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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » mmo RPG have we misunderstod it ??

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104 posts found
  rafalex007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 225

 
OP  10/17/13 8:25:04 AM#1

hello.

today i came here wondering, RPG : role playing game.

RPG used to be about story adventure and going through this adventure, RPG like ELDER SROLLS , or diablo or witcher or any RPG out there, they are all out living the world doing anything you can find side quests, main quests, or just wondering around.

But no in today's mmoRPG all we see is end game, everyone wants to know what about endgame, how main raid do i have or how many things is there to do, now while this is important and essential and i don't blame anyone for asking about it because it is important and you can couninue playing without it, but what about arriving to endgame!!!, how can i arrive to the point where i do have raiding or any endgame content?.

quests are the key iits the adenture we go through to arrive to endgame, its living this world we are in helping people randome one but helping the world, but whille questing is some kind of boring i think with improving it, mmos could do something great could rise again.

thanx for reading

  monochrome19

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 329

10/17/13 8:35:12 AM#2
so... what can be done to "improve" quest?
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7525

10/17/13 8:37:55 AM#3
Originally posted by monochrome19
so... what can be done to "improve" quest?

Stop making them the main focus of progression, or get rid of them completely. 

  Ender4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2097

10/17/13 8:39:22 AM#4

The key is letting us do our own thing, not coming up with some goofy story based quests. Create a world for us to experience, not a bunch of quests that we do in the same way as everyone else.

Also I find it really funny that you called Diablo an example of a RPG. The diablo series is just awful when it comes to story.

  vort3x

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/05/06
Posts: 127

10/17/13 8:55:18 AM#5

I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot, and quite simply I came to a conclusion that a perfect mmoRPG would not need quests at all, but would rather have a world so rich and full of options that the RPG element would be completely down to every individual and community as a whole. :P

Nowadays ThemePark MMOs are forcing players into some quest driven story-line that often feels like you're playing a very bad version of Skyrim...

In older MMORPGs your story in the game was more dependent on your interaction with the community... and that's good.

  monochrome19

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 329

10/17/13 9:07:16 AM#6

So, if you do away with quest how will people progress?

killing mobs all day? that would be terrible. Crafting? Eh...

Face it, quest are NECESSARY.

As mind numbing as they may be they are a vital component in the mmo soup.

  Po_gg

Elite Member

Joined: 5/12/10
Posts: 2147

10/17/13 9:09:59 AM#7

Have we misunderstood it? "we" haven't, but the majority of the present playerbase have a completely missed idea of rpg - yourself included :) "RPG like ELDER SROLLS , or diablo or witcher" lol, diablo is rpg? that was a good one. And nope, the key is not questing, it's the story (whether it's a world's story or the character's personal story) and the play.

Rpg was all about the story right from Gygax. Or call it an adventure. The numbers are just in for the random events (combat included), but with a good GM you needed to use them rarely - not to mention games like Amber, without any dice rolls (since it's a diceless game).

C-Rpgs focused on the numbers right from the beginning, since it was the easiest part of a rulebook to implement. So they were combat heavy, but still with a focus on the story. Heck, you could play through even EoB with only a handful of fights if you knew the dungeons and the mechanics, and that was maybe the most combat-focused rpg in its days :)

Somewhere after the mid 90's we started to see a change, lame "rollplayer" kidz started to show up and did nothing just make a character, throwing bigger and bigger monsters onto the arena, the dice rolled constantly, usually in one session they've leveled themselves up fully (yep, the gm was the same idiot as them), and the next weekend they started it again from scratch. World, races, npc's, story? They've had no clue. But they knew the charts inside out. Well, those are to blame for making that crapfest diablo a success, and turned the genre into the "rpg == combat, loot, levelup" of today. And the very same reason you see more and more action combat, dumbed down games (in other genres as well, strategy is on the verge of extinction behind the rts craps, adventure genre is dead, fps is the hollow shell of the past, etc)

 

ES is great, but even with it, Skyrim is weaker than Morrowind or Oblivion was (not to mention Daggerfall). Still, this weakened state pushed Skyrim to the most selling and successful part of the series. ME2 was weaker than ME, and for ME3... lol. Gothic, Dragon Age, Witcher, in every case the second (with Gothic's case the 3rd) was weaker and easier. The very same is the case with mmo's.

But there's nothing we can do about it, the majority like the current state, and if that's what sells, that's what the companies will release to them.

 

Edit: if you want to play awesome rpg's on pc, there's a dude on the main page talking 40minutes, he made a few... (hint: Ultima IV, V and VI :) )

  rafalex007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 225

 
OP  10/17/13 9:12:33 AM#8
Originally posted by monochrome19

So, if you do away with quest how will people progress?

killing mobs all day? that would be terrible. Crafting? Eh...

Face it, quest are NECESSARY.

As mind numbing as they may be they are a vital component in the mmo soup.

and improving them, would help alot someone that have finaly understood what am saying, i played some mmos without quests and as fun as they were, i still like quests more

  rafalex007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 225

 
OP  10/17/13 9:17:15 AM#9

yes Alot of peole didnt understand this, quests have stories you guys just dont read them : in all mmos i played everone goes like this :

creating a ton

bang

skiping video

bang

runing to quest

taking it

do it

handling it

bang

bang

bang

ohhhh Did i miss reading quest : yes i did because no one do anymore

  rafalex007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 225

 
OP  10/17/13 9:23:14 AM#10

and to people who blame, the so called (kids,carebears,casual)players, SHAmE on you,because in you point of view the only way to fix games is that thoes players leaving games, i mean are you guys stuped?

these so called (kids,carebears,casual) they are the maijorty and they role the market, so most games are made for them.

aka = grow up and deal with it

  Ender4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2097

10/17/13 9:25:14 AM#11


Originally posted by monochrome19
So, if you do away with quest how will people progress?

killing mobs all day? that would be terrible. Crafting? Eh...

Face it, quest are NECESSARY.

As mind numbing as they may be they are a vital component in the mmo soup.


Quests themselves are ok as a guide as to where to go but quest hub style quests are really awful. Anyway the game should allow the players to impact the world and shape it themselves. Not be a bunch of static mobs sitting around waiting for you to kill to complete a quest. The entire drive of the genre is completely wrong atm. The technology wasn't ready for this type of game when MMOs first came out but it is ready now. We just have to get away from the WoW clones.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19392

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/17/13 9:26:32 AM#12
Originally posted by rafalex007

yes Alot of peole didnt understand this, quests have stories you guys just dont read them : in all mmos i played everone goes like this :

creating a ton

bang

skiping video

bang

runing to quest

taking it

do it

handling it

bang

bang

bang

ohhhh Did i miss reading quest : yes i did because no one do anymore

Perhaps because many folks don't want to read a story, they want to "be" the story.

The trick is to come up with alternatives to questing in order to "progress" your character.

EVE uses time based skill training, so the only real progression is in obtaining wealth to achieve your objectives, be it to kill other players better, or rule the galaxy, or somewhere in between.

There's other ways of course, but quest based progression is an idea that I've certainly grown tired of, and am now playing a DAOC shard and actually enjoying the old style camp grinding/mob killing model.  

Weird I know, but I actually have more freedom of choice in this model. I get to try to figure out which mobs in which zone are the most efficient for me to kill (it matters what type of damage my weapons/spells do vs what the NPC's are strong/weak against), whether I'm soloing or grouping (changes the previous decision), which camps drop the best loot, (I've found one on the Alb side that few know about, but it's a money making machine for me) and how much travel time I wish to spend to get to each one.

As opposed to just moving from quest hub to quest hub and completing my tasks.  Most new games don't even mix it up a bit like vanilla WOW used to do, you literally just go from one to the next almost in sequence, and I feel like I've almost no freedom to vary from the path.

 

 

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  rafalex007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 225

 
OP  10/17/13 9:29:44 AM#13
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by rafalex007

yes Alot of peole didnt understand this, quests have stories you guys just dont read them : in all mmos i played everone goes like this :

creating a ton

bang

skiping video

bang

runing to quest

taking it

do it

handling it

bang

bang

bang

ohhhh Did i miss reading quest : yes i did because no one do anymore

Perhaps because many folks don't want to read a story, they want to "be" the story.

The trick is to come up with alternatives to questing in order to "progress" your character.

EVE uses time based skill training, so the only real progression is in obtaining wealth to achieve your objectives, be it to kill other players better, or rule the galaxy, or somewhere in between.

There's other ways of course, but quest based progression is an idea that I've certainly grown tired of, and am now playing a DAOC shard and actually enjoying the old style camp grinding/mob killing model.   Weird.

 

 

 

which is excatly my idea quests can be improved

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

10/17/13 9:32:36 AM#14
Originally posted by monochrome19

So, if you do away with quest how will people progress?

killing mobs all day? that would be terrible. Crafting? Eh...

Face it, quest are NECESSARY.

As mind numbing as they may be they are a vital component in the mmo soup.

UO, EVE, Puzzle Pirates and a few other MMOs didn't get that memo. Yes, some of those do have quests, but they are not necessary for gameplay, at all. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  monochrome19

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/09/13
Posts: 329

10/17/13 9:34:26 AM#15
of course everyone wants to forge their own story and have it be unique. but that still doesnt answer the question of how you remove quest and still allow for meaningful progression.
  rafalex007

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/13
Posts: 225

 
OP  10/17/13 9:38:14 AM#16
Originally posted by monochrome19
of course everyone wants to forge their own story and have it be unique. but that still doesnt answer the question of how you remove quest and still allow for meaningful progression.

cyber five

  VengeSunsoar

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4872

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

10/17/13 10:17:36 AM#17
Did you just say that in an age where games advertize having 3000, 4000 ,10000 plus quests on release that all there is to do is end game?

I musy be playing a completely different genre.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

10/17/13 10:53:27 AM#18
Originally posted by monochrome19
of course everyone wants to forge their own story and have it be unique. but that still doesnt answer the question of how you remove quest and still allow for meaningful progression.

You don't speak for me.

I want to consume professionally produced story content.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19392

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

10/17/13 11:12:55 AM#19
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by monochrome19
of course everyone wants to forge their own story and have it be unique. but that still doesnt answer the question of how you remove quest and still allow for meaningful progression.

You don't speak for me.

I want to consume professionally produced story content.

LOL, yeah, and you enjoy reading as a hobby too.    (OK, so do I)

But when I play MMORPG's, I like making the story and I wish more titles found better ways to accomplish this.

Yeah, we're opposites.

Quests can make a nice supplement to progression, but before WOW there was progression, in spite of WOW there's games that find a way to accomplish progression with out it.

Making "better" quests sounds like a worthy goal, and I think titles such as SWTOR did a pretty good job with it, if you're into that sort of thing. 

But quests can only be so good...and we might have hit the peak in that regard.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Phaserlight

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/04
Posts: 725

Do you want to improve the world? I don't think it can be done. -Lao Tzu

10/17/13 11:30:44 AM#20
I agree with "being" the story rather than consuming it. However, I think there are times when there may be no obvious direction to pursue. In those cases, I think some gentle guidance may be necessary; a "quest", if you will, that highlights some underlying feature of the game, or brings lore/legend to life.

If there is an endgame in the virtual world I inhabit, I have yet to find it.

"To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
Authored 110 missions in Vendetta Online
Check it out on Steam

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