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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Clause live streaming honest discussion about future of Darkfall.

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88 posts found
  Holophonist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2000

10/14/13 4:22:00 PM#41
Originally posted by stux
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by stux
Originally posted by Holophonist

I'm sorry but if you quit this game because of people hacking, you're making excuses. Most of the top players have released pvp videos where you can clearly see that they're better than the vast majority of players. It's possible they also hack when they're not recording, but it seems more likely that people are just complaining, like they always do.

 

It happens in every game. Watch starcraft 2 streams and you'll see how often these prominent, well known players are accusing other people have stream cheating, wall hacking, etc. But then somebody in their chat will point out that the accused is actually streaming himself, and you can very clearly see that he is not cheating.

 

People will ALWAYS make excuses for why they lose.

People cheat.  You can record a video of yourself cheating and post it as its not going to show the program you are using to do while you are playing the game unless you want to show it and very few are that dumb. 

 

Want to see some starcraft 2 cheats:  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBZT2ukipkc&feature=player_embedded#!

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/167781/Indepth_Extravagant_cheating_via_Direct_X.php#.URpoY6VEHl-

 

It happens in darkfall as well on many different levels.

 

 It happens in every game.  That is only part of the problem though.

 

Obviously, if the game is running into money troubles and some people help them out more then other favorites will be played.  Who gets banned and who doesn't.  Who do the GM's help and who doesn't.

 

If AV is having money troubles and looks to its community for financial aid those that contribute are very likely to look and maybe get benefit from it imo.

 

Aside, from that other issues have been covered in other threads on this website.

I'm not dumb enough to claim that cheats don't exist. I'm saying if you're quitting based on the pretense that cheating is affecting your experience in any kind of a significant way, you're lying to yourself. I've played over 5,000 games of sc2 and I can guarantee you that cheating has had less of an impact on my playing experience than snowstorms taking my power out. It's an excuse.

I am not talking about SC2.  I was just pointed out its not that hard to if you want.

 

I am talking about in DFUW and yes there are people cheating in the game.  They just don't run around showing you how to do it via recording videos of it and posting them on youtube.

The best programmers can easily record playing the game and post what they want you to see and it would be very hard to tell the difference.

I have seen it in the game.  Is it completely out of control?  NO.  But its there and some people will leave as a result depending on how it effects them.

What have you seen in game exactly?

  -Zeno-

Novice Member

Joined: 12/22/05
Posts: 1301

10/14/13 4:37:58 PM#42
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by stux
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by stux
Originally posted by Holophonist

I'm sorry but if you quit this game because of people hacking, you're making excuses. Most of the top players have released pvp videos where you can clearly see that they're better than the vast majority of players. It's possible they also hack when they're not recording, but it seems more likely that people are just complaining, like they always do.

 

It happens in every game. Watch starcraft 2 streams and you'll see how often these prominent, well known players are accusing other people have stream cheating, wall hacking, etc. But then somebody in their chat will point out that the accused is actually streaming himself, and you can very clearly see that he is not cheating.

 

People will ALWAYS make excuses for why they lose.

People cheat.  You can record a video of yourself cheating and post it as its not going to show the program you are using to do while you are playing the game unless you want to show it and very few are that dumb. 

 

Want to see some starcraft 2 cheats:  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBZT2ukipkc&feature=player_embedded#!

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/167781/Indepth_Extravagant_cheating_via_Direct_X.php#.URpoY6VEHl-

 

It happens in darkfall as well on many different levels.

 

 It happens in every game.  That is only part of the problem though.

 

Obviously, if the game is running into money troubles and some people help them out more then other favorites will be played.  Who gets banned and who doesn't.  Who do the GM's help and who doesn't.

 

If AV is having money troubles and looks to its community for financial aid those that contribute are very likely to look and maybe get benefit from it imo.

 

Aside, from that other issues have been covered in other threads on this website.

I'm not dumb enough to claim that cheats don't exist. I'm saying if you're quitting based on the pretense that cheating is affecting your experience in any kind of a significant way, you're lying to yourself. I've played over 5,000 games of sc2 and I can guarantee you that cheating has had less of an impact on my playing experience than snowstorms taking my power out. It's an excuse.

I am not talking about SC2.  I was just pointed out its not that hard to if you want.

 

I am talking about in DFUW and yes there are people cheating in the game.  They just don't run around showing you how to do it via recording videos of it and posting them on youtube.

The best programmers can easily record playing the game and post what they want you to see and it would be very hard to tell the difference.

I have seen it in the game.  Is it completely out of control?  NO.  But its there and some people will leave as a result depending on how it effects them.

What have you seen in game exactly?

I have seen several videos of people explaining cheats or doing them.  All, that I could make out the name, appear on the Unholy Ban Hammer.  Some even before the video was posted.

AV has a detection system for this stuff.  They still review it with a live person before they lay down the ban hammer.  Stuff like this is present in every game known to man and takes time to verify.

The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.

  Holophonist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/15/09
Posts: 2000

10/14/13 4:53:45 PM#43
Originally posted by -Zeno-
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by stux
Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by stux
Originally posted by Holophonist

I'm sorry but if you quit this game because of people hacking, you're making excuses. Most of the top players have released pvp videos where you can clearly see that they're better than the vast majority of players. It's possible they also hack when they're not recording, but it seems more likely that people are just complaining, like they always do.

 

It happens in every game. Watch starcraft 2 streams and you'll see how often these prominent, well known players are accusing other people have stream cheating, wall hacking, etc. But then somebody in their chat will point out that the accused is actually streaming himself, and you can very clearly see that he is not cheating.

 

People will ALWAYS make excuses for why they lose.

People cheat.  You can record a video of yourself cheating and post it as its not going to show the program you are using to do while you are playing the game unless you want to show it and very few are that dumb. 

 

Want to see some starcraft 2 cheats:  

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBZT2ukipkc&feature=player_embedded#!

http://gamasutra.com/view/news/167781/Indepth_Extravagant_cheating_via_Direct_X.php#.URpoY6VEHl-

 

It happens in darkfall as well on many different levels.

 

 It happens in every game.  That is only part of the problem though.

 

Obviously, if the game is running into money troubles and some people help them out more then other favorites will be played.  Who gets banned and who doesn't.  Who do the GM's help and who doesn't.

 

If AV is having money troubles and looks to its community for financial aid those that contribute are very likely to look and maybe get benefit from it imo.

 

Aside, from that other issues have been covered in other threads on this website.

I'm not dumb enough to claim that cheats don't exist. I'm saying if you're quitting based on the pretense that cheating is affecting your experience in any kind of a significant way, you're lying to yourself. I've played over 5,000 games of sc2 and I can guarantee you that cheating has had less of an impact on my playing experience than snowstorms taking my power out. It's an excuse.

I am not talking about SC2.  I was just pointed out its not that hard to if you want.

 

I am talking about in DFUW and yes there are people cheating in the game.  They just don't run around showing you how to do it via recording videos of it and posting them on youtube.

The best programmers can easily record playing the game and post what they want you to see and it would be very hard to tell the difference.

I have seen it in the game.  Is it completely out of control?  NO.  But its there and some people will leave as a result depending on how it effects them.

What have you seen in game exactly?

I have seen several videos of people explaining cheats or doing them.  All, that I could make out the name, appear on the Unholy Ban Hammer.  Some even before the video was posted.

AV has a detection system for this stuff.  They still review it with a live person before they lay down the ban hammer.  Stuff like this is present in every game known to man and takes time to verify.

Again, I'm not saying cheating doesn't exist in the world of video games. I'm saying it doesn't exist enough to significantly change your playing experience, not by a long shot.

 

And seeing videos of people isn't the same as seeing things in-game. That's my point. It's easy to get fired up about a video that clearly shows somebody cheating, but that video, which may get thousands of views, is only 1 instance of cheating in-game. 

  Electro057

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/09
Posts: 537

10/14/13 4:59:40 PM#44

Lol.....Game that discourages new players or players that have real lives having a hard time paying the bills? I wonder why? I mean games don't need new blood or subscriptions to thrive, we should treat new players like shit and the devs should encourage that trollish behaviour! If every PvP game isn't the thriving pit of vitriol and hatred that is LoL obviously you aren't doing it right!

Maybe....just maybe....You should make it more "Hurrr hurr carebear..." friendly? I mean....Unless you don't want folk's money.

--Custom Rig: Maker's Forge---
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Windows 7 Ultimate

  Sparky22

Novice Member

Joined: 10/14/13
Posts: 1

10/14/13 5:13:43 PM#45
Paying 100k EU Gold for stream footage
  User Deleted
10/14/13 6:07:36 PM#46

20K subscriptions, he WAS drunk!  

20K or 2K, DFUW needs to increase paying subscriptions by 75% based on Clauses numbers.

  MrBoots

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/03
Posts: 279

10/15/13 12:23:52 AM#47
I would imagine he meant 20k purchases not 20k active subscriptions. There's no way darkfall has 20k active subscribers.
  User Deleted
10/15/13 10:59:25 AM#48
Originally posted by MrBoots
I would imagine he meant 20k purchases not 20k active subscriptions. There's no way darkfall has 20k active subscribers.

Whatever the number, it's not enough to keep DFUW open according to Claus.

.

  Ender4

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2044

10/15/13 11:03:16 AM#49

If you are going to make a game aimed at a niche market and actually charge for it, you better make a great game. They made a mediocre one.

Of course the game is in trouble.

  Mad+Dog

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/02/10
Posts: 661

10/15/13 11:04:05 AM#50
let it rot...

  IstrebiteI

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/28/11
Posts: 270

10/15/13 2:40:37 PM#51

2 <a data-cke-saved-href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Holophonist" href="http://www.mmorpg.com/profile.cfm/username/Holophonist" title="View information about Holophonist" suhlink"="">Holophonist

I see your point. You are saying to not blame cheats for every loss - like, this guy headshots me every time = he's cheater, this guy found me while I was invis = he's cheater, this guy guessed where we were approaching from = he's cheater, and so on. Yes, in WoW this happened (famous merge of EU and RU in Vindication battlegroup where for some hours russians could get matched against europeans, where RU owned EU so hard that EU players whined on forums about hacks and cheats, which were actually clever usage of items and potions like invis potion or free action potion).

But that doesn't invalidate the point about hackers. What you say is legit - we must look at truth about cheaters before we pronounce the game unplayable because of them. But if there are enough cheaters, more than certain tolerance point, then you must agree that it's a valid reason to stop playing the game. And in a full loot PVP game even one such encounter can throw you off and that's a valid excuse - I farmed this stuff only to have it taken from me in an unfair way? No thanks, I won't farm it again, I'll play a game where my stuff is secure from cheaters.

The problem really is just intensified by the fact darkfall is full loot PVP game - in WoW, LoL, CS you only lose time spent on playing the exact matchup when you meet a cheater - that's like 10 or 20 minutes of your life, but in full loot PVP game you can lose much more than that... and it is NEVER refunded to you! That's the problem - they don't want to refund players who were owned via exploits... or cannot (no excuse btw, you can always make your game do nessecary logs to be able to refund).

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

10/15/13 2:45:00 PM#52

Had they added more sandbox type features instead of being pure PvP/Conquest, I would have stuck around and paid a sub.  The game has promise as something more than it currently is.  The model failed before, and it's failing now.  It simply does not have broad enough appeal in its design to hold many subscribers.  

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Deerhunter71

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/25/05
Posts: 546

10/15/13 4:09:53 PM#53
Originally posted by MindTrigger

Had they added more sandbox type features instead of being pure PvP/Conquest, I would have stuck around and paid a sub.  The game has promise as something more than it currently is.  The model failed before, and it's failing now.  It simply does not have broad enough appeal in its design to hold many subscribers.  

This if there was more MMO "fluff" and other things to do this would be huge I think.  But they still only have basically an open MMO world for arena-pvp.  They must put in a lot of other fluff or there is no hope of broader appeal.

  Lustmord

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 1039

 
OP  10/15/13 10:20:21 PM#54
Originally posted by Deerhunter71
Originally posted by MindTrigger

Had they added more sandbox type features instead of being pure PvP/Conquest, I would have stuck around and paid a sub.  The game has promise as something more than it currently is.  The model failed before, and it's failing now.  It simply does not have broad enough appeal in its design to hold many subscribers.  

This if there was more MMO "fluff" and other things to do this would be huge I think.  But they still only have basically an open MMO world for arena-pvp.  They must put in a lot of other fluff or there is no hope of broader appeal.

People often ask for more "fluff"..

They have city building, crafting, ship building, pirating, treasure hunting, dungeons, and the markets...

What more "fluff" can you suggest? Be specific please.

  Salenger

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/29/04
Posts: 504

The true character of a man can be seen when they are given power.

10/15/13 10:36:12 PM#55

DF 1 was my favorite MMo in the last ten years.

DFUW......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWL90wryyOw

  Salenger

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/29/04
Posts: 504

The true character of a man can be seen when they are given power.

10/15/13 10:41:09 PM#56
Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by Deerhunter71
Originally posted by MindTrigger

Had they added more sandbox type features instead of being pure PvP/Conquest, I would have stuck around and paid a sub.  The game has promise as something more than it currently is.  The model failed before, and it's failing now.  It simply does not have broad enough appeal in its design to hold many subscribers.  

This if there was more MMO "fluff" and other things to do this would be huge I think.  But they still only have basically an open MMO world for arena-pvp.  They must put in a lot of other fluff or there is no hope of broader appeal.

People often ask for more "fluff"..

They have city building, crafting, ship building, pirating, treasure hunting, dungeons, and the markets...

What more "fluff" can you suggest? Be specific please.

The thing with all of that is it has no purpose aside from fueling the pvp, which in DFUW is not as good as it was in its predecessor.  They built a strong even though barbaric at times community with Darkfall 1.0, but they changed what gave DF 1 appeal which was no limitations, no classes do what you want and now its the oppiste tons of limitations and classes.  The pvp in the first DF was better, the world was larger, there were more player cities and hamlets and housing, items had value etc etc.

Alot of the content  from DF1 was added in after its release but it was a better game overall.

DFUW on so many levels is just boring.

  stux

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 469

10/15/13 11:28:43 PM#57

What did Claus say?

He also said:
1) He was a member of Kill Cult throughout DF1
2) He's friends with Obs Lod and has played a lot of different games with him
3) That he's had no involvement in DFUW at all (even playing it) thus far
4) That the game needs to cater more to new players that aren't as hardcore pvp as most of the current player base

-Krush

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?381525-What-did-claus-say/page2&p=6192433#post6192433

 

I highlighted two interesting things.

 

1) He admitted playing DF1.  He was even in clan.  Its not like its bad enough the GM do it but so do the Devs.  Joining a clan, making friends, playing favorites its the usual outcome.  The GM's did it for sure.  I have heard the dev's played but never seen one openly admit it.  

 

If they want to play fine they should have their own clan were everyone knows who they are and can judge how it precedes openly not hiding in some various clan.  The GM and Devs should all be in said clan and everyone should know who they are are its just doesn't seem honest and can lead to favorites being played imo.

 

4) His point is extremely valid but the bulk of the long term followers will not accept that.  They will basically tell anyone with that mentality Darkfall is not for them and blame all of DFUW's problem on that group.  

This is a big problem in the community.  They want more players but only want new ones that fit a mold that is like themselves but there are simply not enough OF THEM to keep the game going and Claus has basically said as much in this statement.

 

There is a good review of this game in this thread from the perspective of a newer player (PWN_FACE) that would like to get into the game but couldn't.  Its sounded like he just felt like cannon fodder due to lack of time to grind gear, farm prowess, lack of twitch skill combined with good Hardware / software setup, just generally being an average player and he sounded overwhelmed and it turned out more stressful then it was worth for him.  There are many people like that.  They just bleed out from the bottom 1/3 (pvp skill) or so of the player base.  Then the ones that were in the middle are now the new bottom 1/3 to eventually follow.

 

In DFUW the skill bar was lower and the vets cried about it even though it was skill pretty easy to win the majority of the time verse newer players. The last patched raised it some and I can't see it working out well for the newer players.  I really don't know how you can have a high skill bar in a game of this nature and expect the keep the people who aren't that skilled.

 

That is one of the many problems hurting the game since it start (going back to DF1).

 

  aRtFuLThinG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/30/09
Posts: 1004

10/16/13 12:02:33 AM#58
Originally posted by Holophonist

I'm sorry but if you quit this game because of people hacking, you're making excuses. Most of the top players have released pvp videos where you can clearly see that they're better than the vast majority of players. It's possible they also hack when they're not recording, but it seems more likely that people are just complaining, like they always do.

 

It happens in every game. Watch starcraft 2 streams and you'll see how often these prominent, well known players are accusing other people have stream cheating, wall hacking, etc. But then somebody in their chat will point out that the accused is actually streaming himself, and you can very clearly see that he is not cheating.

 

People will ALWAYS make excuses for why they lose.

I do believe whoever posts you were referring to the guy has ALREADY mentioned that he is an average player and NOT aiming to be a good player.

 

He point was there was nothing else to do in game if you an elite or striving to be, and that there MIGHT be cheaters.

 

He wasn't making excuses (in fact he admitted that he ain't good enough in this game).

 

However, he's point is right - a game shouldn't be only fun when you are really good at it, especially the fact that it is supposed to be a sandbox mmo.

  User Deleted
10/16/13 12:26:14 AM#59
Originally posted by Lustmord
Originally posted by Deerhunter71
Originally posted by MindTrigger

Had they added more sandbox type features instead of being pure PvP/Conquest, I would have stuck around and paid a sub.  The game has promise as something more than it currently is.  The model failed before, and it's failing now.  It simply does not have broad enough appeal in its design to hold many subscribers.  

This if there was more MMO "fluff" and other things to do this would be huge I think.  But they still only have basically an open MMO world for arena-pvp.  They must put in a lot of other fluff or there is no hope of broader appeal.

People often ask for more "fluff"..

They have city building, crafting, ship building, pirating, treasure hunting, dungeons, and the markets...

What more "fluff" can you suggest? Be specific please.

Obviously it isn't enough or poorly implemented, if DFUW is going under according to Claus.

How's AV going to boost the player base by 75%?  Reducing the price and Steam didn't do it.

  gamekid2k

Novice Member

Joined: 6/24/12
Posts: 363

10/16/13 10:23:35 AM#60
A cult figure can energies the gaming community and make it grow. I hope AV makes good use of Claus.

Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

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