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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] EverQuest Next: No Class Race Restriction is a Good Thing

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109 posts found
  Novusod

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/09
Posts: 860

9/27/13 3:15:12 AM#61

I think they are making a mistake by going against the community like this. It was a solid Majority not a plurality that wanted class restrictions.

  • 40% saying that certain races should be restricted to certain classes
  • 27% saying that no class restrictions but penalties levied for certain races
  • 14% saying that it adds an element of replayability if race restrictions are in place

See what they did there. They split the vote as those options should be added together to make 54% in favor of race restrictions. That is such complete and total dishonesty right there. That is a great way to start your game by rail roading more than half your community.

 

This just proves that Round Table nothing but PR with all real design decisions already made. Hey folks your opinion does matter we were just trying to build hype.

 

Personally I think they should go with soft restrictions. Nothing is stopping you from making a Fae berserker or an Ogre mage but there should be some penalties for making such a decision. Or at least have a trade off in stats. The little Fae can't use all the weapons because they are too big and too heavy or an Ogre mage can't use all the spells because they are too dumb. I think the old D&D logic should apply. One races' dagger is a another races' two handed sword. Balance it with weight restrictions and dexterity penalties. Over burdened with weight then wear less armor if you want to use a giant sword. This game should promote experimentation with builds like D&D did. Sandbox isn't just about world design. It is about class design as well.

 

STOP making every decision to placate min / max power gamers. Those people are a poison to the community and yet they always get their way. It is because of them we see mechanics that support little pocket knives doing more damage than a greatsword or huge axe. Lets at least have some pretense at realism before going completely off the wall.

  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 615

9/27/13 4:07:43 AM#62

The decision is ok, it is their game after all.

But they should take down those polls. The have no purpose/meaning anyway. They are just there to keep the hype going and to give the future players the illusion they have anything to say about what EQN will be aboutd. They haven't of course which was clear anyway from the beginning,

  Otomox

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 312

9/27/13 5:28:21 AM#63
How about no? Stop this casual propaganda!
  EndoRoboto

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/13
Posts: 298

9/27/13 6:48:05 AM#64
I lost hope when he said this isn't an Eq1 reboot but something different entirely. Sad.
  ghorgos

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 128

9/27/13 6:54:16 AM#65
Originally posted by Elikal

I never was a fan of class restrictions. I mean, can I just be a baker or a cop because I am a White dude? Why should a race restrict your "job"? It just doesn't make sense. Why should Gnomes or Elfs or Orcs not be capable to do the same stuff?

Maybe a D&D Elf being not so stroung and resilient would have a hard TIME to start as warrior, but with training he could do that! Nobody should hinder you. I mean, hell we have 2013 not 1979, grokk it?

Seriously, don't take game so serious!

Comparing thooses races to different types of humans is wrong. Much better is a comparism to different species of animals. Now take a cheetah, elephant and dolphin and the "classes" sprinter, swimmer, weightlifter and you will notice that the race will make a huge difference and no training is able to change that. 

  ZeGerman

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/07/12
Posts: 172

9/27/13 11:04:16 AM#66
Originally posted by ChaaK
Makes perfect sense, though how come they didn't realise that BEFORE asking the community?

Perhaps they did but if the survey came back with an overwhelming majority favoring restriction they would rethink it.  As it was 54% to 44% for against is not exactly overwhelming enough for them not to go in the direction they think is right.

  Satyros

Novice Member

Joined: 8/13/13
Posts: 38

9/27/13 1:16:53 PM#67
Originally posted by Razeekster
Why am I unable to get myself excited for this game? It seems to be the the huge sandbox game that I and lots of other people have been wanting. Just something about it I guess... I'm more excited for the Repopulation.

 

Exactly.. And I really hope I'm wrong about this.

It's in the details. Like a wannabe sandbox,  aka  "player driven",  game having a dev team that did not listen to a clear demand from the future players. Or the game being completely f2p. 

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 985

9/27/13 2:15:51 PM#68
Originally posted by ghorgos
Originally posted by rygard49

However my inner child with the boundless imagination is thinking of all the great origin stories that can be created to explain exactly why an Ogre Warrior became devoted to Mithaniel Marr and somehow convinced the order to ordain him as a Paladin of Good, or how an Wood Elven Monk fell to Necromancy after the loss of his dearest friend.

Your examples are a good reason against restrictions and i realy like to see such ways being possible. MMy own concers are thoose combinations that are less alignment based but more about actual abilities. Its absurd to think a gnome could become a great warrior. There is no question that it might be possible for a gnome to become a warrior but its physically impossible for him to become a great one. Similar for races like Ogres, Trolls, Barbarians and higher magic. It could be resolved without restrictions but heavy penalties for the classes but my interpretation of soe ist that they don't even wan't thoose penalties and thats a problem for me.

 

A quick comment to the possibility of special cases. Well there is always the chance for a mutation or devine favour that enhances the ability of a speciman but that would apply to all races. It can't be used to justify a Wizard Ogre if you deny the magic-boost for races like elves.

Totally agree with you on the physical/spiritual capabilities being a logical limiting factor. An Ogre pickpocket makes no logical sense, since stealth and finesse are beyond the typical Ogre. In fact, my first attempt at a response to this thread was going to be about how limitations definitely need to exist for that reason.

But when it comes to physical limitations and capabilities, I think instead of locking out a class from a race, you should instead lock out abilities from certain races/class combos. As an example, I reject that an Ogre would ever be able to pickpocket someone. Let them take the rogue class and learn how to backstab, but lock out their ability to pickpocket.

Likewise, Gnome warriors should never be able to knock something over with brute force. Let them wear tiny plate, and wield tiny weapons and shields, but strength related skills should be limited or locked out depending on the proposed effect.

  ropenice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/02/04
Posts: 584

9/27/13 2:35:10 PM#69
Originally posted by pmcubed

I was surprised by the poll results.  In a game that bases it's longevity on the release of new classes, a race/class restriction would suck.

Realistically, even with a fantastic art/dev/sprite team, you can't hope to release more than say, 1 new class every 2-4 weeks. (see LOL/Dota hero release calendar's)

People will eat through the content faster than it can be produced.  Having race restrictions will mean my Rat-guy will miss the next release of "proposed class x"

Maybe I don't feel like rolling an alt solely for the purpose of trying out the newly released class. No thanks to that.

After 40 classes, how many classes can they come up with that aren't watered down or duplicates. I guess with a limited amount of abilities they can spread them out. They could've still let all races be any class, but given certain races bonuses/penalties for certain classes to still give each race it's own feel beyond cosmetic. Maybe they will do that, as we don't know how races are to be done yet.

  Dihoru

Elite Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 2683

9/27/13 3:44:43 PM#70

The only thing I got from this thread is some people want race restrictions, some don't but want some significance to the race itself and a few who just need to go to drug store and get some of this:

I mean seriously guys and girls this is a game, a MMO ostensibly but a game none the less so why in the 7 Hells would anyone here really care that it's a different MMO than those set in the same Universe? It's a game, if it is good it will be played, if I like it I will play it, if it isn't a good game it will sink, regardless of my own tastes, that's all that matters in the end: a good game, not lore, not dogmatic views on classes, nothing, good or bad game is the end of the equation and that's objective and cannot be even a little bit discerned this early. Good day gents, I am out of this thread as it will likely drag on for a while longer for those unable to understand that they do not matter in the equation ( like I don't either).

  Tarnorili

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/07/13
Posts: 35

9/27/13 5:33:46 PM#71

So much for a 'life of consequence', and 'your actions will be meaningful'. Clearly the knock on effect of this means that those two statements they've loved to used are completely, and ironically, meaningless.

This is extremely disappointing to hear. But what is immediately more disappointing are the reasons they developers gave in the interview. For all their talk and hype generated, when it comes to the facts, once again it seems, step by step, they're revealing that EQN next will be another MMO where basically you get to play 'god' with your character. As a long time fan of EQ this is hugely disappointing to hear.

Once again; just another development team that are frightened into giving the childish/impatient player everything they wanted for fear of whining. Very disappointing.

  Yilelien

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/04/10
Posts: 319

9/27/13 6:07:08 PM#72

As a ex EQ & EQ2 player. The part of the EQ experience was the class definition. That knowing that everyone had a role to play and had to do so was very important. To this day my friends TAHT i played the game with all still talk about our roles.

 

 Move along 10 years. Tell us a new EQ is coming out. Then be suprised that people are upset that they are removing (to me), one of the most important parts of the game....

  Latronus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/08
Posts: 718

PC is not political correctness, it means Political Cowardice!

9/27/13 6:17:05 PM#73
Originally posted by Tarnorili

So much for a 'life of consequence', and 'your actions will be meaningful'. Clearly the knock on effect of this means that those two statements they've loved to used are completely, and ironically, meaningless.

This is extremely disappointing to hear. But what is immediately more disappointing are the reasons they developers gave in the interview. For all their talk and hype generated, when it comes to the facts, once again it seems, step by step, they're revealing that EQN next will be another MMO where basically you get to play 'god' with your character. As a long time fan of EQ this is hugely disappointing to hear.

Once again; just another development team that are frightened into giving the childish/impatient player everything they wanted for fear of whining. Very disappointing.

Normally I would I agree totally with what you have said, but since this is supposed to a sandbox type of game, please tell me how you can have a game without boundaries if they are imposed by things such as class restrictions?  IF they were making a themempark then absolutely there better be race/class restrictions, but they have they aren't.  Besides, why can't a Dark Elf be a Pally or other good class.  I guess all Dark Elves MUST be evil.  There are no absolutes in life so why should there be in a game? 

  Yizle

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/24/10
Posts: 528

9/27/13 7:29:09 PM#74
Dwarf mages and Troll Monks yay...
  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1131

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

9/27/13 9:15:24 PM#75

Yes of course! 

 

The mediocrity of having no restrictions has worked so well in the past!  Or let's be honest...this is another lazy attempt to appease the masses, while pissing off the truly dedicated player base that would have been here.  Because you see, Sony EQN, the masses tend to move on rather quickly for the new whizz bang game of the month.

 

This brilliant style of development is exactly what Elder Scrolls Online is doing - oh wait - no they aren't.  You see, they have read a few fantasy novels, not just looked at market projections and hired developers who have nothing outside of programming experience.  See, they know that race and class means a lot in the sense of the uniqueness that a player might feel. 

Do not fear variation, folks.  Who the hell wants all vegetables to be red, and all meat to taste like chicken?

  Comaf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/13/10
Posts: 1131

I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters.

9/27/13 9:16:13 PM#76
Originally posted by Tarnorili

So much for a 'life of consequence', and 'your actions will be meaningful'. Clearly the knock on effect of this means that those two statements they've loved to used are completely, and ironically, meaningless.

This is extremely disappointing to hear. But what is immediately more disappointing are the reasons they developers gave in the interview. For all their talk and hype generated, when it comes to the facts, once again it seems, step by step, they're revealing that EQN next will be another MMO where basically you get to play 'god' with your character. As a long time fan of EQ this is hugely disappointing to hear.

Once again; just another development team that are frightened into giving the childish/impatient player everything they wanted for fear of whining. Very disappointing.

 

signed

  Arglebargle

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1053

9/27/13 9:46:56 PM#77

Ogres can't use magic!   -  Ogre Magi?   -  That's different!

 

Dwarves can't do magic -  Norse Dwarves use magic  -  That's Different!

 

Trolls can't.....   - Grendel from Beowulf was considered a troll, you know....  That's Diffeerent!

 

etc.

 

Lots of rigid definition going on here.  I think Lanesser has nailed it down in various posts, but the responses just shout, That's Differeent! 

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  Thupli

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 398

9/27/13 10:31:57 PM#78

Race specific classes?  No thanks.

Racial traits that add to gameplay and will make min makers think?  Yes please.  

Give me scaling small percent increases to give the race choice some meaning.

Elves, 3% dodge

Dwarves, 3% less physical damage taken

Humans, 3% resist all

 

etcetera and so forth, plus add in racial weapon bonuses and unique racial actives and I think that would be more than enough to make up for race class lock outs not being in.

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5155

9/28/13 3:31:02 AM#79

I can't understand why posters are going on about the rights and wrongs of class restrictions. This is about making sure EQNext is easyMMOde. It is not about lore or anything else.

The round table is simply a hype exercise so they can say to sites like MMORPG.com "Hey look we got 6000 posts on one issue". They just ignore what the posters on the roundtable say when it does not fit a easyMMO WoW template.

We heard a load of PR from the conventions about how different this MMO was going to be...right.

Prediction: Not one roundtable thread is every going to result in them choosing a path that is not WoW template easyMMOde. This MMO has already shown its true colours they are not going to deviate from that course. 

  ghorgos

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/23/10
Posts: 128

9/28/13 6:24:07 AM#80
Originally posted by Latronus
Normally I would I agree totally with what you have said, but since this is supposed to a sandbox type of game, please tell me how you can have a game without boundaries if they are imposed by things such as class restrictions?  IF they were making a themempark then absolutely there better be race/class restrictions, but they have they aren't.  Besides, why can't a Dark Elf be a Pally or other good class.  I guess all Dark Elves MUST be evil.  There are no absolutes in life so why should there be in a game? 

First sandbox doesn't mean there are no restrictions. As commented earlier go to a real life sandbox and  you will see that your options are limited and the same goes for a virtual one. In addition you might rethink your example for restriction. I know that this is commonly used but its not a racial restriction but a restriction by alignment. I agree with you that thoose restrictions need to go away(but certain races should have to work on being able to change alignment). On the other hand its totally different for physical or mental abilities. Its impossible for a gnome to achieve physical strength and endurance comparable to an ogre(in other words becoming a great warrior). Similar for typical Ogre or Troll and the mage class.

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