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General Discussion  » 10 million Skyrim fans

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104 posts found
  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5566

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

10/22/13 8:49:13 AM#21
Originally posted by Scalpless

Quest quality wise, the difference between the best SP RPGs like The Witcher 1/2, Deus Ex or New Vegas and the best MMOs is enormous. Of course, Skyrim's fans may be a bit more tolerant of bad quests, because Skyrim's quests are mostly a bit dull and linear, too.

i agree. But what makes the questing in Skyrim actually fun and interesting is the world itself. Usually when you are walking towards your questing area / objective you come across other stuffs that derail you from your goal in a much better way (dragon, exploration, some guys trying to ambush you, a lot of unexpected stuff) so yoy dont feel like its an annoyance. That doesnt happen in mmorpgs. In an mmorpg you are walking towards your linear and dull objective and the only thing that crosses your way is other annoying mobs that aggro you and you just curse at the waste of time.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Fusion

Old School

Joined: 5/21/03
Posts: 1364

10/22/13 8:50:16 AM#22
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Scalpless
I'd wager this being an MMO is the bigger issue for those fans. Most of the people I know are very negative towards MMOs, because they're grindy and have dull quests.

Actually the game will feel and play like Skyrim 2.....  its first elder scroll and seccondly MMO, my biggest worries are the game not being MMO enough to sattisfy most players in the long term..

MMO's haven't been "long term" for almost a decade now, but only for a tiny fraction of MMO gamers. Funny how some folks still think MMO's will last for years (singleplayer games rarely last even a month) with similar budgets to that of singleplayer games, sometimes bit higher, but the workload is 10x more and MMO's usually last atleast a month or two. So i think the "longevity" of MMO's as current is spot on for the money, anyone thinking they SHOULD last 6 months and more are just delusional.

 

Currently playing: -

Waiting for: Class4.

Dead and Buried: ESO, NWO, GW2, SWTOR, Darkfall, AO, AC2, Vanguard, CoH/V, EnB, EVE, Neocron, FE, EQ, EQ2, DAoC, FFXI, FFXIV, SWG, WoW, and billions of eastern junks!

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5566

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

10/22/13 8:55:17 AM#23
Originally posted by Fusion
 

MMO's haven't been "long term" for almost a decade now, but only for a tiny fraction of MMO gamers.

 

this is enough reason why they shouldnt have subscriptions. Just sell the box and expand the game with priced content expansions. If they want to appeal to the masses only for a short time then they will fail hard and its a sign for the majority to wait for a f2p change. Otherwise they would make the game non solo friendly and focus on long term quality content to actually justify the constant subscription.

My endgame begins with character creation and ends with a new mmorpg

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19089

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/22/13 8:55:18 AM#24
Originally posted by Fusion
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Scalpless
I'd wager this being an MMO is the bigger issue for those fans. Most of the people I know are very negative towards MMOs, because they're grindy and have dull quests.

Actually the game will feel and play like Skyrim 2.....  its first elder scroll and seccondly MMO, my biggest worries are the game not being MMO enough to sattisfy most players in the long term..

MMO's haven't been "long term" for almost a decade now, but only for a tiny fraction of MMO gamers. Funny how some folks still think MMO's will last for years (singleplayer games rarely last even a month) with similar budgets to that of singleplayer games, sometimes bit higher, but the workload is 10x more and MMO's usually last atleast a month or two. So i think the "longevity" of MMO's as current is spot on for the money, anyone thinking they SHOULD last 6 months and more are just delusional.

 

Anyone creating MMORPG's and not trying to retain customers over the long term are just doing something wrong.

It is possible to keep a title interesting enough to keep people playing for years, just isn't how current MMO's are designed.

Heck, many fans of Skyrim played it for very long periods of time, for multiple reasons including modding, and MMORPG's can accomplish the same.

Can they retain everyone? No, for course not, some players just aren't wired that way (see Narius) but there is a substantial player base than can become loyal followers of a title if it provides them a solid entertainment value.

 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Oph8

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/03
Posts: 176

10/22/13 8:58:24 AM#25
Originally posted by Classicstar

 


Originally posted by Volgore
I'm a huge Skyrim and Oblivion fan and hence WILL NOT buy teso.

 

My prediction is a huge discount 3-4 month after release what makes them scratch the 2mio sales mark, huge loss of players within 6 month, game dead within 1.5years, f2p when it doesnt even matter anymore.

Zenimax just cannot properly pull something as big as this off and do the IP justice, just like Turbine was never able to carry an IP as big as Lotro or Mythic with WAR.

Seen it way too often to still fall for it...it's always the wrong studio that somehow manages to get the license of a great IP and then delivers a bad game which goes down the drain fast.


 

Zenimax is almost bethesda its already for a very longtime mother company and betehsda its independed when it comes to making the elderscroll mmo game.

I very doub that zenimax dont use and listend to bethesda if its about TESO.

Its only that bethesda and zenimax want a money grab cash in on succes of skyrim and that blind them from follow formula solo games so it will fail as mmo but not becouse of zenimax just becouse they make same mistake as all before try beat WoW and use this as a cashcow.

They will never reach the succes of Skyrim that game is a league on its own it will never be passed by this TESO abomination.

You can't btw not predict on BETA sign ups there freeloaders when the beta is over they go to next beta most dont even test they just wanne free ride.

 

 

I'm sorry but your completely wrong. Bethesda and Zenimax are working together on ESO. Beth has the final say so on a lot of the content and marketing. Zenimax may be working on 90% of the game whereas Bethesda is overseeing the project. Lore, content, combat gets the checkmark from Bethesda before it gets pushed into the final product.

"Everything is mine and your woman too"

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

10/22/13 8:58:52 AM#26
Originally posted by Classicstar

 


Originally posted by Volgore
I'm a huge Skyrim and Oblivion fan and hence WILL NOT buy teso.

 

My prediction is a huge discount 3-4 month after release what makes them scratch the 2mio sales mark, huge loss of players within 6 month, game dead within 1.5years, f2p when it doesnt even matter anymore.

Zenimax just cannot properly pull something as big as this off and do the IP justice, just like Turbine was never able to carry an IP as big as Lotro or Mythic with WAR.

Seen it way too often to still fall for it...it's always the wrong studio that somehow manages to get the license of a great IP and then delivers a bad game which goes down the drain fast.


 

Zenimax is almost bethesda its already for a very longtime mother company and betehsda its independed when it comes to making the elderscroll mmo game.

I very doub that zenimax dont use and listend to bethesda if its about TESO.

Its only that bethesda and zenimax want a money grab cash in on succes of skyrim and that blind them from follow formula solo games so it will fail as mmo but not becouse of zenimax just becouse they make same mistake as all before try beat WoW and use this as a cashcow.

They will never reach the succes of Skyrim that game is a league on its own it will never be passed by this TESO abomination.

You can't btw not predict on BETA sign ups there freeloaders when the beta is over they go to next beta most dont even test they just wanne free ride.

 

Beta sign ups are the best indicator of interest in a game pre launch tho and as the beta is only available to pc players and not where the vast majority of tes players play (consoles), 3m sign ups shows that there is a hell of a lot of interest in the game. I cant think of any other pre-release mmo that has had that many beta sign ups, even swtor only had 2 million, and that went onto sell 2 million in 1month without the aid of cross platform and with the disadvantage of having pretty stale and typical mmo gameplay
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17213

10/22/13 9:03:30 AM#27
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

But for how many is the subscription a reason not to buy the game?

 

I dont see them selling 10 million copies anytime soon... even tough next to the 10 million officially sold copies there are more then the double of that illegal copies roaming the world...

 

The majority of casual gamers still has a problem paying a monthly subscription for online gaming...

 

How many copies do they plan to sell in the first year after release?

I actually would agree.

I know several people who liked skyrim but have no interest in mmo's.

However, I think they are going to sell a LOT of copies just based on the lines that I've seen at the PAX events. I mean, they have full huge lines stretching around several corners for all the days.

 

  Oph8

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/03
Posts: 176

10/22/13 9:04:12 AM#28
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Classicstar

 


Originally posted by Volgore
I'm a huge Skyrim and Oblivion fan and hence WILL NOT buy teso.

 

My prediction is a huge discount 3-4 month after release what makes them scratch the 2mio sales mark, huge loss of players within 6 month, game dead within 1.5years, f2p when it doesnt even matter anymore.

Zenimax just cannot properly pull something as big as this off and do the IP justice, just like Turbine was never able to carry an IP as big as Lotro or Mythic with WAR.

Seen it way too often to still fall for it...it's always the wrong studio that somehow manages to get the license of a great IP and then delivers a bad game which goes down the drain fast.


 

Zenimax is almost bethesda its already for a very longtime mother company and betehsda its independed when it comes to making the elderscroll mmo game.

I very doub that zenimax dont use and listend to bethesda if its about TESO.

Its only that bethesda and zenimax want a money grab cash in on succes of skyrim and that blind them from follow formula solo games so it will fail as mmo but not becouse of zenimax just becouse they make same mistake as all before try beat WoW and use this as a cashcow.

They will never reach the succes of Skyrim that game is a league on its own it will never be passed by this TESO abomination.

You can't btw not predict on BETA sign ups there freeloaders when the beta is over they go to next beta most dont even test they just wanne free ride.

 

Beta sign ups are the best indicator interest in a game pre launch tho and as the beta is only availible to pc players and not where the vast majority of tes players play (consoles), 3m sign ups shows that there is a hell of a lot of interest in the game. I cant think of any other pre-release mmo that has had that many beta sign ups, even swtor only had 2 million, and that went onto sell 2 million in 1month without the aid of cross platform and with the disadvantage of having pretty stale and typical mmo gameplay

 

Anything is possible right now. 3 Million beta sign ups is pretty good in my book and that was just PC alone. I'm wondering what the numbers are going to look like for consoles. It could very well push the number above 3 million into 4 million. There is so much competetion out there Zeni/Beth will have to nail ESO in order to sustain high sub numbers.

"Everything is mine and your woman too"

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2094

10/22/13 9:08:03 AM#29


The last time we saw something like this was with WOW and battle.net fans never having played a MMO before but ended up playing WOW.

I'd be surprised if there are a ton of skyrim fans that have never played an MMO before. This is extremely different. This is more like SWTOR being popular because of the IP or GW2 because they had the established GW1 players.

I haven't seen much to interest me in ESO but the monthly fee is certainly going to get in the way of me trying it out.

As for Beta signups, 3M is a pretty normal number. Rift had over 3M. AOC had over a million and that was 6 years ago.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1593

10/22/13 9:11:06 AM#30

WoW went as big as it did because of the fanbase of the IP. Blizzard is still one of the most recognizable brand names in the gaming world. They made a game that appealed to the masses and have found a ton of success.

Bioware had an opportunity to recreate a Blizzard style success. They are a noteworthy game house with rabid fans, along with a highly recognizable IP. Unfortunately, the game wasn't up to snuff and even though the game has it's fanbase it didn't see the success that BiowareEA was hoping for.

Now we come to Zenimax Online, which is creating a mmo for a highly recognizable IP in the ESO series. Even though ZO might not be a recognizable name in the industry having ESO attached will lend credence to Bethesda fans. What we've been shown from TESO has had many mixed responses. The character creation system looks really nice, but the visual look of some of the in game stuff we've been shown seems lacking. The combat doesn't look like your typical mmo fare, but it also hasn't exactly "wowed" a ton of people.

Beyond anything else, the largest obstacle that ZO is going to need to overcome is the highly cynical audience that mmo gamers have become. We seemingly expect everything to fail out the gate, and with good reason. How many truly great mmos have we been presented with over the past 20 or so years? UO, EQ, AC, DAoC and SWG were all great games for very different reasons, but those games were really the highlights of the pre-WoW era. Sure there was EVE, but that didn't really pick up steam for a few years after it's initial release. WoW came out and it took the world by storm. Everything after has pretty much been complete trash or a marginal success (I would say the verdict is still out for GW2, the sales from an expack would be a good indicator of the popularity of the game if we ever get one).

ZO clearly has an upward battle to win hearts and minds. The total amount of Skyrim fans probably won't matter much. What makes ESO great, can't exactly be translated into a mmo.

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3140

10/22/13 9:15:19 AM#31
I'm a TES fan.  I have bought every game.  However, I thought this was a bad idea to make it into an MMO.  I always thought it would be fun to play with friends and such, but not with the wide world.  There's going to be too many limits on what you can and can't do, which isn't TES-like.  The thing that (I think) most people love about TES is the freedom you have.  You can do just about anything you want.  My orc blacksmith in Skyrim did almost none of the quests in Skyrim.  I would go out and mine with him, go back to a forge, craft some stuff, then sell it to vendors :)  I have another Orc, but he's a beserk, he runs around killing anything that moves :)
  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17213

10/22/13 9:17:02 AM#32
Originally posted by Kyleran

 


Heck, many fans of Skyrim played it for very long periods of time, for multiple reasons including modding, and MMORPG's can accomplish the same.

 

 

I still play skyrim. I have over 900+ hours in the game.

  Dajag

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 55

10/22/13 9:24:09 AM#33

Not MMO enough - This is untrue, Not MMO-RPG enough - This might be true.

Crafting will have to be top notch. The game will need player housing. The game will need tons of Clothing / Armor options. PvP will have to be really fun.

No true MMO-RPG fan has a problem with dropping 60 cents a day to play a great game, A matter of fact a lot, like myself, prefer it, as opposed to the F2P crap that ends up nickle and diming you to death just to see all the content without interuptions.

I hate how folks compare subscription games to failure, its never the Sub cost that causes a game to fail, its the simple fact that the game has to many flaws to hold Subs.

Too Fast a leveling curve, not enough new content fast enough!  (TSW, GW2, SWtoR,and Rift all took me less then 1 month to max level)

No Crafting (meaningless crafting)

No Housing

Limited Character Customization (if any)

No Mounts

Poor PvP

Limited exploration (Theme Park - Forced to stay in the dotted lines)

Forced Template combat style (play your class this way or you suck)

Constant class revamping / Balancing!

Horrid Dungons / and or Raids (or no Dungons for small groups)

NO END GAME!

All these things and some others, are the reasons why most MMORPGs die within a year (hell, some within a month) to include the free to play ones.

  deakon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

10/22/13 9:30:20 AM#34
Originally posted by Ender4

As for Beta signups, 3M is a pretty normal number. Rift had over 3M. AOC had over a million and that was 6 years ago.

Rift did not have 3 million or even close to, they only had a million people registered on their site (which you had to be to access beta) just before launch, even gw2 and swtor didn't have 3m beta sign ups, so please if its so common surely you have a link to support your claim?

 

Edit: also you have inflated AoC's beta sign ups too, funcom announced they had 500,000 sign ups less than a month before launch

  silverreign

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 325

It is what it is

10/22/13 9:42:24 AM#35


Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by Fusion

 
MMO's haven't been "long term" for almost a decade now, but only for a tiny fraction of MMO gamers.  
this is enough reason why they shouldnt have subscriptions. Just sell the box and expand the game with priced content expansions. If they want to appeal to the masses only for a short time then they will fail hard and its a sign for the majority to wait for a f2p change. Otherwise they would make the game non solo friendly and focus on long term quality content to actually justify the constant subscription.


f2p is ruining mmo's. people bitchin and moanin about payin $15 a month for a game when its really the cost of one night at the theaters. less actually. and its for 30 days. everyone wants WoW content for free. mmo's r in this state now because of us. the cheap ass people who cry about paying for entertainment. u get what u pay for people. quit bitchin about $15 a month. it isnt shit

  Lord.Bachus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8599

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  10/22/13 10:03:45 AM#36
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Originally posted by Scalpless
I'd wager this being an MMO is the bigger issue for those fans. Most of the people I know are very negative towards MMOs, because they're grindy and have dull quests.

Actually the game will feel and play like Skyrim 2.....  its first elder scroll and seccondly MMO, my biggest worries are the game not being MMO enough to sattisfy most players in the long term..

That's what the devs keep saying, but I have little reason to trust them. The gameplay I've seen sure didn't look like Skyrim 2.

MMo games having dull quests, is something from the past on top of that, actually even WoW has some very fun questlines these days, and in games like SWTOR, LOTRO and TSW quests are equall to the best single player RPG's. I dont see how TESO would have dull quests...

They're not even close. TOR and TSW have voiced and sometimes well-written quests, but they're still completely linear. This is what a good SP RPG quest looks like:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Beyond_the_Beef

Quest quality wise, the difference between the best SP RPGs like The Witcher 1/2, Deus Ex or New Vegas and the best MMOs is enormous. Of course, Skyrim's fans may be a bit more tolerant of bad quests, because Skyrim's quests are mostly a bit dull and linear, too.

 

First its not only the developers stating the game feels and plays like Skyrim, its almost all people that have playtested it too.

Seccond, Skyrim quests are in general less impressive then TSW quests, its just a personal opinion however.  But there is absolutely no reason to think that ESO quests are lower quallity then Skyrim quests

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

10/22/13 10:13:51 AM#37
Originally posted by deakon

 even gw2 and swtor didn't have 3m beta sign ups,

GW2 had 1 million signups during a 48 hour signup period

http://www.vg247.com/2012/02/25/one-million-people-sign-up-for-guild-wars-2-beta/

ANET didnt have an extended beta signup beyond that  (unless you prepaid) so its hard to compare

 

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3802

10/22/13 10:33:17 AM#38

When I asked people here to guess a month ago, quite a large proportion thought it would sell 3+ Mil within a month:  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/397087/How-many-sales-one-month-after-release.html

 

You have to remember: shiny new consoles (PS4, XB1) with not that many "designed for __"  titles available next spring;  first MMO to release for those consoles; it's the first game represented in Sony's TV ad blitzing the airwaves as we speak... Most of us are PC gamers here so we tend to underestimate the console sales...don't.

 

Then there's also this little bit of trivia: Morrowind - released in 2002; Oblivion - released in 2006; Skyrim - released in 2010; ESO - released in 2014... just when the next ES game is more or less "due."

 

Some people may not like it: the hardcore internet critics have their issues with the game; some self-declared "huge TES fans" have their issues; but the rest of the world doesn't.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to see 3 MIl in one week and 5+ Mil in one year for this one. 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

10/22/13 10:37:34 AM#39
Originally posted by Iselin

You have to remember: shiny new consoles (PS4, XB1) with not that many "designed for __"  titles available next spring;  first MMO to release for those consoles; it's the first game represented in Sony's TV ad blitzing the airwaves as we speak...

very good point

but remains to be seen how many console players want to pay additional monthly fees

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 3802

10/22/13 10:40:57 AM#40
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Iselin

You have to remember: shiny new consoles (PS4, XB1) with not that many "designed for __"  titles available next spring;  first MMO to release for those consoles; it's the first game represented in Sony's TV ad blitzing the airwaves as we speak...

very good point

but remains to be seen how many console players want to pay additional monthly fees

Yeah. That's a key point also. Zenimax is currently busily negotiating with both Sony and MS to try to make ESO playable without their respective "plus" services.  

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