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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » new Landmark screenshots on twitter

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101 posts found
  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5444

10/19/13 1:37:01 PM#41
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by DMKano

Gameplay trumps graphics - I play minecraft and have a blast.

While not a fan of EQN graphically, if the gameplay is there it won't matter.

If WoW had clunky and unresponsive combat, and terrible gameplay it would have failed miserably.

There are a ton of crappy games out there that look almost identically to WoW - so again gameplay is a lot more important.

Yes, no game can be good without good gameplay. For indi-games I can accept it if the costs had to be cut in the graphics department, but not for a AAA-title. (And SOE is not quite an indi-developer.) Of a AAA title I demand not only fun gameplay but also a game that is visually pleasing, polished and immersive. Good gameplay is not an excuse for bad graphics in a game with a multimillion dollar budget.

AAA MMOs today are in the $60,000,000+ range, and SoE doesnt have that budget for EQN anymore, they did 4 years ago, but not now. Why you ask?

Because this its 3rd iteration, they've scrapped the 2 previous games completely and have gone way overbudget on this already, let's not even mention 4 years of wasted Dev time (and look at the Dev team at EQN, none of them are juniors - so all of them are top salaries)

Why do you think they are releasing EQL as a game (with cash shop)? Remember that initially EQL was gonna be a toolset, but now SoE is making into a full blown game - $$$ cha-ching!

To help fund EQN, and to help SoE get player made content - look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs - they are running with a barebone crew, again due to spending so much money on the 2 previous versions they scrapped.

So SoE currently doesn't have the $$ nor dev team to finish EQN, they need EQL to be successful and profitable, as otherwise EQN is in major trouble.

 

  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1051

10/19/13 2:43:57 PM#42
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by DMKano

Gameplay trumps graphics - I play minecraft and have a blast.

While not a fan of EQN graphically, if the gameplay is there it won't matter.

If WoW had clunky and unresponsive combat, and terrible gameplay it would have failed miserably.

There are a ton of crappy games out there that look almost identically to WoW - so again gameplay is a lot more important.

Yes, no game can be good without good gameplay. For indi-games I can accept it if the costs had to be cut in the graphics department, but not for a AAA-title. (And SOE is not quite an indi-developer.) Of a AAA title I demand not only fun gameplay but also a game that is visually pleasing, polished and immersive. Good gameplay is not an excuse for bad graphics in a game with a multimillion dollar budget.

AAA MMOs today are in the $60,000,000+ range, and SoE doesnt have that budget for EQN anymore, they did 4 years ago, but not now. Why you ask?

Because this its 3rd iteration, they've scrapped the 2 previous games completely and have gone way overbudget on this already, let's not even mention 4 years of wasted Dev time (and look at the Dev team at EQN, none of them are juniors - so all of them are top salaries)

Why do you think they are releasing EQL as a game (with cash shop)? Remember that initially EQL was gonna be a toolset, but now SoE is making into a full blown game - $$$ cha-ching!

To help fund EQN, and to help SoE get player made content - look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs - they are running with a barebone crew, again due to spending so much money on the 2 previous versions they scrapped.

So SoE currently doesn't have the $$ nor dev team to finish EQN, they need EQL to be successful and profitable, as otherwise EQN is in major trouble.

 

I'm sure there are people at SOE laughing their asses out loud at all the educated posts by business gurus in these fora; SOE out of money for EQN? Are you serious man? This is their flagship and you think they would be short of money? They'll keep pumping as much as it takes till launch. And yes, Sony CAN PUMP AS MUCH AS IT TAKES.

Now if it fails AFTER launch (I doubt it), that's another issue.

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

 
OP  10/19/13 2:57:54 PM#43
Originally posted by DMKano
look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs

when has any SOE mmo had 200 devs?

you claiming that SOE has never made a AAA mmo?

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5444

10/19/13 2:58:23 PM#44
Originally posted by Galadourn
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by DMKano

Gameplay trumps graphics - I play minecraft and have a blast.

While not a fan of EQN graphically, if the gameplay is there it won't matter.

If WoW had clunky and unresponsive combat, and terrible gameplay it would have failed miserably.

There are a ton of crappy games out there that look almost identically to WoW - so again gameplay is a lot more important.

Yes, no game can be good without good gameplay. For indi-games I can accept it if the costs had to be cut in the graphics department, but not for a AAA-title. (And SOE is not quite an indi-developer.) Of a AAA title I demand not only fun gameplay but also a game that is visually pleasing, polished and immersive. Good gameplay is not an excuse for bad graphics in a game with a multimillion dollar budget.

AAA MMOs today are in the $60,000,000+ range, and SoE doesnt have that budget for EQN anymore, they did 4 years ago, but not now. Why you ask?

Because this its 3rd iteration, they've scrapped the 2 previous games completely and have gone way overbudget on this already, let's not even mention 4 years of wasted Dev time (and look at the Dev team at EQN, none of them are juniors - so all of them are top salaries)

Why do you think they are releasing EQL as a game (with cash shop)? Remember that initially EQL was gonna be a toolset, but now SoE is making into a full blown game - $$$ cha-ching!

To help fund EQN, and to help SoE get player made content - look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs - they are running with a barebone crew, again due to spending so much money on the 2 previous versions they scrapped.

So SoE currently doesn't have the $$ nor dev team to finish EQN, they need EQL to be successful and profitable, as otherwise EQN is in major trouble.

 

I'm sure there are people at SOE laughing their asses out loud at all the educated posts by business gurus in these fora; SOE out of money for EQN? Are you serious man? This is their flagship and you think they would be short of money? They'll keep pumping as much as it takes till launch. And yes, Sony CAN PUMP AS MUCH AS IT TAKES.

Now if it fails AFTER launch (I doubt it), that's another issue.

Over budget and out of money are two different things. 

Sony and SoE are two separate companies for all practical purposes, what you are saying about "pump as much as it takes" is actually pretty laughable. SoE is operating under strict budget just like any division.

Why aren't they working on EQN solely if they had all this cash, why reassign most devs to EQL? if what you are saying were true, this would not be the case.

Why even have EQL? If they had all these endless funds as you say, EQN team would be 200 Dev strong right now, possibly closer to 300. They don't even have 100 folks working on EQN.

This idea that SoE is a huge mighy Dev studio with endless funds is ludicrous.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5444

10/19/13 2:59:45 PM#45
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by DMKano
look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs

when has any SOE mmo had 200 devs?

you claiming that SOE has never made a AAA mmo?

Look at the EQ2 credits - more than 200 folks

Also a AAA today and a AAA game 14 years ago are *vastly* different. 

To get a AAA MMO done today it takes a much bigger team and more devs because games have gotten a lot more complex, and the devs make a lot more today.

So don't make a mistake that a major AAA can be done with a small cheap dev team, not anymore.

 

 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

 
OP  10/19/13 3:01:03 PM#46
Originally posted by DMKano

Look at the EQ2 credits - more than 200 folks.

EQ2 had tons of voice actors but I will check it out

 

EQ2 launch credits -- most the credits are voice acting

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/everquest-ii/credits

 

i do stand corrected thats alot of staff

  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1051

10/19/13 3:07:43 PM#47

it's pretty obvious that SOE will use EQNL as a testbed for a number of  technical things (procedural generation, emergent AI and whatnot) but also as a gauge and prequel to the new gameplay experience they are trying to bring to the genre.

Think of EQNL as a marketing (but not only) trick to stir up interest. They are addressing vastly different MMO crowds here. And in order to be successful they have  to proceed in steps.

Everything about EQN points to the fact that SOE is willing to throw A LOT of money in order to become a market leader - actually not only become  market leader, but CHANGE THE MARKET in the process as well. Be it the soundtrack, the novels they are publishing and whatever else they may come up with, these guys seem determined to do it right. And for a big budget company this means keep pumping money till you get it right.

There is no intermediate success here, you either win it or you lose.

 

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2994

I actually still like MMORPGs

10/19/13 3:12:37 PM#48
Looks sooo good I really can't wait. Especially after hearing landmark will help some exploration and combat elements for non builders to enjoy.

  RebelScum99

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1127

10/19/13 3:13:33 PM#49
Memo to SOE:  If you want to keep people interested in your game, stop releasing screenshots.  
  Sengi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 341

10/19/13 3:33:25 PM#50
Originally posted by DMKano
AAA MMOs today are in the $60,000,000+ range, and SoE doesnt have that budget for EQN anymore, they did 4 years ago, but not now. Why you ask?

Because this its 3rd iteration, they've scrapped the 2 previous games completely and have gone way overbudget on this already, let's not even mention 4 years of wasted Dev time (and look at the Dev team at EQN, none of them are juniors - so all of them are top salaries)

Why do you think they are releasing EQL as a game (with cash shop)? Remember that initially EQL was gonna be a toolset, but now SoE is making into a full blown game - $$$ cha-ching!

To help fund EQN, and to help SoE get player made content - look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs - they are running with a barebone crew, again due to spending so much money on the 2 previous versions they scrapped.

So SoE currently doesn't have the $$ nor dev team to finish EQN, they need EQL to be successful and profitable, as otherwise EQN is in major trouble.

 

I actually don't know much about EQNs budget and the size of the dev-team and I couldn't find much about it online. How big is the dev team? Where is your information from??

I always assumed that SOE had written of the losses form the earlier attempts and gave  EQN a whole new big budget in 2012. Otherwise it would be an almost impossible task to produce a prestigious new game that set off to redefine the whole genre on the left over money from a previous failed project.

There where some rumours about EQN being in trouble in 2011, but that was before the reboot of the project, and it is hard so tell how valid they are.

  georgatos7

Novice Member

Joined: 11/15/12
Posts: 54

10/19/13 3:44:27 PM#51
Originally posted by Galadourn

I cannot take seriously someone who sports Olympiacos' player name as a user name, sorry.

 

Too much awesomeness for you to handle? Maybe in the future if you try really hard..

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5444

10/19/13 3:51:07 PM#52
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by DMKano
AAA MMOs today are in the $60,000,000+ range, and SoE doesnt have that budget for EQN anymore, they did 4 years ago, but not now. Why you ask?

Because this its 3rd iteration, they've scrapped the 2 previous games completely and have gone way overbudget on this already, let's not even mention 4 years of wasted Dev time (and look at the Dev team at EQN, none of them are juniors - so all of them are top salaries)

Why do you think they are releasing EQL as a game (with cash shop)? Remember that initially EQL was gonna be a toolset, but now SoE is making into a full blown game - $$$ cha-ching!

To help fund EQN, and to help SoE get player made content - look at the size of the EQN team, its TINY - a major AAA game would have over 200 devs - they are running with a barebone crew, again due to spending so much money on the 2 previous versions they scrapped.

So SoE currently doesn't have the $$ nor dev team to finish EQN, they need EQL to be successful and profitable, as otherwise EQN is in major trouble.

 

I actually don't know much about EQNs budget and the size of the dev-team and I couldn't find much about it online. How big is the dev team? Where is your information from??

I always assumed that SOE had written of the losses form the earlier attempts and gave  EQN a whole new big budget in 2012. Otherwise it would be an almost impossible task to produce a prestigious new game that set off to redefine the whole genre on the left over money from a previous failed project.

There where some rumours about EQN being in trouble in 2011, but that was before the reboot of the project, and it is hard so tell how valid they are.

Treat all I say as speculation - I can't talk about my sources but you can watch the reveal videos where they showed behind the close doors EQN area (including the art team on another floor)

Pay particular attention to the size of the art team, that says it all.

 

  Sengi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 341

10/19/13 3:54:28 PM#53
Originally posted by DMKano

...Why aren't they working on EQN solely if they had all this cash, why reassign most devs to EQL? if what you are saying were true, this would not be the case.

Why even have EQL? ...

EQN and EQNL are basically the same game as I see it. EQNL is in some way the beta of EQN. It has most of the game mechanics in place, it only lacks the content. There won't be any features in EQNL that won't also be in EQN. It only has different rules.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 5444

10/19/13 4:06:15 PM#54
Originally posted by Sengi
Originally posted by DMKano

...Why aren't they working on EQN solely if they had all this cash, why reassign most devs to EQL? if what you are saying were true, this would not be the case.

Why even have EQL? ...

EQN and EQNL are basically the same game as I see it. EQNL is in some way the beta of EQN. It has most of the game mechanics in place, it only lacks the content. There won't be any features in EQNL that won't also be in EQN. It only has different rules.

Oh man, I don't see it like that at all.

EQL - one crafting class, minecraft gameplay (gather and build)

EQN - multiple classes and races and combat skills, parkour system, monsters and the highly touted next gen AI, armor and weapons, quests, huge dynamic events. 

 

To me EQL and EQN are vastly different, EQL lacks over 90% of game systems that EQN will have. The only thing that the games share are the voxel based engine, the actual gameplay is minecraft vs. adventure MMORPG.

 

  Sengi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 341

10/19/13 4:20:49 PM#55
Originally posted by DMKano

Treat all I say as speculation - I can't talk about my sources but you can watch the reveal videos where they showed behind the close doors EQN area (including the art team on another floor)

Pay particular attention to the size of the art team, that says it all.

Ok, then I will do so Mr. Julian Assange. ;)

Do you mean this video? The video was staged and I would assume that there are actually more rooms in the SOE headquarters... And they probably have some things outsourced.

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11491

 
OP  10/19/13 4:46:15 PM#56
Originally posted by DMKano

EQL - one crafting class, minecraft gameplay (gather and build)

EQN - multiple classes and races and combat skills, parkour system, monsters and the highly touted next gen AI, armor and weapons, quests, huge dynamic events. 

 

To me EQL and EQN are vastly different, EQL lacks over 90% of game systems that EQN will have. The only thing that the games share are the voxel based engine, the actual gameplay is minecraft vs. adventure MMORPG.

i agree but EQNL will be exploring other features too

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/398070/Landmark-summary-at-EQN-Junkies.html

Landmark Future

Systems from EQN will migrate to Landmark Example of Combat and PvP being developed in EQN and migrating to EQNL

Movement System
Same Parkour system as EQN
Mounts will be available.
Mounts will use the Parkour/Heroic movement system as well.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

10/19/13 4:49:32 PM#57
Originally posted by shass
It's really good that these environments can be destroyed... they need to be. All the anticipation for a release that should appeal to seven year olds with a cheap tablet. It does bring a nice sense of nostalgia - graphics circa 1999 -

 

Seriously. I haven't seen a single screenshot or video of EQ:N where I felt in awe of the graphics. I mean, it looks functional. But nothing I'd make screenshots because I am so awed by what I see.

For me, TESO and EQ:N represent the opposing extremes, TESO being way TOO realistic with only brown and grey tones like someone sucked out all colours; and EQ:N like WOW 2.o. I am REALLY not one touting into the horn of "WOW clone" usually. But sheesh. Why do so many games try to emulate the WOW cartoony style? Oh and spare me the "but it ages better" crap. top graphics from 2013 are supposed to be good enough to be good at least 5-6 years. Look at Age of Conan. I mean, what good does "ages better" do, when the graphics look 10 years old from the ge go!

The textures are totally bland, I see zero atmosphere in there, total lack of detail. I can even live with the characters. But the landscapes are just horribad. I don't feel whelmed.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Sengi

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 341

10/19/13 7:59:02 PM#58
Originally posted by Elikal

Seriously. I haven't seen a single screenshot or video of EQ:N where I felt in awe of the graphics. I mean, it looks functional. But nothing I'd make screenshots because I am so awed by what I see.

For me, TESO and EQ:N represent the opposing extremes, TESO being way TOO realistic with only brown and grey tones like someone sucked out all colours; and EQ:N like WOW 2.o. I am REALLY not one touting into the horn of "WOW clone" usually. But sheesh. Why do so many games try to emulate the WOW cartoony style? Oh and spare me the "but it ages better" crap. top graphics from 2013 are supposed to be good enough to be good at least 5-6 years. Look at Age of Conan. I mean, what good does "ages better" do, when the graphics look 10 years old from the ge go!

The textures are totally bland, I see zero atmosphere in there, total lack of detail. I can even live with the characters. But the landscapes are just horribad. I don't feel whelmed.

 

I don't see what is wrong with the landscapes. They look great. The VoxelFarm engine can do things that traditional graphics can't do. In other games you always see the same three boulders that repeat everywhere. With the VoxelFarm engine every hillside looks different.

 

I think the reason why you are not blown away by the landscape jet is because they haven't shown us much jet. The landscapes we have seen so far where all kind of generic and offered no vies that go far into the landscape. You can see this far better in the demonstration videos for the engine.

They also have to get rid of the cell-shading-effect the graphics in EQN have for some reason. Maybe this shall make it fit better with the cartoony characters. The engine doesn't suggest a cartoony style at all. The whole cartoon thing is EQNs idea.

 

The castle was just build kind of sloppy and the wall texture is odd. Again the buildings in the videos for the engine took far better. I guess Dave Georgeson just wanted  to show that everyone could build something like that with no afford.

 

The video features a flight over a mountain landscape. Please tell me how you can think that Tony the Tiger looks ok but this doesn't.

  Ender4

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2096

10/19/13 9:43:37 PM#59


Seriously. I haven't seen a single screenshot or video of EQ:N where I felt in awe of the graphics. I mean, it looks functional. But nothing I'd make screenshots because I am so awed by what I see.

This simply isn't important to me. Games with graphics that 'awe' me stop doing it after about 5 hours of gameplay. At that point I don't really pay attention to the graphics anymore because the gameplay is a million times more important. I'm also not going to judge a game by some random screenshots in the pre-alpha stage while they are still building the basic parts of the graphic engine.

  Hairysun

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/05
Posts: 1068

Boo ....

10/19/13 10:04:50 PM#60

WoW ...... at this point the only hope I have for the game is that it brings new ideas to the genera.  I can certainly respect the risks associated with the sandboxy direction they have taken.  I cannot however get past the  stylized art direction they chose. 

 

Perhaps another company can take some of the good ideas and create a game geared more towards adults.

 

~Hairysun

 

http://www.straightdope.com/

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