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EverQuest Next

EverQuest Next 

General Discussion  » Will SOE learn from its mistakes this time?

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58 posts found

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/06
Posts: 822

10/11/13 3:50:18 PM#21
Originally posted by flizzer
The game is called Everquest Next.  The previous games called Everquest seemed to do well.  On this site many people claim Everquest was their favorite game of all time.  I'm not sure how this is a mistake. 

How about including nothing wich made the original everquest succesfull into eqnext? EQ1,2,OA share the same world/lore with EQnext. But the games look and feel nothing alike. They might as well called it random world x next. If you ask me the title is a total sellout used purely because people know it. other then that it has little to do with everquest.


Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/10
Posts: 602

10/11/13 4:00:15 PM#22

BG music was a huge part of my EQ experience. Hopefully they get that part right.


As far as will they learn from their mistakes? NO


Why? Because they are foolish enough to think that a system of "one character plays all classes" will last.  It won't. They blew up replayability which means that all the noob zones will be ghost towns after the first four months.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/05
Posts: 94

10/11/13 4:08:27 PM#23
From what I have read tuere wont be noob zones. The progression in this game will be mostly horizontal, and tue spawns aren't going to be static camps of mobs of a certain level or power range. I think you're going to have to explore if you want to find powerful mobs t fight. I hope so at least.

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/09
Posts: 344

10/12/13 3:48:41 PM#24
Originally posted by Ender4

Whatever else EQN does it is actually trying to revolutionize the genre and that is more than almost all these terrible WOW clones have tried to do. It can fail and still be the biggest success we've seen in the past 5 years just because it moves the genre in a better directions than the crap we've seen lately.

This is true. The fact that EQN was even made is already the result of a very long and painful learning process the mmo-industry had to go through. They only learned after being punched in the face - very hard - and repeatedly. We have seen it several times: Someone has the great idea to make a game just like WoW only with minor tweaks to make it even more successful, and the end of the story is: the company the game crashes and burns, the company goes bankrupt and everyone loses his job. Just ask the former employees of Funcom and Mythic.

And even after this EA/Bioware hadn't learned anything. They thought it would work if they only blew 300 mil $ on it. As we all know this ended in them losing as much money as everyone before them combined and SW-TOR being probably the single biggest failure in the history of video games as much as the financial loss is concerned. The company only stayed afloat due to its sheer size.

So considering the learning abilities of other companies SOE is almost the overachiever of the class. At least They never got really involved in the whole WoW-clone business.


If SOE fails they fail for different reasons. Just compare the staff of Trion Worlds and SOE for a second. They look different and they talk different. For some reason everyone at Tryon always wears black and no one seems to have any hair and they tend to talk like a bunch of accountants. These people play it safe. On the contrary at SOE everyone has great hair and a permanent smirk on his face. They are showmen, they never play it safe. The problem with them is that their slogan is:  If you can't make it - fake it.


So if EQN fails it will at least fail for the right reasons. There is nothing worse then failing because you refused to take a risk. EQN could still release as a horrible mess, but unlike Rift it will at least be remembered.


Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2333

"Free to play, pay to win""

10/12/13 3:53:38 PM#25

Under delivered on Planetside 2?


Any and all changes to the game so far have been made simply because people asked for it. The roadmap and the discussions and implementations thereof are simply genius.

Still not satisfied? Still calling it "a failure"? I guess you already have your answer. No, they will never learn. Unless they do exactly what you want them to do. Because that's how you roll.

Feel like trying Planetside 2? Get a headstart with the starter kit!


Advanced Member

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 698

10/21/13 12:42:44 PM#26

PS2 wasn't that bad in terms of gameplay, but I agree the performance issues should have been addressed sooner.


its moreso the FTP business model that I am worried about. PS2 nickel and dimed the player for everything and was very much Pay2Win. People who paid a 6 month sub progressed up to 300% faster than free players.

OP Guns were released so everybody bought them then they were nerfed a little while later. suddenly a new OP gun was released that everyone now had to buy and rinse repeat.


I have serious concerns about SOE's ability to create a non-pay to win game. I think they are more interested in creating an addictive slot machine than they are in selling a game that people buy based on its merits.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/21/13 12:50:10 PM#27
Planetside 2 is not pay to win.
All guns can be earned in game except them gold plated ones which are EXACTLY the same as the normal guns except they are gold.

People who sub progress faster. Sure. What's wrong with that? Are they supposed to make a game for free? Should free loaders get exactly the same things as paying members? Compared to other games, at least as a f2p player you have access to the whole game.

Novice Member

Joined: 6/26/13
Posts: 96

10/21/13 12:53:08 PM#28

I will agree SOE has had its issues. But as far a company, they have had all of most favorite games. SWG, DCUO, Planeside 2

I've have a station account for 11 years. if they brought SWG back, as it was at end, I would resub immediately.

How can you not like a company that makes all the best games?

Played:SWG(pre NGE/CU sucked)Yep its true, anyone who quit SWG because of the NGE/CU missed out on a much better combat system. DCUO, Fallen Earth, STO, The Secret World. Battlefield series. Planetside 2. Still playing SWG.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/21/13 12:56:44 PM#29
Also the variety of their games.

Elite Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 5950

10/21/13 12:58:53 PM#30
Originally posted by goldtoof
Planetside 2 is not pay to win.
All guns can be earned in game except them gold plated ones which are EXACTLY the same as the normal guns except they are gold.

People who sub progress faster. Sure. What's wrong with that? Are they supposed to make a game for free? Should free loaders get exactly the same things as paying members? Compared to other games, at least as a f2p player you have access to the whole game.

while the claim of it not being P2W is not that strong, after all, there are a vast number of weapons that give a huge advantage, that cost a fortune in cert points, sure, you could save them up eventually, but for some of them it would take literally weeks of playing to achieve,  Take heavies, mine is equipped with either a TMG 50, or one of the SMG's with an annihilator (totally wasted money on the annihilator ) and have a pistol, which i also bought in the cash shop.. commissioner.. at close range it will out damage just about every other weapon out there. i probably could have got them with certs, but it would have taken a very long time, months most likely.. and in the meantime i would have had to forget about getting things like, better shield or armour,  scopes for weapons, or vehicle certs.. any vehicle certs..  so.. P2W .. maybe.. maybe not.. but Pay to compete.. without a shred of doubt, hell yes.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/21/13 1:08:58 PM#31
I've never used the cash shop, just bought gear with certs, which I gain faster because I sub or the free cash I get with the sub.

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 698

10/21/13 2:37:40 PM#32
Originally posted by goldtoof
Planetside 2 is not pay to win.
All guns can be earned in game except them gold plated ones which are EXACTLY the same as the normal guns except they are gold.

People who sub progress faster. Sure. What's wrong with that? Are they supposed to make a game for free? Should free loaders get exactly the same things as paying members? Compared to other games, at least as a f2p player you have access to the whole game.

Sure you can unlock the guns if you grind for months whereas someone can pay $60 and have all of that progress instantly and have massive advantages in terms of equipment. How is that not pay 2 win? Are you trying to tell me buying rocket pods for my mosquito on day 1 isn't pay 2 win? Free players are just fodder for everyone else. 


And the releasing of OP items for RMT then nerfing them a week later is extremely unethical. The guns also had nearly identical skins, so all they had to do was change the name and some stats then re-sell the same item practically.


Obviously they need to make money, that is why you sell the game for a box price then use RMT for stuff that doesn't effect game balance like cosmetics.


SOE's FTP business is akin to selling drugs - get people hooked with a little taste, then force them to keep spending more and more by nerfing the stuff they have and releasing stronger stuff they don't have. The TR AV weapons for the first few months are a case in point. I had to buy a new launcher 3 times because the current one got nerfed. They also waited to release key items like the striker until well after release just to get people to spend.


My main point in all this is that the moment EQ Next starts selling gear and skills and uses buffs and nerfs as a way to stimulate sales the game will begin to die.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/21/13 3:08:16 PM#33
It's not a massive advantage though is it.

All the real upgrades like better armour, ammo, shields, scopes etc.. must be earned in game.

The guns in the shop aren't better, they're just different. All splashing that $60 let you do is play more roles, it doesn't let you play a single role any better.

E.g. you buy an assault rifle for an infiltrator, you can now play it as an advanced infiltration class as well as a sniper (but you can't play both at one due to the limited load out). It hasn't bought you more raw power, its bought you horizontal progression faster than a guy not using the shop.

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2656

10/22/13 5:45:57 AM#34

I would say yes.


I haven't seen mention of working with Lucas Arts.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/24/03
Posts: 178

10/22/13 9:20:15 AM#35
My only issue with EQ was the grind. EQ has always drawn me in and I'm looking forward to EQN to draw me in. EQN looks to be friendly to the casual folks out there. Can't wait to try it.

"Everything is mine and your woman too"


Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3298

10/22/13 9:29:28 AM#36
SOE hasn't done anything good since the original SWG...and we all know what SOE did to that game.  My problem with SOE is that they seem to come out with a great game (hopefully), but then due to lack of development or greed, they ruin the game.  Vanguard is a good example.  It could have been a great game, but SOE just let it sit there and die.  They fixed some bugs, but left many things buggy.  I played it for a long time, but finally got fed up with SOE, and haven't been back since.  The same goes for DCUO.  They promised really fast updates and such, but that didn't happen until they saw $$ by selling what most games give away for free.

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/22/13 9:41:48 AM#37

One thing I've learned in my 25+ years of online gaming is that listening to the players too much is a 100% sure recipe for total disaster for your game.

There's a good reason why there are people called "developers", "designers", "artists". Because they know better than a player how to make a good game.

Players are like the guy who empties the trashcans in the NASA facilities and then would suddenly think they know better than the scientists working there how to design and launch a space ship.

You players are consumers. You buy and play games, you buy and eat bread. The baker still makes bread much better than most of you would be able to. You buy cars, but most of you wouldn't be able to build you own car. Same for video games. That's what professionals are for. Just because you drive a car (or play a game) doesn't mean you can design a good one. Just because you read a book doesn't mean you have the ability to write an equally good one.

My computer is better than yours.


Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/13
Posts: 338

10/22/13 9:49:40 AM#38

Yeah I agree, its my main worry with games like ESO, too many cooks spoiling the broth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 4740

10/22/13 12:16:24 PM#39
They may have but they are making a whole bunch of new ones that are epic on there own scale!!!

=-D Only on a forum can optimism be called the bad thing and pessimism is the good thing =-D


Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/05
Posts: 2197

10/22/13 12:18:28 PM#40
i don't believe i want to even think about that. just gonna wait and see what happens with Landmark first.

"There are at least two kinds of games.
One could be called finite, the other infinite.
A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

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