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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] EverQuest Next: No Class Race Restriction is a Good Thing

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108 posts found
  Xiaoki

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/04
Posts: 2512

9/28/13 8:25:45 PM#81

Sounds like every time some hardcore EQ1 vet complains about EQN its because its making some slight deviation from the EQ1 design mold, even if that deviation is only imagined because of faulty memory(ie the guns poll).


Yet these same complain endlessly that MMOs these days are just copies of each other and they are merely the "same old, same old".


So, the people that are so angered about these polls want a copy of EQ1 but want something completely new?


And you wonder why SOE doesnt consider your opinions.

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

9/28/13 8:31:22 PM#82
Originally posted by Xiaoki

Sounds like every time some hardcore EQ1 vet complains about EQN its because its making some slight deviation from the EQ1 design mold, even if that deviation is only imagined because of faulty memory(ie the guns poll).


Yet these same complain endlessly that MMOs these days are just copies of each other and they are merely the "same old, same old".


So, the people that are so angered about these polls want a copy of EQ1 but want something completely new?


And you wonder why SOE doesnt consider your opinions.

Those slight deviations add up though.  one here, another there.  So you can simplify the whole matter by saying it's just a slight deviation .. when really the whole game is different.

 

When MMORPG'ers said they wanted something different, I think they wanted a game with staying power, not a game that one-ups GW2.

 

As they say, every dog has their day .. SOE will have theirs too (again).  Their last release was Wizardry Online right? okie doke..

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11780

9/28/13 8:45:26 PM#83
Originally posted by Karteli

When MMORPG'ers said they wanted something different, I think they wanted a game with staying power, not a game that one-ups GW2.

As they say, every dog has their day .. SOE will have theirs too (again).  Their last release was Wizardry Online right? okie doke..

SOE is only the publisher for WO  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry_Online

 

SOE (as a game developer)  last release was Planetside 2

  Karteli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/12
Posts: 2704

9/28/13 9:04:37 PM#84
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Karteli

When MMORPG'ers said they wanted something different, I think they wanted a game with staying power, not a game that one-ups GW2.

As they say, every dog has their day .. SOE will have theirs too (again).  Their last release was Wizardry Online right? okie doke..

SOE is only the publisher for WO  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizardry_Online

 

SOE (as a game developer)  last release was Planetside 2

In regards to WO, As "Only" the publisher .. they "Only" released it,  They also "Only" westernized it.  The game had horrid mechanics and cash-shop related circumventions to help avoid perma-death inflated probabilities of true loss as level went up.  The F2P had to sacrifice their equipment, but those who paid could keep their hard earned gear and pay a fee.

 

SOE "Only" published it with a cash incentive in mind.  It flopped.

 

They did not develop it, you are correct.  But they didn't make the game appealing, did they?  And if the dev blew chucks, why did SOE even pick that title up?  $$$

 

On Topic This may give a glimpse into the aspirations of SOE.  It's an up-and-coming EA without body or soul, just making stuff for cash influxes.  I really love some of the ideas EQN has .. but I wish there was more of a longterm game involved.  One I can sink my teeth into for the next several years .. kinda like EQ1.

 

It's unfortunate people keep trying to distance EQN from EQ1 and buying into SOE propaganda.  EQ1 created an intricate world where social mix mattered, and people wanted to log on .. not because they wanted to be the best of the best .. but because someone out there needed them, and was counting on them.

 

Take social need away, where any one toon can click here to change classes, and race doesn't matter, then you get an enhanced GW2 system where groups only need warm bodies, not anyone specific.  No skill? no worries!  Just move around and take some punches .. do occasional damage, do a self heal button .. don't forget to spam dodge ... and .. let me press my "I WIN" button .. there we go!

 

 

 

 

Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  issling

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/09/12
Posts: 129

I have my rose tinted glass's at a full shine!

9/28/13 9:05:38 PM#85

I would hope there is something different between the races, because if it really doesn't matter what you pick what is the point.

You can't use lore anymore because this isn't EQ anymore right? Will this just be a game of mini games who can collect all the class's the fastest. There will be a zillion player made content with no purpose or connection to any kind of lore?

I don't say this to attack the game I am just confused on what this game will be about, people keep saying it is a sandbox, but what makes it a sandbox. Is a sandbox a game where everybody has to be the exact same? Or will it be that it will make everybody different?  

So my question is what will link everything together,  what is the glue? All other games have some loose story that ties everything? This seems more like a series of calculated systems that their marketing team has come up with.

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3622

9/28/13 9:53:46 PM#86
Originally posted by Xiaoki

Sounds like every time some hardcore EQ1 vet complains about EQN its because its making some slight deviation from the EQ1 design mold, even if that deviation is only imagined because of faulty memory(ie the guns poll).


Yet these same complain endlessly that MMOs these days are just copies of each other and they are merely the "same old, same old".


So, the people that are so angered about these polls want a copy of EQ1 but want something completely new?


And you wonder why SOE doesnt consider your opinions.

 Actually you couldn't be further from the truth....There are no other games like EQ1 but there are tons where every character can be any race and class and do everything.....Those are a dime a dozen now....EQN isn't setting a trend its just following what it thinks will make it the most money.....

  Theocritus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/15/08
Posts: 3622

9/28/13 9:55:44 PM#87
Originally posted by issling

I would hope there is something different between the races, because if it really doesn't matter what you pick what is the point.

You can't use lore anymore because this isn't EQ anymore right? Will this just be a game of mini games who can collect all the class's the fastest. There will be a zillion player made content with no purpose or connection to any kind of lore?

I don't say this to attack the game I am just confused on what this game will be about, people keep saying it is a sandbox, but what makes it a sandbox. Is a sandbox a game where everybody has to be the exact same? Or will it be that it will make everybody different?  

So my question is what will link everything together,  what is the glue? All other games have some loose story that ties everything? This seems more like a series of calculated systems that their marketing team has come up with.

 This game is about taking ideas of the two hottest games at the moment and trying to make money for SOE....Thats it....

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2800

9/28/13 10:13:19 PM#88

This is just another shallow/stupid mode choice from SOE.

In just about all fantasy game IPs ever made, some races simply do better at some things than others. Lizardman mages? Nope. Fairy Paladins? The hell you say. Half-orc or half-ogre thief? Is that even legal? Most game systems are sophisticated enough to have rules dealing with those things. But not here.

Of course, it is much easier for the devs to program every race having the same base stats, but it reflects choosing a simpler, more shallow view of game play and game play choices. Considering the lack of game design talent at SOE these design choices might not be wholly voluntary, if they don't have people good enough to handle it, but there is another reason probably more likely.

It shows what SOE thinks about their customers: that they are too stupid to figure out having meaningful racial differences and how to deal with them. Even if having them makes a better game.

It is just SOE trying to put out a product for the lowest common denominator gamer, again. And it is a primary reason I hold little hope for this title.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11780

9/28/13 11:07:46 PM#89
Originally posted by Burntvet

[Lizardman mages? Nope. Fairy Paladins? The hell you say. Half-orc or half-ogre thief? Is that even legal?

Fairy paladins make more sense to me than Tauren Paladins

traditional d&d had half orc thieves

old school EQ had Barbarian thieves and VahShir thieves  (both large races)

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2800

9/28/13 11:15:10 PM#90
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Burntvet

[Lizardman mages? Nope. Fairy Paladins? The hell you say. Half-orc or half-ogre thief? Is that even legal?

Fairy paladins make more sense to me than Tauren Paladins

traditional d&d had half orc thieves

old school EQ had Barbarian thieves and VahShir thieves  (both large races)

But not without racial penalties.

Should a half-orc thief be as effective as a halfling thief? No way. But none of that matters to SOE.

And that is the point, they have taken out both racial bonuses AND penalties out, in dumbing the whole thing down.

 

It should not be a surprise: SOE has been making dumbed down games for a while now, in their last several titles.

EQN will be no different, and the removal of any racial stats is just one indication of that.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2265

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

9/28/13 11:25:25 PM#91
Originally posted by Burntvet
Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Burntvet

[Lizardman mages? Nope. Fairy Paladins? The hell you say. Half-orc or half-ogre thief? Is that even legal?

Fairy paladins make more sense to me than Tauren Paladins

traditional d&d had half orc thieves

old school EQ had Barbarian thieves and VahShir thieves  (both large races)

But not without racial penalties.

Should a half-orc thief be as effective as a halfling thief? No way. But none of that matters to SOE.

And that is the point, they have taken out both racial bonuses AND penalties out, in dumbing the whole thing down.

 

It should not be a surprise: SOE has been making dumbed down games for a while now, in their last several titles.

EQN will be no different, and the removal of any racial stats is just one indication of that.

Maybe there will be a robust faction system helping you to differentiate your character. Small consolation, but there is still some hope.

 

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5394

9/29/13 4:58:59 AM#92

Why do posters think there will be a robust faction system or a robust anything else? The thinking the EQNext team used for class restrictions will be applied for every issue like this:

-Can a player be disadvantaged and not realise that they are going to be disadvantaged? If YES then don't put it in.-

This is how you build an easyMMode MMO. They are not going to sometimes decided to take a more difficult route as future roundtable threads will prove. In fact I am starting to think after this they may be careful about what questions they ask. This has exposed the way the MMO will be built. They won't want that to happen again, we will probably have more questions like "should female dwarves have beards" now.

  feztonio

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/30/13
Posts: 25

9/29/13 5:30:26 AM#93
at least they didn't lie but it seems silly to ask if they were going to go one way regardless. it's like when a chick you're dating asks "which color shirt should I wear the blue or the green.. you tell her green, then she says "I'm going with the blue" haha.  if you have a specific thing in mind don't be a sociopath and ask for a decision just to do the opposite.
  Xthos

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/18/10
Posts: 2651

9/29/13 2:12:26 PM#94

Well, I am not so set on them being in there, or not being in there, I voted to have restrictions, because I think it adds to the game, to make things have a little bit of difference or uniqueness.

 

The disturbing thing is that this now makes the player round tables look like a illusion of input, and that things are pretty much already planned out for the most part, and they will not change anything that they may not be on the fence about.

 

I worry that this game is going to be so simple and easy, that it will not hold veteran mmo players intrest.  I will have to wait and see, but I am not getting a good feeling for this...Everything is about accessibility and such, which I find as a code for simple/easy and very little time needed.

I will just wait and see for the most part, things seem so far off, landmark is coming out, but after they hinted that things were further along, its all adding up to looking like a disappointment.

  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 222

9/29/13 2:29:24 PM#95

well at least landmark will aught to be good fun for a t least a couple of years maybe by then soe will take the hint and reboot  eq1 with eqnext tech offer it as a seperate game and we will be happy ah blisss it would be .. maybe i would even find myself  finding out its 4 am and ive been up all night again! or fall asleep at the keyboard like a certain bard i knew did way back in the day

But soe if you do dont do it like eq2 please make the excuse for the other places being unreachable to be war or something less rediculous ! start around  qeynos  and freport  fill in the map SLOWLY  fight dragons and god and ubershit later int he game so  uber stuff is uber longericonic bosses that lvl with players so instead of bosses becomeing weak when you lvl your younger raiders might fight their sons/daughters or minions instead of lord nagafen and such. strategys might become known, but bosses never easy due to lvl

 

  quseio

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/18/07
Posts: 222

9/29/13 2:42:03 PM#96
oh and fire that  damned artist if you do  and soe ... dark elfs SHOULD NOT have horns
  Leiros

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 227

"mmorpg.com forums: Where SWG vets go to die."

9/29/13 7:10:30 PM#97

"So why would Sony Online Entertainment and the EverQuest Next team fly in the face of their fans?"  

Because that's what SOE does. Case in point: Star Wars Galaxies NGE.

  Aldous.Huxley

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/04/13
Posts: 443

9/29/13 7:34:04 PM#98
Was there really ever any doubt that the "round table" was nothing but PR hype?
  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2265

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

10/02/13 1:24:40 PM#99
Originally posted by Scot

Why do posters think there will be a robust faction system or a robust anything else? The thinking the EQNext team used for class restrictions will be applied for every issue like this:

-Can a player be disadvantaged and not realise that they are going to be disadvantaged? If YES then don't put it in.-

This is how you build an easyMMode MMO. They are not going to sometimes decided to take a more difficult route as future roundtable threads will prove. In fact I am starting to think after this they may be careful about what questions they ask. This has exposed the way the MMO will be built. They won't want that to happen again, we will probably have more questions like "should female dwarves have beards" now.

Because they alluded to a robust faction system in the reveal.

I imagine if faction is fluid and fluctuates and you can control it, and if you can 'undo' any mistakes through fun gameplay, it would not fall into the catagory of unknowingly creating disadvantage. 

Or it might.

I don't know how it will shake out...hence my use of the word 'maybe'.

 

  MMORPGtester

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/06
Posts: 71

10/18/13 3:21:51 PM#100
So i can make a plate wearing mage gnome that has the ability to heal himself and use 2- 1 hand swords?
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