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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » f2p projected to be $2.5B market in 2013

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207 posts found
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5507

10/17/13 11:19:51 AM#101
Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Atis-nob Free players in F2P pay too. Basically they work as advanced NPC for whales: prey to be killed by premium sword, losers to be compared with for those who bought cute skin, grind accelerator and mount. Some players don't mind being toys for rich, others pay or create 10000th thread about bad f2p.
Of the hundred or so F2P games, can you name about a dozen or so where you can buy gear superior to what can be obtained in game? Do you realize how much of your post is simply regurgitated talking points that you have not done any research or fact checking on? I get it, you have a hatred for people who play differently than you. Some people are just like that and I'm not about to try to sway you from your course at all. However - and this is just my advice to you as a fellow poster - your vitriol would bite better if you were actually stating something remotely based in reality. 
"Facts" here are like Candyman. If you say it 3 times it becomes true. Of course if you posture with hatred from a soapbox you only need to say it once.

I just don't get where the hate comes from. Does someone actually wake up one day and say, "Hey I just realized I'm playing a full on pvp game where people can buy a huge advantage over me and I never realized it."

I would really love to see complete revenue metrics for games. I know there are "whales" and "freeloaders", but I have a hard time believing that 2% of the players mainly fund a game. It's just too volatile and subject to fluctuations. It makes more sense to me that there are curves of high spenders to low. I also think the shape of that curve is highly dependent on the game style, cash shop setup, and demographics. So not every game is going to be shaped the same. It would be even more interesting to see a bunch of games plotted and how their curves relate or are dissimilar. But since I have no proof or access to data I can't support my supposition.



My guess would be that it is based on high turnover. That 2% of high spenders is constantly being rotated in and out. You find out about a F2P game, it hooks you one weekend and you blow 50 bucks on some stuff to make it more fun, then burnout and move on.

Maybe its like that, maybe not. Seems possible.

I'm the kind that will spend $50 to $100 on a game over 6 months to a year. I hadn't really considered that whale spending, but it could be. I mean I spend $60 on a sRPG plus the DLC so it seems sort of normal to me. I have always considered whales to be those people that spend $200 - $300 per month or more, which I considered outlandish.

I do think there is a churn thing there. I'm sure a lot of people do spend that $50 - $100 and then move on, but that would sort of support my theory that the curve is more sloped with more mid-tier purchases than just whales.

Another thing I would love to see correlated here is concurrency and logins compared to the revenue curve with a pivot table relating the user to the revenue generated and then how that compares to average revenue per person (I forgot the industry term for that ARPU or something?).

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/17/13 11:24:18 AM#102
Originally posted by lizardbones


This is where competition might be a good thing. It is possible to have a F2P game that is good for consumers, where they can see if they like a game, and spend money on things they like but don't need to progress. The question there is whether or not that's the way to make more money short term or long term.

I would not hold out hope for cultural unacceptability though. It's not just acceptable but expected on the mobile platform, which is probably a much larger platform than PCs and consoles combined. Those are the young people, the future gamers and the future drivers in the industry. That's also where the money is, and the industry will follow the money, regardless of opinions on the matter.

 

Good for consumer is such a difficulty thing to measure.

I can say for sure that there are F2P games, STO and Marvel Heroes in particular, that are good for me. I had fun. They are free. All good.

 

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4639

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

10/17/13 11:43:10 AM#103


Originally posted by Torvaldr
I'm the kind that will spend $50 to $100 on a game over 6 months to a year. I hadn't really considered that whale spending, but it could be. I mean I spend $60 on a sRPG plus the DLC so it seems sort of normal to me. I have always considered whales to be those people that spend $200 - $300 per month or more, which I considered outlandish.

I do think there is a churn thing there. I'm sure a lot of people do spend that $50 - $100 and then move on, but that would sort of support my theory that the curve is more sloped with more mid-tier purchases than just whales.

Another thing I would love to see correlated here is concurrency and logins compared to the revenue curve with a pivot table relating the user to the revenue generated and then how that compares to average revenue per person (I forgot the industry term for that ARPU or something?).


I'm thinking mroe along the lines of impulse buyers. Someone tries a game out, plays for a week, gets hooked, blows 40-60 bucks one weekend, plays another week or so, burns out and quits. In their mind, they got about three weeks of fun for 40-60. Pretty justifiable by today's gaming standards.

Problem is you have people who play mmos longterm for the community experience getting this revolving door effect cluttering their immersion. Neither party is wrong for wanting what they want out of the deal, but the former definitely takes the harder hit to their entertainment preferences.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/17/13 12:29:07 PM#104
Originally posted by Foomerang

Problem is you have people who play mmos longterm for the community experience getting this revolving door effect cluttering their immersion. Neither party is wrong for wanting what they want out of the deal, but the former definitely takes the harder hit to their entertainment preferences.

well, they can always find other entertainment. It is not like there is a lack of options.

I love locked room mysteries, and they are no longer written in the US mystery scene. There is really nothing i can do if my preference is not shared by the dominant part of the market except to move on.

 

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5507

10/17/13 1:18:17 PM#105
Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by Torvaldr
I'm the kind that will spend $50 to $100 on a game over 6 months to a year. I hadn't really considered that whale spending, but it could be. I mean I spend $60 on a sRPG plus the DLC so it seems sort of normal to me. I have always considered whales to be those people that spend $200 - $300 per month or more, which I considered outlandish.

I do think there is a churn thing there. I'm sure a lot of people do spend that $50 - $100 and then move on, but that would sort of support my theory that the curve is more sloped with more mid-tier purchases than just whales.

Another thing I would love to see correlated here is concurrency and logins compared to the revenue curve with a pivot table relating the user to the revenue generated and then how that compares to average revenue per person (I forgot the industry term for that ARPU or something?).


I'm thinking mroe along the lines of impulse buyers. Someone tries a game out, plays for a week, gets hooked, blows 40-60 bucks one weekend, plays another week or so, burns out and quits. In their mind, they got about three weeks of fun for 40-60. Pretty justifiable by today's gaming standards.

Problem is you have people who play mmos longterm for the community experience getting this revolving door effect cluttering their immersion. Neither party is wrong for wanting what they want out of the deal, but the former definitely takes the harder hit to their entertainment preferences.

Yeah, I do think that is a negative aspect of the revenue model and a good point. In general I've had a harder time connecting with core game communities over the last few years. I had a great guild in Rift for over a year that just evaporated over the course of a week. It was weird and really took the piss out of the game for me which is a testament to how important that aspect is in MMOs. On the other hand, I've been in a guild in EQ2 since 2008. They let me come and go as I wish (I take breaks from the game for months at a time) and we still get on great. Go figure. Did I have a point lol.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/17/13 2:37:59 PM#106
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

Yeah, I do think that is a negative aspect of the revenue model and a good point. In general I've had a harder time connecting with core game communities over the last few years. I had a great guild in Rift for over a year that just evaporated over the course of a week. It was weird and really took the piss out of the game for me which is a testament to how important that aspect is in MMOs. On the other hand, I've been in a guild in EQ2 since 2008. They let me come and go as I wish (I take breaks from the game for months at a time) and we still get on great. Go figure. Did I have a point lol.

That is my problem with guilds. I was in a raid guild before, and there was too much work, and too much commitment.

We are playing a game here, and why do i let others control my fun? That is why i think more solo content is good, LFR is good (for me).

 

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4465

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

10/17/13 2:41:21 PM#107
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

Yeah, I do think that is a negative aspect of the revenue model and a good point. In general I've had a harder time connecting with core game communities over the last few years. I had a great guild in Rift for over a year that just evaporated over the course of a week. It was weird and really took the piss out of the game for me which is a testament to how important that aspect is in MMOs. On the other hand, I've been in a guild in EQ2 since 2008. They let me come and go as I wish (I take breaks from the game for months at a time) and we still get on great. Go figure. Did I have a point lol.

That is my problem with guilds. I was in a raid guild before, and there was too much work, and too much commitment.

We are playing a game here, and why do i let others control my fun? That is why i think more solo content is good, LFR is good (for me).

 

LFR is not solo content, sir.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/17/13 2:43:42 PM#108
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

Yeah, I do think that is a negative aspect of the revenue model and a good point. In general I've had a harder time connecting with core game communities over the last few years. I had a great guild in Rift for over a year that just evaporated over the course of a week. It was weird and really took the piss out of the game for me which is a testament to how important that aspect is in MMOs. On the other hand, I've been in a guild in EQ2 since 2008. They let me come and go as I wish (I take breaks from the game for months at a time) and we still get on great. Go figure. Did I have a point lol.

That is my problem with guilds. I was in a raid guild before, and there was too much work, and too much commitment.

We are playing a game here, and why do i let others control my fun? That is why i think more solo content is good, LFR is good (for me).

 

LFR is not solo content, sir.

missing a "and" there.

I was saying "more solo content is good, and LFR is good".

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4322

10/17/13 2:45:29 PM#109
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

Yeah, I do think that is a negative aspect of the revenue model and a good point. In general I've had a harder time connecting with core game communities over the last few years. I had a great guild in Rift for over a year that just evaporated over the course of a week. It was weird and really took the piss out of the game for me which is a testament to how important that aspect is in MMOs. On the other hand, I've been in a guild in EQ2 since 2008. They let me come and go as I wish (I take breaks from the game for months at a time) and we still get on great. Go figure. Did I have a point lol.

That is my problem with guilds. I was in a raid guild before, and there was too much work, and too much commitment.

We are playing a game here, and why do i let others control my fun? That is why i think more solo content is good, LFR is good (for me).

 

I try and avoid single game guilds now because of this same reason. I've been a member of an online community since 2005 and even though I change games or stop playing a game that some friends still want to keep playing we're always part of the same community and still run into each other in games all the time. This community appoints a guild leader for each new game and they go about setting up a guild for everyone. So really you're never looking for a new guild you just join the communities guild in that game.

They're also always just a room or two away on the voice server ( we have a 500 person server that all games/guilds use ) so they're never really just gone like what so often happens in games.

I know there are lots of communities like this now and it's becoming more and more popular for people who want to stay connected and be part of the social aspects of guilds to join this way instead of each new game being a new begining.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4639

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

10/17/13 2:47:56 PM#110


Originally posted by nariusseldon
well, they can always find other entertainment. It is not like there is a lack of options.

I never said there was.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4639

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

10/17/13 2:55:27 PM#111


Originally posted by Torvaldr
Yeah, I do think that is a negative aspect of the revenue model and a good point. In general I've had a harder time connecting with core game communities over the last few years. I had a great guild in Rift for over a year that just evaporated over the course of a week. It was weird and really took the piss out of the game for me which is a testament to how important that aspect is in MMOs. On the other hand, I've been in a guild in EQ2 since 2008. They let me come and go as I wish (I take breaks from the game for months at a time) and we still get on great. Go figure. Did I have a point lol.

Its really the only legitimate thing imo where a revenue model can affect community. I think all the other stuff people throw out like monetary commitments or age or vanity items instead of crafting (me) affect different aspects of the game or are just coming out sideways from some other frustration.

Rift caved real quick for me as well. I still don't quite understand what happened. Its like everyone in my guild just burned out simultaneously a few months after storm legion.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5507

10/17/13 2:56:26 PM#112
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torvaldr
 

Yeah, I do think that is a negative aspect of the revenue model and a good point. In general I've had a harder time connecting with core game communities over the last few years. I had a great guild in Rift for over a year that just evaporated over the course of a week. It was weird and really took the piss out of the game for me which is a testament to how important that aspect is in MMOs. On the other hand, I've been in a guild in EQ2 since 2008. They let me come and go as I wish (I take breaks from the game for months at a time) and we still get on great. Go figure. Did I have a point lol.

That is my problem with guilds. I was in a raid guild before, and there was too much work, and too much commitment.

We are playing a game here, and why do i let others control my fun? That is why i think more solo content is good, LFR is good (for me).

I try and avoid single game guilds now because of this same reason. I've been a member of an online community since 2005 and even though I change games or stop playing a game that some friends still want to keep playing we're always part of the same community and still run into each other in games all the time. This community appoints a guild leader for each new game and they go about setting up a guild for everyone. So really you're never looking for a new guild you just join the communities guild in that game.

They're also always just a room or two away on the voice server ( we have a 500 person server that all games/guilds use ) so they're never really just gone like what so often happens in games.

I know there are lots of communities like this now and it's becoming more and more popular for people who want to stay connected and be part of the social aspects of guilds to join this way instead of each new game being a new begining.

I could have worded that a lot better. My apologies.

They don't boot my character(s) after long periods of absence. I should have said, they are perfectly fine with me coming and going as I please and always are friendly and inviting when I return. A good portion of them do raid and I am welcome, but they never tell what to do or try and control my online time or how I play. They're just nice people that have a solid guild and that's a rare thing to me.

I also hate when people try and dictate how I should spend my gaming time and how I should play which is a major factor in me not raiding anymore. That isn't only true of raiding guilds though. There are a lot of small to medium guilds with aspirations of greatness that have this vision how the guild and members will work. They've always seemed pretty controlling to me too. PvP guilds and most guilds that bill themselves as "hardcore" fit this ticket.

I don't care if a guild is single game or multi-game as long as the experience is friendly and personal. I'm not a huge fan of joining mega guilds, answering website recruitment forms, real money guild dues, or anything as a formal real life club. I like more personal guild interaction.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4322

10/17/13 3:04:38 PM#113
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by DamonVile

I try and avoid single game guilds now because of this same reason. I've been a member of an online community since 2005 and even though I change games or stop playing a game that some friends still want to keep playing we're always part of the same community and still run into each other in games all the time. This community appoints a guild leader for each new game and they go about setting up a guild for everyone. So really you're never looking for a new guild you just join the communities guild in that game.

They're also always just a room or two away on the voice server ( we have a 500 person server that all games/guilds use ) so they're never really just gone like what so often happens in games.

I know there are lots of communities like this now and it's becoming more and more popular for people who want to stay connected and be part of the social aspects of guilds to join this way instead of each new game being a new begining.

I could have worded that a lot better. My apologies.

They don't boot my character(s) after long periods of absence. I should have said, they are perfectly fine with me coming and going as I please and always are friendly and inviting when I return. A good portion of them do raid and I am welcome, but they never tell what to do or try and control my online time or how I play. They're just nice people that have a solid guild and that's a rare thing to me.

I also hate when people try and dictate how I should spend my gaming time and how I should play which is a major factor in me not raiding anymore. That isn't only true of raiding guilds though. There are a lot of small to medium guilds with aspirations of greatness that have this vision how the guild and members will work. They've always seemed pretty controlling to me too. PvP guilds and most guilds that bill themselves as "hardcore" fit this ticket.

I don't care if a guild is single game or multi-game as long as the experience is friendly and personal. I'm not a huge fan of joining mega guilds, answering website recruitment forms, real money guild dues, or anything as a formal real life club. I like more personal guild interaction.

I understood what you meant I just quoted it all to keep it relevant to what we were talking about, it is kind of off topic :)

Mega guilds sure have some down sides...like it's hard to get away from people you don't like when they're part of the same community and show up game after game :P

I mostly stay in mine because of the reasons I listed. Meeting up with old friends and it's an easy way to stay in touch with people you do like playing with. Joining a guild in a new game and knowing 80% of the people in it already is the most appealing thing they offer to me.

The hoops you have to jump though like you mention are for sure some of the negatives.

People are like cats. When they die, you get a new one.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5507

10/17/13 3:16:15 PM#114

Thanks for explaining. Even though it's slightly OT, it is sort of relevant because I think community is a serious factor in keeping us playing and paying.

So my EQ2 example, a good part of the reason I still play the game and return often is because I like the people I game with not just because the game itself is fun to me. Foomerang makes a great point about how communities work in F2P and P2P games. Part of the metrics I would be interested in seeing, if it's even possible to quantify it, would be how community influences the F2P and P2P revenue streams.

So when we sort out how our guilds and communities work, it really is relevant to me in the larger picture. Yeah, the details were a bit OT, but if that helps frame perspective in the larger picture then it makes sense to discuss it.

Narius has been quite clear on many occasions that he doesn't play for community. He plays purely for the game play and he seems to play mostly free and that's okay for him. I'm not that way. How long I stay with a game and if I return at some point are heavily dependent on how well I click with the community. As a result how much I spend over time is influenced by that. So my long term revenue projection for SoE games is very much dependent on my game community. I don't think I'm alone in that either.

Raph Koster made a point about cash grabs (either in the AMA or the "why fanboism is bad" thread) and how some studios know they have a short burner and so go for the quick revenue return. How much of the projected $2.5Bn is based on quick revenue or trying to build long term community in a revenue model that is very churn friendly? How successful is P2P just because of community? Those are relevant I think in the larger market discussion.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19117

 
OP  10/17/13 3:23:47 PM#115
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Narius has been quite clear on many occasions that he doesn't play for community. He plays purely for the game play and he seems to play mostly free and that's okay for him. I'm not that way. How long I stay with a game and if I return at some point are heavily dependent on how well I click with the community. As a result how much I spend over time is influenced by that. So my long term revenue projection for SoE games is very much dependent on my game community. I don't think I'm alone in that either.

Raph Koster made a point about cash grabs (either in the AMA or the "why fanboism is bad" thread) and how some studios know they have a short burner and so go for the quick revenue return. How much of the projected $2.5Bn is based on quick revenue or trying to build long term community in a revenue model that is very churn friendly? How successful is P2P just because of community? Those are relevant I think in the larger market discussion.

Clearly neither of us are alone.

But don't you think that the now quite dominant f2p model is evidence that not many players are willing to pay a premium to have stable games?

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11822

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

10/17/13 3:25:48 PM#116
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Atis-nob Free players in F2P pay too. Basically they work as advanced NPC for whales: prey to be killed by premium sword, losers to be compared with for those who bought cute skin, grind accelerator and mount. Some players don't mind being toys for rich, others pay or create 10000th thread about bad f2p.
Of the hundred or so F2P games, can you name about a dozen or so where you can buy gear superior to what can be obtained in game? Do you realize how much of your post is simply regurgitated talking points that you have not done any research or fact checking on? I get it, you have a hatred for people who play differently than you. Some people are just like that and I'm not about to try to sway you from your course at all. However - and this is just my advice to you as a fellow poster - your vitriol would bite better if you were actually stating something remotely based in reality. 
"Facts" here are like Candyman. If you say it 3 times it becomes true. Of course if you posture with hatred from a soapbox you only need to say it once.

 

I just don't get where the hate comes from. Does someone actually wake up one day and say, "Hey I just realized I'm playing a full on pvp game where people can buy a huge advantage over me and I never realized it."

I would really love to see complete revenue metrics for games. I know there are "whales" and "freeloaders", but I have a hard time believing that 2% of the players mainly fund a game. It's just too volatile and subject to fluctuations. It makes more sense to me that there are curves of high spenders to low. I also think the shape of that curve is highly dependent on the game style, cash shop setup, and demographics. So not every game is going to be shaped the same. It would be even more interesting to see a bunch of games plotted and how their curves relate or are dissimilar. But since I have no proof or access to data I can't support my supposition.



My guess would be that it is based on high turnover. That 2% of high spenders is constantly being rotated in and out. You find out about a F2P game, it hooks you one weekend and you blow 50 bucks on some stuff to make it more fun, then burnout and move on.

 

Maybe its like that, maybe not. Seems possible.

Turnover definitely comes into play, which explains the number of about 40% spending on F2P games as a whole, but ~10% in each game spending at any given time in a particular game. The churn is probably higher than sub games for a variety of reasons but i don't know if it's that much higher. High churn would mean A LOT more people are spending in F2P games than previously thought. 

  Lonestryder

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/02/07
Posts: 167

_______
4 4 4

10/17/13 3:31:42 PM#117
Originally posted by stayBlind

I hope that we have to pay for each life we use as a character; I would really like to see a move back to the arcade era. I really liked the fact that when I died playing Pac Man I had to pay more money to keep playing the game.

I think that the MMO market is moving in the right direction. Game companies should offer the gameplay for free and allow the user to purchase things like allowing their character to have running animations and animations for when a character jumps: purely cosmetic things. 

I really enjoy free to play games, and I enjoy them because said games allow me to play it my way. Free to play games do not force me to pay for cosmetic things that I find useless like spell effects or textures. Instead, I can get the important stuff for FREE (how awesome is that)!

Anyways, I am really looking forward to EQ: Next because I believe that it will everything that I am looking for in a game. I have always wanted to play an eight foot tall Ogre character with charmingly good looks that could sneak up on people and assassinate them, and no game has allowed me to do something like this before. I believe that EQ: Next will be the next WoW killer.

 

I could not possibly disagree more with every word of this. In fact, it represents a 180 degree departure from my thinking on the subject.

 

Diversity is cool, though.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5507

10/17/13 3:52:45 PM#118
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Torvaldr

Narius has been quite clear on many occasions that he doesn't play for community. He plays purely for the game play and he seems to play mostly free and that's okay for him. I'm not that way. How long I stay with a game and if I return at some point are heavily dependent on how well I click with the community. As a result how much I spend over time is influenced by that. So my long term revenue projection for SoE games is very much dependent on my game community. I don't think I'm alone in that either.

Raph Koster made a point about cash grabs (either in the AMA or the "why fanboism is bad" thread) and how some studios know they have a short burner and so go for the quick revenue return. How much of the projected $2.5Bn is based on quick revenue or trying to build long term community in a revenue model that is very churn friendly? How successful is P2P just because of community? Those are relevant I think in the larger market discussion.

Clearly neither of us are alone.

But don't you think that the now quite dominant f2p model is evidence that not many players are willing to pay a premium to have stable games?

I don't think it signals that many players are unwilling to pay a premium. I think it is evidence that many players would rather pay for their gaming in other ways than being tied to a mandatory subscription.

There are several styles of cash shops and ways of selling games I don't like, about as much as I don't like renting temporary access to a game through a sub. It's just that there are also very good cash shops and game and those I like and I support those companies financially.

I also think it supports what Raph Koster said in a thread yesterday that F2P allows the publisher to find out how much a player is willing to actually pay, rather than making that assumption for them or setting a minimum bar. Personally I think pubs/devs charge way too much for MMOs. They also spend way too much money making them. I don't see a good future for a gaming sub-genre (mmos) that feels it must spend $50 - $250M just to make a game.

As our online connectivity and interaction matures I think how we pay for and access entertainment will also grudgingly follow. Think how much more robust the internet is now compared to 15 years ago. So what we see today in F2P and P2P won't be the same in 5 to 10 years.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Foomerang

Elite Member

Joined: 11/10/05
Posts: 4639

A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still

10/17/13 4:09:49 PM#119


Originally posted by Torvaldr
As our online connectivity and interaction matures I think how we pay for and access entertainment will also grudgingly follow. Think how much more robust the internet is now compared to 15 years ago. So what we see today in F2P and P2P won't be the same in 5 to 10 years.

I think that magical 15 bucks a month is purely an intrinsic value at this point. However, it becomes validated with every f2p cash grab mmo that crawls out of the woodwork. Obviously thats not every f2p mmo, in fact Id say its in the minority. But it does lend to the payment model begrudgingly moving forward with technology.

If you thought the events were dynamic, you'll think the stories are living.

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5507

10/17/13 4:14:39 PM#120
Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Torvaldr
As our online connectivity and interaction matures I think how we pay for and access entertainment will also grudgingly follow. Think how much more robust the internet is now compared to 15 years ago. So what we see today in F2P and P2P won't be the same in 5 to 10 years.


I think that magical 15 bucks a month is purely an intrinsic value at this point. However, it becomes validated with every f2p cash grab mmo that crawls out of the woodwork. Obviously thats not every f2p mmo, in fact Id say its in the minority. But it does lend to the payment model begrudgingly moving forward with technology.

 

Agreed. On top of that I think as much as we all say we like change, we are much more comfortable and secure with what we know. The place you don't want to stand out from the crowd is being more expensive. If a dev/pub actually created a super excellent game (you know the dream game thingy) but charged $25 a month for it I think it would be as well received as we would like to think. Not because it might not be worth it, but because differentiating amongst other businesses by asking for more money will be a focus point.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

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