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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » PS4 will breathe new life into the MMORPG genre, gonna be fun times!

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106 posts found
  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

10/22/13 5:10:02 PM#81

Yeah, that is what the genre needs. More casual MMOs which can be played with a gamepad and minimal communication because most console gamers dont use a keyboard...

In other words. Action based with minimal social interaction and fast to cap because most console gamers dont spend more than a month or two on any game.

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1466

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

10/22/13 5:10:21 PM#82
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.

 

Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.

There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.


 

Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.

Its all good.

Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.

Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.

Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.

That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.

How about developer's code the game to allow both consoles and PC's to use all types of devices and let player's choose the one that they prefer.

I made a double sided USB cable and I plugged my Console into my PC... or did I plug my PC into my Console? Anyway I can now play Console games on my PC! and play PC games on my Console!

FRIGGING AWESOME!

  monochrome19

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 325

10/22/13 5:12:36 PM#83

The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.

Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.

People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.

 

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/22/13 5:13:37 PM#84
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.

 

Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it.

There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.


 

Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe.

Its all good.

Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.

Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.

Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.

That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.

How about developer's code the game to allow both consoles and PC's to use all types of devices and let player's choose the one that they prefer.

Because that just does NOT work. Balance wise.

Take two people, ask them to dig a hole, one having a rake, the other a shovel.

Same thing with controller vs mouse. Mouse will always be superior in a 3D game. And console gamers just don't use mice in their vast majority. Result? A poorly balanced MMORPG, with part of the population asking to nerf all those playing with a mouse.

Better solution: separate the servers. Consoles and PCs. Most problems avoided, and everyone is happy.

My computer is better than yours.

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1466

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

10/22/13 5:15:08 PM#85
Originally posted by monochrome19

The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.

Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.

People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.

 

excuse my ignorance

 

What's a clicker? To me its the remote control for the tv.

I made a double sided USB cable and I plugged my Console into my PC... or did I plug my PC into my Console? Anyway I can now play Console games on my PC! and play PC games on my Console!

FRIGGING AWESOME!

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/22/13 5:18:34 PM#86
Originally posted by monochrome19

The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.

Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.

People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.

I can do a rocket jump (targeting the floor) and then while flying target an opponent in a totally opposite direction above me instantly, without any delay, using a mouse. You just can't do that with a controller, you have delay.

Mouse reaction are just instant for a skilled user. Controllers can't be, by their very nature. They are designed for different gameplay. In any 3D game, a mouse is just vastly superior. Like a shovel is better to dig a hole than a rake.

My computer is better than yours.

  aRtFuLThinG

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1024

10/22/13 5:20:40 PM#87

I think the bigger question is not whether console is better or PC is better for mmo.

 

The bigger question is that isn't console already on it's way out? Does it still have a reason to exist?

 

With the advent of more powerful PDA phones and tablets that can do everything and even better graphics, and Android boxes that can easily be built with Android OS, why would still be worth the money for the console developer to still be making console?

 

Use other prebuilt OS and just make games and build boxes saves heaps more money.

 

I don't see proprietary OS consoles like PS4 or Xbox One lasting much longer... casual consoles like Wii? maybe, but even that can later on be replaced by easily doable Android boxes.

  laserit

Elite Member

Joined: 3/24/10
Posts: 1466

Confusius say: Man who go to bed with itchy bum wake up with stinky finger

10/22/13 5:31:35 PM#88
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by monochrome19

The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.

Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.

People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.

I can do a rocket jump (targeting the floor) and then while flying target an opponent in a totally opposite direction above me instantly, without any delay, using a mouse. You just can't do that with a controller, you have delay.

Mouse reaction are just instant for a skilled user. Controllers can't be, by their very nature. They are designed for different gameplay. In any 3D game, a mouse is just vastly superior. Like a shovel is better to dig a hole than a rake.

I think you will find that young people today are much more skilled with gamepads, mice and keyboards then you and I ever have been. Mine were pretty much born with them.

 

I find it astonishing how skilled my kids are with controller's, and they have had there own gaming PC's since they were 10 and 11 respectively. 

 

I myself hate controllers, because quite frankly I suck with them.

I made a double sided USB cable and I plugged my Console into my PC... or did I plug my PC into my Console? Anyway I can now play Console games on my PC! and play PC games on my Console!

FRIGGING AWESOME!

  User Deleted
10/22/13 5:33:27 PM#89

 


Originally posted by Neo_Viper

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by Neo_Viper Yeah, that's a 2D game... my bad, I should have said that instead of just "platform" games.   Come to me with your controller in any 3D game, and enjoy the spanking. And I won't brag about it, because the fight will be unfair from the start on. Quake, Doom, PS2, WoW, GW2, Unreal, Wolfenstein, etc... name the game, and mouse+keyboard is better than controller. Even in the recent FFXIV, and people are already complaining about it. There's nothing wrong with that, you don't use a rake to dig a hole either when a shovel is a better tool.
  Yeah keep backpedaling til all you list are fps and tab target games hehe. Its all good.
Who is backpedaling? Your tried to outsmart me with a specific example, and I actually said you were right... for that specific example, which is not a 3D game.

 

Give me a single 3D game where a controller would be better than a mouse to instantly turn to whatever direction you want, and we will talk again. Until then... well... think twice.

Even in GW2, a game which relies on very little different hotkeys during combat, and which could be played with a controller, a mouse is still vastly superior. It will be the same for EQN. Why? Because different tools are made for different jobs. And trying to mix them can only result in dumbing down the game to cater to the less efficient tool.

That's why I say: MMORPGs for consoles? Yep, why not. But put the controller users on specific servers, and the PC mouse+keyboard ones on other servers. They are not alike, they are not compatible, and the one will drag the others down.



So yeah lets ignore, 2D games, and 2.5D for that matter. Sidescrollers, platformers, fighting games, 3rd person hack n slash, bemani style, racing sims and sports games.

Then lets focus on games that were specifically developed for a mouse and keyboard.

 

Yeah your case is rock solid, bro.

You want to say FPS, RTS, traditional pc mmos, yeah you will get no argument here. But this whole all encompassing bs? [mod edit]

 

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

10/22/13 5:39:13 PM#90
Originally posted by laserit
Originally posted by monochrome19

The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.

Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. At the end of the day it comes down to skill and preference.

People said all clickers are bad. I know plenty of clickers that faceroll in PvP and PvE.

 

excuse my ignorance

 

What's a clicker? To me its the remote control for the tv.

A clicker is someone who generally uses the mouse to select their abilities rather than using the hotbar/keyboard shortcuts.

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  User Deleted
10/22/13 5:50:28 PM#91
Originally posted by Foomerang

At the very least, console devs may bring some much needed professionalism to the genre. MMO devs are masters of bullshit, blowing a budget, and missing deadlines.

 

This is right. Inferior equipment yet superior quality. Thanks to the structure Sony and Microsoft had put in place. I am afraid though that time is about to end with next gen. F2p games will be ome more mainstream and quality will go out the door on consoles as well. The culture will change to be like the pc culture. The pc culture expects f2p and doesn't care if the game is done or not.
  User Deleted
10/22/13 5:53:47 PM#92


Originally posted by Rockniss

Originally posted by Foomerang

At the very least, console devs may bring some much needed professionalism to the genre. MMO devs are masters of bullshit, blowing a budget, and missing deadlines.



 

This is right. Inferior equipment yet superior quality. Thanks to the structure Sony and Microsoft had put in place. I am afraid though that time is about to end with next gen. F2p games will be ome more mainstream and quality will go out the door on consoles as well. The culture will change to be like the pc culture. The pc culture expects f2p and doesn't care if the game is done or not.


Well I hope that doesn't happen. But if it does, at least we still have Nintendo haha

  Hatefull

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/04
Posts: 752

Your tears make my gun work better.

10/22/13 6:02:56 PM#93


Originally posted by Deivos

Originally posted by Hatefull You hate repeating yourself? Well don't then, I am not sure why you keep posting since you can't seem to make a point. I get the it is hearsay to YOU, I understand that, no need to explain it, what I am describing is something that happened to me directly, I am relating it you and I pointed out the fact that it was my experience to illuminate the fact that it is not just something I heard. So you can babble on about lord knows what you are trying to say, but it is irrelevant to me. I do not wish to share a server with console gamer's, because IN MY EXPERIENCE (see what I did there?) they are sub par in an MMO environment. Good bye.
If you don't get what my point is when I say 'That experience is no different from that which you witness on PC.' then I think that rather amounts to a comprehension failure.

 

You can claim your experience, and I can note that there is plenty of 'experience' putting your example on nowhere but par for the course with online play in general, not console versus PC play.

 

What you experienced as an individual, remains your experience. If that was bad for you, then so be it.

It does not exclude those very same events from being inverted or a wash for others.

 

I can cite examples from many PC MMOs where I have witnessed poor communication, interaction and player skill.



Ok...and? again, what is your bloody point? do you even know what we are discussing in this thread?

If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  NightBandit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 768

Make friends not money, then wealth will follow.

10/22/13 6:09:33 PM#94
Originally posted by khameleon

As many can see by posts in every MMORPG forum whether current or future, PC gamers are all complaining and bored and have little hope for any MMORPG games. Why? They are burned out, they have been playing these games for 10-15+ years, many people put in 10+ hours a day every day for all that time too(as sick as that may seem, its common for an MMORPG gamer).  So, its not the games that are bad, its the gamers that are just burned out.

Now comes along the PS4 and comes with it millions and millions of gamers that never have touched an MMORPG before as they play on consoles only many of them. The ones that have played MMORPGs probably have not been too "hardcore" into them because they play a lot on their PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. all those years.

DC Online, EQ Next, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online and many more will all be on the PS4. These games wil be something new, exciting and refreshing to the PS4 console crowd. 

These games will be played on Big screen TVs and look awesome and play awesome as the PS4 while not as strong as a top gaming rig, will still play any current game at top settings and everyone will have the same hardware, nobody will be suffering from lag or crap settings while the guy next to him in game is on a better machine. 

I really see the MMORPG genre growing and having a lot of excitement coming soon due to the infusion of console gamers and  the games being played on the huge screens by a new group of players that are not going to be bored right away or come in burned out like most PC gamers are that join these games nowadays and complain from day 1.

I myself am a PC gamer for the most part over the past 5+ years, but I grew up on consoles and look forward to seeing the consoles join the MMO world and breathe life into a genre that PC gamers have pretty much given up on and taken for granted the last few years because of burn out. 

 

 

 

Yeah whatever, oh Star Citizen on a console, I doubt it unless you come up with $25 mill from your spotty teenagers...Next they will be calling it PCSn5 Muhahahaha!!!!

The Bandit

  Deivos

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/04
Posts: 1703

Iarð skal rifna, ok upphiminn.

10/22/13 6:10:24 PM#95
Originally posted by Hatefull

 

Originally posted by Deivos
If you don't get what my point is when I say 'That experience is no different from that which you witness on PC.' then I think that rather amounts to a comprehension failure.

 

You can claim your experience, and I can note that there is plenty of 'experience' putting your example on nowhere but par for the course with online play in general, not console versus PC play.

 

What you experienced as an individual, remains your experience. If that was bad for you, then so be it.

It does not exclude those very same events from being inverted or a wash for others.

 

I can cite examples from many PC MMOs where I have witnessed poor communication, interaction and player skill.

Ok...and? again, what is your bloody point? do you even know what we are discussing in this thread?

I refer to my first sentence.

 

And the thread is commenting on the PS4 as a MMO platform, the OP's commentary being a confusing mash about how upcoming titles have another chance at reigning in a broader crowd into the MMO genre via consoles.

Others commented on keeping console play separate due to personal or performance differences.

 

You made a claim about console play based on a single frame of reference, I gave counterpoint.

 

It's not rocket science. What part of my commentary has you confused?

As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero. - Vaarsuvius

  iridescence

Elite Member

Joined: 6/12/12
Posts: 1248

10/22/13 11:35:43 PM#96
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
 

It's a problem of taking the game for what it is, a MMO, but also a RPG. The concept console gamers have of RPGs are very different from what a pen and paper and PC MMORPG veteran have.

Some people here seem to think the MMORPG genre has been dumbed down by games like WoW, mostly the RPG part. Well, they have seen nothing. If the console crowd ever takes over the genre, you will know what dumbing down really means. No more roleplaying, no communication either, dungeons run 100% like single player mario bross levels, no player interaction other than bashing mobs to earn phat loot.

That's why I do not want to play my MMORPGs with console gamers. Would you talk about 3rd person shooters, or other arcade games, I wouldn't mind. But a MMORPG on a console is just a MMO, and no longer a RPG.

Pfft...I don't see how it could get much worse. Do you really think there's any relationship between the current version of  WoW or something like Neverwinter and actual pen and paper RPGs? They are becoming more and more "console action arcade games" all the time.  I could see something like Guild Wars 2 possibly working on a console with a little tweaking (and I don't even consider that a bad MMO) and as far as console kiddies being ruder or more annoying than the current "PC kiddies" that infest MMOs, I don't see that either.

 

But, if it is as bad as you say maybe this will finally force some new MMOs to go back to their RPG roots to capitalize on alienated players.

   

  Edli

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/03/10
Posts: 887

10/23/13 1:49:26 AM#97
Originally posted by monochrome19

The mouse+keyboard is in no way superior to a game controller.

Anyone who thinks so is a smuck and delusional. 

 

Are you serious? It depends on the game. A controller is superior to kb/m in racing, fighting, platformers. Kb/m is superior when it comes to strategy, FPS, MMOs with a lot of skills in the hotbar. I can't just go and tank or heal on an endgame dungeon with a controller on a lot of MMOs. 

They are very different input methods, of course they will give different experiences depending on the game. I use both controller and kb/m on my PC and switch between them depending on the game. One is not inherently inferior to the other in every case. It all depends on the type of game.

  cyrician

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/14/10
Posts: 159

10/23/13 4:15:51 AM#98

Consoles are now where P.Cs were 5 years ago.

 

Consoles make my eyes bleed...........

 

EWwwwww low resolution playing....

cyrician Xfire Miniprofile
  stevebombsquad

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/20/13
Posts: 609

10/23/13 4:33:21 AM#99
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
*snip

You possibly have been lucky with your guild there, but my experience with those games was pretty horrible - it made WoW's barren chat sound like a highly intellectual discussion between two scientists.

Hardware does correlate with personality, and I'm definitely not your "mate". Consoles = easily accessible, plug in and play. PC = harder to configure and to maintain properly (even if that has become easier past 2005). People with not a clue about how a computer works and who have a low education level play console games. Not saying that about people posting here, but in general.

Sorry, I don't enjoy the company of the "LOL WTF ROFLCOPTER" crowd, and console gamers would only make that even worse than it is today. I hope developers will keep servers separated, and I will petition for that on the forums of future games I'm interested in.

To make it clear, I don't talk about discrimination here. I have no problem with console gamers having access to MMORPGs too, as long as it doesn't mean the PC version being dumbed down to adapt to consoles. I just don't want those people in my community (=server), just as I don't want the nightclub crowd and its loud music to invade my favorite pub and it's celtic, jazz and rock music. Different people, different tastes, different places. I don't force people to come to my pub, and I won't accept people trying to force me to go to their nightclub. If a game tries that, I will just not give it any of my money.

Really? Saying console players are people with a low education........My son started playing on a PC when he was 5. That is some barrier you have. I also have plenty of developer / IT friends and old college buddies that would like to have a word with you as they prefer gaming on a console. 

James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2528

10/23/13 4:40:28 AM#100


Originally posted by khameleon
As many can see by posts in every MMORPG forum whether current or future, PC gamers are all complaining and bored and have little hope for any MMORPG games. Why? They are burned out, they have been playing these games for 10-15+ years, many people put in 10+ hours a day every day for all that time too(as sick as that may seem, its common for an MMORPG gamer).  So, its not the games that are bad, its the gamers that are just burned out.

Now comes along the PS4 and comes with it millions and millions of gamers that never have touched an MMORPG before as they play on consoles only many of them. The ones that have played MMORPGs probably have not been too "hardcore" into them because they play a lot on their PS1, PS2, PS3, etc. all those years.

DC Online, EQ Next, FFXIV, Elder Scrolls Online and many more will all be on the PS4. These games wil be something new, exciting and refreshing to the PS4 console crowd. 

These games will be played on Big screen TVs and look awesome and play awesome as the PS4 while not as strong as a top gaming rig, will still play any current game at top settings and everyone will have the same hardware, nobody will be suffering from lag or crap settings while the guy next to him in game is on a better machine. 

I really see the MMORPG genre growing and having a lot of excitement coming soon due to the infusion of console gamers and  the games being played on the huge screens by a new group of players that are not going to be bored right away or come in burned out like most PC gamers are that join these games nowadays and complain from day 1.

I myself am a PC gamer for the most part over the past 5+ years, but I grew up on consoles and look forward to seeing the consoles join the MMO world and breathe life into a genre that PC gamers have pretty much given up on and taken for granted the last few years because of burn out. 

 

 

 


Did you notice yourself saying PS1-2-3-4? So PS players are still fresh we PC gamers are burned out?

MMO's are not only games you can play on PC and not to mention MODS and so much more you can do with PC then LIMITED console.

No my friend becouse we complain about one genre MMO'S dont mean where burned out.

If genre produced CRAP dont mean gamers are burned out and it now just expand this CRAP to consoles HAVE FUN playing CRAP::P

Ill see you back in few months eat those words MARK MY WORDS:)

What im most affraid of is that mmo's will be DUMBED DOWN for the limited consoles and there awefull controlls(skyrim was made with console in mind but luckly we have mods to fix that in mmo's we dont have that luxery). I hope the stay seperate and developers still make MMO'S with mouse/keyboard and UI in mind.

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