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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: Do Players Embrace Change?

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49 posts found

Associate Editor - News Manager

Joined: 6/28/10
Posts: 16233

OP  10/04/13 8:43:22 AM#1

Welcome to Player Versus Player, the column for MMO players who just can’t seem to get along. This week, we’re taking a suggestion from the comments: we’ve lived it, we’ve embraced it, and we’ve rejected it. This week we’re talking about change. Read on and then leave us your thoughts in the comments.

Chris: Thanks for taking this on with me, Bill. Change is what this industry is about. When I look back at how things began and compare that to where we are now, millions more players in tow, I’m floored at how much things have changed. Most of us probably wouldn’t have believed it back then. We’ve seen change in action and are reaping the benefits even now (I have a game waiting for me after I’m done!). It honestly makes me excited for what’s still to come.

Read more of Chris Coke's & Bill Murphy's Player vs Player: Do Players Embrace Change?.

Associate Editor:
Follow me on Twitter: @MMORPGMom


Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/15/06
Posts: 435

10/04/13 2:43:32 PM#2
"Let’s be honest. Out of the 600-plus listed on our site, only a select few are worth a gamer’s time." I'm so glad you were honest about that, this alone made it worth the read!

Dozens of MMO's, RTS's, FPS's, etc.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/04/10
Posts: 326

10/04/13 2:43:50 PM#3

Change is a part of life, we need it. Espically in our MMO's. Thats part of what keeps us interested.


 But i also feel that many people that visit this site. Like myself were people that played alot of the older games. While they dont live up to todays standards. They also meant alot more. You didnt get anything without working for it.


 Todays market is a different beast. IMO many of us here miss that part of the MMO's. ACtually having to work for something.

 I dont think that will change. As mentioned. We have gone from EQ in its glory days of 250k players. To Millions of players in a single game. With a majority of them never played something like a EQ and honestly never would. We the vocal minority, who do visit such sites as this can onlly long for the days past.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 541

10/04/13 3:27:38 PM#4

Om bhur bhuvah svah
tát savitúr váreniyam
bhárgo devásya dhimahi
dhíyo yó nah pracodáyat


Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 867

10/04/13 5:00:41 PM#5
I think what the older vets miss isn't the old mechanics so much, ( afterall they were not all that great if you think of the mindless grinds, time and money sinks etc.) but the great communities that used to exist when the genre was niche.  DAoC was a good game but it was the community that made it great.  The same is true of EQ, Ao and other older titles.  It was a time when MMO's were a true hobby that you enjoyed with like minded people.  The themepark era and WoW in particular changed all that and today we just have forgettable experiences that we can solo all the way to endgame without even speaking to another person, it's sad really. 

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/13
Posts: 466

10/04/13 5:03:18 PM#6

"Do Players Embrace Change?"


What "Change" exactly???


We've only gotten the same clone over and over and then PR people screaming at the top of their lungs that it is "different" from "X" when all they're doing is lieing through their fake teeth so they don't get fired.


We WANT Change, but we're not getting it. Forcing "story" into MMORPG's is NOT "Change", it is nothing more than trying to force singleplayer gameplay onto something that doesn't want it.


Story is essentially playing someone else's scripted series of events without giving you any ability to actually choose. This is why Themepark gameplay that started with WoW died out about 2years ago (ie: essentially a 10year run). People have wanted Sandbox gameplay ever since EQ, but companies want the easy route that costs them the less while providing nothing really unique.


The players aren't the problem.


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 825

Make friends not money, then wealth will follow.

10/04/13 5:11:31 PM#7
It's a shame this site supports them at all, just goes to show that the hype shite that's goes on here has a major reason why many see the light of day. I would like to see MMORG get serious with the crap that comes out and regain some credibility, after all you guys are gamers too so come sort it out hey!



Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 4909

10/04/13 5:12:15 PM#8

Players can embrace change. It all really depends how it's presented to them. Most people like familiar and shy away from new things. If new systems are presented in a way that is easy to learn people will embrace it...if it's a good change.

If it's just dump the play in the middle of no where holding some weird object and told " this is new and fun! " most people will just log out or ask it be made more like wow.


Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

10/04/13 5:59:59 PM#9

There are changes I like, there are changes I don't like.  I'm just one voice in a chorus of a million voices, all expressing different interests and sensitivities.  Can that cacophony of opinion really be personified as a singular hive-mind?

(that said, if I didn't need some change in my gameplay, I'd still be fighting rats in the starter zone)


Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 402

10/04/13 6:18:56 PM#10

"I just think our definition of what an MMORPG can be needs to change."


Absolutely, and the sooner the better. We haven't seen real change, only the continual refinement of an old formula. Unfortunately, when real change does finally arrive it will probably be followed by another ten years of cloning and refining.



Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/11
Posts: 829

10/04/13 6:20:15 PM#11

Depends what the change is of course. Did players embrace the change from WotLK to Cataclysm - not at all well.

(Yep, I'm using this topic unashamedly to bring up my complete disappointment with Ghostcrawler's utter disaster of an expansion).


Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/05
Posts: 1278

10/04/13 6:30:03 PM#12
Originally posted by JudgeUK

Depends what the change is of course. Did players embrace the change from WotLK to Cataclysm - not at all well.

(Yep, I'm using this topic unashamedly to bring up my complete disappointment with Ghostcrawler's utter disaster of an expansion).


If you change something and take something away from players or if the change gives players something new it's completely different. Also it's pretty obvious to spot change for the sake of change where you may change the name of something but none of the functionality.

Change has to be positive and meaningful.


How to post links.

"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer


Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 563

10/04/13 6:47:12 PM#13
The real question is change for whom?  the mmo audience has never been a monolithic entity.  Even the 1st games in the sphere focused on certain play styles different from thier competition.  FFwd to today with mmo's trying to be big tent events; it's inevitable that any change will be met with equal amounts of rage, love, and meh



Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 8383

10/04/13 6:52:27 PM#14
Not a lot of the ones on this site. They are perfectly content with reskins. In general I think gamers do.
J.O.B. Daggerfalls BEST Gank Crew


Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/13
Posts: 160

10/04/13 7:00:37 PM#15
can't embrace crappy games, specially when some devs have the nerve to say their game is not an MMO yet it's marketed as such; the upcomming MMOs will fail hard because well, they are not MMORPGs, just glorified single player games

gameplay > graphics

  User Deleted
10/04/13 7:07:50 PM#16

That was the nicest PvP I've ever seen!  "I agree" started so many points :)


Chris summed up my feelings well (echoed by Bill) with:

"Chris: I think we need to look at what’s actually changing. When I think back to World of Warcraft and how it challenged questing and leveling conventions, how it blew the doors off this genre and opened it up to the world, I see change incarnate. Has anything altered so radically in a major MMO since then? That was a fundamental shift in MMO design. The closest we’ve come since then is action-combat which, while fun, kind of works against the whole players communicating thing."


Change for changes sake is rarely good.  Graphics and animations are very different from basic gameplay mechanics.


Good points on both sides.  Interesting read :)

  User Deleted
10/04/13 7:37:10 PM#17

I love it. Most of you sound like the current POTUS.  LOL.  CHANGE! CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

Well.  How would you change the MMO landscape.  What would you do differently?  How would you engage the player base?  How would you make everyone happy?  What is really pathetic is the rampant sense of entitlement and complete ADD I see from most "Gamers"


What happened was the ugly head of the current generation of what I term 'Entitlement Gamers'.

I want it now, I want it easy and damnit it you better entertain me!!! Also as an aside to those demands,  I WILL NOT PAY YOU FOR IT!

This mentality is what has destroyed community. This is why all of you bounce from game to game.  Like being in a stagnant relationship, your here but your eyes are always on the horizon.

There is a reason a game like EVE online has been steadily grwoing in numbers for 10 years.  There is a reason why EQ has been going for damn near 15 years and 20 expansions. 

It sure as hell isnt due to "change"

Flame on if you must.  But deep down you know what I say rings true to one degree or another.


Advanced Member

Joined: 9/14/07
Posts: 563

10/04/13 8:12:49 PM#18
Originally posted by Gregorridavion

I love it. Most of you sound like the current POTUS.  LOL.  CHANGE! CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

Well.  How would you change the MMO landscape.  What would you do differently?  How would you engage the player base?  How would you make everyone happy?  What is really pathetic is the rampant sense of entitlement and complete ADD I see from most "Gamers"


What happened was the ugly head of the current generation of what I term 'Entitlement Gamers'.

I want it now, I want it easy and damnit it you better entertain me!!! Also as an aside to those demands,  I WILL NOT PAY YOU FOR IT!

This mentality is what has destroyed community. This is why all of you bounce from game to game.  Like being in a stagnant relationship, your here but your eyes are always on the horizon.

There is a reason a game like EVE online has been steadily grwoing in numbers for 10 years.  There is a reason why EQ has been going for damn near 15 years and 20 expansions. 

It sure as hell isnt due to "change"

Flame on if you must.  But deep down you know what I say rings true to one degree or another.

Welcome to big tent marketing at it's finest :D  pull em all in; piss em all offl; hope you have some at the end


Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 319

10/05/13 2:29:48 AM#19

No players do not embrace change. This can be seen just by reading the forums here and on the TESO web page about guild stores and the pvp in Cyrodiil and faction locked adventure areas.

The game is not even out yet and there are loads of post moaning about guild stores will fail. I really can not see how they can, this just reminds me of the player vendors in UO and SWG. A system I prefer over the usual AH.

TSW tried to move away from the holy trinity of classes and raids, but they caved in and put in raids and a LFG tool detailing what part of the trinity you can play as. This is because of the WoW crowd bitching about it and not being able or willing to learn a new game. Closed Beta was fine and everyone was happy with how things worked. Open beta and we got the moaners.

WoW changed the mmo industry, but not for the better. Its a great game and it has one major flaw. It made the MMO games to casual, and in that gave players what they wanted on a silver plate. Now if a new game is not exactly like WoW it gets bashed by the players till the devs give in and make it like WoW, but by then 99% of the population has left and the ones that stay get fed up with the game because they liked the original view of the game.

Happened in SWG with the NGE update. I saw it on a personal level on the Farstar server.

Sad fact is that the casual gamer does not like change and would rather play a wow clone than a new game entirely.


Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/10/07
Posts: 55

10/05/13 3:15:00 AM#20

Change for changes sake is not good, though change can be good.


If somthing works great and people like it, why change it?

The problem is Developers just randomly change game mechanics, sometimes for the better, most of the time its not.

Key issues:

1. Developer  focuses so much on one aspect of the game they want to change they leave out 5 other key MMO-RPG aspects. ie focus on active combat and forget relevent crafting. in other words they make a half arse game.

2. Developers try to recreate the wheel. if something works good and players like it, keep it, focus on adding new yet unseen features while keeping all the beloved features. ( how many game have i tried lately that claim to have the best combat, but once I start playing I get annoyed because they left out the most basic of UI features) I stop playing those games because one great feature does not out wiegh 10 other missing features!

There has been some games that have created very cool new features, that I have been excited about.

TSW - Skill system while still making the trinity and team work essenitial. A fun movement oriented combat system.

Warhammer Online - Public Quests

Games like EQ2 and WoW had tons of great and enjoyable features, heck EQ2 had one of the greatest UIs ever, yet with all this so called change there has not been a game since that has offered half the UI customization as these two older games.


I like using Neverwinter Nights as an example - One of the greatest player driven mini-MMOs ever created. This game had one of the most loyal and active fan bases of any game. Instead of giving players a sequal that was the original with better graphics and new features, develpoers tried to recreate the game, thus distroying something that was near perfect. Changes for changes sake ruined this great game.


I don't mind a developer going out a limb and creating something new, they live and die by their sword. I would like a few developers to take a look bacwards and grab all the great features of olders games and glue them all togather into a new packages, give me an MMO-RPG with everything for a change.

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