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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » I desire a beautiful, intricate world that naturally encourages in me a desire to socialize.

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163 posts found
  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/13/13 2:00:24 PM#41
It is hard to fill a cup that is already full - Moat, Avatar, James Cameron (2009).

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  Drakephire

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/02/13
Posts: 405

10/13/13 2:10:00 PM#42
Originally posted by Kyarra

Star Wars Galaxies was the best game for socializing. You had to rely on others for buffs, getting your weapons sliced etc. You also had 10 minute shuttle waits which led to a lot of talking and complaining about the shuttle waits lol. 

Ah, the shuttle waits. I just went afk and got a sammich or alt-tabbed out.

  Nierro

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Joined: 6/23/05
Posts: 1712

Time flies like an arrow;
Fruit flies like a banana.

10/13/13 2:30:40 PM#43

I've been yearning for something similar to the OP recently, to the point where I've considered trying to find interesting people who'd start new characters with me in a given MMO, log on at a specific time each day, and level- slowly and deliberately with appreciation for aesthetics and conversation prioritized above the progress of their characters.

There is something to be said for anonymous conversation, detatched  from the physical presence of a person. In my experience it allows me to be more honest in how I express myself, more open in the things I'm willing to share, and less inhibited in what I say. I think this is natural. And MMOs have the potential to be the ideal places for these kinds of conversations to take place because the avatar can be an indirect expression of the self, in a cohesive "world" in which  combat or exploration also adds to the feeling of interaction with other players.

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

10/13/13 2:36:49 PM#44
Originally posted by Drakephire
Originally posted by Kyarra

Star Wars Galaxies was the best game for socializing. You had to rely on others for buffs, getting your weapons sliced etc. You also had 10 minute shuttle waits which led to a lot of talking and complaining about the shuttle waits lol. 

Ah, the shuttle waits. I just went afk and got a sammich or alt-tabbed out.

Right. People need downtime to do real life stuff all the time. All swg did was understand that. It was also better because in group play, everyone took care of their business at one time, rather than people go afk at random. I don't ever remember waiting in queue for anything in swg.

It's not like the game's content made you travel at all. You could stay on one planet and do just as well. The shuttle wait didn't hurt anything, just an easy target for onlookers. Level restrictions? Or shuttle wait?

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Consuetudo

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/12
Posts: 130

 
OP  10/13/13 5:59:09 PM#45

 

And so apparently it is necessary to contextually define socialization. 

The socialization I am referring to, does not necessarily have to be a group dynamic--but it can be. What I am more rather referring to is a 'sociality' in which players are given a fervor to be their characters, and treat the world around them as if it is a living thing. No longer are they in a dead mesh of mechanics and code, but that mesh of mechanics and code has somehow coalesced together to make something not only visually, but sensationally stunning, to such an extent that, like a beautiful painting, you are immersed into the created world. Yet just like the painting's being nothing more than cleverly blended brushstrokes and colors, we are still completely absorbed into that world. The game should be the same way with its environment--the excellent game anyway. The quaint sounds, swirling images and fuzziness that a small child appreciates, and which we as adults seemingly fail to appreciate, all in favor of some rational or structured goal to be working towards... 

We fail to see the forest for the trees, as they say. We don't really appreciate the beauty of what is there, and are instead goal oriented. We want to get to the highest level, have the best gear, and be the best capitalist there is. 

I really don't care about that stuff. To me, the best part of World of Warcraft was leveling and experiencing those zones for the first time. I actually loved being in them, and keeping in mind some semblance of the history of the place as it was conveyed in the previous games, and even the books. I felt immersed

 

What does this have to do with socialization? 

Well, the theory is that when you are immersed in the world, you will then be your character; and this contrasts with roleplaying, in my mind anyway, because in that situation you act like your character, and acting is different than being. I want a world that causes me to be my character, in such a way that there is no conscious acting involved. The socialization that follows thence would be that between citizens of a certain world, or members of certain factions and races etc. I would look at another player and not see someone sitting behind a screen in Russia, but a Tumerok, literally of that race of people, standing there in front of me. 

That's the level of immersion I've always craved in a game, which I have always subconsciously put forward when playing a game, and which I'm only now realizing and expressing. 

 

So the difference I'm conveying is that "sociality" is not referring to forcing people to use some grouping mechanism, but it is a natural desire that flows outward from the immersed player who has been totally absorbed into the world presented by the excellent game. 

 

 

Right now, one of the most immersive worlds out there that I have experienced is the Brytenwalda mod for Mount and Blade. The world, characters, environment etc is such as to make me be my character. It's just unfortunate it's not an MMO. There seems to be some failure to successfully convey the excellent single-player RPG world to the MMO environment.  

  FinalFikus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/01/13
Posts: 910

"We're up all night to get lucky"

10/13/13 6:23:33 PM#46
Originally posted by Consuetudo

 

And so apparently it is necessary to contextually define socialization. 

The socialization I am referring to, does not necessarily have to be a group dynamic--but it can be. What I am more rather referring to is a 'sociality' in which players are given a fervor to be their characters, and treat the world around them as if it is a living thing. No longer are they in a dead mesh of mechanics and code, but that mesh of mechanics and code has somehow coalesced together to make something not only visually, but sensationally stunning, to such an extent that, like a beautiful painting, you are immersed into the created world. Yet just like the painting's being nothing more than cleverly blended brushstrokes and colors, we are still completely absorbed into that world. The game should be the same way with its environment--the excellent game anyway. The quaint sounds, swirling images and fuzziness that a small child appreciates, and which we as adults seemingly fail to appreciate, all in favor of some rational or structured goal to be working towards... 

We fail to see the forest for the trees, as they say. We don't really appreciate the beauty of what is there, and are instead goal oriented. We want to get to the highest level, have the best gear, and be the best capitalist there is. 

I really don't care about that stuff. To me, the best part of World of Warcraft was leveling and experiencing those zones for the first time. I actually loved being in them, and keeping in mind some semblance of the history of the place as it was conveyed in the previous games, and even the books. I felt immersed

 

What does this have to do with socialization? 

Well, the theory is that when you are immersed in the world, you will then be your character; and this contrasts with roleplaying, in my mind anyway, because in that situation you act like your character, and acting is different than being. I want a world that causes me to be my character, in such a way that there is no conscious acting involved. The socialization that follows thence would be that between citizens of a certain world, or members of certain factions and races etc. I would look at another player and not see someone sitting behind a screen in Russia, but a Tumerok, literally of that race of people, standing there in front of me. 

That's the level of immersion I've always craved in a game, which I have always subconsciously put forward when playing a game, and which I'm only now realizing and expressing. 

 

So the difference I'm conveying is that "sociality" is not referring to forcing people to use some grouping mechanism, but it is a natural desire that flows outward from the immersed player who has been totally absorbed into the world presented by the excellent game. 

 

 

Right now, one of the most immersive worlds out there that I have experienced is the Brytenwalda mod for Mount and Blade. The world, characters, environment etc is such as to make me be my character. It's just unfortunate it's not an MMO. There seems to be some failure to successfully convey the excellent single-player RPG world to the MMO environment.  

We understand exactly what you mean. But regardless of how you phrase it, the responses will always be the typical extremes of forced interaction. Developer responses are just as generic.

 

 

"If the Damned gave you a roadmap, then you'd know just where to go"

  Sal1

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 178

10/13/13 6:48:50 PM#47
Maybe try Second Life? There are role playing area's within that virtual world.
  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5351

10/14/13 2:58:03 AM#48

OP is talking about immersion as much as chewing the cud with other peeps then. I see what you are getting at, a game which encourages you to do more than just level up. That is always going to depend on the other people playing, the baulk of which are trying to run past you to reach max level. So it goes back to what I said about guilds, find a group that wants to do whatever it is you want to in a MMO.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

10/14/13 12:57:44 PM#49
Originally posted by Consuetudo

Right now, one of the most immersive worlds out there that I have experienced is the Brytenwalda mod for Mount and Blade. The world, characters, environment etc is such as to make me be my character. It's just unfortunate it's not an MMO. There seems to be some failure to successfully convey the excellent single-player RPG world to the MMO environment.  

If so, just stay with the SP RPG world. There is no reason why everything needs to convey to MMOs.

 

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

10/14/13 4:44:47 PM#50
Originally posted by Consuetudo
So it's true then: add my vote to the pot. I want a social world that is full of beauty and intricasy. Combat isn't even necessary to me.

Very enjoyable post.

Due to various personality quirks, I'm one of the hardest players you'll ever find to make sociable.  It's not impossible, but it doesn't take much of a bad experience with other people to spook me.  Worlds are what draw me into MMOs.  Conflict with other players is the fastest way to drive me away from them.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

10/14/13 7:00:38 PM#51


Originally posted by Wizardry
Well OP this is not life so yes a game does need to force social gaming,otherwise it has been PROVEN that players will not socialize if they can solo...

This.

For a conversation to take place, two people must feel the desire to stop what they are doing and converse. If there is technically no need to converse, the odds of finding two strangers willing to do so are quite low. And every time you get burned by initiating an unreciprocated dialogue, you lower those odds even more



Originally posted by Nierro
I've been yearning for something similar to the OP recently, to the point where I've considered trying to find interesting people who'd start new characters with me in a given MMO, log on at a specific time each day, and level- slowly and deliberately with appreciation for aesthetics and conversation prioritized above the progress of their characters.



I bet a lot of people feel that way; me included. Wonder if there is an mmo web site or forum dedicated to players like this.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/14/13 7:07:28 PM#52
Originally posted by Arclan

 


Originally posted by Wizardry
Well OP this is not life so yes a game does need to force social gaming,otherwise it has been PROVEN that players will not socialize if they can solo...

 

This.

For a conversation to take place, two people must feel the desire to stop what they are doing and converse. If there is technically no need to converse, the odds of finding two strangers willing to do so are quite low. And every time you get burned by initiating an unreciprocated dialogue, you lower those odds even more

That's why forced grouping as it was in some "old school" MMOs was never encouraging socialization. People use to think they are some kind of "brothers" because they killed some dragon and stole his virtual trinkets together, but at the end, it means nothing.

Real socialization, forging friendships, is done outside of the forced grouping part of MMOs.

And "it has been PROVEN that players will not socialize of they can solo" is a huge pile of smelly crap. Nothing has been proven except that some people are unable to make contact with other players if they aren't forced to by game mechanics. If others can do that just fine, then the problem lies in those players unable to do it, and not in the game design.

My computer is better than yours.

  Classicstar

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/02/04
Posts: 2544

10/14/13 7:20:00 PM#53


Originally posted by flizzer
For me this is GW2.  I have a friend who is a real life chef. He loves discovering and making all the possible recipes in the game.  One night a week he takes over a restaurant and hires people as servers and cooks for people.  It is an awesome roleplaying experience for people. 

I spend  lots of time in World versus World battles.  This is where your server is fighting two other servers.  I'm usually chatting so much I dont see that guy behind me jumping on me and clubbing me in the back.  Check out Lion's Arch or any of the other major cities and you will see people running around.  I spend more time socializing in this game maybe than any other I have played.


Ive quit after 5 months playing GW2 becouse it was as so many mmo's these days grind grind and grind, buy gold, cheat, epeen and endless dungeon crawling for gear treatmill at his best, not so friendly people constantly in dungeons im sick of it.
Lionarch on my server i can't remember i had ever a nice chat with anybody it was like if there all where npc's and did not know i was there hehe. Also this dumb standing in front for hours at bank or auctionhouse. Nah GW2 and so many other mmo's in last years learned me its anti social and i need to quit and go solo only rpg's much more fun then mmo's.

My experience was on Desolation euro server, maybe others where more friendly but for me it was enough to quit.

I know some RP servers that are not playing for gear or epeen but just wanne have fun but they are rare.

I play Skyrim and ive more contact with players on mod forums in past year then i had in last 12 years i play mmo's.

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  Kaledren

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/11
Posts: 154

10/14/13 7:23:27 PM#54
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
There are ways to get players to interact without forced combat grouping.  

Wondering where you see in the OP where he mentions forced combat grouping to achieve what he wants. This seems to be a popular reply of those who just want fast action games and not what the OP mentions he'd like to see.

  VoreDock

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/12
Posts: 124

10/15/13 11:51:10 AM#55

AION

 

  Ender4

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/18/08
Posts: 2097

10/15/13 12:00:13 PM#56


That's why forced grouping as it was in some "old school" MMOs was never encouraging socialization. People use to think they are some kind of "brothers" because they killed some dragon and stole his virtual trinkets together, but at the end, it means nothing.

Real socialization, forging friendships, is done outside of the forced grouping part of MMOs


There are about 10 people that I met gaming and have gamed with over the years that I still talk to on a somewhat regular basis. I'd say 7 out of 10 of those I met while camping some dungeon in EQ. The others were from PvP where we actually fought against each other but respected each other. Starting with WoW adding the dungeon finder I pretty much haven't made a friend in an MMORPG since.

I'd say the forced grouping did more for socialization than anything else. Open world PvP does as well. Any time you have to deal with conflict it increases the odds that you socialize.

  User Deleted
10/15/13 12:04:42 PM#57

I know this sounds crazy, but if you take the time to reach out to people in game, you will be met with positive responses overall.

You know whats crazy about FFXIV? You can browse the market board for bloated prices on components. Then take a minute to player search someone who can make you the same components, send them a friendly /tell, and they will usually be happy to help you out for a fraction of the cost or even free.

People love to feel needed in an mmo. Talk to people who can do things for you. Offer a trade for their services or ask them how much they want. Be polite. Next thing you know you're having a conversation. Who knows, maybe a new person to add to your friends list.

It is honestly that simple. I think some people are relying on technology for too many things. Your phone can do a lot of things now. But it still wont communicate for you.

I dunno, maybe its just the way we view socialization these days. Twitter one liners, picture of your breakfast. Everybody talking, nobody listening. This is what a lot of people relate as being social now. Of course they would expect a video game to have some sort of tools to make them social.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20226

10/15/13 1:29:34 PM#58
Originally posted by Ender4

 


That's why forced grouping as it was in some "old school" MMOs was never encouraging socialization. People use to think they are some kind of "brothers" because they killed some dragon and stole his virtual trinkets together, but at the end, it means nothing.

 

Real socialization, forging friendships, is done outside of the forced grouping part of MMOs


 

There are about 10 people that I met gaming and have gamed with over the years that I still talk to on a somewhat regular basis. I'd say 7 out of 10 of those I met while camping some dungeon in EQ. The others were from PvP where we actually fought against each other but respected each other. Starting with WoW adding the dungeon finder I pretty much haven't made a friend in an MMORPG since.

I'd say the forced grouping did more for socialization than anything else. Open world PvP does as well. Any time you have to deal with conflict it increases the odds that you socialize.

You mean "forced socailization". And yes .. force grouping did a lot of that.

And it is a bad (for me) thing. I don't play games to socialize. I am glad i am no longer forced to do so in MMOs.

 

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1443

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

10/15/13 5:33:28 PM#59


Originally posted by Classicstar
...I play Skyrim and ive more contact with players on mod forums in past year then i had in last 12 years i play mmo's.

I know; pretty sad, right? I agree with your entire post.

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Viper482

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/04/10
Posts: 377

10/15/13 7:11:45 PM#60
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Kyarra

Star Wars Galaxies was the best game for socializing. You had to rely on others for buffs, getting your weapons sliced etc. You also had 10 minute shuttle waits which led to a lot of talking and complaining about the shuttle waits lol. DAoC was awesome also because  you had to group up and I met so many people in that game. 

I never liked to role play, but as others have said LOTRO was great for that, also old school EQ2 was great for role playing and grouping up to level.

Today's games are just solo quest to level and I don't think I have really met anyone like I did in the old school games :(

10 min shuttle waits ... really? No wonder the game is closed down. If i want to wait for a shuttle, i will go to the airport.

And yes i totally agree that "today's game are just solo quest to level". Just the way i like it. I don't have to depend on others for my fun.

 

Let's see if I can say this in a way where I will not be deleted for a violation for flaming...

Here goes....hello kitty style.

Sir, while I respect your opinion I must respectfully point out my displeasure with it. It is my opinion that the attitude you display in this post, while it is your right and think you are a great person no matter our differences, hurts what MMO gaming is all about. 

Soft enough?

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