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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I desire a beautiful, intricate world that naturally encourages in me a desire to socialize.

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163 posts found
  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

10/16/13 3:52:15 PM#101
Originally posted by Vunak23


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Vunak23 People enjoy playing solo because they don't like socializing.
Wrong.
Right.

I'm a solo player, so I feel justified in speaking with confidence on this issue.

( now, if you hadn't suggested punting solo MMOers to single player games, I would have approached this differently, acknowledging that there is an introvert/extravert different in what "socializing" probably means to different people and that what I consider socializing might not match what you consider the minimum amount of interaction to qualify as socializing... but you didn't exactly leave much room to discuss the topic, so I've been responding to you with the same level of direct judgement that you appear to be applying to others ... just in case you're wondering at the tone of my replies )

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

10/16/13 3:58:41 PM#102
Originally posted by Vunak23
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Vunak23

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by JimmyYO LOTRO? GW2? SWTOR? You guys must be joking. There hasn't been a game that encourages you to socialize since EQ Classic/UO/DAoC/FFXI.
Every MMO has a chat room, and guild functions. If players don't want to socialize, and only want to play the games, it is not the problem of the game.  
It is when socialization is counter-productive to progress in the game. 
That only shows that players value progress over socialization. Not only it is not a problem, it is something devs should design for. Think of it .. if players like to progress, more than socialization in a game, how should i design a game? It does not take a genius to figure out that put more progress into the game, and make socialization optional.  
Except the whole solo to group MMO successes. Group based or social MMO's have shown that they are more successful and stable than the Solo style MMO's. WoW being an outlier to the trend, and even they are hemorrhaging subs like nobodies business. 

 

 


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Vunak23 People enjoy playing solo because they don't like socializing.
Wrong.
 

 

Right.

 I don't think they have at all.

I think the only thing that the last 15-20 years of MMO's have shown is that a good game will have 50-500k subs/players.  Old games took several years to get that and stabilzed.  New games got 4x times that number, lost them, then stabilized.

But they all ended up at the same place.  Group or Solo did not affect that 50-500k stability point.

Having a certain sub number doesn't dictate if you were successful or not. How much you put into the game and your return does. Most games from earlier days didn't cost nearly as much to make than say SWTOR. So the Cost : Profit is way off for the newer MMO's and are dieing out. Look at RIFT it is merging servers yet again. TSW with Funcom coming right out and saying it didn't do as well as they expected or hoped. Age of Conan falling flat on its face. Warhammer shutting down. 

 Once again not really.

You said successfull and stable.  I've shown they weren't more stable.

Your right they didn't cost as much, but they did not bring in as much either.  Newer MMO's after things stabilized have been very successfull with millions of people buyign the game, paying off their debt, then realigning their cost goals to reflect a market of50-500k subs instead of the million they are hoping for. 

Yes there have been ones that did not manage the switch well, funcom is oneof them.  That is nothing new, there will always be companies that have trouble (shadowbane?).  However by and large many are making gobs of money.  Profit is way up for many/most mmo's and they are a far far far cry from dieing out.  swtor still 500k subs and 2 million f2p, eq2, strong, wow very strong, Rift made enough to finance another game and several expansions and by all reports the f2p has caused a good surge.

Games shutting down is not a new thing.  Shadowbane, ac2 (for many years), Rubies of Eventide.  With more and more games, there will be more and more failures.... and success. 

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 4:01:45 PM#103
Originally posted by maplestone
Originally posted by Vunak23


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Vunak23 People enjoy playing solo because they don't like socializing.
Wrong.
Right.

I'm a solo player, so I feel justified in speaking with confidence on this issue.

( now, if you hadn't suggested punting solo MMOers to single player games, I would have approached this differently, acknowledging that there is an introvert/extravert different in what "socializing" probably means to different people and that what I consider socializing might not match what you consider the minimum amount of interaction to qualify as socializing... but you didn't exactly leave much room to discuss the topic, so I've been responding to you with the same level of direct judgement that you appear to be applying to others ... just in case you're wondering at the tone of my replies )

I've only been responding in extremes because that is the way other people are describing it. Its not my personal opinion that soloing shouldn't exist in an MMO at all, some of the most fun I have had was playing my Beast Master in FFXI which in and of itself was a solo/duo oriented aspect of the game. I just feel it needs to be done differently so it doesn't completely destroy grouping or over perform grouping to the point that it makes grouping counter-productive. Which is currently how its being designed. 

Its much easier/faster to jump into a game and run a few quests than it is to setup shop with a few players and going to town on some more dramatic content. It should be easier to solo. It should be more productive to group. They both should have there pros and cons. Unfortunately as it stands now the solo aspect is completely dominating because its the only aspect getting any real development time or mechanics are skewed in its favor. 

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

10/16/13 4:26:27 PM#104
Originally posted by Vunak23

Unfortunately as it stands now the solo aspect is completely dominating because its the only aspect getting any real development time or mechanics are skewed in its favor. 

I can sympathize with this, although I wonder if the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence.  I tend to be very aware of the lore, resources or collectables that are hidden away within a playstyle I don't enjoy.

  Vunak23

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

10/16/13 4:29:38 PM#105
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Vunak23
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
Originally posted by Vunak23

 


Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Vunak23

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by JimmyYO LOTRO? GW2? SWTOR? You guys must be joking. There hasn't been a game that encourages you to socialize since EQ Classic/UO/DAoC/FFXI.
Every MMO has a chat room, and guild functions. If players don't want to socialize, and only want to play the games, it is not the problem of the game.  
It is when socialization is counter-productive to progress in the game. 
That only shows that players value progress over socialization. Not only it is not a problem, it is something devs should design for. Think of it .. if players like to progress, more than socialization in a game, how should i design a game? It does not take a genius to figure out that put more progress into the game, and make socialization optional.  
Except the whole solo to group MMO successes. Group based or social MMO's have shown that they are more successful and stable than the Solo style MMO's. WoW being an outlier to the trend, and even they are hemorrhaging subs like nobodies business. 

 

 


Originally posted by maplestone

Originally posted by Vunak23 People enjoy playing solo because they don't like socializing.
Wrong.
 

 

Right.

 I don't think they have at all.

I think the only thing that the last 15-20 years of MMO's have shown is that a good game will have 50-500k subs/players.  Old games took several years to get that and stabilzed.  New games got 4x times that number, lost them, then stabilized.

But they all ended up at the same place.  Group or Solo did not affect that 50-500k stability point.

Having a certain sub number doesn't dictate if you were successful or not. How much you put into the game and your return does. Most games from earlier days didn't cost nearly as much to make than say SWTOR. So the Cost : Profit is way off for the newer MMO's and are dieing out. Look at RIFT it is merging servers yet again. TSW with Funcom coming right out and saying it didn't do as well as they expected or hoped. Age of Conan falling flat on its face. Warhammer shutting down. 

 Once again not really.

You said successfull and stable.  I've shown they weren't more stable.

Your right they didn't cost as much, but they did not bring in as much either.  Newer MMO's after things stabilized have been very successfull with millions of people buyign the game, paying off their debt, then realigning their cost goals to reflect a market of50-500k subs instead of the million they are hoping for. 

Yes there have been ones that did not manage the switch well, funcom is oneof them.  That is nothing new, there will always be companies that have trouble (shadowbane?).  However by and large many are making gobs of money.  Profit is way up for many/most mmo's and they are a far far far cry from dieing out.  swtor still 500k subs and 2 million f2p, eq2, strong, wow very strong, Rift made enough to finance another game and several expansions and by all reports the f2p has caused a good surge.

Games shutting down is not a new thing.  Shadowbane, ac2 (for many years), Rubies of Eventide.  With more and more games, there will be more and more failures.... and success. 

I implore you to take a look at stability. The older games have definitely been more stable in their endeavors. They generally started slow and slowly rose to what they are today. Where as the newer MMO's have seen way more dramatic increases/decreases. There is a large surge of players then they drop off the deepend have to restructure to self sustain. Thats not stable that is the opposite of  stable. 

SWTOR has less than 500k subs and 2 million accounts that were created. Whether they are actively playing is another subject or even unique accounts. EQ2 is an older game. Rift did well its first year then was subject to people unsubbing in dramatic fashion. WoW isn't doing very well, unless going from 12million down to 7.5million and still falling is doing well. Not to mention the fiasco with Vivendi and them cleaning them out. 

Asherons Call and Shadow Bane/RoE were buggy games or indie. They all had a decent following but lost it due to mismanagement or bugs being too great to push through. Same thing happened to Mortal Online and Darkfall. Good in concept, but not in actual execution since the programming teams for both games were pretty terrible.  

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

10/16/13 5:18:10 PM#106

Stablity - relatively unchanged.

Yes there was a massive influx then a drop.  However most of the games have had stable populations for years now.  Rift has had a bit of a change with the f2p true, and swtor has only been f2p for about a year now so too soon to tell, however both again have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and or millions of players.  And many many many others are again relatively stable for years, after they realigned their model.

I fully expect most of these games to still be here a decade from now.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19793

10/16/13 5:35:43 PM#107
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Stablity - relatively unchanged.

Yes there was a massive influx then a drop.  However most of the games have had stable populations for years now.  Rift has had a bit of a change with the f2p true, and swtor has only been f2p for about a year now so too soon to tell, however both again have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and or millions of players.  And many many many others are again relatively stable for years, after they realigned their model.

I fully expect most of these games to still be here a decade from now.

How long is STO running by now? How about DDO?

 

  Beatnik59

Elite Member

Joined: 11/23/05
Posts: 2233

"Playing things I shouldn''t be playing since 1977."

10/16/13 5:42:52 PM#108
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Stablity - relatively unchanged.

Yes there was a massive influx then a drop.  However most of the games have had stable populations for years now.  Rift has had a bit of a change with the f2p true, and swtor has only been f2p for about a year now so too soon to tell, however both again have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and or millions of players.  And many many many others are again relatively stable for years, after they realigned their model.

I fully expect most of these games to still be here a decade from now.

I wish I could share your optimism, but I fear that the days of the "graceful slowdown" are over.  Everything I've seen over the last year or so (the CoH shutdown, the Zynga shutdowns, WAR) tells me that MMO publishers will find it easier these days to "cut and run" as soon as a game's peak has passed.

__________________________
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  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19793

10/16/13 5:50:39 PM#109
Originally posted by Beatnik59
 

I wish I could share your optimism, but I fear that the days of the "graceful slowdown" are over.  Everything I've seen over the last year or so (the CoH shutdown, the Zynga shutdowns, WAR) tells me that MMO publishers will find it easier these days to "cut and run" as soon as a game's peak has passed.

CoH has been running for years. So does WAR.

And there are plenty of other games. It is not like the total number of MMOs is declining.

 

  VengeSunsoar

Elite Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4824

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

10/16/13 5:59:30 PM#110
Originally posted by Beatnik59
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Stablity - relatively unchanged.

Yes there was a massive influx then a drop.  However most of the games have had stable populations for years now.  Rift has had a bit of a change with the f2p true, and swtor has only been f2p for about a year now so too soon to tell, however both again have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and or millions of players.  And many many many others are again relatively stable for years, after they realigned their model.

I fully expect most of these games to still be here a decade from now.

I wish I could share your optimism, but I fear that the days of the "graceful slowdown" are over.  Everything I've seen over the last year or so (the CoH shutdown, the Zynga shutdowns, WAR) tells me that MMO publishers will find it easier these days to "cut and run" as soon as a game's peak has passed.

 I'm sure there will be more. 

And while CoH still bugs me because I do believe the population was stable and it was in the black, I can't say I would have made a different decision if I was in charge.

Option A - decent money, stable.  Option B - use resources to generate potentially more profit. (whatever that happens to be)...

Sometimes we have to take the chance and cut the decent to try for the exceptional. 

So while I don't like it, can't say I don't understand.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  jacker1991

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/17/11
Posts: 131

10/16/13 6:03:19 PM#111
Should check out World of Darkness!
  SavageHorizon

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/14/13
Posts: 1565

10/16/13 6:08:29 PM#112
Originally posted by Wizardry
Originally posted by flizzer

For me this is GW2.  I have a friend who is a real life chef. He loves discovering and making all the possible recipes in the game.  One night a week he takes over a restaurant and hires people as servers and cooks for people.  It is an awesome roleplaying experience for people. 

I spend  lots of time in World versus World battles.  This is where your server is fighting two other servers.  I'm usually chatting so much I dont see that guy behind me jumping on me and clubbing me in the back.  Check out Lion's Arch or any of the other major cities and you will see people running around.  I spend more time socializing in this game maybe than any other I have played.

FFXI was doing this before the other games,NOTHING was hand holding,you had to literally discover everything.Really sad that FFXI did it for years,never got recognition for it's design,now a player is saying GW2 is great for doing it.FFXI you had no recipe books,you had to trial and error to find out a recipe and there are thousands of them.More importantly than just the no hand holding is the recipes are useful,food in ffxi is probably more useful than in most other games.

And EQ was doing it before FFXI, that's not saying that FFXI wasn't a great mmo because it was. As for the OP wanting social, go play Wurm Online.

http://wurmonline.com/about-the-game/

 

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  jayarte

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/09
Posts: 450

10/17/13 9:57:46 AM#113
Originally posted by Nierro
I've been yearning for something similar to the OP recently, to the point where I've considered trying to find interesting people who'd start new characters with me in a given MMO, log on at a specific time each day, and level- slowly and deliberately with appreciation for aesthetics and conversation prioritized above the progress of their characters.

 

 


 


I bet a lot of people feel that way; me included. Wonder if there is an mmo web site or forum dedicated to players like this.

You could use this website to set-up this kind of project.  In fact, I was part of a group of players who started Vanguard together some time ago with goal in mind.  That game didn't work for me, and I think the group fell apart eventually, but I had already left, so maybe someone else can update you.

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5248

10/18/13 2:23:33 AM#114

Industry insiders have questioned the sustainability of the current F2P model of pumping them out, a huge population at launch then a tiny one a year later.

Overall all we have a MMO market which is far more oversaturated than it was years ago. This has nothing to do with what financial model is used, there are just not enough players to sustain a decent population in all these MMOs.

The number of P2P MMOs is falling, I think only one this year and we are in October now. The quality of AAA is now questionable, something like EQNext is being treated like it was a AAA game but it only has a F2P budget. If the future of AAA is F2P then the concept of a big budget MMO is dead.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2739

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

10/18/13 2:34:42 AM#115
Originally posted by Consuetudo

Sociality is what is missing to me in MMORPGs. It is not that I want a game to force me to be social, but I want a game that provides an environment that gives me the intrinsic desire to want to be social within them. I should be so taken away by the feeling being in a certain town or village provides me with that, in this state of awe, I would want to wander the streets as one of its citizens, and see groups of players doing things in that city that are completely within the role-playing the city encourages. And yet this role-playing should not be a mindset forcefully adopted by the players, but it should be suggested, once again, by the game environment itself, and the player would naturally desire to role-play, in such a way that they perhaps won't even be aware of what they are doing. 

And I have encountered this in games. The Blood Elf city in WoW evoked this, as did that first entrance into Stormwind, or Ironforge. 

Though all of this boils down to the constant argument I hear from here: we are wanting worlds, not just games. 

So it's true then: add my vote to the pot. I want a social world that is full of beauty and intricasy. Combat isn't even necessary to me.

I have always been of the opinion that social functions is a waste of space.  To me this is the purview of Guilds, Clans and other tight knit structures.  Of which all MMO's feature.  I reckon it to real life, I don't interact with 99% of the people I meet in real life so why would I need to In a game.  Often times people are at odds with other and will only socialize with like minded individuals, which is what Guilds are for.

 

But then again my first MMO was Asheron's Call in 1999 and large interaction was not part of it like it was in say an Everquest...but that is why I chose AC over EQ in the first place.  Relying on others is a crutch for me and always will be.  I would like to add Combat will always be the main reason why I play MMO's.  Encounters and acquiring items is the lifeblood of a solid RPG and always has been.  Remove good combat and I am most assuredly to get bored rather quickly. 

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2739

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

10/18/13 2:45:16 AM#116
Originally posted by VastoHorde
You will have to go back to the old school mmos. MMOs released since 2003 are 99% solo quest games so how is that going to equal a social experience?  Any mmo where you go around doing fed ex quest to level up is not a social mmo.

Asheron's Call was a very solo game and remains so to this day and is considered by many to be one of the finest MMO's ever created.  Social interaction and/or forced grouping has absolutely zero outcome on a games social experience.  However I think your onto something with the whole Fed-Ex style quick leveling.  And I've said for years MMO's need to return to hard, epic, and more importantly LONG quests.  Something that takes at least an hour to finish.  Follow up with long progressions and instead of reaching level cap within a few weeks make them take a minimum of 3-4 months (I'd like to see years TBH but I won't push my luck).  Harsh penalties for failure also play a key role in longevity and a more sociable experience.  Some of my fondest memories were forming groups to rescue someone's corpse at the bottom of a dungeon in AC.  These are the types of social interactions that is missing from the modern MMO.  Instead of forcing people to group, you instead implement social systems like corpse runs, and ep0ic quests to encourage players to team up.  All while keeping the majority of the game open to the solo friendly player.

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Boneserino

Elite Member

Joined: 12/08/07
Posts: 794

10/18/13 3:17:21 AM#117
Originally posted by LizardEgypt
Originally posted by Consuetudo

Now people are reducing the concept to ridiculousness. 

I couldn't really care less about socializing, and I am in no need to do it. 

But insofar as I am playing an MMORPG, games being my hobby, the reason why my interest in these games has decayed is because I am no longer encountering a beautiful, intricate world that naturally encourages in me a desire to socialize. And by this I mean nothing more than that my immersion into my character and the given MMO I am playing should be such as to reduce my cognizance of actual reality, and instead make me feel I am a citizen of the game's world. The game's world should be outfitted, it should provide such plethorous things that the sheer amount of contentual bombardment I am experiencing should be overwhelming--and this all falls under the banner of intricacy. The inintricate world is one that is incredibly narrow in its focus, funneling the player through some gear-grinding combat scenario tiered via a series of levels and detached zones, repetitive quests and the like, all the while failing to deliver the crucial feeling that I am part of this world.

And I'm really not suggesting anything novel, really not anything spectacular: I'm really just venting. But I firmly believe that if MMOs liberated themselves from a combat focus, which they have very much become reduced into, and they instead opened their focus to deliver a huge intricate and multifaceted world--at this point we would find games that have huge replayability, huge immersion value, and they would also provide sociality, which is my loaded term that effectually means the successful creation of a living world that the players subconsciously find themselves roleplaying within. 

What I am not asking for includes: 

  • A roleplaying server where people speak in hackneyed "old English" 
  • A chat room 
  • Forced grouping 
  • The inability to solo 
  • An environment which discourages grouping 
--which things are somehow being taken from my words. 
 
All I ask for is a world, spectacular enough to make me subconsciously absorbed and to want to be one of its citizens. 
 
And for what? 
 
Fun escapism. For to play the fictional character in the awesome fictional world is a fun way to pass the time. Combat isn't even necessary to me.

What you're saying now is that you want the exact same thing that the majority of people on this forum want, but didn't know quite how to say it.

I quite agree with you that I think MMO's have dfinitely wandered too far down the combat path.   Fight, level up, get better gear and repeat.  While I do admit I enjoy this, when it becomes really the only source of enjoyment in a game then you have problems.   Combat should be a choice in  MMO's, not a requirement IMO.

 

Having said that, I just wanted to reply to your subconscious statement.   I think expecting a game to somehow absorb you through your subconscious is asking a bit much.  This is not the holodeck of the Enterprise here.  The reason you do not connect to games is the same reason many people here do not.  Right away, as soon as you start a new game, you are comparing it to other games you have played.    Hmm the quests are the same fetch quests.  Hmm the combat is not as good as that last MMO I played.  I want more character customization.   Pretty soon you have talked yourself out of any immersion whatsoever.  

 

These are games.    They are not  alternate realities.   Immersion requires a healthy dose of imagination. There is no free lunch here.   And I find most gamers these days are simply staring at the nuts and bolts of a said game.    You have to find how to make the game fun for you,  not expect the game to do it all for you.   If one little thing that annoys you is enough to make you quit a game, as I have seen many people state on these forums, then I have to wonder how any game is going to measure up to this magical subconscious immersion factor that so many of you seem to think is possible.   I don't think it is.   I make my own immersion, the game just helps.   And some do it better than others.

 

So my advice is look at yourself and why you play games.  And also how you play games.   Games require a liitle faith and some effort on your part too.    Expecting the game to do it all, is unrealistic.

FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19793

10/18/13 2:16:24 PM#118
Originally posted by Scot

Industry insiders have questioned the sustainability of the current F2P model of pumping them out, a huge population at launch then a tiny one a year later.

Overall all we have a MMO market which is far more oversaturated than it was years ago. This has nothing to do with what financial model is used, there are just not enough players to sustain a decent population in all these MMOs.

The number of P2P MMOs is falling, I think only one this year and we are in October now. The quality of AAA is now questionable, something like EQNext is being treated like it was a AAA game but it only has a F2P budget. If the future of AAA is F2P then the concept of a big budget MMO is dead.

Oversaturation and some failure is good for the consumer.

That means there are lots of choices, and only the strong product will survive. I say bring it on.

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5248

10/19/13 3:16:56 AM#119
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot

Industry insiders have questioned the sustainability of the current F2P model of pumping them out, a huge population at launch then a tiny one a year later.

Overall all we have a MMO market which is far more oversaturated than it was years ago. This has nothing to do with what financial model is used, there are just not enough players to sustain a decent population in all these MMOs.

The number of P2P MMOs is falling, I think only one this year and we are in October now. The quality of AAA is now questionable, something like EQNext is being treated like it was a AAA game but it only has a F2P budget. If the future of AAA is F2P then the concept of a big budget MMO is dead.

Oversaturation and some failure is good for the consumer.

That means there are lots of choices, and only the strong product will survive. I say bring it on.

 

Using your logic we should all be playing WoW because it has survived and done very well. Oversaturation does not serve MMO's or gaming well. Diversity of product is being sacrificed in a market that punishes originality and gives new entrants a huge hurdle to climb.

 

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2391

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

10/19/13 3:29:03 AM#120
Originally posted by Consuetudo

Sociality is what is missing to me in MMORPGs. It is not that I want a game to force me to be social, but I want a game that provides an environment that gives me the intrinsic desire to want to be social within them. I should be so taken away by the feeling being in a certain town or village provides me with that, in this state of awe, I would want to wander the streets as one of its citizens, and see groups of players doing things in that city that are completely within the role-playing the city encourages. And yet this role-playing should not be a mindset forcefully adopted by the players, but it should be suggested, once again, by the game environment itself, and the player would naturally desire to role-play, in such a way that they perhaps won't even be aware of what they are doing. 

And I have encountered this in games. The Blood Elf city in WoW evoked this, as did that first entrance into Stormwind, or Ironforge. 

Though all of this boils down to the constant argument I hear from here: we are wanting worlds, not just games. 

So it's true then: add my vote to the pot. I want a social world that is full of beauty and intricasy. Combat isn't even necessary to me.

Hit me up when you are done with all that coding. Or you could write it all down on paper, put it under your pillow and get  a shiney quarter.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

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