date I've not seen a game that could match EQ for GM events.  The GM's in EQ did some great work there.

5) Sense of Adventure in the open world - When playing EQ, there was always something new to see.  Zones I'd never explored.  Starting cities to get to know.  

6) Socialization - EQ required people to be at least modestly behaved.  Your reputation was your bond.  If you screwed over other players, it didn't matter how "1337" you were, you were social pariah and no one had anything to do with you.  This kept people in check.

7) Crafting - In EQ there was always a chance of failure.  Yeah it sucked, but it made a success worth all the more.

8) Character Details and Factions - I LOVED how things like choice of religion or race had an outcome on NPC interaction.  I also loved how you could change this, regardless of race and/or religion.  It sometimes took an amazing amount of hard work, but it was possible. (Had a dark elf able to walk the halls of Felwithe )

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