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World of Warcraft

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General Discussion  » Next Expansion to Make or Break WoW

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40 posts found
  Imperator91

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/04/07
Posts: 5

9/29/13 11:18:27 PM#21
  1. Perhaps my previous statement was a little harsh, it's just something I tend to see a lot of. And yes, chagnes are necessary if they want to hit that 12 million mark again, but there's so much capital involved the changes will happen slowly and conservatively. You just can't take chances with a flagship like this. 
  2. Also, I get the feeling that Blizzard is sick and tired of being chained to WoW. So I don't know how much they care at this point. I think the fact that their next big project is going to be a completely original story says a lot.
  Oberholzer

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/25/06
Posts: 490

9/29/13 11:26:05 PM#22
It's an older game. I don't see it getting back to where it was even if they made a lot of the changes people seem to yearn for. I also wonder really for all the people that say "I'd come back if they did this" would really go back. Hopefully they come out with an expac the people still playing will enjoy.
  Silenttank

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/08
Posts: 17

9/29/13 11:28:46 PM#23
It might not be the game itself that's losing people it's most likely outside sources. You gotta consider the competition that comes and tries to be the new "WoW killer", people's interest in MMO's dwindling, LoL being the most popular PC game making people flock to that, and etc. Granted Blizz has done a lot to really revamp the game. I can look back 6 months at a time and there's always something new that's implemented into the game. WoW is still the most played MMO currently and will probably remain so. If I were Blizz I wouldn't be too worried, you don't have to change something that isn't broken.
  Thupli

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 399

9/29/13 11:35:56 PM#24

Here's my ideas INSTEAD of radical change:

 

Make legacy servers for Vanilla and every expansion there-after.  A lot of players have quit and long for those days again.  Many of them never even "beat" the final raids of the expansion (at least for Vanilla, TBC, and to a lesser extent Wrath).

 

This would bring back the players that have left "for good", like myself.  I'd like to work on Black Temple and Sunwell on a Blizzard supported server.  I'd like a level 60 priest with priest racials for RP-PVP.  I know there are others out there like me.  These are the player that are done with the game.

 

That would be a super, SUPER simple way to bring LOTS of players back.

 

  ThomasN7

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6652

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

9/29/13 11:50:19 PM#25
Not sure what they can do to bring back people.  People are unsubbing at the speed of light as it is because they are tired of the same old same old.
  Hulluck

Elite Member

Joined: 1/19/13
Posts: 423

9/30/13 1:08:38 AM#26
Originally posted by Thupli

Here's my ideas INSTEAD of radical change:

 

Make legacy servers for Vanilla and every expansion there-after.  A lot of players have quit and long for those days again.  Many of them never even "beat" the final raids of the expansion (at least for Vanilla, TBC, and to a lesser extent Wrath).

 

This would bring back the players that have left "for good", like myself.  I'd like to work on Black Temple and Sunwell on a Blizzard supported server.  I'd like a level 60 priest with priest racials for RP-PVP.  I know there are others out there like me.  These are the player that are done with the game.

 

That would be a super, SUPER simple way to bring LOTS of players back.

 

Think a lot of  people are forgetting the downside to the vanilla raids.  They killed guilds. That's why Blizzard changed them.  It really was that simple. Most people only saw the first boss in  BWL.  He was a massive hurdle. That instance chewed guilds up and spit them out like it was nothing.  I saw so many guilds on our server just cave on the first boss. A guild needed to have people running them who were good leaders, had the time to organize the guild, and then keep it running smoothly. It took a lot of support support from a good portion of the guild members. Keeping the guild fed with raid materials, Pots / elixers / resistance gear, was basically a second job. I personally enjoyed it. But a lot of people didn't. 

For that matter there weren't that many that were able to clear AQ 20 on our server, for whatever reason. The Blizzard forums were a constant reminder of how few actually saw any content past MC or the first boss in BWL.

  IntheShadows

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/27/12
Posts: 57

9/30/13 1:36:40 AM#27
Originally posted by Hulluck
Originally posted by Thupli

Here's my ideas INSTEAD of radical change:

 

Make legacy servers for Vanilla and every expansion there-after.  A lot of players have quit and long for those days again.  Many of them never even "beat" the final raids of the expansion (at least for Vanilla, TBC, and to a lesser extent Wrath).

 

This would bring back the players that have left "for good", like myself.  I'd like to work on Black Temple and Sunwell on a Blizzard supported server.  I'd like a level 60 priest with priest racials for RP-PVP.  I know there are others out there like me.  These are the player that are done with the game.

 

That would be a super, SUPER simple way to bring LOTS of players back.

 Thank you, Thupli! That was exactly my suggestion!

Think a lot of  people are forgetting the downside to the vanilla raids.  They killed guilds. That's why Blizzard changed them.  It really was that simple. Most people only saw the first boss in  BWL.  He was a massive hurdle. That instance chewed guilds up and spit them out like it was nothing.  I saw so many guilds on our server just cave on the first boss. A guild needed to have people running them who were good leaders, had the time to organize the guild, and then keep it running smoothly. It took a lot of support support from a good portion of the guild members. Keeping the guild fed with raid materials, Pots / elixers / resistance gear, was basically a second job. I personally enjoyed it. But a lot of people didn't. 

For that matter there weren't that many that were able to clear AQ 20 on our server, for whatever reason. The Blizzard forums were a constant reminder of how few actually saw any content past MC or the first boss in BWL.

Well that would be the beauty of having servers for each expansion. You find that Vanilla isn't for you or miss you the little conveniences that came with a later expansion you move on to TBC or WOTLK.

  Hulluck

Elite Member

Joined: 1/19/13
Posts: 423

9/30/13 2:54:55 AM#28
Originally posted by IntheShadows
Originally posted by Hulluck
Originally posted by Thupli

Here's my ideas INSTEAD of radical change:

 

Make legacy servers for Vanilla and every expansion there-after.  A lot of players have quit and long for those days again.  Many of them never even "beat" the final raids of the expansion (at least for Vanilla, TBC, and to a lesser extent Wrath).

 

This would bring back the players that have left "for good", like myself.  I'd like to work on Black Temple and Sunwell on a Blizzard supported server.  I'd like a level 60 priest with priest racials for RP-PVP.  I know there are others out there like me.  These are the player that are done with the game.

 

That would be a super, SUPER simple way to bring LOTS of players back.

 Thank you, Thupli! That was exactly my suggestion!

Think a lot of  people are forgetting the downside to the vanilla raids.  They killed guilds. That's why Blizzard changed them.  It really was that simple. Most people only saw the first boss in  BWL.  He was a massive hurdle. That instance chewed guilds up and spit them out like it was nothing.  I saw so many guilds on our server just cave on the first boss. A guild needed to have people running them who were good leaders, had the time to organize the guild, and then keep it running smoothly. It took a lot of support support from a good portion of the guild members. Keeping the guild fed with raid materials, Pots / elixers / resistance gear, was basically a second job. I personally enjoyed it. But a lot of people didn't. 

For that matter there weren't that many that were able to clear AQ 20 on our server, for whatever reason. The Blizzard forums were a constant reminder of how few actually saw any content past MC or the first boss in BWL.

Well that would be the beauty of having servers for each expansion. You find that Vanilla isn't for you or miss you the little conveniences that came with a later expansion you move on to TBC or WOTLK.

That's true. Though the negative side effect would be those, no doubt there would be a lot, that wanted more than just legacy servers. They would want Blizzard to develop for those servers because it's still only a few being able to see that content.

My experience was fairly unique to most players of my class. I never experienced the innervate or gtfo problems most druids faced.  I got really lucky with my guild pick. Was one of only two in our guild.  When I joined we had not even cleared MC yet. So I was a long for the whole ride. I was far from being their first choice. I have no doubts about it. But I had 100% raid attendance and the free time needed. I also didn't cause any problems or drama (rock the boat). All the little things that slowly killed raid guilds.

Most of the time I could be any spec I wanted. Some fights during progression however it became obvious that I should probably spec innervate just to help things along until we at least learned the encounter. That said I still generally healed because that's what I wanted do. However I and the other druid never got forced into any spec.  Another upside was that being one of only two druids in the guild we got our raid gear stupidly fast. Once the rouges got their stuff we were allowed to grab that stuff as well if it wasn't class locked.  We were both overflowing with all the crap we could ever want and other classes were struggling to get their t2 - t3 sets complete let alone the none set stuff.

I and the other druid were given plenty of opportunities to main or off-tank on learned fights if we could hold aggro or the fight allowed our toolset to do so. I was a moonkin for months. Never got asked to switch back to a healer spec. I buffed the mages / warlocks so they just saw it as a increase to overall dps. I forget exactly what that group bonus did but it was caster related if I remember correctly. Can't say I ever ran into another raiding druid on the server who had a similar experience to what we had. Really unique experience and I knew it. Wasn't conceded about it or anything. Actually pretty humble but that still didn't stop people for holding a grudge against me simply because I played a class that most frowned upon at the time and ended up in a lucky situation progressing through gear the way I was.  I knew I was in a very lucky and limited situation and there were much better druids than me on the server.  For whatever reason they just didn't fit the bill. Time constraints or whatever.  For me, legacy servers could never bring that experience back or get me to play again. Though nothing against them.

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

9/30/13 4:21:00 AM#29

Not much to do to "save WoW", as it doesn't need saving. It's still the most financially successful MMO on the market. The next expansion will build on the same old stuff, sell millions of copies and garner a ton of subs again. It will easily pay back any development costs involved.

Personally, I don't think there will be any radical changes to WoW, ever. The most radical one will be when they decide to go F2P before the inevitable death blow (which won't be a blow, but a slow decline over time).

It should still easily carry them through to their new MMO, whenever and whatever that will be.

 

The only thing I think has already changed is the philosophy behind project Titan. Before, I would bet Blizzard was trying it's utmost to make it not compete with World of Warcarft. Now, I'm almost sure they are redesigning it to be the replacement to WoW, which is then left to die after Titan launches.

 

  furbans

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/10/13
Posts: 874

9/30/13 4:56:51 AM#30

WoW's peak is over and done with, there is no going back.  However it is still thee most successful MMO out there.   WoW is a dated game in todays standards  and newer flashier MMOs will be catching the playerbase that have grown tired of WoW.  This expac will see the same pattern that all past expacs had, great sales and a temporarily influx of sales.

Next expansion make or break WoW?  Hardly and don't make me die of hysterical laughter.  WoW will continue to trudge along as the behemoth that it is and taking great strides.  WoW is still very far off from the F2P/B2P transition which when it does, it will the first indicator that WoW is losing its profitability.  With ESO, WS, and EQN on the horizon more subs will be leeched away at the end of the year through the beginning of next year.

  TorreyH

Novice Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 42

10/01/13 3:26:22 AM#31
Originally posted by Karteli

Well actually, WoW started seeing a decline mid-way through WotLK.  About the same time as LFD went in to trivialize the social experience .. and about the time the in-game item cash-shop went in ... coincidence, I'm sure.

 

I don't think Blizzard can do much to fix the damage that LFD, LFR, and recently cross-realm zones have caused.  It's just not the same game it used to be, by a long shot.  Many other factors, like instant-gratification, epics for everyone, dailies galore, no large scale raiding, no importance of guilds other than being in a big one to get the perks, casual friendly, etc.

This.

More than anything else, its all the cross-server stuff that has wrecked the social aspect of the game.  1-90 is basically a single player game now.  I mean, literally, you can solo the whole damn thing, without ever interacting with another player.  In what sense is that an MMORPG?  Then, at the end game, for probably most of us, there is no way to progress except running LFR with a bunch of strangers.  Guilds - except for hard-core raiders - are almost an anachronism now, held together only by the perks they give.  Otherwise, what's the point?  Its not like you NEED anyone, ever, to do anything.  EZ mode soloing and LFR, that's the current state of affairs.

I used to LOVE this game - I've played since Beta.  Its been gutted, and the heart ripped out, because the heart is not purple pixels, its OTHER PLAYERS.  Group quests, dungeons (that you need to walk to with your friends), elite mobs that can't be solo'd - these are the things that build community.  Blizzard needs to take a look at the falling subs and dying servers, and admit that they're going in the wrong direction.  Slick production values, and an overwhelming emphasis on end-game raid content, are not enough to fill the hollowness which used to be friendship and camaraderie and SHARED adventures.  Cutting WAY back on the cross-server stuff is the only way to save the game.  Part of that, of course, is consolidating servers - not masking the decline with cross-server tricks that destroy the community.

And bring back the RPG!  The talent trees have been dumbed down to the point of absurdity, and so much of what made the classes distinctive and challenging has been homogenized away.  The class quests, too, should be resurrected.  And require HELP from...well, you know, those other players.  :-) 

  KhinRunite

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

10/01/13 3:59:12 AM#32

Wow, you guys make a great job of portraying World of Warcraft servers as either desolate or void of any social activity.

It's a good thing that I know better.

You also make it sound like Vanilla up to BC are all roses and sunshine; the best the game has ever been.

It's a good thing I know better.

  infofront

Novice Member

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 158

10/01/13 2:43:00 PM#33
Originally posted by KhinRunite

Wow, you guys make a great job of portraying World of Warcraft servers as either desolate or void of any social activity.

It's a good thing that I know better.

You also make it sound like Vanilla up to BC are all roses and sunshine; the best the game has ever been.

It's a good thing I know better.

Your last point is pretty debatable. I believe there are way too many conveniences that detract from the game's overall experience, post-BC. Also the killing off of world PvP, and addition of server battle groups, or whatever they're called, back in late-Vanilla, eliminated the server community. Back in the good ol' days, there were a lot of community organized events, there was a lot of guild rivalry, a ton of inter-faction rivalry, and a real sense of community.

People can argue all they want that it's up to the individual to create social experiences, but the fact is that the game has been fighting against social activity for a long time now.

  laresloci

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/08
Posts: 385

10/01/13 6:39:45 PM#34
Originally posted by Imperator91
  1. Perhaps my previous statement was a little harsh, it's just something I tend to see a lot of. And yes, chagnes are necessary if they want to hit that 12 million mark again, but there's so much capital involved the changes will happen slowly and conservatively. You just can't take chances with a flagship like this. 
  2. Also, I get the feeling that Blizzard is sick and tired of being chained to WoW. So I don't know how much they care at this point. I think the fact that their next big project is going to be a completely original story says a lot.

 

Well, they are at the whims of their share holders no matter what the "feeling" may be.

Why is it that, as a culture, we are more comfortable seeing two men holding guns than holding hands? ~Ernest Gaines

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 825

10/01/13 8:18:15 PM#35

WoW is in little danger of being "broken."

 

Worst case scenario is the downward trend continues, eventually leveling off much like EQ1 did.  The level off point for EQ1 looks to be somewhere around 10% of its peak.  Do the math with WoW, and you have around 500k NA/EU subscribers and over 1 mill world wide players.  So in WoW's 'death', it will still be one of the top MMOs in the world.

 

I do think the right expansion could cause a good resurgence...the game is past its peak population but i think a burning legion expansion with a wotlk sized new set of zones and some kind of talent tree system returning could get it back near 9-10 mil for a while.

  syriinx

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/24/13
Posts: 825

10/01/13 8:21:58 PM#36
Originally posted by laresloc

 

Well, they are at the whims of their share holders no matter what the "feeling" may be.

Except they really aren't.  Shareholders arent going to stop Blizzard from focusing on one game vs another or make any kind of product decisions at all.

  User Deleted
10/01/13 9:00:41 PM#37

I don't think Blizzard really cares about the decline that much. Actually the population of a game should decline after so many years, people move on and it doesn't matter what they change in the game, and I'm sure things are how Blizzard expects them to be right now in regards to WoW. Actually, they are probably super excited right now. Next year is going to be a crazy good year for Blizzard. Diablo 3 expansion is going to be amazing and sell millions, Hearthstone is going to be more popular than WoW ever was (not to mention get new players interested in WoW), Blizzard All Stars is comming, and on top of all that there will be a new WoW expansion. I like how they are handling D3, with all the changes they're making, and Hearthstone looks pretty cool, so I think they will make the next WoW expansion right. 

 

  Theocritus

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3613

10/01/13 9:13:17 PM#38
WoW is facing the same dilemmas that EQ faced: TOo many expansions......Yo ucan only stretch the content so far and wit hso many games f2p nowadays they're losing customers because people can play other games for free.......Some of them are even direct ripoffs of WoW (Rift for example) so why continue to pay for expansions and subs with f2ps out there?......Also I felt they should have introduced a 3rd faction at some point.....A neutral faction that dislikes both the horde and Alliance......It would bring new life to thje battlegrounds and if they implement world pvp better it would improve that also......WHile they continue to boast the 7.7 million we know it is signifcantly less than that because most of us only consider NA/EQ as their true customer base.
  Lord.Bachus

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Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8564

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

10/02/13 11:46:32 PM#39
Originally posted by Karteli

Well actually, WoW started seeing a decline mid-way through WotLK.  About the same time as LFD went in to trivialize the social experience .. and about the time the in-game item cash-shop went in ... coincidence, I'm sure.

 

I don't think Blizzard can do much to fix the damage that LFD, LFR, and recently cross-realm zones have caused.  It's just not the same game it used to be, by a long shot.  Many other factors, like instant-gratification, epics for everyone, dailies galore, no large scale raiding, no importance of guilds other than being in a big one to get the perks, casual friendly, etc.

 

I guess if it could be put into minimal words, the game just became more about the individual rather than the experiences with others, necessary to achieve greatness.

 

Defend away, it's just not the same game to me, noticeable post BC.

 

But anyways, it's not about the next xpac so much as the current state.  It will probably follow the same decline regardless of whatever story Blizzard comes up with.  The next xpac won't make or break WoW, and I'm sure it is in Blizzard's interest to support WoW at least until Titan.

People change...

 

I only play games these days that have LFG tools to get into the multiplayer grouping part of the game..  Its convenient for casual players that dont want to spend hours finding people to play with.

 

And being social and active in groups makes the experience rather fun..

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Grummus

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/13
Posts: 114

10/03/13 7:36:14 AM#40
An AA system or talent system akin to EQ1/EQ2 would go a long way to curb turnover and mindlessness at the top end. Allowing for slower content progression via more difficult content and overall playerbase stability. As far as I've heard, read or been lead to believe for the past several years the main basis behind WOW's expansions has been planned out for years in advance, essentially this should be the next Burning Legion expansion.
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