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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » f2p projected to be $2.5B market in 2013

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207 posts found
  Atis-nob

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/01/12
Posts: 48

10/16/13 1:43:17 AM#61
Originally posted by nariusseldon
'this is free, do you want to play it?'"

Translation from Smedish 'Entrance fee to our bazaar is zero, do you want to come in and check price tags on goods?'

 

OFC f2p is more profitable, same as junkfood franchise is more profitable than decent restaurant. But decent restaurants exist near mcdonald's and we have a choice, while in MMO industry games for more exacting players are nearly extinct. f2p is ok, extruding p2p model is not. I think, when market will settle, we'll have less wanna-be-wow and more various products for different niches, even small ones. Too bad, I'll be old by that time.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

10/16/13 2:00:10 AM#62

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

Asian grinders have been shit for years.

More crap statistics that mean nothing. No break down on markets, which type of games, revenue models, none of that.

 

Just Smedley running his mouth to run his mouth and get some press coverage for the next average SOE release.

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12254

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/16/13 3:06:25 AM#63
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Yamota

F2P is a sham. It is a way for corporations to suck out money from weakminded people who sink more and more money into a video game. Granted not all, I would say even most, F2P players are like that, but they are who are keeping F2P games up.

Funny,  You can say this exact same phrase almost word for word and be talking about p2p.

Nope. In a traditional P2P, not the one's which have a cash shop and thus double dipping, you pay a small fixed amount per month and every couple of years you pay a fixed amount for an expansion. So there is no way for them to charge you more than that, which you have in so called F2P games which are often built up in a way to nickle and dime you if you want this or that item/bonus etc. 

Sure not everyone needs to pay, and thus get a less than ideal experience, but the fact that they are projecting a 2.5 billion revenue shows that a lot of people are.

There are several problems with that argument. The first being the P2P with no additional services/items offered for a fee - do many of those exist? Do ANY of those exist? The second being that you have rationalized an expansion to somehow be different from any other microtransaction when it is not just the same but ticks every box that the people here check when railing against cash shops:

  • - using your fifteen bucks to make stuff to sell back to you, thus diverting those devs and resources away from regular content development
  • - paying for an advantage
  • - not getting all the content for your monthly fee
 

Is your issue the charge or the change? It seems very much like the latter.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4791

10/16/13 5:54:04 AM#64
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 

More crap statistics that mean nothing. No break down on markets, which type of games, revenue models, none of that.

 

Where did you get the 80% from. What makes your stat not a crap statistic that means nothing ?

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/16/13 8:50:43 AM#65

MOBAs make up the bulk of that push. MMORPGs are not part of that major push. F2P and MMORPGs are not mixing nearly as well as other types of games. I think part of that is the players themselves pushing back against the idea. Humans are pretty risk averse. It doesn't take too many games, whether they are on phones or on the PCs where the developer tries to coerce the player into spending more money to continue playing before the MMORPG player just does not like F2P in general. I think that's why Wildstar and ESO are going with subscriptions. The MMO market is moving towards F2P, because in general it's possible to make more money, in the MMORPG market is not sold on the idea, except as a follow up to an initial subscription attempt.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Phry

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5249

10/16/13 8:58:53 AM#66
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 

More crap statistics that mean nothing. No break down on markets, which type of games, revenue models, none of that.

 

Where did you get the 80% from. What makes your stat not a crap statistic that means nothing ?

If you look at all the games in the games list here that are F2P you can get a 'general' sort of idea of where most of them are from, i wouldnt like to guess the exact percentage, but it does look like most of them are from a 'certain area' certainly they more than outnumber the P2P MMO's by a fairly significant percentage, perhaps the reason why ESO and Wildstar will be P2P games is because when you look at the 'wealth distribution' there is more money involved in P2P than F2P on a per game basis, its just that the F2P market looks much bigger because there are just so many of them - regardless of origin of the games.

  User Deleted
10/16/13 10:47:59 AM#67

So much junk to wade through now. Just like every other entertainment media.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19753

 
OP  10/16/13 11:02:01 AM#68
Originally posted by lizardbones

MOBAs make up the bulk of that push. MMORPGs are not part of that major push. F2P and MMORPGs are not mixing nearly as well as other types of games. I think part of that is the players themselves pushing back against the idea. Humans are pretty risk averse. It doesn't take too many games, whether they are on phones or on the PCs where the developer tries to coerce the player into spending more money to continue playing before the MMORPG player just does not like F2P in general. I think that's why Wildstar and ESO are going with subscriptions. The MMO market is moving towards F2P, because in general it's possible to make more money, in the MMORPG market is not sold on the idea, except as a follow up to an initial subscription attempt.

Sure.

The future of the MMO market may not be MMORPG anyway. MOBA is big now. WoT type instanced games are big now. Devs are trying new stuff like Destiny.

 

  Nadia

Elite Member

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11490

10/16/13 11:02:41 AM#69
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 from Ops source site

http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/online-games-research/

 

 

  Gruug

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 1181

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

10/16/13 11:11:36 AM#70

Ah yes. We once again hear how "great" f2p is and how much money they are GOING to make. But wait. If they were truly FREE how is it that they make money? Answer, they are far from free. Either someone is spending their money so that all the freeloader can play for free OR the game is losing money. In fact, the games that are f2p could be losing money because we only hear about how many PLAYERS have signed up and rarely how much money THEY SPEND. F2p is a scam. Those that want to avoid paying and be able to freeload don't wish to admit to this. The companies pushing this fraud don't want to tell the truth about it. And the game "fanbois" don't want to see their pride and joy spoken badly about. I think it is about time we take a good hard look at what the truth about so-called f2p really is....it is a ding joint.

 

Let's party like it is 1863!

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 2908

10/16/13 11:23:09 AM#71
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 from Ops source site

http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/online-games-research/

 

 

And what does all that prove exactly ?

 

You won't know unless you subscribe to the SuperData Research reports. If you don't pay this company to access their data, you could be losing out on 100's of millions of $ worth of revenue !

Seems like the only party who are guaranteed to make money out of this apparent "F2P Boom" is SuperData Research...

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19753

 
OP  10/16/13 11:32:01 AM#72
Originally posted by Gruug

Ah yes. We once again hear how "great" f2p is and how much money they are GOING to make. But wait. If they were truly FREE how is it that they make money?

 

Simple. Whales.

Free for me. Expensive for whales. It works.

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2757

10/16/13 4:12:28 PM#73
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 from Ops source site

http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/online-games-research/

 

 

And what does all that prove exactly ?

 

You won't know unless you subscribe to the SuperData Research reports. If you don't pay this company to access their data, you could be losing out on 100's of millions of $ worth of revenue !

Seems like the only party who are guaranteed to make money out of this apparent "F2P Boom" is SuperData Research...

Exactly right.

(And btw, where are S Korea, Taiwan, China, Japan, and even Russia? Those places are where the F2P players mostly come from.)

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4791

10/16/13 5:03:37 PM#74
Originally posted by Gruug

Ah yes. We once again hear how "great" f2p is and how much money they are GOING to make. But wait. If they were truly FREE how is it that they make money? Answer, they are far from free

 

I don't remember the last time anyone was actually confused by how free to play worked so... I'm sorry you still are ?

If you're really trying to make  this silly argument why don't you just go bump a 2 year old thread or something. At least it wont be so pout of place.

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12254

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/16/13 5:06:52 PM#75
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 from Ops source site

http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/online-games-research/

 

 

And what does all that prove exactly ?

 

You won't know unless you subscribe to the SuperData Research reports. If you don't pay this company to access their data, you could be losing out on 100's of millions of $ worth of revenue !

Seems like the only party who are guaranteed to make money out of this apparent "F2P Boom" is SuperData Research...

Considering companies have been buying the data for a couple years now - companies that have other data to check it against - then maybe there's some validity to the numbers and how they arrived at them. Honestly, even if the anti-F2P people here had the money to burn(and for all I know, some of you do), I'd suggest you never buy their reports. That much supported fact contradicting so many of your adamant beliefs would certain be hazardous to your health. 

I mean, seriously... dismissing the data because you're not going to be suckered in by this snake oil like those clowns at Deloitt, Microsoft, Google, MorganStanley, PayPal, Casual Connect... because they don't know nearly as much about the industry as you do, right?

It just gets really silly sometimes. 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  DamonVile

Elite Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4791

10/16/13 5:08:29 PM#76
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 from Ops source site

http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/online-games-research/

 

 

And what does all that prove exactly ?

 

You won't know unless you subscribe to the SuperData Research reports. If you don't pay this company to access their data, you could be losing out on 100's of millions of $ worth of revenue !

Seems like the only party who are guaranteed to make money out of this apparent "F2P Boom" is SuperData Research...

Exactly right.

(And btw, where are S Korea, Taiwan, China, Japan, and even Russia? Those places are where the F2P players mostly come from.)

 I'm not saying their data is correct or not but it's showing what the avg spent per month is.  $31/month is higher than $15/month ( what subs are )....so if the real f2p players are in the missing markets what does that say about the argument you're trying to make here ?

There's a saying about evolution and why we have two eyes and two ears but only one mouth. Clearly it didn't see the internet coming or it never would have given us ten fingers to type with.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12254

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Project Gorgon, and Combat Arms

10/16/13 5:09:25 PM#77
Originally posted by DamonVile
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by SpottyGekko
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Burntvet

Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?

 from Ops source site

http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/online-games-research/

 

 

And what does all that prove exactly ?

 

You won't know unless you subscribe to the SuperData Research reports. If you don't pay this company to access their data, you could be losing out on 100's of millions of $ worth of revenue !

Seems like the only party who are guaranteed to make money out of this apparent "F2P Boom" is SuperData Research...

Exactly right.

(And btw, where are S Korea, Taiwan, China, Japan, and even Russia? Those places are where the F2P players mostly come from.)

 I'm not saying their data is correct or not but it's showing what the avg spent per month is.  $31/month is higher than $15/month ( what subs are )....so if the real f2p players are in the missing markets what does that say about the argument you're trying to make here ?

At that point, we're talking some crazy money then. :) 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Mendel

Elite Member

Joined: 7/22/11
Posts: 632

10/16/13 5:20:10 PM#78
Originally posted by Loktofeit

Considering companies have been buying the data for a couple years now - companies that have other data to check it against - then maybe there's some validity to the numbers and how they arrived at them. Honestly, even if the anti-F2P people here had the money to burn(and for all I know, some of you do), I'd suggest you never buy their reports. That much supported fact contradicting so many of your adamant beliefs would certain be hazardous to your health. 

I mean, seriously... dismissing the data because you're not going to be suckered in by this snake oil like those clowns at Deloitt, Microsoft, Google, MorganStanley, PayPal, Casual Connect... because they don't know nearly as much about the industry as you do, right?

It just gets really silly sometimes. 

*chuckles*

Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10633

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

10/16/13 5:20:48 PM#79


Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Burntvet Since 80% or more of that so called F2P MMO revenue is likely in Asia, who cares?
 from Ops source site http://www.superdataresearch.com/market-data/online-games-research/    
And what does all that prove exactly ?   You won't know unless you subscribe to the SuperData Research reports. If you don't pay this company to access their data, you could be losing out on 100's of millions of $ worth of revenue ! Seems like the only party who are guaranteed to make money out of this apparent "F2P Boom" is SuperData Research...
Exactly right.

(And btw, where are S Korea, Taiwan, China, Japan, and even Russia? Those places are where the F2P players mostly come from.)




F2P is growing in the West, mostly in the U.S. It's probably reached a market saturation point in Asia, so not much point in showing people, especially western developers, those numbers.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19753

 
OP  10/16/13 5:34:18 PM#80
Originally posted by DamonVile
  $31/month is higher than $15/month ( what subs are )....so if the real f2p players are in the missing markets what does that say about the argument you're trying to make here ?

That is average per paid players. There are lots who don't.

 

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